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Beroean (Beroean)
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Username: Beroean

Post Number: 1043
Registered: 10-2001
Posted on Friday, November 24, 2006 - 10:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Try this for a bit of fun

In the 18th century they believed a Moslem did it
In the 20th century a Scot said it could never be done
In the 21st century a German does it regularly
Beroean (Beroean)
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Username: Beroean

Post Number: 1044
Registered: 10-2001
Posted on Friday, November 24, 2006 - 10:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Any early spoylers - please email
Lynne (Lynne)
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Username: Lynne

Post Number: 3208
Registered: 12-2000
Posted on Saturday, November 25, 2006 - 12:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are there any supposed sterotypical national behaviours here?
Are the nationalities relevant?
The faith of the Moslem?
Beroean (Beroean)
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Username: Beroean

Post Number: 1045
Registered: 10-2001
Posted on Saturday, November 25, 2006 - 2:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are there any supposed sterotypical national behaviours here? Noish
Are the nationalities relevant? Yes
The faith of the Moslem? Noish
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Username: Bentarm

Post Number: 969
Registered: 6-2001
Posted on Monday, November 27, 2006 - 12:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A particular moslem? One that we're likely to have heard of? Mohammed? Saladin?
Is it relevant who "they" are? Just people in general? All people who were likely to express an opinion on who did it?

A particular Scot? One that we're likely to have heard of? Lister? Watt? Flemming? AA Milne? Irvine Welsh? Lorraine Kelly?

A particular German? One that we're likely to have heard of? Grazia? Angela Merkel? Dietmar Feenwelt?
Beroean (Beroean)
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Username: Beroean

Post Number: 1047
Registered: 10-2001
Posted on Monday, November 27, 2006 - 1:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A particular moslem? yes
One that we're likely to have heard of? Some of you will have - likely you John
Mohammed? Saladin? No to both
Is it relevant who "they" are? Yes
Just people in general? Yope
All people who were likely to express an opinion on who did it? No but most

A particular Scot? Yes
One that we're likely to have heard of? Probably not
Lister? Watt? Flemming? AA Milne? Irvine Welsh? Lorraine Kelly? No to all

A particular German? Yes
One that we're likely to have heard of? Yope

Grazia? Angela Merkel? Dietmar Feenwelt? No to all
Cookie (Cookie)
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Username: Cookie

Post Number: 91
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, November 27, 2006 - 3:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That particular german: Could we have heard of him because he is: scientist? artist? politician? male or female?
Beroean (Beroean)
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Username: Beroean

Post Number: 1048
Registered: 10-2001
Posted on Monday, November 27, 2006 - 5:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That particular german: Could we have heard of him because he is: Yes
scientist? artist? politician? No to these
male or female? Male
Cookie (Cookie)
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Username: Cookie

Post Number: 96
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, November 27, 2006 - 6:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Can we know him from television?
Wunderland (Wunderland)
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Username: Wunderland

Post Number: 1357
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Monday, November 27, 2006 - 8:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Okay, time to invoke the LTPF List of Occupations.
Is the German:
artistic/musical/writer?
Banking/financial/real estate?
Clerical/Administrative?
Computer related / Hardware ?
Construction / Craftsman ?
Education / Academic Research ?
Entertainment / Media ?
Executive / Management ?
Hospitality / Travel ?
Legal Services ?
Manufacturing / Distributions ?
Medical / Health Services ?
Politics / Government / Military ?
Sales / Marketing ?
Technical / Science / Engineering ?
Teaching / Child care?
Transportation ?
Food Service ?
Sports?
Entertainment?
Jailbird / Criminal?
Religion?
Beroean (Beroean)
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Username: Beroean

Post Number: 1049
Registered: 10-2001
Posted on Monday, November 27, 2006 - 9:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Okay, time to invoke the LTPF List of Occupations. Good idea

Is the German:

artistic/musical/writer? No
Banking/financial/real estate? No
Clerical/Administrative? No
Computer related Yes
Hardware No
Construction / Craftsman ? No
Education / Academic Research ? Yope
Entertainment / Media ? Yope
Executive / Management ? No
Hospitality / Travel ? No
Legal Services ? No
Manufacturing / Distributions ? Noish
Medical / Health Services ? No
Politics / Government / Military ? No
Sales / Marketing ? No
Technical / Science / Engineering ? Yesish
Teaching / Child care? No
Transportation ? No
Food Service ? No
Sports? Yope
Entertainment? Yope
Jailbird / Criminal? No
Religion? No
Klang (Klang)
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Username: Klang

Post Number: 42
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 4:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

does the answer lie DEEP within?
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Username: Bentarm

Post Number: 971
Registered: 6-2001
Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 5:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I was just thinking exactly the same thing Klang.

Is the German called Jerry? or Hun? or Bosch? Or... something like that, anyway.
Beroean (Beroean)
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Username: Beroean

Post Number: 1050
Registered: 10-2001
Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 6:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Klang
does the answer lie DEEP within? Very Good!

