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Abc (Abc)
Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 3:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"Golly! I've seen some 4999s, and som 6999s, yes even an 11999 - but never a 49999!"

What kind of person is saying this, and what is the situation?

The puzzle is rather on the silly side
Christiane Scharf (0815)
Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 3:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the numbers scores for a game? a computer/console game?
Are they prices?
Robin Smith (Robin_smith)
Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 3:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

relevant that the other numbers only contain three 9's? (where as 49999 has four) or is the relevance that 49999 is higher than the others? if it was only 39999 would he still say Golly?
John Faben (Bentarm)
Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 4:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would it be possible to see a 5000? A 7000? a 12000? Would it be possible to see a 12999? a 13999?
Is 49999 the decimal representation of the number which is one less than five lots of 10^5? Is it a number at all? Merely a string of digits?
Abc (Abc)
Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 4:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Christiane Scharf (0815) on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 3:33 pm: Edit

Are the numbers scores for a game? a computer/console game?
Are they prices? None of these

By Robin Smith (Robin_smith) on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 3:41 pm: Edit

relevant that the other numbers only contain three 9's? (where as 49999 has four) or is the relevance that 49999 is higher than the others? This last one
if it was only 39999 would he still say Golly? Not quite as loud, perhaps, but yes.

By John Faben (Bentarm) on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 4:13 pm: Edit

Would it be possible to see a 5000? A 7000? a 12000? Would it be possible to see a 12999? a 13999? All yes
Is 49999 the decimal representation of the number which is one less than five lots of 10^5? Yes
Is it a number at all? Yes
Merely a string of digits? No
John Faben (Bentarm)
Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 4:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

are the numbers scores of some kind?
Is his profession relevant? Is it relevant where he sees the numbers? on a computer screen? on a piece of paper?
Does each number correspond to an individual person? An individual something else? A trial of an experiment?
Has he now seen a 49999?
Clycking (Clycking)
Posted on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 5:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the appearance of so many 9s significant, compared to other digits?

Is a 50000 possible? And higher?
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
Posted on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 5:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By John Faben (Bentarm) on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 4:57 pm: Edit

are the numbers scores of some kind?
Is his profession relevant? Noish
Is it relevant where he sees the numbers? Yes
on a computer screen? No
on a piece of paper? Noish
Does each number correspond to an individual person? No
An individual something else? Yesish
A trial of an experiment? No
Has he now seen a 49999? Yes, he's looking at it

By Clycking (Clycking) on Thursday, July 13, 2006 - 5:51 pm: Edit

Is the appearance of so many 9s significant, compared to other digits? Well, sort of

Is a 50000 possible? Yes And higher? Yes
John Faben (Bentarm)
Posted on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 11:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is it more likely that he'd see 4999 than 5000? Is the reason for this relevant?
Are the numbers written down? In ink? by hand? printed? carved? painted?
Can he actually see the figures "49999"? Or just something which corresponds to "a 49999"?
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
Posted on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 3:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is it more likely that he'd see 4999 than 5000? Yes
Is the reason for this relevant? Yes
Are the numbers written down? No (but a bit misleading) In ink? by hand? printed? carved? painted? So no.
Can he actually see the figures "49999"? No
Or just something which corresponds to "a 49999"? He sees the object which he calls "a 49999"
Howard Wilde (Woodworm)
Posted on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 7:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant how he says "49999"? Does he say this number in English? Does he say "four nine nine nine nine"? Or "forty nine, nine nine nine"? Or "forty nine thousand, nine hundred and ninety nine"?

We know that he's more likely to see a 4999 than a 5000, but is he more likely to see a 4999 than a 500?

Is it possible for him to see an [any integer between 1 and 50000]?

Is there a direct linear correlation between the size of the integer and his probablity of seeing one?

Is it possible for him to see a 4.999? A 49.99?

Is he a trainspotter?
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
Posted on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 8:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Howard Wilde (Woodworm) on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 7:24 pm: Edit

Is it relevant how he says "49999"? Does he say this number in English? Does he say "four nine nine nine nine"? Or "forty nine, nine nine nine"? Or "forty nine thousand, nine hundred and ninety nine"? Most probably this last one

We know that he's more likely to see a 4999 than a 5000, but is he more likely to see a 4999 than a 500? I might have been a little hasty in stating this. Acting in this particular role, he's more likely to see a 4999 than a 500, yes.

