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Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 6:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Old hands at the forum know that I'm a (knee-jerk??) liberal. But I agreed with a pronouncement recently made by a conservative, who I thought was right for the wrong reason. How come??
Howard Wilde (Woodworm)
Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 7:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Where to start? Was the pronouncement about any of these:

abortion?
gay rights?
US foreign policy?
taxation?
punishment?
an existing law?
a proposed law?
education?
religion?
marriage?
feminism?
parenting/childcare?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 8:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Howard Wilde (Woodworm) on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 7:40 pm:  Edit

Where to start? Was the pronouncement about any of these:

abortion? no
gay rights? yope
US foreign policy? no
taxation? no
punishment? no
an existing law?noish
a proposed law? noish
education? yes
religion? noish
marriage? no
feminism? noish
parenting/childcare? noish or yope
Howard Wilde (Woodworm)
Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 8:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sex education? Homosexuality? Educational policies on homosexuality?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 8:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Howard Wilde (Woodworm) on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 8:19 pm:  Edit

Sex education? yes Homosexuality? Applies to but not specific to homoisexuality Educational policies on homosexuality? ditto
John Faben (Bentarm)
Posted on Monday, July 17, 2006 - 12:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is contraception relevant? AIDS?
Did the conservative advocate abstinence?
Did he make a statement about sex education 0as it is now? Propose some change to how sex education is taught?
Ian (Image)
Posted on Monday, July 17, 2006 - 1:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the conservative anyone in particular? Relevant who? Some politician? From Canada? The USA? The UK?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Monday, July 17, 2006 - 8:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By John Faben (Bentarm) on Monday, July 17, 2006 - 12:06 am:  Edit

Is contraception relevant? noish AIDS? ditto
Did the conservative advocate abstinence? yes
Did he make a statement about sex education yes0as it is now? yes Propose some change to how sex education is taught? just a cricicism is relevant
By Ian (Image) on Monday, July 17, 2006 - 1:15 am:  Edit

Is the conservative anyone in particular?irrel Relevant who? no Some politician? irrel From Canada? The actual case is in the USA, but I expect it could occur in Canada & the UK (although I am not certain of this). The USA? The UK?

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Howard Wilde (Woodworm)
Posted on Monday, July 17, 2006 - 8:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he advocate abstinence for all unmarried people? Or just for a certain group?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Monday, July 17, 2006 - 9:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Howard Wilde (Woodworm) on Monday, July 17, 2006 - 8:57 pm:  Edit

Did he advocate abstinence for all unmarried people? irrel Or just for a certain group? only a certain group is relevant
Jackie Raymond (Jumpingjack)
Posted on Tuesday, July 18, 2006 - 10:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he advocate abstinence only for people leading alternative lifestyles?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 6:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Jackie Raymond (Jumpingjack) on Tuesday, July 18, 2006 - 10:19 am:  Edit

Did he advocate abstinence only for people leading alternative lifestyles?no

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Puzzllover
Posted on Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 6:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did he advocate abstinence for a certain racial group?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 7:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Puzzllover on Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 6:45 pm:  Edit

did he advocate abstinence for a certain racial group? no
Puzzllover
Posted on Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 7:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

a certain religious group?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 9:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Puzzllover on Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 7:26 pm:  Edit

a certain religious group? no

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Kitral Solane (Solane)
Posted on Thursday, July 20, 2006 - 2:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Unmarried people?
Howard Wilde (Woodworm)
Posted on Thursday, July 20, 2006 - 10:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Age of consent relevant?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 7:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Kitral Solane (Solane) on Thursday, July 20, 2006 - 2:48 am:  Edit

Unmarried people?yope--only some unmarried people are relevant to this puzzle
By Howard Wilde (Woodworm) on Thursday, July 20, 2006 - 10:21 am:  Edit

Age of consent relevant? yesish

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Howard Wilde (Woodworm)
Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 7:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the conservative made some remark about "kids of today"? Referring to teenage sex? Teenage promiscuity? Underage sex? Statutory rape laws? Did she criticize the advice given to young people on sex? Was her criticism a generic one (as in "schools today don't teach kids to respect their own bodies" type of thing) or a specific criticism of a specific policy? A specific law? A specific parent? A specific school?

