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Superman (Superman)
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Post Number: 4
Registered: 2-2007
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 2:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If only he'd known ...
Superman (Superman)
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Post Number: 5
Registered: 2-2007
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 2:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Also ... my older puzzles (about midway up the page) have not seen much daylight ... PLEASE take a look at them!!!
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 23
Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 2:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Lets start with the usual

He - Human? Adult? Male?

Did a misfortune befall him because he had a lack of knowledge of something? If not him, a family memeber? friend? work colleague?

How was he/they impacted? Financally? physically? emotionally? other?

Did his lack of knowledge impact on 1 person? less than 10? less than 50? less than 100? more?
~damia~ (~damia~)
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Post Number: 165
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 4:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

does his job matter? any other relevant individuals? any vehicles? any crimes?
Rufus (Rufus)
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Post Number: 8
Registered: 2-2007
Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 10:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it a positive impact or negative for not knowing something?

Is this a recent issue, or is this relevant?

Is geographic location relevant?
Superman (Superman)
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Post Number: 6
Registered: 2-2007
Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 4:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Lets start with the usual

He - Human? Adult? Male? Yes to all

Did a misfortune befall him because he had a lack of knowledge of something? Not him If not him, a family memeber? friend? work colleague? None of these

How was he/they impacted? Financally? physically? emotionally? other? Physically and emotionally

Did his lack of knowledge impact on 1 person? less than 10? less than 50? less than 100? more?
At least one

does his job matter? No any other relevant individuals? Yes any vehicles? No any crimes? Yes

Was it a positive impact or negative for not knowing something?
Negative
Is this a recent issue, or is this relevant?
Irrelevant
Is geographic location relevant?
No
Eli (Eli)
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Post Number: 3
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, February 15, 2007 - 4:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he know the person(s) that was affected by this?
Did he commit the crime?
Are we talking about one crime? More than one?
Did he have the power to change the outcome if he had had the knowledge?
Where the victims killed? injured?
The emotional impact, was that fear? shock? grief?
Superman (Superman)
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Post Number: 7
Registered: 2-2007
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 3:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he know the person(s) that was affected by this? Yes
Did he commit the crime? Yes
Are we talking about one crime? One crime More than one?
Did he have the power to change the outcome if he had had the knowledge? Well, he always did, he chose to commit the crime ... mabye a bit more specific?
Where the victims killed? injured? One was killed
The emotional impact, was that fear? shock? grief? Probably shock and grief
Eli (Eli)
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Post Number: 4
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 3:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant what crime he committed?
That knowledge he didn't have - did he ought to have known?
Did something out of the ordinary happen?
Is there anything at all relevant about his person? If so;
education?
physical appearance?
hobbies?
background?
disabilities?
other?
Was the outcome of his crime what he expected (except for the "mishap" of his aquaintance being killed, that is)?
Superman (Superman)
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Post Number: 8
Registered: 2-2007
Posted on Friday, February 16, 2007 - 11:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant what crime he committed? Yes
That knowledge he didn't have - did he ought to have known? Yes
Did something out of the ordinary happen? Yes
Is there anything at all relevant about his person? What person?If so;
education?
physical appearance?
hobbies?
background?
disabilities?
other?
Was the outcome of his crime what he expected (except for the "mishap" of his aquaintance being killed, that is)? Yes
~damia~ (~damia~)
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Post Number: 169
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 9:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is there 1 other relevant person? 2? 3? 4? 5?

are the other(s) fellow criminal(s)? victim(s)?

is the crime a bank robbery? other robbery? mugging? violent?
Superman (Superman)
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Post Number: 17
Registered: 2-2007
Posted on Monday, February 19, 2007 - 6:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is there 1 other relevant person? 2? 3? 4? 5? three

are the other(s) fellow criminal(s)? victim(s)?
one is a victim

is the crime a bank robbery? other robbery? Neither mugging? No violent? violent
~damia~ (~damia~)
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Post Number: 171
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 8:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

so person 1 is the criminal
person 2 is the victim? who is dead? are they adult? human? male?
is person 3 and 4 adult? human? male? are they witnesses?

do any of their jobs matter? if so person 2s? 3? 4?
Eli (Eli)
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Post Number: 5
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, February 21, 2007 - 8:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there anything at all relevant about his person? What person?If so;
education?
physical appearance?
hobbies?
background?
disabilities?
other?


I was thinking of the man who should have known, the main person of this story. Is there anything relevant about him?
Superman (Superman)
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Post Number: 20
Registered: 2-2007
Posted on Thursday, February 22, 2007 - 9:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

so person 1 is the criminal Sure
person 2 is the victim? Sure who is dead? Yes are they They? adult? human? male?
Yes to all
is person 3 and 4 adult? Yes for both human?
Yes for both male? No for both are they witnesses? Irr

do any of their jobs matter? if so person 2s? 3? 4? Only that of person 2

Is there anything at all relevant about his person? What person?If so;
education? No
physical appearance? no
hobbies? No
background? Yes, by one definition
disabilities? Yesish
other? Yes

I was thinking of the man who should have known, the main person of this story. Is there anything relevant about him? see above
~damia~ (~damia~)
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Post Number: 178
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Thursday, February 22, 2007 - 10:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

are either of the females related to either of the males? are any of them related? husband/wife?

is the criminal physically disabled? can he walk? see?

did he kill the victim on purpose? or was it an accident? is the crime simply murder? or another crime apart from killing the man?
Superman (Superman)
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Post Number: 26
Registered: 2-2007
Posted on Friday, February 23, 2007 - 4:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

are either of the females related to either of the males? Yes are any of them related? Yes husband/wife? Yes

is the criminal physically disabled? Yesish can he walk? Yes see? Yes

did he kill the victim on purpose? Yes or was it an accident? no is the crime simply murder? Yes or another crime apart from killing the man? No
Eli (Eli)
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Post Number: 6
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2007 - 7:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, for the job of person 2, the victim.

Does he work indoors? Outdoors? A mix of the two?

Does he work with people?
~damia~ (~damia~)
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Post Number: 185
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2007 - 8:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ok is person 3 related to the murderer? his wife/partner? is person 4?

or is person 3 related to the victom? his wife/partner? or is person 4?

was the victim killed because of money? jealousy? anger? betrayal? any affairs?
Superman (Superman)
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Post Number: 41
Registered: 2-2007
Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2007 - 3:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, for the job of person 2, the victim.

Does he work indoors? Outdoors? A mix of the two? Indoors

Does he work with people? Yope

ok is person 3 related to the murderer? his wife/partner? is person 4?

or is person 3 related to the victom? his wife/partner? or is person 4?

One of them is the criminal's wife, the other is the victim's wife. Irrelevant which.

From now on, for simplicity, can we call them:

Charlie - the criminal, formerly person 1
Victor - the victim, formerly person 2
Camilla - Charlie's wife, formerly 3 or 4
Vicki - the victim's wife, formerly 3 or 4

I'm MUCH better with name labels than number labels. Thanks.


was the victim killed because of money? Noish jealousy? no anger? yes betrayal? no any affairs? no
~damia~ (~damia~)
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Post Number: 195
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2007 - 2:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is Victors job:

artistic/musical/writer?
Banking/financial/real estate?
Clerical/Administrative?
Computer related / Hardware ?
Construction / Craftsman ?
Education / Academic Research ?
Entertainment / Media ?
Executive / Management ?
Hospitality / Travel ?
Legal Services ?
Manufacturing / Distributions ?
Medical / Health Services ?
Politics / Government / Military ?
Sales / Marketing ?
Technical / Science / Engineering ?
Teaching / Child care?
Transportation ?
Food Service ?
Sports?
Entertainment?
Jailbird / Criminal?
Religion?
Superman (Superman)
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Post Number: 45
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Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2007 - 7:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is Victors job:

artistic/musical/writer?
Banking/financial/real estate?
Clerical/Administrative?
Computer related / Hardware ?
Construction / Craftsman ?
Education / Academic Research ?
Entertainment / Media ?
Executive / Management ?
Hospitality / Travel ?
Legal Services ?
Manufacturing / Distributions ?
Medical / Health Services ? This
Politics / Government / Military ?
Sales / Marketing ?
Technical / Science / Engineering ?
Teaching / Child care?
Transportation ?
Food Service ?
Sports?
Entertainment?
Jailbird / Criminal?
Religion?
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2007 - 8:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Victor a doctor? nurse? physio therapist? dentist? If neither of these, does he work with modern medicine? alternative medicine?
Superman (Superman)
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Post Number: 46
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Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2007 - 8:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Victor a doctor? This-ish nurse? physio therapist? dentist? If neither of these, does he work with modern medicine? Modern medicine alternative medicine?
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2007 - 9:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

GP? Surgeon? Other?
Superman (Superman)
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Post Number: 47
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Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2007 - 9:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

GP? Surgeon? Other? surgeon
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2007 - 9:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it enough to know he's a surgeon? Or do we need to find out what type of surgeon he is?
~damia~ (~damia~)
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Post Number: 198
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2007 - 9:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did victor operate on charlie? camilla? vicki? does he mess it up? is he a plastic surgeon?
Superman (Superman)
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Post Number: 48
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Posted on Thursday, March 01, 2007 - 3:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it enough to know he's a surgeon? yesish Or do we need to find out what type of surgeon he is? noish

did victor operate on charlie? this camilla? vicki? does he mess it up? No is he a plastic surgeon? No
~damia~ (~damia~)
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Post Number: 203
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Posted on Thursday, March 01, 2007 - 2:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

do we need to know what operation he performed? did he perform it completely successfully? was charlie unhappy that this was the case? had he wanted it to go wrong? had charlie misunderstood exactly what the surgery would do? or was for?
Superman (Superman)
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Post Number: 51
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Posted on Thursday, March 01, 2007 - 6:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

do we need to know what operation he performed? Not really - some are more likely than others, though did he perform it completely successfully? yes was charlie unhappy that this was the case? No had he wanted it to go wrong? No had charlie misunderstood exactly what the surgery would do? no or was for? No
~damia~ (~damia~)
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Post Number: 211
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Posted on Thursday, March 01, 2007 - 8:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

were there any side effects after the surgery? was his anger connected in any way with the surgery? or just with victor?
Superman (Superman)
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Post Number: 52
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Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 3:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

were there any side effects after the surgery? No was his anger connected in any way with the surgery? yes or just with victor? yope
Snoozer (Snoozer)
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Posted on Saturday, March 03, 2007 - 2:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was anything mixed up during surgery? Like what should be done on whom? Wrong limb?
Superman (Superman)
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Post Number: 55
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Posted on Saturday, March 03, 2007 - 3:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was anything mixed up during surgery? Like what should be done on whom? Wrong limb? None
~damia~ (~damia~)
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Posted on Friday, March 09, 2007 - 9:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

had he not wanted the surgery in the first place? had he asked V to pretend to do the surgery?