Is it possible for him to see an [any integer between 1 and 50000]? All of these are possible, but some are much more likely than others.

Is there a direct linear correlation between the size of the integer and his probablity of seeing one? No

Is it possible for him to see a 4.999? A 49.99? Theoretically, yes, in practice virtually no. For all practical, reasonable purposes, only integers are possible

Is he a trainspotter? No
rebecca kreisler (Beccaann)
Posted on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 9:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the likelihood of seeing any particular number correspond to some mathematical quality of that number? For example, it's divisors?, whether it is prime or not?, whether it is even or odd?
Howard Wilde (Woodworm)
Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 10:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it theoretically possible for him to see a minus 4999?

Would it help to have a maths qualification to solve this puzzle?

Is the indefinite article relevant (he always says "A 4999", not just "4999")?

When he sees the 49999, is he upset? Pleasantly surprised? Neutrally surprised?

When he sees it, is he doing his normal job? Or is he doing something recreational?
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 11:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By rebecca kreisler (Beccaann) on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 9:12 pm: Edit

Does the likelihood of seeing any particular number correspond to some mathematical quality of that number? Yesish
For example, it's divisors? Yes, whether it is prime or not? Noish
whether it is even or odd? A bit, perhaps

By Howard Wilde (Woodworm) on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 10:33 am: Edit

Is it theoretically possible for him to see a minus 4999? No

Would it help to have a maths qualification to solve this puzzle? No

Is the indefinite article relevant (he always says "A 4999", not just "4999")? Yes

When he sees the 49999, is he upset? This
Pleasantly surprised? Neutrally surprised?

When he sees it, is he doing his normal job? I don't think it's his job
Or is he doing something recreational? Not exactly this either. More like voluntary charity work.
Christiane Scharf (0815)
Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 12:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is he looking for prime numbers? Does he find out that his newest candidate has a divisor besides itself and 1 (and the divisor is 49999)?
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 7:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is he looking for prime numbers? Does he find out that his newest candidate has a divisor besides itself and 1 (and the divisor is 49999)? No
Howard Wilde (Woodworm)
Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 11:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

How upset is he? Deeply hurt (eg as if bereaved)?

Mildly disappointed (eg as if losing a few pounds on a bet)?

Disappointed with human nature?

Does he suffer a personal loss when he sees the 49999? A financial loss?

Does the charity work involve money? Children? The elderly? Famine relief? Raffles? A tombola? A lottery of sorts?

If he had seen a 50000, would he have been upset? Equally upset? Less upset? More upset? Pleased? Deliriously happy?
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
Posted on Monday, July 17, 2006 - 6:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

How upset is he? Deeply hurt (eg as if bereaved)? Let's go the whole nine yards, and say "this"

Mildly disappointed (eg as if losing a few pounds on a bet)? So not this, then

Disappointed with human nature? No

Does he suffer a personal loss when he sees the 49999? No A financial loss? No

Does the charity work involve money? No
Children? The elderly? Could include both of these, but not in particular Famine relief? Raffles? A tombola? A lottery of sorts? None of these

If he had seen a 50000, would he have been upset? NO
Equally upset? Less upset? More upset? None of these Pleased? Maybe this Deliriously happy? Probably not
Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab)
Posted on Monday, July 17, 2006 - 11:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The numbers are (a bit misleadingly) not written down, but he 'sees' them -- are they displaying on a computer monitor? a dial? some other type of display?
Christiane Scharf (0815)
Posted on Monday, July 17, 2006 - 11:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do numbers like 50000 indicate some kind of threshold? Is it bad to be under the threshold? Is it good to be above the threshold?
Is the 49999 bad for him? for the people he works with? one/some of the people he works with?
Howard Wilde (Woodworm)
Posted on Monday, July 17, 2006 - 1:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a matter of life and death? Do people actually meet their demise as a result of the 49999? Or does 49999 represent some sort of death toll?
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
Posted on Thursday, July 20, 2006 - 6:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Barbara Johannessen Bailey (Rabrab) on Monday, July 17, 2006 - 11:37 am: Edit

The numbers are (a bit misleadingly) not written down Well, Yope, but he 'sees' them -- are they displaying on a computer monitor? a dial? some other type of display? All no

By Christiane Scharf (0815) on Monday, July 17, 2006 - 11:59 am: Edit

Do numbers like 50000 indicate some kind of threshold? Yes
Is it bad to be under the threshold? Yes
Is it good to be above the threshold? Depends on your definition of "above the treshold"
Is the 49999 bad for him? A bit
for the people he works with? Yes
one/some of the people he works with? Yes