Bentarm
Is the German called Jerry? or Hun? or Bosch? No
Or... something like that, anyway. Yes John!
Cookie (Cookie)
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Username: Cookie

Post Number: 108
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 1:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a kind of word-joke?
Is calculating involved?
Or the sense of life?
Is the puzzle based on a fictional story?
Beroean (Beroean)
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Username: Beroean

Post Number: 1051
Registered: 10-2001
Posted on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 2:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cookie
Is it a kind of word-joke? not really
Is calculating involved? Yesish but could be misleading
Or the sense of life?
Is the puzzle based on a fictional story? No its all based on facts

perhaps Klang or Bentarm could assist Cookie here?
Klang (Klang)
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Username: Klang

Post Number: 43
Registered: 7-2006
Posted on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 2:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ahem, no time to help here...
They started at 2pm (UK time)!
I'll go and check,
cheers
Cookie (Cookie)
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Username: Cookie

Post Number: 111
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 3:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The "it" the german does, is it something from everyday-life? Like cooking a meal?
Is the german the only one who does "it"?
Beroean (Beroean)
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Username: Beroean

Post Number: 1052
Registered: 10-2001
Posted on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 5:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The "it" the german does, is it something from everyday-life? Yope
Like cooking a meal? A bit more specialist than that
Is the german the only one who does "it"? Good question - I'm not certain - Maybe not but he is the best at it
Cookie (Cookie)
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Username: Cookie

Post Number: 119
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, December 01, 2006 - 1:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is speed involved? Driving a car? Computer games?
Is the german world champion in something?
Beroean (Beroean)
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Username: Beroean

Post Number: 1053
Registered: 10-2001
Posted on Friday, December 01, 2006 - 1:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is speed involved? Yesish
Driving a car? No
Computer games? Yope
Is the german world champion in something? Yesish
Cookie (Cookie)
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Username: Cookie

Post Number: 124
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, December 01, 2006 - 2:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The german can do something very fast?
A scot said that it can't be done at all?
Is music involved?
Is the internet involved?
Beroean (Beroean)
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Username: Beroean

Post Number: 1054
Registered: 10-2001
Posted on Friday, December 01, 2006 - 5:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The german can do something very fast? Yes but that could be very misleading
A scot said that it can't be done at all? Yes
Is music involved? No
Is the internet involved? Not directly (but you can learn about it all from the internet)
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Username: Tobasi

Post Number: 276
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 12:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Beroean, is this puzzle about chess (once again)?
Beroean (Beroean)
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Username: Beroean

Post Number: 1055
Registered: 10-2001
Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 5:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Tobias!

Hi Beroean, is this puzzle about chess (once again)? Yes of course! :-)
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Username: Tobasi

Post Number: 279
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Sunday, December 03, 2006 - 11:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, I don't know too much about chess, I only play 'Go' occasionally. But I seem to give the impression that I like chess, given the number of people who offered me a chessboard...
Are the statements about the match human versus machine?
Beroean (Beroean)
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Username: Beroean

Post Number: 1056
Registered: 10-2001
Posted on Sunday, December 03, 2006 - 2:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the statements about the match human versus machine? Yes!
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Username: Tobasi

Post Number: 282
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Monday, December 04, 2006 - 6:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the 'it' of your statement refers to:
to construct a chess machine/computer able to beat a human? to beat the world champion?
Is the german working on the Deep Fritz chess computer (is it called like this)?
Beroean (Beroean)
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Username: Beroean

Post Number: 1057
Registered: 10-2001
Posted on Monday, December 04, 2006 - 7:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the 'it' of your statement refers to:
to construct a chess machine/computer able to beat a human? Not exactly but ...

to beat the world champion? beating the best players is involved, yes

Is the german working on the Deep Fritz chess computer No but...

(is it called like this)? Yes

Well done - you are completely on the right track but you still need to find the lateral twist

Who could be the Moslem and the Scot - does anyone know?
Mani (Mani)
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Username: Mani

Post Number: 213
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Tuesday, December 05, 2006 - 5:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, I've seen pictures of that purported 18th century chess-playing robot. So is the 'it' "to create a robot that can play chess"? Or "to create a machine that can play chess"?

Perhaps the scotsman was some pioneer in robotics/computers: Charles Babbage?
Mani (Mani)
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Username: Mani

Post Number: 214
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Tuesday, December 05, 2006 - 5:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the German guy own a factory?
Beroean (Beroean)
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Username: Beroean

Post Number: 1058
Registered: 10-2001
Posted on Tuesday, December 05, 2006 - 9:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, I've seen pictures of that purported 18th century chess-playing robot. Very good - what does it look like?
So is the 'it' "to create a robot that can play chess"? No (not quite but almost)
Or "to create a machine that can play chess"? No (not quite but almost)

Perhaps the scotsman was some pioneer in robotics/computers: Charles Babbage? Good idea but no

Does the German guy own a factory? No

You are almost there - don't give up. I am tempted to say that you have done enough but you might want the satisfaction of deciding what "it" is by thinking about the picture you have seen
Mani (Mani)
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Username: Mani

Post Number: 217
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Tuesday, December 05, 2006 - 11:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh, I don't remember exactly what the picture was like, it was like 15 years ago when I was 13 and read some book about chess. But as I recall the general explaination about how the thing worked was that some good chess player was sitting hidden in a box below the chess board, and he would be able to see or know the movements of the pieces somehow (don't ask me how) and then he would control from there a arabianish doll-like quasi-robot figure which would play the pieces. But I may remember it wrongly. But I'm sure the picture is to be found just a google-search away from here...