was it an action of Vs that made C angry? or something he said? something he was?
Superman (Superman)
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Post Number: 72
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Posted on Friday, March 09, 2007 - 1:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

had he not wanted the surgery in the first place? had he asked V to pretend to do the surgery? None

was it an action of Vs that made C angry? Yes or something he said? Yope something he was? No
~damia~ (~damia~)
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Post Number: 249
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Tuesday, March 13, 2007 - 2:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did the action and what he said take place at the same time? did the action take place before the surgery? during? after? whilst C was still in hospital after he had left?

did V perform the action in front of C?
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Tuesday, March 13, 2007 - 4:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just for clarification and maybe a little personal recap:
Victor performed surgery on Charlie? And the operation was successful? And Charlie understood EXACTLY what was involved? and what the result would be?

Back to his yes-ish disability;
Is he deaf or has reduced hearing? Dyslectic? Colourblind? other?

About the one thing in his background that was relevant. Is it a childhood trauma? something relating to his family? upbringing? cultural background? whether he has children or not?

You said Yope to that Charlie was angry because of something Victor said. Was he maybe angry because of something Victor DIDN'T say?
Superman (Superman)
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Post Number: 78
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Posted on Monday, March 19, 2007 - 3:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did the action and what he said take place at the same time? NO did the action take place before the surgery? during? after? After whilst C was still in hospital after he had left? After he left

did V perform the action in front of C? Yes

Victor performed surgery on Charlie? Yes And the operation was successful? Yes And Charlie understood EXACTLY what was involved? Yes and what the result would be? Yes

Back to his yes-ish disability;
Is he deaf or has reduced hearing? Dyslectic? Colourblind? other? Other

About the one thing in his background that was relevant. Is it a childhood trauma? No something relating to his family? Mabye upbringing? No cultural background? No whether he has children or not? This is another one, I guess we have two

You said Yope to that Charlie was angry because of something Victor said. Was he maybe angry because of something Victor DIDN'T say? Yesish, but there is something that he actually said that's relevant
~damia~ (~damia~)
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Post Number: 258
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Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 9:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was it something he said to C? or something he said to Cs wife? did his wife know about the operation? did she understand exactly what the outcome would be? was it a vasectomy? did V mention it to Cs wife?
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 11:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does his yesish disability affect one of his senses? If so;
hearing?
sight?
touch?
smell?
taste?

Does it affect any other bodily function?
Superman (Superman)
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Post Number: 79
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Posted on Tuesday, March 20, 2007 - 3:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was it something he said to C? Yes or something he said to Cs wife? Mabye this also did his wife know about the operation? irr did she understand exactly what the outcome would be? " was it a vasectomy? no did V mention it to Cs wife? Irr

Does his yesish disability affect one of his senses? no If so;
hearing?
sight?
touch?
smell?
taste?

Does it affect any other bodily function? yes
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2007 - 2:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

About the thing he said, was it something he explained? something about the operation? Did Victor try to persuade Charlie to do something? Also, there is one thing that keeps bugging me about this, with the Yesish to what he said/said not, . Did Victor say something to Charlie, but didn't mention part of it, maybe because he thought Charlie would know because it was something that most adults would know? (Example/possible scenario: Victor talks about the operation, mentions anaesthetic, but doesn't say Charlie will be sleeping througout, because he took it for granted that Charlie knew as most adults would know that)

Then the yesish disability. Does it affect;
some internal organs?
the way he speaks?
the way he walks?
his concentration span?
does he have spasms/fits?
If neither, does it affect;
head?
torso?
lower body?
Superman (Superman)
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Post Number: 85
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Posted on Wednesday, March 21, 2007 - 2:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

About the thing he said, was it something he explained? YES something about the operation? YESish Did Victor try to persuade Charlie to do something? NOish Also, there is one thing that keeps bugging me about this, with the Yesish to what he said/said not, . Did Victor say something to Charlie, but didn't mention part of it, maybe because he thought Charlie would know because it was something that most adults would know? NO (Example/possible scenario: Victor talks about the operation, mentions anaesthetic, but doesn't say Charlie will be sleeping througout, because he took it for granted that Charlie knew as most adults would know that)

Then the yesish disability. Does it affect;
some internal organs? THIS
the way he speaks?
the way he walks?
his concentration span?
does he have spasms/fits?
If neither, does it affect;
head?
torso?
lower body?
Kijam (Kijam)
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Registered: 3-2007
Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 9:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was the surgery to save Charlie's life, or improve it?
was camila aware of the surgery? opposed to the surgery? angry with the result?
did Vickie or Camila work with Victor?
was vickie an acquaintance to camila or charlie prior to the surgery?
is Charlie's physical disability more a result of age? birth defect?
~damia~ (~damia~)
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Post Number: 268
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 9:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is the disibility regarding his heart? liver? kidneys? lungs?

did he say whatever it was before the surgery? during? after?

was what he said and the action he performed after contradicting each other?
Superman (Superman)
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Post Number: 86
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Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 1:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was the surgery to save Charlie's life, or improve it? save it
was camila aware of the surgery? irr opposed to the surgery? angry with the result?
did Vickie or Camila work with Victor? no
was vickie an acquaintance to camila or charlie prior to the surgery? irr
is Charlie's physical disability more a result of age? birth defect? birth defect

is the disibility regarding his heart? liver? kidneys? lungs? could be any, but let's assume heart

did he say whatever it was before the surgery? during? after? after

was what he said and the action he performed after contradicting each other? no
Eli (Eli)
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Post Number: 16
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 4:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was the life saving surgery done to correct the birth defect?
Superman (Superman)
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Post Number: 89
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Posted on Thursday, March 22, 2007 - 9:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was the life saving surgery done to correct the birth defect? YES
Kijam (Kijam)
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Post Number: 5
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Posted on Friday, March 23, 2007 - 2:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

are the heart problems hereditary?
does Charlie have any children?
is Victor's comment about the surgery? C's children? C's wife? V's wife?
Superman (Superman)
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Post Number: 92
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Posted on Friday, March 23, 2007 - 1:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

are the heart problems hereditary? IRR
does Charlie have any children? Yope
is Victor's comment about the surgery? C's children? C's wife? V's wife? I don't understand what you mean .. could you please rephrase?
Eli (Eli)
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Post Number: 19
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Posted on Friday, March 23, 2007 - 2:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

About Yope to children. Is his wife pregnant? Are they adoptive parents? foster parents? Is he a stepfather?
Superman (Superman)
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Post Number: 94
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Posted on Friday, March 23, 2007 - 3:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

About Yope to children. Is his wife pregnant? YES Are they adoptive parents? NO foster parents? NO Is he a stepfather? NO
Eli (Eli)
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Post Number: 21
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Posted on Friday, March 23, 2007 - 3:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So Charlie's wife is pregnant? And he has to go through a life saving surgery to correct a birth defect? After the operation the surgeon, Victor, made a comment/said something that made Charlie angry? And Charlie then killed Victor?

Is the comment about the surgery? Something about Charlie? Charlie's wife? His unbord child? Does it matter what gender the child is? If so, does Charlie know?
Superman (Superman)
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Post Number: 95
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Posted on Friday, March 23, 2007 - 11:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So Charlie's wife is pregnant? YES And he has to go through a life saving surgery to correct a birth defect? YES, if 'he' is Charlie After the operation the surgeon, Victor, made a comment/said something that made Charlie angry? Yope And Charlie then killed Victor? YES

Is the comment about the surgery? YESSomething about Charlie? NO Charlie's wife? NOish His unbord child? YESish Does it matter what gender the child is? NO If so, does Charlie know?
~damia~ (~damia~)
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Post Number: 274
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Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 9:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

does V know Cs wife is pregnant? does he think they should have an abortion? does he caution them that their child could inherit the defect?
Eli (Eli)
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Post Number: 22
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Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 10:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just got an idea. Does Victor tell Charlie that because of the birth defect he was infertile? Which means that the unborn child cannot be his?
Superman (Superman)
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Post Number: 101
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Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 1:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

does V know Cs wife is pregnant? YES does he think they should have an abortion? NO does he caution them that their child could inherit the defect? NO

Just got an idea. Does Victor tell Charlie that because of the birth defect he was infertile? NO Which means that the unborn child cannot be his? NO

But good idea ...
Eli (Eli)
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Post Number: 25
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Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 2:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just to clarify; Victor makes one? comment, that is about the surgery Charlie just have been through and also sort of (yesish) about his unborn child?
Superman (Superman)
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Post Number: 103
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Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 10:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just to clarify; Victor makes one? YES comment,Not exactly that is about the surgery Charlie just have been through YES and also sort of (yesish) about his unborn child? YES
~damia~ (~damia~)
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Post Number: 278
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Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 10:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is the baby Cs? does Vs sort of comment make C think the child can't be his? or does V suggest the child may not be his?
Eli (Eli)
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Post Number: 28
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Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 11:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

(Hmmm, not exactly comment???) But he does say something to Charlie? And that one single thing is both about the surgery and sort of about the child?