I take "the people he works with" to mean those who benefit from the charity work, not his colleagues

By Howard Wilde (Woodworm) on Monday, July 17, 2006 - 1:35 pm: Edit

Is it a matter of life and death?
Do people actually meet their demise as a result of the 49999? Or does 49999 represent some sort of death toll? All no
Howard Wilde (Woodworm)
Posted on Thursday, July 20, 2006 - 10:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the beneficiaries of his work would benefit more if a certain target was reached? And when it isn't, they suffer? Would it help to find out who benefits from his charitable work? Children? Animals? The elderly? The sick?
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
Posted on Thursday, July 20, 2006 - 10:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the beneficiaries of his work would benefit more if a certain target was reached? No, FA
And when it isn't, they suffer? Yes
Would it help to find out who benefits from his charitable work? Yes, but I believe it could prove difficult to go that way
Children? Animals? The elderly? The sick? None of these, specifically
John Faben (Bentarm)
Posted on Friday, July 21, 2006 - 5:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would the people who benefit from his charity work ever meet him? live in the same city as him? country?
Does he see a number other than 49999 written down? And this number corresponds to "a 49999"? Does he see anything written down?
On seeing the object, does he know immediately that it is "a 49999"? If not - how long would it take him to figure out that it was "a 49999"? minutes? hours? days? Would he need to take any measurements?
Would I know that it is "a 49999"? would those who benefit from his charity work recognise it as a 49999? recognise that the existence of a 49999 was bad for them?
is some physical property of it relevant to its being "a 49999"? mass? size? speed?
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 1:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would the people who benefit from his charity work ever meet him? live in the same city as him? country? All yes
Does he see a number other than 49999 written down? Yes
And this number corresponds to "a 49999"? Yes
Does he see anything written down? <b>As described above/b
On seeing the object, does he know immediately that it is "a 49999"? Not necessarily?
If not - how long would it take him to figure out that it was "a 49999"? minutes? hours? days? Could vary, but "seconds" would be a reasonable guessWould he need to take any measurements? No
Would I know that it is "a 49999"? <b>Yope or yesish</b
would those who benefit from his charity work recognise it as a 49999? YES
recognise that the existence of a 49999 was bad for them? FA
is some physical property of it relevant to its being "a 49999"? Yope/Yesish mass? Only indirectly size? speed? No to these
Howard Wilde (Woodworm)
Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 1:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Roman numerals relevant?
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 2:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Roman numerals relevant? No
Howard Wilde (Woodworm)
Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 2:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does he see any digits upside down (in the style of the famous "come in number six, your time is up")?

He DOES see an actual number written down, yes? And this number is not 49999, right? Is it a base ten number? Is it higher than 49999? Lower than 49999? Is it notated in normal arabic numerals or is it written in some other way such as a chart or tally?
Howard Wilde (Woodworm)
Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 2:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is he reading something in hex?
John Faben (Bentarm)
Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 5:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the existence of a 49999 bad for the people who benefit from his work? Is the fact that the thing he is looking at is a 49999 bad for them? Would a 59999 have upset him even more?
Would it help us to find out exactly what number he sees written down? A number bigger than 49999? smaller? a multiple? A number with some relevant mathematical relationship to 49999?
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 6:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Howard Wilde (Woodworm) on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 2:51 pm: Edit

Does he see any digits upside down (in the style of the famous "come in number six, your time is up")? No

He DOES see an actual number written down, yes? Yes
And this number is not 49999, right? Correct
Is it a base ten number? Yes
Is it higher than 49999? Yes
Lower than 49999? No
Is it notated in normal arabic numerals or is it written in some other way such as a chart or tally? Ordinary arabic numerals

By Howard Wilde (Woodworm) on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 2:52 pm: Edit

Is he reading something in hex? No

By John Faben (Bentarm) on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 5:10 pm: Edit

Is the existence of a 49999 bad for the people who benefit from his work? Yesish
Is the fact that the thing he is looking at is a 49999 bad for them? Yesish, possible FA Would a 59999 have upset him even more? A little bit more, I suppose
Would it help us to find out exactly what number he sees written down? A little, I suppose A number bigger than 49999? <b>Yes/b>
smaller? No a multiple? No
A number with some relevant mathematical relationship to 49999? Define "relevant" in this context. I'd say yes, definitely

