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Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 867
Registered: 10-2013
Posted on Wednesday, November 13, 2013 - 12:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

In my work, 12783 can represent more, less and as much as 12783 - at the same time. How come?
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Post Number: 284
Registered: 9-2013
Posted on Wednesday, November 13, 2013 - 2:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Your profile says that you're a lawyer. Is this true, for the sake of the puzzle? Would this be the work referred to in the puzzle statement?

Does the second 12783 refer to the actual numerical quantity twelve thousand seven hundred and eighty-three? Could the puzzle statement read:

"In my work, the five sequential digits '12783' can represent more, less and as much as the amount twelve thousand seven hundred and eighty-three- at the same time. How come?"
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 871
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Posted on Wednesday, November 13, 2013 - 2:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Alexanderhamilton:
Your profile says that you're a lawyer. Correct. Is this true, for the sake of the puzzle? Yes. Would this be the work referred to in the puzzle statement? Yes. I work in a notary office and prepare draft contracts.

Does the second 12783 refer to the actual numerical quantity twelve thousand seven hundred and eighty-three? Yes. Could the puzzle statement read:

"In my work, the five sequential digits '12783' can represent more, less and as much as the amount twelve thousand seven hundred and eighty-three- at the same time. How come?" Yes.
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Post Number: 286
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Posted on Wednesday, November 13, 2013 - 4:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So when you say "more, less, and as much," would that mean that 12783 could mean a numerical value greater, less, or equal to 12783?

Would this puzzle work with other five digit numbers? Or is 12783 unique in some regard?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 876
Registered: 10-2013
Posted on Wednesday, November 13, 2013 - 5:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Alexanderhamilton:
So when you say "more, less, and as much," would that mean that 12783 could mean a numerical value greater, less, or equal to 12783? Not quite, explore. Both "12783"s in the puzzle sentence are numerical values and no wordplay or play on numbers is involved. And the puzzle is based on real life situations. It's hard to clarify it without giving away the idea of the puzzle.

Would this puzzle work with other five digit numbers? Yes, any. It may also happen on four digit and three digit numbers. I haven't seen it on less than three or more than five digit numbers - but it's also theoretically possible. Or is 12783 unique in some regard? Not at all.
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Post Number: 1018
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Posted on Wednesday, November 13, 2013 - 10:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the figure represent a quantity of something? A price? A classification? Is the number used in drawing up contracts? Consideration relevant?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 892
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Posted on Thursday, November 14, 2013 - 8:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wizardofnz:
Does the figure represent a quantity of something? Yes. A price? Yope, and prices are extremely relevant. A classification? No. Is the number used in drawing up contracts? Not "the number", but OTRT. Consideration relevant? No.
Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
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Post Number: 582
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Posted on Thursday, November 14, 2013 - 1:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Currency exchange rates relevant?
Different currencies? Euros, pounds, dollars, zlotys?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 912
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Posted on Thursday, November 14, 2013 - 2:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yojimbo:
Currency exchange rates relevant? No.
Different currencies? No. Euros, pounds, dollars, zlotys We use this one, but the puzzle could work for any currency.?
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Post Number: 290
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Posted on Thursday, November 14, 2013 - 3:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are there three separate situations we're looking for here, i.e. the more, the less, the as much? Or is there one sort of overarching general concept we should be looking for?

Would this puzzle only work if you worked as a lawyer? Could a businessman say the same? Does this puzzle primarily deal with the use of '12783' on contracts?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 923
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Posted on Thursday, November 14, 2013 - 5:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Alexanderhamilton:
Are there three separate situations we're looking for here, i.e. the more, the less, the as much? Or is there one sort of overarching general concept we should be looking for? A bit of both.

Would this puzzle only work if you worked as a lawyer? It is based on a particular trait in the work of notary offices. It's possible that other professions share this trait, but I have never heard about any. Could a businessman say the same? Does this puzzle primarily deal with the use of '12783' on contracts? No.

CLARIFICATION: It seems I made the puzzle sentence too vague. I based this puzzle on the situation which happens in my office, especially in particular time of the year. We often compare two numbers. But, even if the numbers are the same or very similar ("as much" in the puzzle sentence), the quantities they represent may be very different, bigger ("more") and smaller ("less"). Hope this helps and sorry for initial confusion.
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Post Number: 556
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Posted on Thursday, November 14, 2013 - 11:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do the numbers have specific units (eg a number of dollars, people, hours, pages, bananas etc)?