Does he talk about something that happened during surgery? Before? After? Something related to his birth defect? Is it relevant if his wife was present during the conversation? If so, was she? Did the surgery result in Charlie not being able to have any more children?
Superman (Superman)
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Post Number: 108
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Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 2:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is the baby Cs? NO does Vs sort of comment make C think the child can't be his? NO or does V suggest the child may not be his? NO

(Hmmm, not exactly comment???) But he does say something to Charlie? YES And that one single thing is both about the surgery and sort of about the child? YES

Does he talk about something that happened during surgery? NO Before? NO After? YES Something related to his birth defect? NO Is it relevant if his wife was present during the conversation? NO If so, was she? Did the surgery result in Charlie not being able to have any more children? NO
Superman (Superman)
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Post Number: 109
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Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 2:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

BLOOPER
is the baby Cs? NO

should be "YES"
Eli (Eli)
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Post Number: 29
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Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 3:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the thing that happened after the surgery related to the operating Charlie went through? Not related at all?

Did it happen to Charlie? Charlie's wife? someone else?
Superman (Superman)
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Post Number: 111
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Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 4:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the thing that happened after the surgery related to the operating Charlie went through? YES Not related at all? NO

Did it happen to Charlie? YES Charlie's wife? someone else?
Eli (Eli)
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Post Number: 31
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Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 4:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Charlie wake up as normal afterwards? Had anything changed about his person? Had Victor seen something and told Charlie? Something that Charlie became angry about?
Superman (Superman)
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Post Number: 112
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Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 11:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Charlie wake up as normal afterwards? YES Had anything changed about his person? YES Had Victor seen something and told Charlie? NO Something that Charlie became angry about? N/A
Eli (Eli)
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Post Number: 33
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Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 10:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok, so something had changed. Would that change happen to everyone that went to that type of surgery? Does it affect is looks? physique? abilities? Is he still able to do everything he did before?
Eli (Eli)
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Post Number: 34
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Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 10:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh, forgot one thing. Is a permanent change?
Superman (Superman)
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Post Number: 116
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Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 1:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Had anything changed about his person? YES

should be "NO"
Eli (Eli)
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Post Number: 37
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Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 2:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So something happened to Charlie after surgery, something that was related to the operation he just had gone through, but it didn't change Charlie. Correct?

Was whatever happened a normal thing? Did Charlie expect it to happen? Did anyone else?
Superman (Superman)
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Post Number: 118
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Posted on Monday, April 02, 2007 - 1:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So something happened to Charlie after surgery, something that was related to the operation he just had gone through, but it didn't change Charlie. Correct? YES

Was whatever happened a normal thing? NO Did Charlie expect it to happen? YES Did anyone else? Mabye
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Monday, April 02, 2007 - 9:22 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Charlie angry about the change, even though he expected it?
Superman (Superman)
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Post Number: 120
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Posted on Monday, April 02, 2007 - 1:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Charlie angry about the change, even though he expected it? The 'something'? Then
NO
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Monday, April 02, 2007 - 1:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry, my brain is a little confused. He was not changed of course.

It was not a normal thing, but Charlie expected it to happen, and was not angry? I guess I better try to determine what happened.

The thing that happened, did it happen in the operating theatre? hospital ward? in the room where Charlie was? other? Did it have something to do with the tools they used during surgery?
Superman (Superman)
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Post Number: 121
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Posted on Monday, April 02, 2007 - 2:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The thing that happened, did it happen in the operating theatre? NO hospital ward? NO in the room where Charlie was? NO other? YES Did it have something to do with the tools they used during surgery? NO
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Monday, April 02, 2007 - 2:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did it happen in the corridor on his way back from surgery? in a toilet or bath? in the elevator?

Did it happen while he was still unconscious?after he woke up? did it happen only to Charlie? did someone do something to him?
Superman (Superman)
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Post Number: 122
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Posted on Monday, April 02, 2007 - 2:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did it happen in the corridor on his way back from surgery? NO in a toilet or bath? NO in the elevator? NO

Did it happen while he was still unconscious?NO after he woke up? YES did it happen only to Charlie? YES did someone do something to him? NO
Eli (Eli)
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Post Number: 95
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Posted on Monday, April 02, 2007 - 3:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Charlie do something to himself? Was there an accident?
Eli (Eli)
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Post Number: 96
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Posted on Monday, April 02, 2007 - 3:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just one more thought - did this 'something' happen while he was still in the hospital? or after he left?
Superman (Superman)
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Post Number: 126
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Posted on Monday, April 02, 2007 - 11:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Charlie do something to himself? NO Was there an accident? NO

Just one more thought - did this 'something' happen while he was still in the hospital? or after he left? Could be either
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 03, 2007 - 8:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The thing that happened to Charlie, was it a good thing? Bad? neutral?
Superman (Superman)
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Post Number: 127
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Posted on Wednesday, April 04, 2007 - 12:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The thing that happened to Charlie, was it a good thing? Bad? neutral? Bad
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 04, 2007 - 10:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Victor in any way involved in what happened to Charlie after surgery?
Superman (Superman)
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Post Number: 128
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Posted on Wednesday, April 04, 2007 - 2:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Victor in any way involved in what happened to Charlie after surgery? Yesish
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2007 - 9:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Vicotr directly involved in what happened? Did he do something that triggered a set of actions that ended in whatever happened to Charlie?
Superman (Superman)
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Post Number: 134
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Posted on Saturday, April 07, 2007 - 11:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Vicotr directly involved in what happened? NO Did he do something that triggered a set of actions that ended in whatever happened to Charlie? NO
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Sunday, April 08, 2007 - 2:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Victor indirectly involved in what happened to Charlie? Was Charlie angry at Victor after the surgery, but before the bad thing happened?
Superman (Superman)
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Post Number: 135
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Posted on Sunday, April 08, 2007 - 2:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Victor indirectly involved in what happened to Charlie? YES Was Charlie angry at Victor after the surgery, but before the bad thing happened? NO
Emeraldink (Emeraldink)
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Posted on Sunday, April 08, 2007 - 4:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are two women related?

Was the surgery necessary at that time or could it be postponed?

Did Charlie loose financially because of improvement in his health?
Superman (Superman)
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Post Number: 136
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Posted on Sunday, April 08, 2007 - 4:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the two women related? NO

Was the surgery necessary at that time or could it be postponed? Necessary at the time

Did Charlie loose financially because of improvement in his health? NO
Emeraldink (Emeraldink)
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Posted on Sunday, April 08, 2007 - 10:22 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Let me recap:
Camilla is pregnant with Charlie's child. Charlie is in urgent need of a surgery to correct a birth defect in his internal organ and to save his life. Victor performs the surgery, successfully. During recovery something bad happens to Charlie. He, and possibly someone else, expected that it might happen. Shortly after Victor makes a comment or a remark and performs an action – a combination of events which angers Charlie. Later Victor dies as a result of a violent crime committed by Charlie. During all this time there is a piece of information that Charlie should have been in possession of, but was not. When he learns it, he regrets something he did ( or did not do ).


How does Vicki figure into this? Is she related to Charlie?

What is it that Charlie would not have done:
marry Camilla?
have children?
commit a crime?
commit this crime in the manner he did?

Do the two men know each other prior to start of Victor's medical treatment of Charlie?

Does Charlie strike ( figuratively speaking ) at Victor right after seeing the action?

Something bad that happened to Charlie after the surgery, was it bad because it happened to Charlie? at that particular time?

Does Victor discover something during surgery that contradicts the common knowledge about Charlie's family? his prior life?
Emeraldink (Emeraldink)
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Posted on Sunday, April 08, 2007 - 10:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Let me recap:
Camilla is pregnant with Charlie's child. Charlie is in urgent need of a surgery to correct a birth defect in his internal organ and to save his life. Victor performs the surgery, successfully. During recovery something bad happens to Charlie. He, and possibly someone else, expected that it might happen. Shortly after Victor makes a comment or a remark and performs an action – a combination of events which angers Charlie. Later Victor dies as a result of a violent crime committed by Charlie. During all this time there is a piece of information that Charlie should have been in possession of, but was not. When he learns it, he regrets something he did ( or did not do ).


How does Vicki figure into this? Is she related to Charlie?

What is it that Charlie would not have done:
marry Camilla?
have children?
commit a crime?
commit this crime in the manner he did?

Do the two men know each other prior to start of Victor's medical treatment of Charlie?

Does Charlie strike ( figuratively speaking ) at Victor right after seeing the action?

Something bad that happened to Charlie after the surgery, was it bad because it happened to Charlie? at that particular time?

Does Victor discover something during surgery that contradicts the common knowledge about Charlie's family? his prior life?
Emeraldink (Emeraldink)
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Posted on Sunday, April 08, 2007 - 10:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oops! That was "Reload".
Could Moderator please remove one of the duplicate posts and this note? Thanks.
Superman (Superman)
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Posted on Sunday, April 08, 2007 - 6:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Let me recap:
Camilla is pregnant with Charlie's child. Charlie is in urgent need of a surgery to correct a birth defect in his internal organ and to save his life. Victor performs the surgery, successfully. During recovery something bad happens to Charlie. He, and possibly someone else, expected that it might happen. Shortly after Victor makes a comment or a remark and performs an action – a combination of events which angers Charlie. Later Victor dies as a result of a violent crime committed by Charlie. During all this time there is a piece of information that Charlie should have been in possession of, but was not. When he learns it, he regrets something he did ( or did not do ). NOT exactly

How does Vicki figure into this? Is she related to Charlie? NO

What is it that Charlie would not have done: If what ?
marry Camilla?
have children?
commit a crime?
commit this crime in the manner he did?