Once, long ago, I suggested that we should allow asking directly for integer numeric values, and stated that I would have nothing against answering such questions in my own puzzles. I say this just as a reminder...
Howard Wilde (Woodworm)
Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 7:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Aha, I was about to ask: in finding out the number he actually sees, would it be quite contrary to the spirit of these forums to pin it down to [insert list of integers between 50000 and 5000000000 here]? :-)

But you've pre-empted me .... go on then, what is the number that he sees?
Howard Wilde (Woodworm)
Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 7:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do the beneficiaries of his charitable work have to perform a mathematical operation to arrive at 49999? Do they need to be mathematically competent for the puzzle to work? In arriving at a 49999 from the seen number, would an averagely educated non-specialist (eg. me) need to use a calculator? Or would it be fairly obvious to such a layman? Would you expect this group of people to arrive at the conclusion "it's a 49999" more quickly than I would with my very basic school maths?
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
Posted on Monday, July 24, 2006 - 7:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Howard Wilde (Woodworm) on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 7:35 pm: Edit

Aha, I was about to ask: in finding out the number he actually sees, would it be quite contrary to the spirit of these forums to pin it down to [insert list of integers between 50000 and 5000000000 here]?

But you've pre-empted me .... go on then, what is the number that he sees? 50000

By Howard Wilde (Woodworm) on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 7:45 pm: Edit

Do the beneficiaries of his charitable work have to perform a mathematical operation to arrive at 49999? No, or at most in a very vague and remote sense
Do they need to be mathematically competent for the puzzle to work? No
In arriving at a 49999 from the seen number, would an averagely educated non-specialist (eg. me) need to use a calculator? Absolutely not
Or would it be fairly obvious to such a layman? It would
Would you expect this group of people to arrive at the conclusion "it's a 49999" more quickly than I would with my very basic school maths? No. You, however, not having the experience of our hero in this puzzle, would probably not call it "a" 49999
Mike Holden (Plebeian)
New member
Username: Plebeian

Post Number: 5
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 3:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the numbers he refers to the prices of some things?
Howard Wilde (Woodworm)
New member
Username: Woodworm

Post Number: 307
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 4:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So is it true that every time he sees the number n written down, he would say he had seen "a n-1?"

Anything to do with charitable donations? Tax deductions?
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
Moderator
Username: Abc

Post Number: 30
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Wednesday, July 26, 2006 - 6:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Mike Holden (Plebeian)
Are the numbers he refers to the prices of some things? No

Howard Wilde (Woodworm)
So is it true that every time he sees the number n written down, he would say he had seen "a n-1?" no

Anything to do with charitable donations? Tax deductions? Neither

<i>The charity in question is a rather silly one, and one that almost certainly does not exist.</b>
Mike Holden (Plebeian)
New member
Username: Plebeian

Post Number: 15
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Wednesday, July 26, 2006 - 11:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are there words alongside the number? Like "up to 50000" or "Less than 50000"? Or just the number itself? Is there an indicator of what the number represents, like a pound sign or a unit of measurement? Is our hero upset because 49999 is a big number? Or is he upset because it's not a bigger number?
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
Moderator
Username: Abc

Post Number: 32
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Wednesday, July 26, 2006 - 12:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are there words alongside the number? One word
Like "up to 50000" or "Less than 50000"? None of these, though
Or just the number itself? Could be this too, but we settle for "one word"
Is there an indicator of what the number represents, like a pound sign or a unit of measurement? Yes
Is our hero upset because 49999 is a big number? Partly, but not mainly
Or is he upset because it's not a bigger number? No
Mike Holden (Plebeian)
New member
Username: Plebeian

Post Number: 25
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Wednesday, July 26, 2006 - 1:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the word describes what the number 50000 refers to? Rather than "< 50000"?
Is the word a unit of
length
time
money
weight
density
(I'm sure there's more I could list...)
Or is it a description of the objects referred to, like "50000 dead"?
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
Moderator
Username: Abc

Post Number: 33
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Thursday, July 27, 2006 - 7:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Mike Holden (Plebeian)

So the word describes what the number 50000 refers to? Yes
Rather than "less than 50000"? It does not say "less than 50000", no
Is the word a unit of
length
time
money
weight
density None of these
(I'm sure there's more I could list...)
Or is it a description of the objects referred to, like "50000 dead"? Yes (but your example is wrong)
Mike Holden (Plebeian)
New member
Username: Plebeian