If so, do the two numbers both use the same units?

Do either of the numbers use any of the SI unit multipliers (eg m, k, M, G etc)?

Are the numbers reference numbers? of documents?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 944
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Posted on Friday, November 15, 2013 - 8:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Psydkik:
Do the numbers have specific units (eg a number of dollars, people, hours, pages, bananas etc)? Hard to say... The number is always written with no unit indicated. The number itself indicates the quantity of something and in that meaning it has the unit.

If so, do the two numbers both use the same units? Yes.

Do either of the numbers use any of the SI unit multipliers (eg m, k, M, G etc)? No.

Are the numbers reference numbers? Yes. of documents? Yes...
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Post Number: 565
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Posted on Friday, November 15, 2013 - 12:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So "12783" would mean "document with reference number 12783"?
Although that doesn't quite sound like a quantity of something... hmm...

Could the two identical numbers refer to different versions of the same document? Such that one document is longer/larger/contains-bigger-values than the other version?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Friday, November 15, 2013 - 1:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Psydkik:
So "12783" would mean "document with reference number 12783"? Yes, something like that, and also the quantity...
Although that doesn't quite sound like a quantity of something... hmm... Try to regard this from the point of view of someone who issues documents.

Could the two identical numbers refer to different versions of the same document? No. Such that one document is longer/larger/contains-bigger-values than the other version? No.
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Post Number: 567
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Posted on Friday, November 15, 2013 - 2:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the document reference number assigned as an arbitrary number (like starting from 00001, 00002, 00003 etc) and is therefore just a number and nothing more?

Or is the document reference number based on some other information (like 12783 means Month 12, 78 people, 3rd issue) and therefore has a sort of half-hidden meaning to it?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 965
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Posted on Friday, November 15, 2013 - 2:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Psydkik:
Is the document reference number assigned as an arbitrary number (like starting from 00001, 00002, 00003 etc) and is therefore just a number and nothing more? If I understand correctly what you mean, then yes.

Or is the document reference number based on some other information (like 12783 means Month 12, 78 people, 3rd issue) and therefore has a sort of half-hidden meaning to it? No.
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Posted on Friday, November 15, 2013 - 2:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If the documents were given a name instead of a number - so that instead of reference number 12783, it was called "Special Report" - would the following be a correct rephrase of your opening statement?

"In my work, 'Special Report' can represent more, less and as much as 'Special Report' - at the same time. How come?"
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 970
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Posted on Friday, November 15, 2013 - 2:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Psydkik:
If the documents were given a name instead of a number - so that instead of reference number 12783, it was called "Special Report" - would the following be a correct rephrase of your opening statement? No. The numbers and what they represent is relevant. Plus, the numbers in the puzzle sentence refer to the quantity, not a single document (Although they do appear on one of the documents).

"In my work, 'Special Report' can represent more, less and as much as 'Special Report' - at the same time. How come?"
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Monday, November 18, 2013 - 10:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

HINTS: In my work, we issue documents. We're required to register all documents we issue. The situation I refer to in the puzzle sentence is most likely to be commented on in December.
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Monday, November 18, 2013 - 4:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm totally lost here, but is the December comment likely because 12783 looks like a date in December?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Monday, November 18, 2013 - 6:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Lynne:
I'm totally lost here, but is the December comment likely because 12783 looks like a date in December? No, sorry.
Kayleearafinwiel (Kayleearafinwiel)
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Post Number: 137
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Posted on Tuesday, November 19, 2013 - 8:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It also looks like a date in January, (or a date in July if you use the British system =) lol)
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 19, 2013 - 9:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Christmas relevant? The changing of the calendar year?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 19, 2013 - 10:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Kaylee:
It also looks like a date in January, (or a date in July if you use the British system =) lol) It's not a date.

Wizardofnz:
Is Christmas relevant? No. The changing of the calendar year? Yes.
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 20, 2013 - 12:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The document numbering still confuses me :-S

The number 12783 is a document reference number?
But it does not just refer to document number twelve thousand, seven hundred and eighty-three?
Because it also refers to twelve thousand, seven hundred and eighty-three 'somethings'?
Or it also refers to twelve thousand, seven hundred and eighty-three units of 'stuff'?