Do the two men know each other prior to start of Victor's medical treatment of Charlie? NO

Does Charlie strike ( figuratively speaking ) at Victor right after seeing the action? YES

Something bad that happened to Charlie after the surgery, was it bad because it happened to Charlie? at that particular time? < Thisish

Does Victor discover something during surgery that contradicts the common knowledge about Charlie's family? his prior life? NO; NO
Superman (Superman)
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Post Number: 138
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Posted on Sunday, April 08, 2007 - 6:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By the way, PLEASE check out my other puzzles - especially the "Extraordinary Event" and the Rulebreaker -- I will post hints on them both!!
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Sunday, April 08, 2007 - 8:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would the thing that happened to Charlie be bad if it had happened to someone else? anyone else?
Superman (Superman)
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Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 12:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would the thing that happened to Charlie be bad if it had happened to someone else? YES anyone else? YES
Eli (Eli)
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Post Number: 135
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Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 12:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would the bad thing that happened also be bad if it happened at any other time? would it be bad also if it happened when he had fully recovered?
Superman (Superman)
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Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 12:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would the bad thing that happened also be bad if it happened at any other time? would it be bad also if it happened when he had fully recovered? YES to both
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 1:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The bad thing that happened, was Charlie physically injured? Was he emotionally hurt? Disappointed? Saddened?
Superman (Superman)
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Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 3:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The bad thing that happened, was Charlie physically injured? NO Was he emotionally hurt? Probably not Disappointed? NO Saddened? NO
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 3:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

But the thing made him angry for some reason? Would other people also be angry if it happened to them?
Superman (Superman)
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Posted on Monday, April 09, 2007 - 10:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

*** BLOOPERS ***
Was Vicotr directly involved in what happened? NO should be YES

Would the thing that happened to Charlie be bad if it had happened to someone else? YES anyone else? YES both NO

Would the bad thing that happened also be bad if it happened at any other time? would it be bad also if it happened when he had fully recovered? YES to both NO to the first, still YES to the second, but may lead to FA

The bad thing that happened, was Charlie physically injured? NO Was he emotionally hurt? Probably not should be YES Disappointed? NO Saddened? NO YES

Sorry about all these ...


But the thing made him angry for some reason? YES Would other people also be angry if it happened to them? Probably NOT
Emeraldink (Emeraldink)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 3:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What is it that Charlie would not have done: If what ? if only he'd known...
marry Camilla?
have children?
commit a crime?
commit this crime in the manner he did?
~damia~ (~damia~)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 10:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did someone after the surgery make fun of C?
Superman (Superman)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 12:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What is it that Charlie would not have done: If what ? if only he'd known...
marry Camilla? Still this
have children? "
commit a crime? Not this
commit this crime in the manner he did? "

did someone after the surgery make fun of C? NO
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 12:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there another link with Camilla, besides being his wife? Are either of them or both adopted?
Superman (Superman)
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Is there another link with Camilla, besides being his wife? as in a relationship link? then NO Are either of them or both adopted? Irr
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 1:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Victor tell him something about Camilla? Something he didn't know before, but should have known? If so, was this 'something' obvious?
Superman (Superman)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 2:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Victor tell him something about Camilla? NO Something he didn't know before, but should have known? If so, was this 'something' obvious?
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 2:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Feel I'm going around in circles. Maybe a recap would help. Please??
Superman (Superman)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 3:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

RECAP:

Charlie, the criminal, had heart surgery performed on him by Victor. Later, Victor says something about the surgery, and even later does something that angers Charlie enough that Charlie kills Victor.

Consider:
- Charlie's wife is pregnant. How is this relevant?
- What did Victor say?
- What was the action that angered Charlie?
- Charlie would NOT have killed Victor if he had known something. WHAT???
- How does Vicki, Victor's wife, figure in?
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 4:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks, think I will start from the top.

Is it relevant what gender the child is? Is it relevant that it's his first child? or how far into the pregnancy she is? Is there something about the childbirth he doesn't know about?
Snoozer (Snoozer)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 6:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Charlie the father of the child his wife is carrying? Is it Victor?
Is the surgery a heart transplant? Is it Vicki's heart?
Superman (Superman)
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Is it relevant what gender the child is? NO Is it relevant that it's his first child? YES or how far into the pregnancy she is? NO Is there something about the childbirth he doesn't know about? NO

Is Charlie the father of the child his wife is carrying? YES it Victor?
Is the surgery a heart transplant? YES Is it Vicki's heart? NO
Emeraldink (Emeraldink)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 7:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does it matter whose heart it was?
Did Charlie know?
Are Charlie and Victor of the same generation?
Superman (Superman)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 12:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does it matter whose heart it was? NO, in fact, I should mention that, although we call
it a heart surgery, it could just as well be any life-saving surgery

Did Charlie know? About what?
Are Charlie and Victor of the same generation? Likely but irr
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 3:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Not sure if this has been asked, but has the surgery left Charlie unable to have more children?

Is there something that Charlie does not know - yet? Something he would have known if he had had children already?

So the surgery saved his life, but has it left him less able to take part in his child's life (like he won't be able to take his child out to play/kick ball/play baseball or basket ball, or similar)?
Superman (Superman)
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Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 1:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Not sure if this has been asked, but has the surgery left Charlie unable to have more children? NO

Is there something that Charlie does not know - yet? YES Something he would have known if he had had children already? NO

So the surgery saved his life, but has it left him less able to take part in his child's life (like he won't be able to take his child out to play/kick ball/play baseball or basket ball, or similar)? NO
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 9:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The thing he didn't know is? or is not? related to the pregnancy?
~damia~ (~damia~)
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Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 9:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

does Vicki speak to either of the Cs? do anything to/for either of the Cs? is her job relevant? has she had children? is this relevant?
Superman (Superman)
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Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 2:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The thing he didn't know is? Is or is not? related to the pregnancy?

does Vicki speak to either of the Cs? NO do anything to/for either of the Cs? NO is her job relevant? NO has she had children? NO is this relevant? YES
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 2:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would the same thing apply if another woman than Camilla was pregnant with his first child?

Does Charlie know? know about? Vicki? Does Victor say something to his wife about having children that Charlie overhears?
Superman (Superman)
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Would the same thing apply if another woman than Camilla was pregnant with his first child? Mabye

Does Charlie know? know about? Vicki? I don't understand Does Victor say something to his wife about having children that Charlie overhears? NO
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 3:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I was trying to find out if there might be a link between Charlie and Vicki, ie does he know her personally or know about her, for instance that he knows Victor is married, but has never met his wife??

Regarding that maybe. Is there something about Camilla that makes it so? I mean, if another woman had the same characteristics, would the same apply?
Superman (Superman)
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I was trying to find out if there might be a link between Charlie and Vicki, ie does he know her personally or know about her NO, for instance that he knows Victor is married NO, but has never met his wife??

Regarding that maybe. Is there something about Camilla that makes it so? YES I mean, if another woman had the same characteristics, would the same apply? YES
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 4:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just to clarify. Charlie doesn't even know that Vickie exists, but yet the fact that she has no children is relevant for this story. Have I understood it correctly?

This characteristic that Camilla has, is it relevant for the scenario to work?
Superman (Superman)
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Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 4:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just to clarify. Charlie doesn't even know that Vickie exists Actually, he DOES, sorry, BLOOPER on my part, but yet the fact that she has no children is relevant for this story YES. Have I understood it correctly? YES, except for my mistake

This characteristic that Camilla has, is it relevant for the scenario to work? YES
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2007 - 4:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant how well he knows Vickie?

Is Camilla's characteristic a common one? Is it a physical characteristic? mental? emotional? something in her background? some of her opinions?
Superman (Superman)
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 12:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant how well he knows Vickie? NOish

Is Camilla's characteristic a common one? NO Is it a physical characteristic? < THis mental? emotional? something in her background? some of her opinions?
~damia~ (~damia~)
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 9:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

does Victor talk about Vicki to either of the Cs? mention that she hasn't had children? can't have children? do Camilla and Vicki have anything in common re pregnancy? or childbirth? has Vicki chosen not to have children?
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 9:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does she have a visible disability? an injury? scar?
Superman (Superman)
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does Victor talk about Vicki to either of the Cs? NO mention that she hasn't had children? can't have children? do Camilla and Vicki have anything in common re pregnancy? YES or childbirth? YESish has Vicki chosen not to have children? NOish
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Friday, April 13, 2007 - 2:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You missed my post from 9:47. Please??
Superman (Superman)
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Posted on Saturday, April 14, 2007 - 12:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does she have a visible disability? an injury? scar? NONE
Emeraldink (Emeraldink)
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Posted on Monday, April 16, 2007 - 2:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That "something" that Charlie should have known, is it about Vicki?
Superman (Superman)
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That "something" that Charlie should have known, is it about Vicki? YES
Superman (Superman)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 12:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hint : Camilla and Vicki's common characteristic prohibited them from doing something important
Emeraldink (Emeraldink)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 4:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Having a natural delivery?
Eli (Eli)
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Conceive naturally? Is Camilla pregnant through IVF?
Superman (Superman)
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Having a natural delivery? NOish

Conceive naturally? YESish Is Camilla pregnant through IVF? Could you please define this ?
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 9:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Definition of IVF - treatment for couples where one or both have problems conceiving naturally; includes sperm donation, test tube fertilization before implanting in uterus, use of other women's eggs.

You said earlier that the baby was Charlie's, which then excludes the sperm donor option. Am I right? Did they use any of the other options?
~damia~ (~damia~)
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Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 10:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

does Camilla need medical help in order to get pregnant by Charlie? does V suggest that the doctor who helped her get pregnant may have made a mistake? used another mans donation?
Superman (Superman)
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Posted on Thursday, April 19, 2007 - 10:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Definition of IVF - treatment for couples where one or both have problems conceiving naturally; includes sperm donation, test tube fertilization before implanting in uterus, use of other women's eggs.