Was it something like "Young fundamentalists should not reproduce", and a liberal who hates fundamentalists would say "jolly good thing too, there are quite enough fundies in the world"? :-) <--- semi-joking
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 9:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Howard Wilde (Woodworm) on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 7:30 pm:  Edit

So the conservative made some remark about "kids of today"? noish or yope Referring to teenage sex? yes Teenage promiscuity? yes Underage sex? yes Statutory rape laws? no Did she criticize the advice given to young people on sex? yes. GOOOOOOOOD guestion!!!! Was her criticism a generic one (as in "schools today don't teach kids to respect their own bodies" type of thing) or a specific criticism of a specific policy?the latter A specific law? no A specific parent? no A specific school? yope

Was it something like "Young fundamentalists should not reproduce", and a liberal who hates fundamentalists would say "jolly good thing too, there are quite enough fundies in the world"? <--- semi-joking no
Jackie Raymond (Jumpingjack)
Posted on Sunday, July 23, 2006 - 8:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The advice given to young people that she criticised: abstinence? sticking to one partner? use of condoms? use of other contraceptives?
Was she criticising a conservative policy that she didn't like? or was she critisicing a liberal policy?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
Posted on Sunday, July 23, 2006 - 6:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By Jackie Raymond (Jumpingjack) on Sunday, July 23, 2006 - 8:29 am:  Edit

The advice given to young people that she criticised: abstinence? no sticking to one partner? no use of condoms? no use of other contraceptives? no
Was she criticising a conservative policy that she didn't like? no or was she critisicing a liberal policy? yes

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Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 01, 2006 - 9:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

HINT: Specific wording of the policy is relevant
Rebecca Kreisler (Beccaann)
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Post Number: 161
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Posted on Wednesday, August 02, 2006 - 8:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

does this have to do with supposed "values-free" sex education proposed by liberal policy? Is anything concerning "values" relevant? Does it refer to the "sex makes you feel good, sex is a good thing" type attitudes being taught?
Cake (Comforteagle)
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Posted on Thursday, August 03, 2006 - 3:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the wording of the policy make it undesirable no matter what your politics are? Is it poorly worded/ seems to mean something it doesn't intend?
Anything to do with the fact that complete abstinence= no more human race?
Felicia Nimue Ackerman (Nimue)
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Posted on Friday, August 04, 2006 - 10:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Posted on Wednesday, August 02, 2006 - 8:11 pm:   
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does this have to do with supposed "values-free" sex education proposed by liberal policy? yes--but your terribly liberal FN thinks the schools should not attwempt to inculcate values about anything as private as sex Is anything concerning "values" relevant? yes Does it refer to the "sex makes you feel good, sex is a good thing" type attitudes being taught? yesish
Cake (Comforteagle)
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Posted on Thursday, August 03, 2006 - 3:20 pm:   
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Does the wording of the policy make it undesirable no matter what your politics are? yes!!!! Is it poorly worded yes/ seems to mean something it doesn't intend? no
Anything to do with the fact that complete abstinence= no more human race?no
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 7:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is the policy about sex education in general, like about how it should be taught, or to whom, or when, or where, or what information...
Or is it about a more specific area of sex education?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 8:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 7:36 pm:
is the policy about sex education in general, like about how it should be taught, or to whom, or when, or where, or what information...
Or is it about a more specific area of sex education? the latter, but that's not really relevant
Mycroft (Mycroft)
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Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 12:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the policy referring to something you shouldn't do? Or something you should?
Crazypalpig (Crazypalpig)
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Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 2:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

All this and no one asking is the title relevant. IS THE TITLE RELEVANT?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 10:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 11:22 am:   
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Does he hit her?no Is he abusive? yesish
Is his wife allergic to something? irrel

He works both in an office yes and at home yope?
Do it matter whether he works more at the office or at home? yes
Does he do the same thing at the office and at home?noish
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 10:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

BLOOOOPERRRRRRRRRALERT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The previous posting consists of questions & answers from one of my other puzzles. (Man was never formed that all times might attain, but sometime he was put to the worse by mal-fortune}
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 11:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 12:50 pm:   
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Is the policy referring to something you shouldn't do?no Or something you should?noish no
Crazypalpig (Crazypalpig)
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Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 2:11 pm:   
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All this and no one asking is the title relevant. IS THE TITLE RELEVANT?Only in the obvious way--that I think the social & political right is--for once--right (i.e., correct) about something.
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 11:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the (wording of the) policy imply that rape is acceptable? Is safe sex relevant?
If the policy were followed, would more people have sex? fewer? More teenagers? fewer? Would more people get pregnant? fewer? Would more people contract STIs? fewer?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 8:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 11:36 am:   
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Does the (wording of the) policy imply that rape is acceptable? no Is safe sex relevant? no
If the policy were followed, would more people have sex? yes--but I have no objection to that fewer? no More teenagers? yes, but I have no objection to that, either fewer? noWould more people get pregnant? possibly but not necessarily fewer? unlikely Would more people contract STIs? possibly but not necessarily fewer?unlikely
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 11:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would it be relevant who was having sex? Who they were having sex with? How much they enjoyed it?
Would following the policy mean that people already in long-term sexual relationships had sex with each other more often? That people had sex with complete strangers more often?
Are any specifics of the extra sexual acts the policy would lead to themselves relevant? where they take place? when they take place?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 7:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 11:09 am:   
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Would it be relevant who was having sex? yes Who they were having sex with? noish How much they enjoyed it? no
Would following the policy mean that people already in long-term sexual relationships had sex with each other more often? possibly That people had sex with complete strangers more often? ditto
Are any specifics of the extra sexual acts the policy would lead to themselves relevant? no where they take place? no when they take place? no
You're all OWT (on the wrong track)!!:-O:-O:-O:-O
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 7:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are there any particular words in the wording of the policy that have double meanings, or could be taken more than one way?
Or is the issue with the wording more a matter of how it is put together gramatically?--like a dangling participle that leaves one to question what the policy is actually stating?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 8:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2006 - 7:09 pm:   
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Are there any particular words in the wording of the policy that have double meanings, or could be taken more than one way? no
Or is the issue with the wording more a matter of how it is put together gramatically? yes--like a dangling participle that leaves one to question what the policy is actually stating?No. Not only is it not a dangling psrticiple, but it's not a problem of ambiguity or unintended meaning at all
Stuccosalt (Stuccosalt)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2006 - 4:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

