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Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Friday, January 14, 2005 - 8:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

There is a room, and near the door
Two people lying on the floor...
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Friday, January 14, 2005 - 8:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry for the formatting - it should look like this:


There is a room, and near the door
Two people lying on the floor...
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Friday, January 14, 2005 - 10:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are these people dead?
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Friday, January 14, 2005 - 10:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are these people dead? Yes, I am very much afraid so
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Friday, January 14, 2005 - 11:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there anything relevant inside the room now?
Before?

Anything relevant outsdie the room?

Are the two related? Relevant?
Shawn Franchi (Doctapeppa)
Posted on Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 1:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Explosion of propane tank leading to massive avalanche relevant?
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 9:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there anything relevant inside the room now? yes, very much
Before? noish - nothing relevant disappeared from the room, if you mean this

Anything relevant outsdie the room? no

Are the two related?yesish Relevant? yes

Explosion of propane tank leading to massive avalanche relevant? no, but interesting idea
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 10:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the type of room relevant?
Were the deaths murders / accidental / suicide? Relevant?
Are the couple, lovers?
Was the mode of death unusual?
Did the two die of the same cause?
At about the same time?
Is the door locked?
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 2:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the type of room relevant? yes
Were the deaths murders no (perhaps with the slightest of -ishes)/ accidental yesish/ suicide? no Relevant? crucial
Are the couple, do you mean "couple" just as "the pair of them"? otherwise FA lovers no?
Was the mode of death unusual? yesish
Did the two die of the same cause? yesish
At about the same time? no
Is the door locked? no. Good question!
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 3:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are there other people in the room?
Is the room on a ship?
An aeroplane?
Another mode of transport / vehicle?
Were the deaths caused by negligence?
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 3:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are there other people in the room? yes. Another good question!
Is the room on a ship? no
An aeroplane? no
Another mode of transport no/ vehicle? no
Were the deaths caused by negligence?noish
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 4:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this part of a game?
Is the room in a building?
Is the door open?
Any other doors? Relevant?
Any windows?
Is it an elevator?


The dead people:
Ages / gender relevant?

The other people:
More than 4?
Ages / genders relevant?
Have they been harmed in any way at all?

How do they feel about the deaths:
Pleased?
Sad?
Shocked?
Indifferent?
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 4:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this part of a game? no - and again a very slight -ish
Is the room in a building? yes
Is the door open? irrelevant
Any other doors? probablyRelevant? no
Any windows? most probably, but irrelevant
Is it an elevator? no, but the idea is interesting


The dead people:
Ages / gender relevant? Both yes for the first one, both yesish for the second one

The other people:
More than 4? no
Ages / genders relevant? yes to both
Have they been harmed in any way at all? yes

How do they feel FA about the deaths:
Pleased?
Sad?
Shocked?
Indifferent?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 4:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the dead pairdead literally dead?
Are there other dead people in the room?

How long have the dead pair been dead:
moments?
same day?
longer?
years?

Dead Person 1:
male?
older than 5 / 10 / 20 / 50?

Dead Person 2:
male?
older than 5 / 10 / 20 / 50?

Person 3:
Alive?
Injured?
Unconscious?
male?
older than 5 / 10 / 20 / 50?

Person 4:
Exist?
Alive?
Injured?
Unconscious?
male?
older than 5 / 10 / 20 / 50?

Person 5:
Exist?
Alive?
Injured?
Unconscious?
male?
older than 5 / 10 / 20 / 50?

Person 6:
Exist?
Alive?
Injured?
Unconscious?
male?
older than 5 / 10 / 20 / 50?

The room:
Bedroom?
Bathroom?
Toilet?
Kitchen?
Hallway?
Lounge?
Living Room?
Study?
Landing?
Ballroom?
Dining Room?
Billiard Room?
Library?
Attic?
Cellar?
Bunker?
Hotel room?

The type of building in which the room is located relevant?
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 6:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the dead pairdead literally dead? As a doornail
Are there other dead people in the room? Yes. Excellent question.

How long have the dead pair been dead:
moments?
same day? most probably this, let us say minutes
longer?
years?

Dead Person 1:
male? no, female
older than 5 / 10 / 20 / 50? this, let us say somewhere between 50 and 70

Dead Person 2:
male? no, female
older than 5 / 10 / 20 / 50? as above

Person 3:
Alive? no
Injured?
Unconscious?
male? yes
older than 5 / 10 / 20 / 50? as above

Person 4:
Exist? no. There is no other relevant person except the three mentioned above
Alive?
Injured?
Unconscious?
male?
older than 5 / 10 / 20 / 50?