You said earlier that the baby was Charlie's, which then excludes the sperm donor option. Am I right? YES Did they use any of the other options? NO

does Camilla need medical help in order to get pregnant by Charlie? NO does V suggest that the doctor who helped her get pregnant may have made a mistake? NO used another mans donation? NO
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Friday, April 20, 2007 - 12:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Camilla and Charlie get pregnant the natural way? Did she have fertility enhancers?
Superman (Superman)
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Did Camilla and Charlie get pregnant the natural way? YES Did she have fertility enhancers? NO
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Friday, April 20, 2007 - 3:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the important thing related to pregnancy? childbirth? breastfeeding? anything else related to getting or having children? or is the important thing something else, ie not anything to do with children at all?
Superman (Superman)
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Posted on Friday, April 20, 2007 - 4:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the important thing related to pregnancy? YES childbirth? YES breastfeeding? NO anything else related to getting or having children? YES or is the important thing something else, ie not anything to do with children at all? NO
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Friday, April 20, 2007 - 10:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Anything to do with methods of getting preganant? Of giving birth? What to do while pregnant? Childcare?
If it's not too much trouble could you post a recap? I'm getting confused about who's who etc.
Superman (Superman)
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Anything to do with methods of getting preganant? YES Of giving birth? YESish What to do while pregnant? NO Childcare? NO
If it's not too much trouble could you post a recap? Sure I'm getting confused about who's who etc.
Superman (Superman)
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Posted on Friday, April 20, 2007 - 10:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

RECAP:

Persons involved ===============
Charlie -- the criminal, murders Victor
Camilla -- his pregnant wife
Victor -- a surgeon, murdered by Charlie
Vicki -- Victor's wife

Victor performs heart surgery on Charlie. Later, he makes a comment about the surgery, and even later performs an action, for which Charlie kills him. At the time of the murder, Camilla is pregnant with Charlie's first child. Camilla shares a characteristic related to pregnancy with Vicki, Victor's wife.

Consider:

-- What is the link ?? How are the surgery, the pregnancy, and the murder all connected ??

-- What common characteristic do Camilla and Vicki share ??

-- THE PUZZLE STATEMENT

-- What was the thing said, and what action of Victor's prompted Charlie to kill him ??
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Friday, April 20, 2007 - 10:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does Victor say something about Camilla or Vicki? Something about how the surgery went?
Is this characteristic that the two women share a medical thing? A disease? A hereditary condition? Is it a bad thing? Would you be able to tell they had this charateristic if they had never had children? By looking at them? By giving them a medical examination?
Superman (Superman)
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Posted on Friday, April 20, 2007 - 11:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does Victor say something about Camilla or Vicki? NO Something about how the surgery went? NO
Is this characteristic that the two women share a medical thing? YES A disease? NOish A hereditary condition? YES Is it a bad thing? Depends Would you be able to tell they had this charateristic if they had never had children? Mabye By looking at them? NO By giving them a medical examination? Probably
Booklover (Booklover)
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Posted on Saturday, April 21, 2007 - 3:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm not sure what to ask! We know Charlie is a criminal. Any other criminals?Camilla? Victor? Vicki?

I can't remember--is Vicki pregnant too? By Charlie, maybe?

Do two women share same blood type?

I'll think of more questions--this has me stumped!
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Saturday, April 21, 2007 - 3:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the charaterisitc something that would affect their ability to conceive a child? Their ability to have a natural birth? Would it affect the child itself? Any disabilities involved? Would this charateristic affect their lives at all if they nevr had children?
Booklover (Booklover)
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Posted on Saturday, April 21, 2007 - 4:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Charlie a criminal before he killed Victor? If so, is it important what type of criminal Charlie is? If so, what type is he: robber, arsonist, murderer (before he killed Victor), Other?

If he was a criminal before the murder, does Victor know Charlie is a criminal? Does Camilla?Vicki? Is it important that anyone know he is a criminal?

Does Charlie kill Victor for something he says? Does? Both?

After killing Victor, does Charlie find out something about his relationship with Victor--father/son? brothers? Does he find out that Camilla is related to him? Vicki? Is this important?
Superman (Superman)
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Posted on Saturday, April 21, 2007 - 5:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm not sure what to ask! We know Charlie is a criminal. Any other criminals?Camilla? Victor? Vicki? NO

I can't remember--is Vicki pregnant too? YES By Charlie, maybe? NO

Do two women share same blood type? Irr

I'll think of more questions--this has me stumped! You have much of it, though !


Is the charaterisitc something that would affect their ability to conceive a child? YES Their ability to have a natural birth? YES, because of the conception issue Would it affect the child itself? NO Any disabilities involved? NO Would this charateristic affect their lives at all if they nevr had children? Mabye


Was Charlie a criminal before he killed Victor? NO If so, is it important what type of criminal Charlie is? If so, what type is he: robber, arsonist, murderer (before he killed Victor), Other?

If he was a criminal before the murder, does Victor know Charlie is a criminal? Does Camilla?Vicki? Is it important that anyone know he is a criminal?

Does Charlie kill Victor for something he says? NOish Does? YES Both?

After killing Victor, does Charlie find out something about his relationship with Victor--father/son? NO brothers? NO Does he find out that Camilla is related to him? NO Vicki? NO Is this important? What he finds out, or the relationships between the people ?
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Saturday, April 21, 2007 - 5:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry,now I'm confused about the puzzle statement. Is the idea that if Charlie had known something, he wouldn't have killed Victor? Is that something the characteristic that the women share? Or something else?
The action that Victor did: did it cause harm to Charlie? Physical harm? Mental harm? Did it cause harm to Camilla or Vicki? Was it connected to either of the women? If so, which one?
Superman (Superman)
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Posted on Saturday, April 21, 2007 - 5:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry,now I'm confused about the puzzle statement. Is the idea that if Charlie had known something, he wouldn't have killed Victor? YES Is that something the characteristic that the women share? NO Or something else? YES
The action that Victor did: did it cause harm to Charlie? Physical harm? NO Mental harm? YES Did it cause harm to Camilla or Vicki? NO Was it connected to either of the women? YES If so, which one? Vicki
Booklover (Booklover)
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Posted on Saturday, April 21, 2007 - 8:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does either of the women have endometriosis--is this what they share?

Is this their first try and pregnancy, or have either had a miscarriage? Camilla? Vicki?

Is either woman having problems with her pregnancy?--which one, if so.

Is either woman carrying a stillborn baby by any chance?
Booklover (Booklover)
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Posted on Saturday, April 21, 2007 - 8:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Whatever Victor said--was it said in a threatening manner? As a joke?

Whatever Victor did--did Charlie fear for his life--did he (Charlie) think he was acting in self-defense?

Would this murder be a "cut and dry" (easy) case for a jury, or would they have to really deliberate on what Charlie's punishment should be?
Superman (Superman)
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Posted on Saturday, April 21, 2007 - 9:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does either of the women have endometriosis--is this what they share? NO

Is this their first try and pregnancy NO, or have either had a miscarriage? YES, both Camilla? Vicki?

Is either woman having problems with her pregnancy?--which one, if so. Neither

Is either woman carrying a stillborn baby by any chance? NO


Whatever Victor said--was it said in a threatening manner? NO As a joke? NO

Whatever Victor did--did Charlie fear for his life--did he (Charlie) think he was acting in self-defense? NO

Would this murder be a "cut and dry" (easy) case for a jury, or would they have to really deliberate on what Charlie's punishment should be? There would probably be debate as to the punishment, but this was a clear-cut case of murder
Emeraldink (Emeraldink)
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Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 12:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Could Victor's comment be considered unprofessional? his action?
Superman (Superman)
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Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 1:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Could Victor's comment be considered unprofessional? Perhaps his action? NO
Superman (Superman)
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Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 1:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

on second thought ...

that's a NO to your first question
Snoozer (Snoozer)
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Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 5:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does Victor's comment concern: The age of Charlie or Camilla? Risks due to the surgery or his heart condition? The number of children they already have?
Does Victor suggest that Charlie and/or Camilla should do something? Related to pregnancy? Vasectomy?
Booklover (Booklover)
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Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 2:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Should we focus first on Camilla and Vicki's shared characteristic--it does deal with their conception problems and delivery problems, correct?

Did the problem with conception come from the Camilla? Charlie? Vicki? Victor?

Is the fact that both Camilla and Vicki have miscarriages important?

If so,do either woman have some sort of abnormality to their wombs?

Did either woman have to take blood thinners to conceive this time? Does either woman have gestational diabetes? Are the pregancy problem questions getting off track or are they helpful?

Is either woman carrying twins, and will either need a c-section?

Finally, how many children do Charlie/Camilla and Victor/Vicki presently have excluding the one they are carrying. Are the ages important--if so, please tell us the ages.

Sorry if I have repeated a question someone else has asked--just trying to sort it all out!
Superman (Superman)
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Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 6:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does Victor's comment concern: The age of Charlie or Camilla? NO Risks due to the surgery or his heart condition? NO The number of children they already have? YESish
Does Victor suggest that Charlie and/or Camilla should do something? YES Related to pregnancy? YES Vasectomy? NO


Should we focus first on Camilla and Vicki's shared characteristic--it does deal with their conception problems and delivery problems, correct? Well, there's something else you should probably figure out which will make their characteristic make more sense. But you are correct about their characteristic.

Did the problem with conception come from the Camilla? Charlie? Vicki? Victor? All but irr, you really needn't figure out the exact characteristic, just what it involves

Is the fact that both Camilla and Vicki have miscarriages important? YES

If so,do either woman have some sort of abnormality to their wombs? YES, see above though

Did either woman have to take blood thinners to conceive this time? Irr Does either woman have gestational diabetes? Irr Are the pregancy problem questions getting off track or are they helpful? See above --- there's still a bit more to be found out, BUT it's actually very general and could apply to a number of specific pregnancy problems

Is either woman carrying twins, and will either need a c-section? Irr to both

Finally, how many children do Charlie/Camilla and Victor/Vicki presently have excluding the one they are carrying. NONE Are the ages important--if so, please tell us the ages.