And of course the player behind this magic-trick robot would have had to be pretty good at the game -- as I remembered it the 'robot' became pretty famous since it had beaten some really good players.

Perhaps the thing that the scotsman thought could never be done was to beat a machine at chess?

And perhaps the German guy is you?
Beroean (Beroean)
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Username: Beroean

Post Number: 1059
Registered: 10-2001
Posted on Tuesday, December 05, 2006 - 5:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

In the 18th century they believed a Moslem did it
In the 20th century a Scot said it could never be done
In the 21st century a German does it regularly


Oh, I don't remember exactly what the picture was like, it was like 15 years ago when I was 13 and read some book about chess. But as I recall the general explaination about how the thing worked was that some good chess player was sitting hidden in a box below the chess board, and he would be able to see or know the movements of the pieces somehow (don't ask me how) and then he would control from there a arabianish doll-like quasi-robot figure which would play the pieces. But I may remember it wrongly
You have a very good memory!


But I'm sure the picture is to be found just a google-search away from here...
Try this one….

Arabianish Doll-Like Quasi-Robot Figure

And of course the player behind this magic-trick robot would have had to be pretty good at the game -- as I remembered it the 'robot' became pretty famous since it had beaten some really good players.
100%

Perhaps the thing that the scotsman thought could never be done was to beat a machine at chess? Try adjusting that equation slightly

And perhaps the German guy is you?
In one respect I wish it was but the only problem is that I am English born and bred, oh, and also the fact that....

Almost there!
Cookie (Cookie)
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Username: Cookie

Post Number: 147
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, December 05, 2006 - 5:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

They thought a moslem built a machine that can beat a human in chess. (But it was a fake)
A scotsman said that it is impossible that a machine beats a human in chess.
An a German builts such machines regularly? That is where my idea starts to sound strange.
Mani (Mani)
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Username: Mani

Post Number: 218
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Tuesday, December 05, 2006 - 5:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the Moslem human? adult? male? Or is the Moslem=the Turk=the Chess-playing Automaton "Turk"?

If the latter, adjust the equation as follows:
In the 18th century they thought a chess-playing-machine, "the Turk", could beat a human being?
Sometime in the 20th century some scotsman though a chess-playing machine would never beat a human being?
And now in the 21th century... etc.

Or perhaps exchange "human chess grandmaster" for "human being" in the above.
Beroean (Beroean)
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Username: Beroean

Post Number: 1060
Registered: 10-2001
Posted on Tuesday, December 05, 2006 - 6:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cookie

They thought a moslem built a machine that can beat a human in chess. Yope
(But it was a fake) Yes

A scotsman said that it is impossible that a machine beats a human in chess. Yes

An a German builts such machines regularly? No
That is where my idea starts to sound strange. but you are getting there


Mani
Is the Moslem human? No
adult? male?
Or is the Moslem=the Turk=the Chess-playing Automaton "Turk"? YES

If the latter, adjust the equation as follows:
In the 18th century they thought a chess-playing-machine, "the Turk", could beat a human being? Yes

Sometime in the 20th century some scotsman though a chess-playing machine would never beat a human being? Yesish – thought that they could never beat the best humans (Grand Masters

And now in the 21th century... etc.

Or perhaps exchange "human chess grandmaster" for "human being" in the above. Yes

One more step to finish the job
Mani (Mani)
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Username: Mani

Post Number: 220
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Wednesday, December 06, 2006 - 8:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

One more step: do you mean the fact that the German is a computer, Deep Fritz or Deep Blue or something? Or shall we figure out who the Scot is too?
Beroean (Beroean)
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Username: Beroean

Post Number: 1061
Registered: 10-2001
Posted on Wednesday, December 06, 2006 - 9:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

One more step: do you mean the fact that the German is a computer, Deep Fritz or Deep Blue or something? Yes

Or shall we figure out who the Scot is too? If you can do that you'd be very clever / knowledgable! I don't expect you to - it's the least well known part of the puzzle (unless you are a chess nerd like me). I'll spoyle later
Beroean (Beroean)
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Username: Beroean

Post Number: 1062
Registered: 10-2001
Posted on Wednesday, December 06, 2006 - 8:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

****************** SPOILER *********************

In the 18th century they believed a Moslem did it
In the 20th century a Scot said it could never be done
In the 21st century a German does it regularly


“It” = a machine / computer capable of beating the best humans at the game of chess.

The 18th century Moslem was an elaborate hoax called “The Turk”


The Turk

The 20th century Scot was International Chess Master, David Levy

David Levy

The 21st century German is a German computer programme / program called “Fritz” and the most powerful version is called “Deep Fritz”

FRITZ

In the last few days Fritz beat the current World Champion, Vladamir Kramnik 4 – 2 (representing 4 draws and two wins for Firtz)

Fritz 4 – 2 Kramnik

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