she is criticizing advice given to teens about sex. this criticism is directed towards a specific (liberal) policy which is poorly worded. Correct so far?

If the policy were re-worded, would you agree with it? Would the conservative critic agree with it?
Does it directly make a statement about more than teenage sex (i.e. religion, values/morals, etc.) Does it explicitly refer to hetero/homosexuality?

is its current wording problematic to the conservative because:
it condones/promotes teenage sex?
it sends a mixed message (ie, don't have sex, but if you do, use a condom)?
it conflicts with religious/moral values?
it is too narrow or too broad (i.e. only refers to specific teens or sexual behaviors/equates all sexual behavior regardless of sexual orientation)?

is its current wording problematic to you because:
it condones/promotes teenage sex?
it sends a mixed message?
it conflicts with religious/moral values?
it is too narrow or broad (i.e. excludes homosexuality from the discussion/equates all sexual behavior regardless of sexual orientation)?
Wunderland (Wunderland)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2006 - 8:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are you simply annoyed that a policy dictating what should be taught to children contains a grammatical error?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Friday, August 18, 2006 - 2:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Stuccosalt (Stuccosalt)
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Post Number: 498
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Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2006 - 4:24 pm:   
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she is criticizing advice given to teens about sex. this criticism is directed towards a specific (liberal) policy which is poorly worded. Correct so far?yes

If the policy were re-worded, would you agree with it? yes Would the conservative critic agree with it? no
Does it directly make a statement about more than teenage sex (i.e. religion, values/morals, etc.) no Does it explicitly refer to hetero/homosexuality? no

is its current wording problematic to the conservative because:
it condones/promotes teenage sex?yes
it sends a mixed message (ie, don't have sex, but if you do, use a condom)? no
it conflicts with religious/moral values? yes
it is too narrow or too broad (i.e. only refers to specific teens or sexual behaviors/equates all sexual behavior regardless of sexual orientation)? no

is its current wording problematic to you because:
it condones/promotes teenage sex? no. I think sex between consenting teenagers is no one else's business
it sends a mixed message?yes
it conflicts with religious/moral values? no. I'm an atheist
it is too narrow or broad (i.e. excludes homosexuality from the discussion/equates all sexual behavior regardless of sexual orientation)? no
Wunderland (Wunderland)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2006 - 8:30 pm:   
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Are you simply annoyed that a policy dictating what should be taught to children contains a grammatical error? YES!!!!!
******SPOILER ****
When a school board recently issued a "Sexual Bill of Rights" for high school students, including "I have the right to have [consensual]sex with whoever I want," conservatives thought it was a sign of the deterioration of standards in our times. I couldn't agree more. What is the world coming to when professional educators issue ungrammatical statements!?Thanks for solving it, Stuccosalt, & please direct those great lateral skills to my new puzzle at the bottom of the page
Tehanu (Tehanu)
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Posted on Friday, August 18, 2006 - 12:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"What is the world coming to when professional educators issue ungrammatical statements!?"

Hahaha. Nicely done.
Stuccosalt (Stuccosalt)
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Posted on Friday, August 18, 2006 - 1:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Credit to Wunderland for that one - his spoil.
We had a similar situation when I was in high school and the D.A.R.E. program put up posters (and this is a US-wide program, so these were put up in schools all across the country) which read, "You Drink, You Drive, Your Dead" (sic).

I remember asking a teacher if that meant we were supposed to have a few beers and exhume some deceased relatives to take for a car ride, or what.
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Saturday, August 19, 2006 - 7:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I Love it!!

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