Sorry if I have repeated a question someone else has asked--just trying to sort it all out! It's fine -- with over 150 posts, it is easy to be confused -- plus you came in later
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 7:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does Victor give Charlie advice on how to conceive a child? How to avoid another miscarriage? Does he say something along the lines of "This really worked for Vicki and me...maybe you should try it"? Does he tell Charlie something that they should do, or something that they should not do?
Was Victor's action threatening in any way? Did he harm Vicki in any way? Was Vicki angry about this action of Victor's?
Is the fact that both women have had miscarriages connected to their shared characteristic? Do they have some condition that makes it harder to get pregnant? Makes it more likely to have a miscarriage?
Superman (Superman)
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Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 7:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does Victor give Charlie advice on how to conceive a child? NO How to avoid another miscarriage? NO Does he say something along the lines of "This really worked for Vicki and me...maybe you should try it"? NO Does he tell Charlie something that they should do, or something that they should not do? Should
Was Victor's action threatening in any way? To Charlie, it was Did he harm Vicki in any way? NO Was Vicki angry about this action of Victor's? Irr
Is the fact that both women have had miscarriages connected to their shared characteristic? YES Do they have some condition that makes it harder to get pregnant? YES Makes it more likely to have a miscarriage? YES
Booklover (Booklover)
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Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 7:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I personally hope this is not it, but does Victor suggest that Charlie and Camilla terminate the pregnancy?

Also, how far along is Camilla?
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 7:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do we need to know more about the charaterisitc? Or just that it makes it hard to get pregnant and increases the risk of miscarriage?
Th thing that Charlie should have known...was it why Victor said the thing? Why he did the action? Was there a misunderstanding of any kind, where Charlie misinterpreted Victor's action or words?
The thing that Victor says-is it connected to this characteristic? Is Charlie angry because he doesn't want to do the thing Victor tells him to do? Is it about their difficulties in getting pregnant? Their high chances of miscarriage?
Was Victor's action supposed to be threatening? Was it reasonable for Charlie to be upset by it? Was the action in some way connected to the pregnancy? To this condition the woman share?
Superman (Superman)
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Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 8:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I personally hope this is not it, but does Victor suggest that Charlie and Camilla terminate the pregnancy? NO

Also, how far along is Camilla? Last stages, around labour


Do we need to know more about the charaterisitc? NO Or just that it makes it hard to get pregnant and increases the risk of miscarriage? YES
Th thing that Charlie should have known...was it why Victor said the thing? NO Why he did the action? YES Was there a misunderstanding of any kind, where Charlie misinterpreted Victor's action or words? YES
The thing that Victor says-is it connected to this characteristic? YESish Is Charlie angry because he doesn't want to do the thing Victor tells him to do? YES Is it about their difficulties in getting pregnant? NO Their high chances of miscarriage? NO
Was Victor's action supposed to be threatening? NO Was it reasonable for Charlie to be upset by it? I'd say yes, but others might disagree Was the action in some way connected to the pregnancy? YES To this condition the woman share? NOish
Booklover (Booklover)
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Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 10:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are Charlie and Camilla in the hospital already because she is in labor? thinks she is in labor?

We know Charlie had to have a life saving surgery--was this a planned surgery or emergency?

If it was an emergency, was Charlie in the hospital already? at home?

When he came out of surgery did he, by any chance, think that Camilla was dead? in danger? had lost the baby?
Snoozer (Snoozer)
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Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 11:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does Victor know that Camilla is pregnant? Does Charlie know that Victor does not know?
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Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 11:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are Charlie and Camilla in the hospital already because she is in labor? thinks she is in labor?
Either

We know Charlie had to have a life saving surgery--was this a planned surgery or emergency? Irr

If it was an emergency, was Charlie in the hospital already? at home? At what time ?

When he came out of surgery did he, by any chance, think that Camilla was dead? NO in danger? NO had lost the baby? NO
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Posted on Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 11:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does Victor know that Camilla is pregnant? At what time ? Does Charlie know that Victor does not know? "
Emeraldink (Emeraldink)
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Posted on Monday, April 23, 2007 - 7:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Victor at the hospital with Charlie and Camilla when she went into labor? Is this when he performed an action that caused him his life? Was he supposed to deliver Camilla's baby?
Superman (Superman)
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Posted on Monday, April 23, 2007 - 1:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Victor at the hospital with Charlie and Camilla when she went into labor? YES Is this when he performed an action that caused him his life? YES Was he supposed to deliver Camilla's baby? NO
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Monday, April 23, 2007 - 2:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he supposed to do something else in relation to Camilla's labour? Did something go wrong because he did what he did?
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Posted on Monday, April 23, 2007 - 11:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he supposed to do something else in relation to Camilla's labour? NOish Did something go wrong because he did what he did? NO
Booklover (Booklover)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 - 12:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Regarding Camilla and Vicki: will either need a hysterectomy? Was it suggested that Camilla have a hystorectomy?

Before the murder, did Camilla have her baby? lose it? Did Charlie think something had gone wrong with Camilla or the baby? Did he think they were still alive/injured/dead? Did Vicki have her baby? lose it? If either baby was born, did something happen to the baby--stolen, stillborn, switched? other?

At the point of (or after) the murder, had either baby been born? Were their any complications with either birth (if they had been born)?
Superman (Superman)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 - 1:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Regarding Camilla and Vicki: will either need a hysterectomy? NO Was it suggested that Camilla have a hystorectomy? NO

Before the murder, did Camilla have her baby? YES lose it? NO Did Charlie think something had gone wrong with Camilla or the baby? NO Did he think they were still alive/injured/dead? Alive Did Vicki have her baby? YES lose it? NO If either baby was born, did something happen to the baby--stolen, stillborn, switched? other? NONE

At the point of (or after) the murder, had either baby been born? YES Were their any complications with either birth (if they had been born)? NO
Hakkunamatata (Hakkunamatata)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 - 10:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The action victor did, was it related to the complications in pregnancy of the women? Did the action hurt any one? physically? mentally? Whom? Camilla Physically? Camilla Mentally?
Vicki Physically? Vicki Mentally?
Charlie Physically? Charlie Mentally?

Was the action physical over either women? physical on Camilla? physical on Vicki?
Superman (Superman)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 24, 2007 - 10:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The action victor did, was it related to the complications in pregnancy of the women? YESish Did the action hurt any one? NO physically? mentally? Whom? Camilla Physically? Camilla Mentally?
Vicki Physically? Vicki Mentally?
Charlie Physically? Charlie Mentally?

Was the action physical over either women? NOphysical on Camilla? physical on Vicki?
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 9:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Victor in any way, directly? or indirectly? involved in helping with the complications?

If he helped, did he help his own wife first, before Camilla? If so, was Charlie upset about this?
Superman (Superman)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 2:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Victor in any way, directly? or indirectly? involved in helping with the complications? He was NOT helping their complications

If he helped, did he help his own wife first, before Camilla? If so, was Charlie upset about this?
Booklover (Booklover)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 2:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Vicki and Camilla have their babies at the same time? Were they in the same delivery room? Was Charlie with Camilla when she had her baby? Was he in the delivery room? Was Victor with Vicki in the delivery room?

How long did it take the women to have their babies?

Can't remember--Did they have their babies naturally or by c-section?

Did Victor get in the way somehow?
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 3:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Am a bit confused here. The last few postings indicate that Camilla had her baby BEFORE the murder but the recap says that she was pregnant at the time of the murder?? Please clarify.
Superman (Superman)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 10:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Vicki and Camilla have their babies at the same time? YES Were they in the same delivery room? Delivery room meaning 'ward' ? Then YES Was Charlie with Camilla when she had her baby? YES Was he in the delivery room? YES Was Victor with Vicki in the delivery room? YES

Am a bit confused here. The last few postings indicate that Camilla had her baby BEFORE the murder but the recap says that she was pregnant at the time of the murder?? Please clarify. Sorry -- I slipped up ... but Camilla did have her baby BEFORE the murder, not extremely relevant anyway.

How long did it take the women to have their babies? Irr

Can't remember--Did they have their babies naturally or by c-section? Irr

Did Victor get in the way somehow? NO but explore
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 9:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did his actions somehow influence what happened at the births?

When Victor talked to Charlie, did he then delay Charlie so that he couldn't be present when Camilla went into labour?
Superman (Superman)
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Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 2:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did his actions somehow influence what happened at the births? YES

When Victor talked to Charlie, did he then delay Charlie so that he couldn't be present when Camilla went into labour? NO
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 2:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So they were in the same ward, but not the same delivery room, right? Were the babies mixed up? if so, deliberalety?

Did something negative happen during either birth?

Just a thought reg his action, which influenced something that happened at the births. Did his action mean that the hospital put higher priority on Vicki than on Camilla?
Superman (Superman)
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Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 2:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So they were in the same ward, but not the same delivery room, right? YES Were the babies mixed up? NO if so, deliberalety?

Did something negative happen during either birth? YESish

Just a thought reg his action, which influenced something that happened at the births. Did his action mean that the hospital put higher priority on Vicki than on Camilla? NO, in fact, what I meant was that it influenced his own murder.
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 2:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This negative thing that happened during the births, was that also his murder?
Superman (Superman)
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Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 2:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

HINT : The action and the thing said took place almost five years apart. The thing said concerned some non-medical aspect of the surgery ...
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 2:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So he was killed several years after the surgery.....

Non medical;
like hygiene?
who was at the surgery (besides Victor)?
something about the equipment used?
something about Charlie himself?
Superman (Superman)
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Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 2:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So he was killed several years after the surgery..... YES

Non medical;
like hygiene? NO
who was at the surgery (besides Victor)? NO
something about the equipment used? NO
something about Charlie himself? YESish
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 4:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So Victor saves Charlie's life on an operating table, and after the surgery, he says "You should [do something]"? Is this correct? In saying this, is he acting professionally and within his remit as a heart surgeon? Would any heart surgeon be likely to tell Charlie this? (eg "You should give up smoking").

Is the remark an actual instruction to do something? Or does it rather take the form of "You should find that you feel better after a few days"?

Did Charlie feel any anger at the time of the remark? Did he actually do the thing(s) that Victor told him to do? If so, did he do those things right away, while in hospital? Or later?
And if so, did he do something once or over a period of time?

Did Victor know, at the time of the surgery, about Camilla's problem? Had Camilla had a miscarriage before Charlie's surgery? Had Vicki had a miscarriage before the surgery? Does Victor mention a next of kin or a consent form relating to the surgery?