Post Number: 73
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Thursday, July 27, 2006 - 1:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does it say "< 50000"? "> 50000"? "50000+"?
When he sees 50000 he refers to it as "a 49999", correct?
When he's seen other numbers, has the same thing occurred? e.g. when he says he's seen some 6999s, did he actually see the number 7000 in the same context as now?
And is there a reason other than chance why the values 4999, 6999 and 11999 have been seen? Are other similar values (e.g. 5999, 3999) as likely to be seen?
Are the values seen more likely than others? Or is it just that generally, the higher the number the less likely it is to occur?
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
Moderator
Username: Abc

Post Number: 35
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Thursday, July 27, 2006 - 2:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does it say "<50000"?> 50000"? "50000+"? All no. It says "50000" plus one descriptive word. There is other printing too, but that is largely irrelevant.
When he sees 50000 he refers to it as "a 49999", correct? No
When he's seen other numbers, has the same thing occurred? e.g. when he says he's seen some 6999s, did he actually see the number 7000 in the same context as now? Yes
And is there a reason other than chance why the values 4999, 6999 and 11999 have been seen? FA, I think, but there is a reason, yes
Are other similar values (e.g. 5999, 3999) as likely to be seen? Yes
Are the values seen more likely than others? I'm no expert, but I would think the most likely values lie between 499/500, and, say, 4999/5000
Or is it just that generally, the higher the number the less likely it is to occur? Above the 5000 neighbourhood, I think the probability will drop sharply.
Christiane Scharf (0815)
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Posted on Friday, July 28, 2006 - 7:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the descriptive word always the same word?
Is rounding up or down relevant?
Do they play a game?
When he sees the number 50000 in this context, would he always refer to it as "a 49999"?
Is a 499 worse than a 49999? Is a 49999 worse than a 499? Are they in fact equally bad but the 49999 is more disappointing? Is a 499 more disappointing than a 49999?
Katy (Katy)
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Posted on Saturday, July 29, 2006 - 1:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the seen figure is 50000, which he refer to as a 49999? So there's one difference - is the exact one relevant? Does the number refer to people?
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
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Posted on Sunday, July 30, 2006 - 8:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Christiane Scharf (0815)
Is the descriptive word always the same word? Yes
Is rounding up or down relevant? No
Do they play a game? Noish
When he sees the number 50000 in this context, would he always refer to it as "a 49999"? Not necessarily. Also, beware of what you are referring to when you say "it". There may be a FA here.
Is a 499 worse than a 49999? No
Is a 49999 worse than a 499? Most people would probably say yes
Are they in fact equally bad but the 49999 is more disappointing? That could be a way of putting it, yes
Is a 499 more disappointing than a 49999? No

Katy (Katy)
Hi Katy - how are you?

So the seen figure is 50000 Yes, which he refer to as a 49999? No
So there's one difference - is the exact one relevant? It could be more, but will usually be one
Does the number refer to people? No
Mike Holden (Plebeian)
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Posted on Sunday, July 30, 2006 - 7:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Erm...
You say he sees the figure 50000, but that he doesn't refer to it as 'a 49999'? But you've said earlier "he sees the object which he refers to as 'a 49999'"? Is the object he sees different from the writing? Is the writing refering to the collection of objects? An incorrecly numbered? Or rounded up?
Rick Evans (Lemon_martini2)
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Posted on Sunday, July 30, 2006 - 8:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the number refer to an object? Objects that he collects? Is he a bus or train spotter and these are particularly rare models?
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
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Posted on Monday, July 31, 2006 - 8:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Mike Holden (Plebeian)
Erm...

You say he sees the figure 50000, but that he doesn't refer to it as 'a 49999'? Correct, he does not refer to the figure as 'a 49999'
But you've said earlier "he sees the object which he refers to as 'a 49999'"? Yes
Is the object he sees different from the writing? Yes
Is the writing refering to the collection of objects? 'The' collection of objects? It does refer to 'a' collection of objects, yes
An incorrecly numbered? Noish
Or rounded up? No

Rick Evans (Lemon_martini2)