Can you get ever the same document reference number for two different documents? Or does 12783 always only refer to one specific document?

Do you get the reference number first, and then measure the quantity to match? Or do you have the quantity first and design the document number to match?

Or should I not be taking the number as a whole? Is the number made up of, for example, Twelve, Seven and Eighty-three, which refer to three different things, one or more of which is a quantity of something? (like 12, 7, 83 -> Query Type 12, Subtype 7, Quantity of money involved 83'000?)
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 20, 2013 - 2:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Psydkik:
The document numbering still confuses me :-S I'll do my best to clear it up, see below.

The number 12783 is a document reference number? Yes.
But it does not just refer to document number twelve thousand, seven hundred and eighty-three? It does, but it indicates also something else.
Because it also refers to twelve thousand, seven hundred and eighty-three 'somethings'? Yes.
Or it also refers to twelve thousand, seven hundred and eighty-three units of 'stuff'? Depends on naming convention.

Can you get ever the same document reference number for two different documents? No. Or does 12783 always only refer to one specific document? Yes.

Do you get the reference number first, and then measure the quantity to match? Or do you have the quantity first and design the document number to match? It's the same, see below.

Or should I not be taking the number as a whole? No, OTWT. Is the number made up of, for example, Twelve, Seven and Eighty-three, which refer to three different things, one or more of which is a quantity of something? (like 12, 7, 83 -> Query Type 12, Subtype 7, Quantity of money involved 83'000?) No.

I see this is really confusing, so I'll clear this bit up. The number 12783 is a hypothetical number of the last very last document issued by us in a calendar year.
Our job is to issue documents - contracts, wills etc. Each document we issue must be numbered and registered under its number. Each year we start with 1 and everything we do gets next number.
So, the 12783 from the puzzle statement is a hypothaetical number of our "activities" in a year and also the number of the last "activity".
We use it to compare our overall activity in a year to other years and to yearly record of other offices like ours.
Hope it's clear now.
Alexanderhamilton (Alexanderhamilton)
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Posted on Monday, November 25, 2013 - 2:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is December the most likely setting because of something you have to do at the end of each year? Some sort of accounting or inventory relevant?

You say that you've never seen this puzzle work for less than four digits. Is that because it only works toward the end of the year? Or perhaps because the number of "somethings" wouldn't work with lower numbers?

In this puzzle, could document 12783 be a contract or a will? Could it only be a contract? Only a will?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Monday, November 25, 2013 - 3:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Alexanderhamilton:
Is December the most likely setting because of something you have to do at the end of each year? Yes. Some sort of accounting or inventory relevant? Yes, yearly statistics.

You say that you've never seen this puzzle work for less than four digits. Is that because it only works toward the end of the year? No, it works for any digits. Or perhaps because the number of "somethings" wouldn't work with lower numbers? No. Just practically most of the offices achieve four - digit yearly record.

In this puzzle, could document 12783 be a contract or a will? Any of these and also any of other type of documents we issue. Could it only be a contract? Only a will?
Psydkik (Psydkik)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 27, 2013 - 12:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If the final document of the year was numbered 12783, would that always mean there had been 12782 earlier documents created that year?

Are you comparing document 12783 from one year with document 12783 from another year, in order to get the differences mentioned in the puzzle statement?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 27, 2013 - 8:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Psydkik:
If the final document of the year was numbered 12783, would that always mean there had been 12782 earlier documents created that year? YES AND NO, excellent question. That is precisely what the puzzle is about.

Are you comparing document 12783 from one year with document 12783 from another year, in order to get the differences mentioned in the puzzle statement? Not "document 12783", but the number of documents, the rest is correct.
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 27, 2013 - 7:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is every new document given a number that is one higher than the previous document? Are documents' numbers changed after amendments? Is there any arbitrary numbering going on? Do particularly large documents or documents concerning particularly expensive or weighty cases incur a greater increase in numbers than other cases?

Prices are relevant - Does the amount of money given away in a will or the amount of money agreed to in a contract incur a greater increase in number?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 27, 2013 - 8:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wizardofnz:
Is every new document given a number that is one higher than the previous document? Yesish. Are documents' numbers changed after amendments? No. Is there any arbitrary numbering going on? No. Do particularly large documents or documents concerning particularly expensive or weighty cases incur a greater increase in numbers than other cases? Sometimes they do, but it's not a consequence of their volume or cost. Very good question.