If Victor had not made the remark, but had merely performed the deed five years later, would Charlie still have felt anger towards him? In performing the mystery deed, was Victor acting professionally and within his remit as a surgeon? Was he actually on duty at the time, or was he simply attending the birth of his own child?

Was there any relevant period of time between the two births? Were both children born healthy? Did Charlie have reason to believe, immediately after the birth, that Camilla's life was at risk? That his child's life or health was at risk?

Has there been any sexual liaison between Charlie and Vicki? Or between Victor and Camilla? Does Charlie have reason to suspect that Victor has slept with Camilla?
Emeraldink (Emeraldink)
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Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 4:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

There was a "bad thing" that happened to Charlie after the surgery and before the murder. Is this a separate incident or a part of either significant event in the story? Was that "bad thing" Camilla's miscarrige?
Booklover (Booklover)
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Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 7:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I’m trying to establish the timeline--Basically, we know that Victor was murdered five years after the surgery. It was from an “action” and something said on Victor’s part that caused emotional and physical trauma to Charlie. Timeline? Was it 1. Charlie's surgery 2. thing said/ action done 3. murder five years later (where Charlie could stew about what was said/done) or 1. Charlie's surgery 2. five years later—thing said and done 3. murder?

Where does Charlie's surgery occur in relationship to the miscarriage and birth? Is it miscarriage/birth/surgery?
Miscarriage/surgery/birth?
surgery/miscarriage/birth?

Am I correct that it was not necessarily "heart" surgery, it could have been any life saving surgery?
Superman (Superman)
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Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 7:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So Victor saves Charlie's life on an operating table, and after the surgery, he says "You should [do something]"? Is this correct? YESish In saying this, is he acting professionally and within his remit as a heart surgeon? YESish Would any heart surgeon be likely to tell Charlie this? (eg "You should give up smoking"). NO

Is the remark an actual instruction to do something? YES Or does it rather take the form of "You should find that you feel better after a few days"? NO

Did Charlie feel any anger at the time of the remark? NO Did he actually do the thing(s) that Victor told him to do? NO If so, did he do those things right away, while in hospital? Or later?
And if so, did he do something once or over a period of time?

Did Victor know, at the time of the surgery, about Camilla's problem? YES Had Camilla had a miscarriage before Charlie's surgery? YES Had Vicki had a miscarriage before the surgery? YES Does Victor mention a next of kin or a consent form relating to the surgery? NO

If Victor had not made the remark, but had merely performed the deed five years later, would Charlie still have felt anger towards him? NO In performing the mystery deed, was Victor acting professionally and within his remit as a surgeon? YES Was he actually on duty at the time, or was he simply attending the birth of his own child? Simply attending the birth of his child


Was there any relevant period of time between the two births? NO Were both children born healthy? YES Did Charlie have reason to believe, immediately after the birth, that Camilla's life was at risk? NO That his child's life or health was at risk? NOish

Has there been any sexual liaison between Charlie and Vicki? NO Or between Victor and Camilla? NO Does Charlie have reason to suspect that Victor has slept with Camilla? NO

There was a "bad thing" that happened to Charlie after the surgery and before the murder. Is this a separate incident or a part of either significant event in the story? Part of one of the events Was that "bad thing" Camilla's miscarrige? NO

I’m trying to establish the timeline--Basically, we know that Victor was murdered five years after the surgery. It was from an “action” and something said on Victor’s part that caused emotional and physical not physical trauma to Charlie. Timeline? But otherwise correct Was it 1. Charlie's surgery 2. thing said/ action done 3. murder five years later (where Charlie could stew about what was said/done) or 1. Charlie's surgery 2. five years later—thing said and done 3. murder? Neither, recall that what was said and the action were FIVE YEARS APART.

Where does Charlie's surgery occur in relationship to the miscarriage and birth? Is it miscarriage/birth/surgery? NO
Miscarriage/surgery/birth? YES
surgery/miscarriage/birth? NO

Am I correct that it was not necessarily "heart" surgery, it could have been any life saving surgery? YES
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Thursday, April 26, 2007 - 8:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Let's tackle the remark made after Victor had operated on Charlie. Was the remark made immediately after Charlie had woken up from the anaesthetic? Or later? If later, was it hours later? Days later? Weeks later? Longer? Did the remark refer to Camilla in any way?

Did Victor tell Charlie:

that he should use birth control?
that he should refrain from sexual intercourse?
that he should have a vasectomy?
that he should have an HIV/STD test?
that he should keep the surgery a secret from Camilla?
that he should consider having further surgery?
that he should donate his sperm?
that he should try for a test-tube baby?
that he would never ever father a child?

At the time of the remark, did Charlie know about Vicki's problem (ie that she found it difficult to conceive)?

Then on to the day of the murder (five years later): is this the same day as the two births? We've established that the murder happens after both births, haven't we? Is it a few moments after? Or hours? Or longer? Does the murder actually happen in the hospital ward? Were the women present at the time of the murder? If so, did either try to intervene or explain anything?

Is Charlie angry because:

he believes that the child may not be his?
he thinks that Victor lied to him?
he believes that his child may be born with some severe disability?

The action performed by Victor: was it a medical procedure? Something involving surgical instruments? A gesture? An act of writing something down? Delivering a child? Did he draw curtains around either woman? Would anyone be able to perform this action? Did the action lead Charlie to think that his child was somehow very ill? Or disabled? Or stillborn?
Superman (Superman)
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Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 12:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Let's tackle the remark made after Victor had operated on Charlie. Was the remark made immediately after Charlie had woken up from the anaesthetic? NO Or later? YES If later, was it hours later? NO Days later? YES Weeks later? NO Longer? NO Did the remark refer to Camilla in any way? YESish
Booklover (Booklover)
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Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 2:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Let me see if I have this all straight--Correct any discrepancies, please..I am putting this in order of what happened--hopefully I have my facts straight. I tried scanning through the questions and responses.

1. Miscarriage—both Charlie’s and Victor’s wives, (Camilla and Vicki respectively) have had trouble getting and staying pregnant. They have both had miscarriages.

2. Surgery—Charlie has life saving surgery performed by Victor. Days later Victor gives Charlie an instruction to do something which was perhaps unprofessional.

Five years pass

3. Birth—Birth of Camilla’s/Charlie’s child and Vicki’s/Victor’s child. Both were on the same hall, but not the same room.

Both Camilla and Vicki have problems during their labor.

4. Action--At the time of the births, Victor does something (action-wise) which affects Charlie emotionally, in the way of shock and fear.

5. Murder--Charlie responds to Victor’s action in anger and murders Victor.

6. Regret—Charlie finds out something. He wishes he had known this “something” or else he would not have murdered Victor. This “something” was related to pregnancy, and Vicki in particular.

My questions: someone asked if Victor was possibly murdered for money—-response was noish. Did Charlie owe Victor Money? Did Victor owe Charlie money?

Stated that Victor did NOT help the complications with the word not capitalized. Does this mean he somehow hindered one of the births? If so, was it Camilla’s? Vicki’s? Was this the something negative that happened during the birth or was there something else?

When Charlie had his surgery, did he and Victor talk about Camilla's trouble with getting/staying pregnant? Vicki's? Did Victor ask Charlie to help them (Victor and Vicki) get pregnant? Did Victor offer Charlie money to do this or something else?

Did Charlie think Vicki's baby was his?
Superman (Superman)
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Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 3:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Let me see if I have this all straight--Correct any discrepancies, please..I am putting this in order of what happened--hopefully I have my facts straight. I tried scanning through the questions and responses.

1. Miscarriage—both Charlie’s and Victor’s wives, (Camilla and Vicki respectively) have had trouble getting and staying pregnant. They have both had miscarriages.

2. Surgery—Charlie has life saving surgery performed by Victor. Days later Victor gives Charlie an instruction to do something which was perhaps unprofessional.

Five years pass

3. Birth—Birth of Camilla’s/Charlie’s child and Vicki’s/Victor’s child. Both were on the same hall, but not the same room.

Both Camilla and Vicki have problems during their labor. Not this; recall that, on my post of 24 April about 1am, I said there were no complications with either birth -- but there IS a problem-ish (it's what leads to the murder)that arises at the births

4. Action--At the time of the births, Victor does something (action-wise) which affects Charlie emotionally, in the way of shock and fear.

5. Murder--Charlie responds to Victor’s action in anger and murders Victor.

6. Regret—Charlie finds out something. He wishes he had known this “something” or else he would not have murdered Victor. This “something” was related to pregnancy, and Vicki in particular.
But otherwise, this is correct -- minus a few more to-be-discovered details


My questions: someone asked if Victor was possibly murdered for money—-response was noish. Did Charlie owe Victor Money? YESish Did Victor owe Charlie money? NO

Stated that Victor did NOT help the complications with the word not capitalized. Does this mean he somehow hindered one of the births? No, to me it just seemed at the time necessary to stess that fact, I don't even recall why now If so, was it Camilla’s? Vicki’s? Was this the something negative that happened during the birth or was there something else? Something else

When Charlie had his surgery, did he and Victor talk about Camilla's trouble with getting/staying pregnant? NO Vicki's? YES Did Victor ask Charlie to help them (Victor and Vicki) get pregnant? NO Did Victor offer Charlie money to do this or something else? What do you mean by 'something else'?

Did Charlie think Vicki's baby was his? NO
Superman (Superman)
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Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 3:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry, Woodworm ... missed a few of your questions !!!

Did Victor tell Charlie:

that he should use birth control? NO
that he should refrain from sexual intercourse? NO
that he should have a vasectomy? NO
that he should have an HIV/STD test? NO
that he should keep the surgery a secret from Camilla? NO
that he should consider having further surgery? NO
that he should donate his sperm? NO
that he should try for a test-tube baby? NO
that he would never ever father a child? NO

At the time of the remark, did Charlie know about Vicki's problem (ie that she found it difficult to conceive)? YES

Then on to the day of the murder (five years later): is this the same day as the two births? YES We've established that the murder happens after both births, haven't we? YES Is it a few moments after? Probably about half an hour to several hours Or hours? Or longer? Does the murder actually happen in the hospital ward? YES Were the women present at the time of the murder? In the ward but not at the scene If so, did either try to intervene or explain anything?