Person 5:
Exist?
Alive?
Injured?
Unconscious?
male?
older than 5 / 10 / 20 / 50?

Person 6:
Exist?
Alive?
Injured?
Unconscious?
male?
older than 5 / 10 / 20 / 50?

The room:
Bedroom? possibly
Bathroom?
Toilet?
Kitchen? possibly
Hallway?
Lounge?
Living Room? possibly
Study?
Landing?
Ballroom?
Dining Room? possibly
Billiard Room?
Library?
Attic?
Cellar?
Bunker?
Hotel room?

no to the rest. The exact type room is not as important as one particular feature of the room

The type of building in which the room is located relevant? only in the sense that people can have their homes in it
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 6:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So there are 3 dead people in a room?
Two are ladies and they are on the floor by the door?
And the other is a man, not on the floor by the door?

They are all in their later years?

I guess it must be significant where the man is located?

Did the man die first? Relevant?

Did the death of the man somehow lead to the death of the women?

Is there something unusual about the man?
Is his corpse intact?
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 7:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So there are 3 dead people in a room? exactly so
Two are ladies and they are on the floor by the door? yesish; however,it is not so relevant, I used the door mainly because of the rhyme ; let us say that they are just lying on the floor
And the other is a man, not on the floor by the door? yes

They are all in their later years? yes

I guess it must be significant where the man is located? yes, it is indeed

Did the man die first? No Relevant? very much so for the second lady, not so relevant for the first one

Did the death of the man somehow lead to the death of the women? yesish

Is there something unusual about the man? yes
Is his corpse intact? no
Hannah Kinghern (Kdoc)
Posted on Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 8:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Alizon :)

Can we call them Sara, Jane and Tim?
where sara and Jane are older women, lying dead on the floor of a room? and Tim is an older man lying dead somewhere in the room?
did Tim die first? second? third?
did the women die at slightly different times? if so, can we say Sara died first?

did any die from murder? sara? tim? jane?
suicide? sara? jane? tim?
illness? sara? jane? tim?

could this be a real life situation?
relevant when this took place? modern times?
relevant which country this takes place in?

is the building a private home? does it belong to sara? tim? jane? someone a stranger to them all?

has a crime been committed?
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 8:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Alizon hello and welcome, Hannah!

Can we call them Sara, Jane and Tim? Of course we can, nice names!
where sara and Jane are older women, lying dead on the floor of a room?Exactly and Tim is an older man yeslying dead somewhere in the room? FA
did Tim die first? second? third? this one
did the women die at slightly different times? yes! good question! if so, can we say Sara died first? definitely!

did any die from murder? sara? noish tim? nojane? noish
suicide? sara? nojane? notim? noish
illness? sara? noishjane? noish tim? no

could this be a real life situation? it is reported to be the case, although we may suspect it to be an urban legend as well
relevant when this took place? not reallymodern times? could well be
relevant which country this takes place in? not really

is the building a private home? yes, with a slight FA does it belong to sara? irrelevant, but it can well be tim? see above jane? see above someone a stranger to them all? could well be

has a crime been committed? noish
Hannah Kinghern (Kdoc)
Posted on Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 8:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

has tim died? is he in one piece in the room? are his remains in the room? his ashes? his bones?

was any of the deaths an accident? tim? sara? jane?
were sara and tim related? married? were jane and tim related? married? were sara and jane related? friends?
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 8:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

has tim died? yes is he in one piece in the room? yes are his remains in the room? and therefore yes his ashes? his bones ? as part of his body, yes

was any of the deaths an accident? tim? sara? jane? I think this is closest for all three of them
were sara and tim related? yes married? yes, and on the right track! were jane and tim related? they knew each other married? no were sara and jane related? they knew each other friends? possibly, but not relevant
Hannah Kinghern (Kdoc)
Posted on Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 8:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

so sara died then jane died? did jane die seconds after sara? minutes? hours? days?
then tim died? seconds after jane? minutes? hours? days?

when sara died was jane in the room? was tim?
when jane died was tim in the room?

did jane see sara die? did tim see sara die did tim see jane die?

did tim die of the same cause as sara and jane?