Prices are relevant - Does the amount of money given away in a will or the amount of money agreed to in a contract incur a greater increase in number? Increase of numbers is not dependent on money. But yes, sales contract usually causes greater increase in number than will.
Wizardofnz (Wizardofnz)
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Posted on Monday, December 02, 2013 - 8:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the answer have to do with billing - how your firm charges for sales contracts and wills? Is the discrepancy in numbers related to the systematic way you work out how to charge for things?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Tuesday, December 03, 2013 - 8:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wizardofnz:
Does the answer have to do with billing - how your firm charges for sales contracts and wills? Yes, our fees are an element of the puzzle, but no specifics are needed. Is the discrepancy in numbers related to the systematic way you work out how to charge for things? Yope, explore.
Wecl0me12 (Wecl0me12)
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Posted on Thursday, December 05, 2013 - 4:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

recap please?
also, does the first "12783" and the second "12783" in your puzzle statement refer to the same document?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Thursday, December 05, 2013 - 12:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wecl0me12:

Welcome to the forum!

recap please?

In hypothaetical situation in my work, while doing yearly statistics we find out that the last document issued by us in that year had the number 12783. Then we try to compare this record to our record from any previous year or to yearly record of other office like ours. Even if in both years last document had the number 12783, it can represent equal, more and less in the same time.
Other important facts:
- this works for any two equal figures,
- the fact that the last document is numbered 12783 INDICATES and also DOES NOT INDICATE that there were 12782 earlier documents in that year (that's in fact clue of the puzzle);
- some documents take more numbers than other ones, but it's not a consequence of their volume or cost;
- Increase of numbers is not dependent on money;
- Fees is a factor in the puzzle.

Plus, free HINT: think why people are doing yearly statistics.

Hope that helps.



also, does the first "12783" and the second "12783" in your puzzle statement refer to the same document? No, each document is required to have unique number.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, December 05, 2013 - 2:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wecl0me, I seem to recognize your name - were you one of the users lost in the Lateral Reaping/LTPF WTF?

Does each document contain the same amount of information?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Thursday, December 05, 2013 - 3:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin:
Does each document contain the same amount of information? No.
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Thursday, December 12, 2013 - 9:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant that there may be multiple documents relating to one case? That one document may reference others? That some documents may be begun before the end of the year but continued to be worked on over the new year, so they feature in both years?

Is there an upper or lower limit to how many documents could have been done that year, if the final document is numbered 12783? Could you have done only 100 documents in the year, and the last one still be number 12783? Could you have done 15000?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Thursday, December 12, 2013 - 12:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Enjay:
Is it relevant that there may be multiple documents relating to one case? No. That one document may reference others? It may, but irrelevant. That some documents may be begun before the end of the year but continued to be worked on over the new year, so they feature in both years? No, that's impossible. Document gets numbered in the moment when the original is signed by Parties and Notary and is registered only in that one year's records.

Is there an upper or lower limit to how many documents could have been done that year, if the final document is numbered 12783? No, no limit.
Could you have done only 100 documents in the year, and the last one still be number 12783? That is theoretically possible but very improbable.
Could you have done 15000? No, that's impossible.

The last two questions are very much OTRT.
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Thursday, December 12, 2013 - 11:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Could you have done more than 12,783 documents if the final document is number 12783? If so, would that be incredibly unlikely, or is it somewhat plausible to work on that many documents?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Friday, December 13, 2013 - 8:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Gregoryuconn:
Could you have done more than 12,783 documents if the final document is number 12783? No. If so, would that be incredibly unlikely, or is it somewhat plausible to work on that many documents? So no.
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Friday, December 13, 2013 - 11:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I thought you said there was no upper or lower limit.

If you had done only one document that year, making it both the first and last, could it be number 12783?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 1323
Registered: 10-2013
Posted on Friday, December 13, 2013 - 11:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Gregoryuconn:
I thought you said there was no upper or lower limit. There is in fact no limit: the final number 12783 does not mean that there can be no less than X and no more than Y documents issued. I probably answered under my too narrow understanding of the question, my bad.