Does the number refer to an object? Yope Objects that he collects? The question can be interpreted in several ways, and is difficult to answer without misleading. 'Maybe' is probably the best answer
Is he a bus or train spotter and these are particularly rare models? No
Mike Holden (Plebeian)
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Posted on Monday, July 31, 2006 - 10:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, there is a number and a word written on...
a tv screen?
a sign?
a newspaper?
a label
And a collection of objects which he also sees?
Is the number written intended to be a description or labelling of the items he sees?
Does the word alongside the number say what the objects are?
Is the number intended to accurately quantify the objects? Or provide an approximation?
And the number written is 50000? or 49999?
Is the number of objects 50000? or 49999? or a similar quantity?
Are the objects he sees: -
animals? Birds? Insects? Other living creatures?
objects?
Things which individually would be within the capability of a normal person to pick up? (for now, notwithstanding any other difficulty of picking an item up, such as it being spikey/liquid/powder or likely to bite. I'm just trying to guage size and weight).
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
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Posted on Monday, July 31, 2006 - 12:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, there is a number and a word written on...
a tv screen?
a sign?
a newspaper?
a label ?
None of these

And a collection of objects which he also sees? Yes(ish)
Is the number written intended to be a description or labelling of the items he sees? Yes
Does the word alongside the number say what the objects are? Yes
Is the number intended to accurately quantify the objects? Or provide an approximation? Accurately quantify
And the number written is 50000? or 49999? 50000
Is the number of objects 50000? or 49999? or a similar quantity? 49999
Are the objects he sees: -
animals? Birds? Insects? Other living creatures?
objects? This
Things which individually would be within the capability of a normal person to pick up? Yes, without qualifications(for now, notwithstanding any other difficulty of picking an item up, such as it being spikey/liquid/powder or likely to bite. I'm just trying to guage size and weight).
Mike Holden (Plebeian)
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Posted on Monday, July 31, 2006 - 1:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the man in a queue for anything? [long shot]
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
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Is the man in a queue for anything? No
Mike Holden (Plebeian)
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Posted on Monday, July 31, 2006 - 1:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

[shame, would've saved a lot of questions (-:]
So there are 49999 objects in view? is it possible for this person (or indeed any person) to tell quickly that there are 49999 objects?
Are the objects in some kind of arrangement?
...or could they be placed in some arrangement? [another long shot]
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
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Posted on Monday, July 31, 2006 - 8:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So there are 49999 objects in view? Correct
is it possible for this person (or indeed any person) to tell quickly that there are 49999 objects? Yope
Are the objects in some kind of arrangement? YES
...or could they be placed in some arrangement? Since they already are placed thusly, no. Very good question, though.
Mike Holden (Plebeian)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 01, 2006 - 12:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jigsaw???
Kitral Solane (Solane)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 01, 2006 - 3:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the objects in the shape of a number?
Like 50000 dominoes in the shape of a 49999? Vice Versa?
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
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Mike Holden (Plebeian)
Jigsaw??? YES! Now, what's going on?

Kitral Solane (Solane)
Are the objects in the shape of a number? No
Like 50000 dominoes in the shape of a 49999? Vice Versa? Neither
Mike Holden (Plebeian)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 01, 2006 - 9:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, I assume the guy is looking at a Jigsaw? or Jigsaws? and as there's a previous mention of charity, could they be donated jigsaws? Which usually have a piece missing (which is often why they're donated in the first place)?
So the phrase would be '50000 pieces'? But likely to contain 49999?
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 01, 2006 - 9:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, I assume the guy is looking at a Jigsaw? Yes
or Jigsaws? Just one
and as there's a previous mention of charity, could they be donated jigsaws? No
Which usually have a piece missing (which is often why they're donated in the first place)? Well, in this case, the jigsaw has one piece missing, yes
So the phrase would be '50000 pieces'? Correct
But likely to contain 49999? It did contain 49999 pieces, yes
Mike Holden (Plebeian)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 01, 2006 - 9:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok, so our hero is looking at a jigsaw labelled '50000 pieces' (big jigsaw!!!), and he says it's 'a 49999'.
Does he know at once that there's in fact 49999?
Has he been told this? or is he being given the jigsaw specifically because it's got a piece missing?
Is he looking for the missing piece?
Or does he have to count the existing pieces to confirm the number?
is he helping someone complete the jigsaw?
Howard Wilde (Woodworm)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 01, 2006 - 1:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is he an official jigsaw checker? Is his job to assemble the pieces before putting them in the bag? Is the 49999 a new jigsaw or a secondhand one? Is he performing some sort of world record attempt at jigsaw assembly?
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 01, 2006 - 8:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Mike Holden (Plebeian)