was anything relevant said by any of them? sara? jane? tim?

were there any relevant noises? smells?

the cause of death of sara and jane.. did they suffocate? die from blood loss? die from poison? from infection? from crushing? from brain injury? was electricity involved? fire? water? a sharp object?
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 9:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

so sara died then jane died? yes did jane die seconds after sara? minutes? this one hours? days?
then tim died? exactly seconds after jane? minutes? this is closest hours? days?

when sara died was jane in the room? no was tim? yes
when jane died was tim in the room? yes

did jane see sara die? no did tim see sara die yes did tim see jane die? yes

did tim die of the same cause as sara and jane? no

was anything relevant said by any of them? sara? jane? tim? not a single word was spoken....

were there any relevant noises? ...yet a sound was emitted smells? no

the cause of death of sara and jane.. did they suffocate? die from blood loss? die from poison? from infection? from crushing? from brain injury? was electricity involved? fire? water? a sharp object? neither

wow... if you continue at this speed, we will be done very quickly... excellent questions, almost all on the right track!
Hannah Kinghern (Kdoc)
Posted on Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 9:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm a little confused..

at 7.31 we have:
"Is his corpse intact? no "

then at 8.40:
"has tim died? yes is he in one piece in the room? yes"

I'm missing something I guess...

has something exploded?

the sound - made by one of them? made by a machine? a musical sound? a warning sound? a naturally occurring sound? a telephone?

is weather relevant?

did tim die as a result of sara dying? as a result of jane dying? could tim has prevented sara'a death? jane's death? his own? did tim know he was going to die?
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 9:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm a little confused..

at 7.31 we have:
"Is his corpse intact? no "

then at 8.40:
"has tim died? yes is he in one piece in the room? yes"

I'm missing something I guess... no, you aren't - the body is in one piece yet I would not say that it is intact

has something exploded? no

the sound - made by one of them? yes made by a machine? a musical sound? a warning sound? a naturally occurring sound? a telephone? no to the rest

is weather relevant? not at all

did tim die as a result of sara dying? yesish as a result of jane dying? yesishcould tim has prevented sara'a death? definitely jane's death? even more definitely his own? yes did tim know he was going to die? no
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 10:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sounds like what ever they got up to didn't work out too well!

Was the order of deaths: woman - man - woman?
Did they all die from different causes?

Did any of them desire the death of the others? Relevant?

The man is not on the floor?
Is he on the ceiling?
On top of something?
Inside something?
Hanging from something?

IS his body in more than one piece?

The man:
Any bones broken?
Any flesh removed?
Any other injuries?

Are the bodies of the women intact?

Were they all in the room for the duration? Or was there at least one entrance / exit during the deaths?

Any of these relevant?
Professions?
Medical conditions?
Grudges?
Misunderstandings?
Coincidences?
Food / Drink?
Animals?

Any of these causes of death relevant?
Cardiac arrest?
Poisoning?
Asphyxia?
drowning?
malnutrition?
Gun shots
stab wounds?
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 11:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sounds like what ever they got up to didn't work out too well! this is exactly how I would define it, too

Was the order of deaths: woman - man - woman? no
Did they all die from different causes? do you mean if each and every of them died from a different cause? if so, then my answer is no; however, some deeper exploration might help

Did any of them desire the death of the others? no Relevant? yes

The man is not on the floor? that's right
Is he on the ceiling? he is connected to the ceiling, if you mean this
On top of something? no
Inside something? no
Hanging from something? bingo! YES!

IS his body in more than one piece? no, it is hanging in its entirety

The man:
Any bones broken? no
Any flesh removed? no
Any other injuries? yes, see above

Are the bodies of the women intact? yes

Were they all in the room for the duration? no, good question! Or was there at least one entrance yes, even better question!/ exit no, unless you mean the medical sense of the term during the deaths?

Any of these relevant?
Professions? no to noish
Medical conditions? yesish
Grudges? yes, and very much so
Misunderstandings? yes
Coincidences? yesish
Food no/ Drink? yesish
Animals? no


Any of these causes of death relevant?
Cardiac arrest? yes
Poisoning?
Asphyxia? this one, too
drowning?
malnutrition?
Gun shots
stab wounds?
no to the rest

There goes another set of excellent questions! If the two of you go on like this, we will be done before bedtime today. Oww, and I have quite a lot of work to do to earn my daily bread.. but I can't resist, this is much more interesting...
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 11:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This all sounds quite complicated..