CLARIFICATION: The total amount of documents issued in a year cannot be bigger than the number of the last document.


If you had done only one document that year, making it both the first and last, could it be number 12783? The original of the document is then numbered 1. Theoretically it's possible to get the total amount of 12783 on only 1 document issued, but it's very, very much improbable.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Thursday, January 02, 2014 - 9:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

UPDATE: We issued the last 2013 document under the number 9581.
Wecl0me12 (Wecl0me12)
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Posted on Saturday, January 04, 2014 - 1:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

relevant how many numbers a document takes up?
if so, is it because of the topic? whoever requested it?

If I worked at this company, and I was shown a document, would I be able to determine how many numbers it took up?
Emeraldink (Emeraldink)
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Posted on Sunday, January 05, 2014 - 7:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do some documents get canceled?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Tuesday, January 07, 2014 - 9:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wecl0me12:
relevant how many numbers a document takes up? Different types of documents take different amount of numbers, this is relevant.
if so, is it because of the topic? Yesish. whoever requested it? Sometimes this too.

If I worked at this company, and I was shown a document, would I be able to determine how many numbers it took up? Yes, at least you would be able to determine how many numbers they usually take.

Emeraldink:
Do some documents get canceled? No. But, for example, if someone has his will written by us, and then decides to cancel it, we write another will for him, cancelling his previous will. But both wills stay in our registry, each one under separate number.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Tuesday, March 11, 2014 - 12:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the yearly statistics done to determine a fee? Or to check that a fee is correct? Is a specific number of different document types relevant? If so: 2? 3? 5 or less? More than 10?
You say 12783 can be same, more and less than 12783. Are the two instances "12783" the same? If not: are they both document numbers? Are they from different years? Is one related to the fee?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Tuesday, March 11, 2014 - 1:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk:
Are the yearly statistics done to determine a fee? Or to check that a fee is correct?
No, they're done mainly for tax purposes and also for our supervising board.
Is a specific number of different document types relevant? No. If so: 2? 3? 5 or less? More than 10?

You say 12783 can be same, more and less than 12783. Yes. Are the two instances "12783" the same? Yes, if I understand your question right.
If not: are they both document numbers? Yes, they're both document numbers. Are they from different years? Yes.
Is one related to the fee? No, none of them is related to the fee, but incomes are relevant.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Tuesday, March 11, 2014 - 1:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Can 12783 from one year represent more or less earnings for your company than 12783 from another year?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Tuesday, March 11, 2014 - 2:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk:
Can 12783 from one year represent more or less earnings for your company than 12783 from another year? YES!!! Half of the puzzle is solved!
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Tuesday, March 11, 2014 - 2:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

12783 representing exactly as much as 12783: the "12783" from one year can represent the same number of documents ad "12783" from another year?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Tuesday, March 11, 2014 - 3:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk:
12783 representing exactly as much as 12783: the "12783" from one year can represent the same number of documents ad "12783" from another year? Yes it can, but it is very unlikely to happen.

In fact, you're overcomplicating the "as much" part, it's been almost worked out long ago.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Tuesday, March 11, 2014 - 3:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Can the document 12783 cost the client exactly 12783 zloty to prepare?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Tuesday, March 11, 2014 - 3:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk:
Can the document 12783 cost the client exactly 12783 zloty to prepare? Yes it can, but it would be a random coincidence.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Tuesday, March 11, 2014 - 4:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the cost/fee of preparing the document relevant? Is the number 12783 ever a monetary figure?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Tuesday, March 11, 2014 - 5:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk:
Is the cost/fee of preparing the document relevant? Not any more. Is the number 12783 ever a monetary figure? No.
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Wednesday, March 12, 2014 - 9:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the puzzle about that the total number of documents registered in a year may tell about the work you've done but does not yet tell much about your income? If there were two different years in each of which you finished 12783 documents, the income in both years still can be much different? depending on which kind of documents you worked on?
like, for instance, real estate transactions, where the fee depends on the value of the piece of land handed over? thus, with increasing real estate prices you will earn each year more for the same number of contracts?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Wednesday, March 12, 2014 - 11:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sundowner:
Is the puzzle about that the total number of documents registered in a year may tell about the work you've done but does not yet tell much about your income?
Well, that's part of it. The other part is that the same number of final documents in two years does not indicate also how much work we've done.
If there were two different years in each of which you finished 12783 documents, the income in both years still can be much different? Yes, that's absolutely true. depending on which kind of documents you worked on? Yes.
like, for instance, real estate transactions, where the fee depends on the value of the piece of land handed over? Yes indeed. thus, with increasing real estate prices you will earn each year more for the same number of contracts? Absolutely correct.