Ok, so our hero is looking at a jigsaw labelled '50000 pieces' (big jigsaw!!!), and he says it's 'a 49999'. Correct
Does he know at once that there's in fact 49999? Yes
Has he been told this? Not necessarily
or is he being given the jigsaw specifically because it's got a piece missing? FA
Is he looking for the missing piece? No
Or does he have to count the existing pieces to confirm the number? No
is he helping someone complete the jigsaw? Noish

Howard Wilde (Woodworm)

Is he an official jigsaw checker? No
Is his job to assemble the pieces before putting them in the bag? No
Is the 49999 a new jigsaw or a secondhand one? Irrelevant
Is he performing some sort of world record attempt at jigsaw assembly? No

Remember he is a silly kind of charity worker
Mike Holden (Plebeian)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 02, 2006 - 11:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the jigsaw assembled when he sees it? And therefore he knows instantly that there's a piece missing?
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 02, 2006 - 1:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the jigsaw assembled when he sees it? And therefore he knows instantly that there's a piece missing? Exactly

Only thing that remains is to find out what kind of fictional charity he is working for
Mike Holden (Plebeian)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 02, 2006 - 1:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The "lost jigsaw piece appreciation society"?
The "missing piece finders of Great Britain"? (or your country of origin :-) )
The "Jigsaw restoration club"?
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 02, 2006 - 2:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The "lost jigsaw piece appreciation society"?
The "missing piece finders of Great Britain"? (or your country of origin )
The "Jigsaw restoration club"? None of these, sorry
Mike Holden (Plebeian)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 02, 2006 - 5:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok, it is true that the jigsaws are connected with the charity?
Does the charity aim to add the 'missing piece' to these puzzles?
Is the charity connected with the distribution of complete puzzles?
Or the distribution of incomplete puzzles?
Are the 'subjects' of the charity (i.e. those the charity is designed to help)
People?
Animals?
Jigsaws??
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 02, 2006 - 6:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok, it is true that the jigsaws are connected with the charity? Yes
Does the charity aim to add the 'missing piece' to these puzzles? No
Is the charity connected with the distribution of complete puzzles? No
Or the distribution of incomplete puzzles? No
Are the 'subjects' of the charity (i.e. those the charity is designed to help)
People? Yes
Animals? No
Jigsaws??No
Mike Holden (Plebeian)
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Posted on Thursday, August 03, 2006 - 10:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do the charity workers aim to raise money? by selling the jigsaws?
Complete? or incomplete?
Are the subjects of the charity
physically disadvantaged (i.e. handicapped)?
Mentally disadvantaged?
in a disadvantaged situation? (e.g. poor/homeless)?
Victims of some disaster?
Is the nature or their need actually relevant?
Is the jigsaw actually relevant to their cause? Or just one of several things at, say, a jumble sale in their benefit?
Howard Wilde (Woodworm)
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Posted on Thursday, August 03, 2006 - 1:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is he a post-assembly trauma counsellor who comforts people who have spent years assembling a jigsaw only to find it has a piece missing?
Torgeir Apeland (Abc)
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Posted on Friday, August 04, 2006 - 7:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do the charity workers aim to raise money? by selling the jigsaws?
Complete? or incomplete?
Are the subjects of the charity
physically disadvantaged (i.e. handicapped)?
Mentally disadvantaged? No to these
in a disadvantaged situation? (e.g. poor/homeless)? Yes (but not your examples)
Victims of some disaster? I guess you could say that
Is the nature or their need actually relevant? Yes
Is the jigsaw actually relevant to their cause? Yes
Or just one of several things at, say, a jumble sale in their benefit?No

Is he a post-assembly trauma counsellor who comforts people who have spent years assembling a jigsaw only to find it has a piece missing? Exactly!

****************** SPOILER *****************

This is from the Norwegian comic "Pondus", where several people from the "Jigsaw puzzler's trauma unit" is on an emergency call-out to a bloke who has just about finished his 50000-piece jigsaw puzzle and found one piece to be missing. In the last frame, outside of the house, we see the main character Pondus' young, badly-behaved son, together with his accomplice, with evil grins on their faces, playing with the last piece.
Mike Holden (Plebeian)
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Posted on Friday, August 04, 2006 - 10:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Good one! I thought I was getting close, but the type of charity never entered my head. We could have been here a while longer... :-)

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