Was the man hanging by the neck?
Did he die by hanging?
You said there was no suicide?
Did the man hang himself (by error)?
Did a prank go wrong?
Was he depressed - decided to hang himself - thought against it and then it happened by error?

Did one of the women drop dead witha heart attack when they saw him hanging?

Did the man die first?
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 11:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did someone knock him off the chair when they opened the door?

Was there any marriage union between any two of them?
Were they siblings?
Just friends?

Can we call them Fred, Freda and Fanny?
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Sunday, January 16, 2005 - 12:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This all sounds quite complicated.. and indeed it was

Was the man hanging by the neck? yes
Did he die by hanging? yes
You said there was no suicide? yes and I hold it
Did the man hang himself ? YES!!!
Did a prank go wrong? YES!!
Was he depressed - decided to hang himself - thought against it and then it happened by error? no

Did one of the women drop dead witha heart attack when they saw him hanging? YES!!

Did the man die first? no, see above my answers to Hannah's questions
Did someone knock him off the chair when they opened the door? no

Was there any marriage union between any two of them? yes, see above
Were they siblings? no
Just friends? maybe two of them were, but not relevant

Can we call them Fred, Freda and Fanny? I am afraid we can't. Not that these are not nice names, but Hannah has already called them Sara, Jane and Tim

Well, you are almost there! Now I must really really go and do some serious work
I am paid for, but sometime tomorrow I will be back -and I am sure we will $poil soon thereafter. Good night!
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Sunday, January 16, 2005 - 12:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

goodnight Alizon and don't work too hard!
Shawn Franchi (Doctapeppa)
Posted on Sunday, January 16, 2005 - 4:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Lemme take a wild guess here:
Tim was mad at his wife, Sara, so he devised a way to make it seem like he hung himself. When Jane came and saw him hanging, she had a heart attack. Then, Jane walked by. She saw the house with the residents dead. She tried to steal some stuff, and Tim tried to stop her, still looking like he was hanged. That scared Jane so much that she had a heart attack. Then, Tim died.
Alizon (Alizon)
Posted on Sunday, January 16, 2005 - 7:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Shawn: A wild shot... which went directly into the bull's eye!!!!

This is exactly how it happened and I have only minor details to add. I hope you won't mind if I use your version for you to see how little it differs from the story.

******************SPOILER****************

Tim, a tailor by profession, was indeed mad at his wife, Sara. He was spending most of his time in pubs and she nagged him about this. So one day, after a good couple of beers, he had an idea. He would feign a suicide, Sara would realize what she would lose in him, and after finding out he was alive, she will be immensely relieved and be much kinder to him.

He devised a tricky way to make it seem like he hung himself; he sew his pair of braces together and used them to carry the weight of his body instead of the noose he put around his neck. He fastened both the braces and the noose to the ceiling, arranged himself in the hanging position and when he heard Sara's key in the door lock, he kicked away the chair. Sara entered the room, saw him hanging, shrieked with horror, but from this moment on, the things developed quite differently from what Tim had so carefully planned. Sara had a heart attack and dropped dead to the floor.

Jane, their neighbour, heard Sara cry and she went to see what happened. She entered the room, saw Tim hanging and Sara dead on the floor, and so she decided to help herself to a considerable part of their possession. Tim's shock slowly grew to astonishment and then to cold anger. He waited until she turned her back to him and kicked her in the buttocks with all his force. Needless to say, the shock made her heart stop and she dropped dead to the floor.

When Tim saw the two corpses, he suddenly sobered up and started thinking how to get himself a good alibi. He undid the braces but forgot that there was still the noose around his neck. You can easily imagine the rest.

Lesson for us to be learnt - if you want to play pranks, you shouldn't be stupid, or at least drunk.

Thanks Simon and Hannah for excellent questions and Shawn for the really brilliant ending! I am looking forward to meeting you in another puzzle.
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Sunday, January 16, 2005 - 7:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks for the entertainment Alizon!
Tim A. Dowd (Bodo)
Posted on Sunday, January 16, 2005 - 11:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yeah, well, that wasn't one of my better plans--next time I'll remember to undo the noose first...
Simon Downham (Beroean)
Posted on Sunday, January 16, 2005 - 11:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

:-) Glad to see ya survived it after all. Mind you, you gave us quite a scare.

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