The part that is left to find out is:
How the system works that even if we issue last documents under the same number in two years, the amount of our work in these two years is different.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Thursday, March 13, 2014 - 8:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the amount of work on each document very variable? Are there documents included in the series that require little or no work? That require a much greater than ordinary amount of work?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Thursday, March 13, 2014 - 1:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk:
Is the amount of work on each document very variable? Yes. Are there documents included in the series that require little or no work? Yes. That require a much greater than ordinary amount of work? Yes.
All above are true, but not relevant to this puzzle.

RECAP :
In my workplace, we often compare the registry numbers of documents issued by us in two subsequent years, to see if we're doing better than last year or not.
We already know that similarly high registry numbers in compared periods of time do not indicate similar income for the company, because our fees depend on values of transactions.
We know also that similarly high registry numbers in compared periods of time do not indicate similar amount of work for us.
We know that:
- 12783 in the puzzle sentence refer to numerical value and is the hypothetical last registry number given by us to the last document in the compared year.
- the fact that the last document is numbered 12783 INDICATES and also DOES NOT INDICATE that there were 12782 earlier documents in that year (that's in fact clue of the puzzle);
- some documents take more numbers than other ones, but it's not a consequence of their volume or cost;
- Increase of numbers is not dependent on money.
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Friday, March 14, 2014 - 9:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Could it happen that numbers get used "by mistake"?
Like: someone makes an appointment to sign a document, you assign a number, but the man never turns up, you have to discard the number and to use the next one for the next case .. ?
or could it be that numbers have to be discarded because of errors in a document? the corrected document has to be issued under a new number?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Friday, March 14, 2014 - 8:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sundowner:
Could it happen that numbers get used "by mistake"? Yes, it happens, but very rarely.
Like: someone makes an appointment to sign a document, you assign a number, but the man never turns up, you have to discard the number and to use the next one for the next case .. ? Not really. We assign the number when parties are present and about to sign the contract. Omitted numbers happen when we lose track with the numbers.
or could it be that numbers have to be discarded because of errors in a document No, in that case we make the correction under new number. the corrected document has to be issued under a new number? Yope. The protocol of correction is made under new number BUT the corrected initial document is still made under its original number, with the note that it's been corrected according to the protocol numbered XYZ.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2014 - 2:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So 12783 of one year can at the same time both indicate and not-indicate 12782 previous documents of the same year? Of different years? can a document higher than 12783 in fact be an earlier document than 12783 itself?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2014 - 2:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk:
So 12783 of one year can at the same time both indicate and not-indicate 12782 previous documents of the same year? Yes. Of different years? No. can a document higher than 12783 in fact be an earlier document than 12783 itself? No. The regulation concerning numbers is a very strict one. Numbers must go in chronological order.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Username: Redwine

Post Number: 1918
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Posted on Friday, March 21, 2014 - 3:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

HINTS:
We have to assign numbers to everything we do in our professional capacity.
Usually, single sales contract takes 6 numbers.
We also authenticate people's signatures on documents provided by them. We also make legal copies of documents which people bring to us.
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Post Number: 1358
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Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2014 - 9:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the number of parties involved in a contract relevant? The more parties involved, the more numbers you need (potentially) for it? Because some parties might turn up later and you have to record their signature separately? or parties sent a letter of consent, rather than turning up at your office in person? basically, the more parties involved, the more likely it is that you have to register additional documents, actions, .. for the same contract, but under additional numbers? but the work for setting up the contract (and the fee) is still the same?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2014 - 10:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sundowner:
Is the number of parties involved in a contract relevant? Yes. The more parties involved, the more numbers you need (potentially) for it? Yes. Because some parties might turn up later and you have to record their signature separately? No. or parties sent a letter of consent, rather than turning up at your office in person? No. basically, the more parties involved, the more likely it is that you have to register additional documents, actions, .. for the same contract, but under additional numbers? No. but the work for setting up the contract (and the fee) is still the same? Yes.

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