Is Charlie angry because:

he believes that the child may not be his? NO
he thinks that Victor lied to him? NO
he believes that his child may be born with some severe disability? NO

The action performed by Victor: was it a medical procedure? NO Something involving surgical instruments? NO A gesture? YESish An act of writing something down? NO Delivering a child? Did he draw curtains around either woman? NO Would anyone be able to perform this action? YES Did the action lead Charlie to think that his child was somehow very ill? NO Or disabled? NO Or stillborn? NO

Great questions everyone !
~damia~ (~damia~)
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Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 9:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is Cs child impaired in any way? does it have Downs? a physical disability?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 9:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Good point, Booklover: I'd quite forgotten the financial aspect. So here we are, in the hospital on the day of the births, and it should be a happy occasion, surely? So Charlie kills Victor because of money?

The remark made five years before: was this about the cost of the operation? Was it a private operation? Or state-funded? Did Charlie claim that he could not afford to pay? Did Victor instruct him to pay? If so, did he instruct him to pay immediately? Or by instalments?

I know this is slightly macabre, but did Victor and Charlie do a deal of some sort after the surgery? For instance: did Charlie promise to give his first-born child to Victor and Vicki in lieu of payment, knowing that V&V could not conceive (and thinking that he and Camilla would never conceive either)?

On the day of the murder, did Charlie know that Vicki had given birth? Is this relevant? Is Charlie afraid that Victor will remind him of his financial obligations? Does Victor perhaps pick up the phone? And Charlie perhaps thinks that Victor will claim C's child as his? Or perhaps Charlie fears that Victor will be reporting him to the police? Does Victor's action involve any banknotes? Coins? Cheque? Any written custody agreement or similar?
Superman (Superman)
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Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 1:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Good point, Booklover: I'd quite forgotten the financial aspect. So here we are, in the hospital on the day of the births, and it should be a happy occasion, surely? So Charlie kills Victor because of money? YESish

The remark made five years before: was this about the cost of the operation? YES Was it a private operation? YES Or state-funded? NO Did Charlie claim that he could not afford to pay? YES Did Victor instruct him to pay? YES If so, did he instruct him to pay immediately? Or by instalments? Neither ...

I know this is slightly macabre, but did Victor and Charlie do a deal of some sort after the surgery? For instance: did Charlie promise to give his first-born child to Victor and Vicki in lieu of payment, knowing that V&V could not conceive (and thinking that he and Camilla would never conceive either)? YES, exactly !!!

On the day of the murder, did Charlie know that Vicki had given birth? Yope Is this relevant? YES Is Charlie afraid that Victor will remind him of his financial obligations? YES Does Victor perhaps pick up the phone? NO And Charlie perhaps thinks that Victor will claim C's child as his? YES Or perhaps Charlie fears that Victor will be reporting him to the police? NO Does Victor's action involve any banknotes? Coins? Cheque? Any written custody agreement or similar? NONE
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 1:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Aha! What a brilliantly warped little story this is turning out to be. It seems we're in the home straight now. All we have to discover is Victor's action that causes Charlie's anxiety: is this right?

Between the birth of his own child and the murder, did Charlie think that Vicki had had a miscarriage? Did Victor do something that seemed like a sign of grief, eg crying, wringing his hands, etc? If so, Charlie might think that Victor, in losing his own child, would seize C&C's child in payment of the 'debt'? Or did Victor's action more directly indicate (in Charlie's view) an intent to seize the baby? Or did Victor simply wave at Charlie, causing Charlie to panic and think "Oh my God, he recognises me, and he remembers"? Or did Victor remind him of the agreement in some way, by performing some other action?
Superman (Superman)
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Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 2:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Aha! What a brilliantly warped little story this is turning out to be. It seems we're in the home straight now. All we have to discover is Victor's action that causes Charlie's anxiety: is this right? Not really, it was just a movement that Charlie misinterpreted

Between the birth of his own child and the murder, did Charlie think that Vicki had had a miscarriage? NO Did Victor do something that seemed like a sign of grief, eg crying, wringing his hands, etc? NO If so, Charlie might think that Victor, in losing his own child, would seize C&C's child in payment of the 'debt'? Or did Victor's action more directly indicate (in Charlie's view) an intent to seize the baby? NO, but ... Or did Victor simply wave at Charlie, causing Charlie to panic and think "Oh my God, he recognises me, and he remembers"? YES Or did Victor remind him of the agreement in some way, by performing some other action? NO
Superman (Superman)
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Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 2:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

There's just one more thing to tie in that we actually already know --- I've a feeling that we'll be done with this by the end of the day !!!
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 2:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Charlie afraid that Victor would ask for the money? Is it relevant how much it is? Relevant whether Charlie would be able to pay or not?

Or maybe Charlie thought Victor remembered something else besides the money?
Booklover (Booklover)
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Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 3:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is his wave simply a friendly wave, or is it a wave in recognition of Charlie?

Does he even recognize Charlie?
Does he remember the deal they made? Is this the missing link? Does Charlie murder Victor and find out later that Victor didn't even remember the deal (or didn't need Charlie's baby because Vicki was having their baby)?

Once Vicki got pregnant, Victor really didn't need Charlie/Camilla's baby--does Victor decide not to pursue Charlie?

Has Victor told Vicki about his and Charlie's deal?

Does Charlie see Victor near/in/coming out of Camilla's room? Does Charlie see Victor near/in/coming out of Vicki's room and think it is Camilla's room?
Booklover (Booklover)
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Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 3:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

One more thought...
Does the "if only he'd known" go along the lines of "if only he'd known that he and Camilla would eventually get pregnant, then Charlie would not have promised his firstborn to Victor and find out another way to pay him for the surgery?"

p.s. good job to wordworm for figuring out that Charlie promised Victor his firstborn.
Foulglory (Foulglory)
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Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 3:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Victor actually not want payment?
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 4:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

missed that part with the baby as payment, stupid me, lol

The thing that Charlie should have known, was it that Vickie also had a baby? Or is there something else to it?
Superman (Superman)
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Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 10:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

One more thought...
Does the "if only he'd known" go along the lines of "if only he'd known that he and Camilla would eventually get pregnant, then Charlie would not have promised his firstborn to Victor and find out another way to pay him for the surgery?" Not quite

p.s. good job to wordworm for figuring out that Charlie promised Victor his firstborn.

Did Victor actually not want payment? Not anymore ...

The thing that Charlie should have known, was it that Vickie also had a baby? YES ... so put it all together ... Or is there something else to it? NO
Superman (Superman)
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Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 10:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

oops!
Is his wave simply a friendly wave, or is it a wave in recognition of Charlie? in recognition

Does he even recognize Charlie? YES
Does he remember the deal they made? YES Is this the missing link? YES Does Charlie murder Victor and find out later that Victor didn't even remember the deal (or didn't need Charlie's baby because Vicki was having their baby YES, he didn't need the baby !!!!!!!)

Once Vicki got pregnant, Victor really didn't need Charlie/Camilla's baby--does Victor decide not to pursue Charlie? YES !!!!!!!!

Has Victor told Vicki about his and Charlie's deal? Irr

Does Charlie see Victor near/in/coming out of Camilla's room? NO Does Charlie see Victor near/in/coming out of Vicki's room and think it is Camilla's room? NO
Booklover (Booklover)
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Posted on Friday, April 27, 2007 - 11:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Good puzzle!

So, do we have all the pieces? I've put together my timeline with the missing pieces.
1. Miscarriage—both Charlie’s and Victor’s wives, (Camilla and Vicki respectively) have had trouble getting and staying pregnant. They have both had miscarriages.

2. Surgery—Charlie has life saving surgery performed by Victor. Days later Victor gives Charlie to give him his firstborn in lieu of money since Charlie has no money to pay for the surgery. Charlie agrees since he is sure that he and Camilla won't get pregnant.

Five years pass

3. Birth—Birth of Camilla’s/Charlie’s child and Vicki’s/Victor’s child. Both were on the same hall, but not the same room.

4. Action--At the time of the births, Victor sees Charlie and recognizes him--by waving at him (Victor does remember their deal). Charlie does not realize Vicki has had a baby, and he thinks Victor is their to claim his firstborn. He is scared.

5. Murder--Charlie murders Victor before Victor can claim the baby.

6. Regret—Charlie finds out later that Victor's wife, Vicki just had a baby and that Victor did not want Charlie's firstborn. In fact, Victor was probably going to "forget" any payment at all.
Superman (Superman)
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Posted on Saturday, April 28, 2007 - 1:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Good puzzle!

So, do we have all the pieces? I've put together my timeline with the missing pieces.
1. Miscarriage—both Charlie’s and Victor’s wives, (Camilla and Vicki respectively) have had trouble getting and staying pregnant. They have both had miscarriages.

2. Surgery—Charlie has life saving surgery performed by Victor. Days later Victor gives Charlie to give him his firstborn in lieu of money since Charlie has no money to pay for the surgery. Charlie agrees since he is sure that he and Camilla won't get pregnant.

Five years pass

3. Birth—Birth of Camilla’s/Charlie’s child and Vicki’s/Victor’s child. Both were on the same hall, but not the same room.

4. Action--At the time of the births, Victor sees Charlie and recognizes him--by waving at him (Victor does remember their deal). Charlie does not realize Vicki has had a baby, and he thinks Victor is their to claim his firstborn. He is scared.

5. Murder--Charlie murders Victor before Victor can claim the baby.

6. Regret—Charlie finds out later that Victor's wife, Vicki just had a baby and that Victor did not want Charlie's firstborn. In fact, Victor was probably going to "forget" any payment at all. That is it !!!!!
Superman (Superman)
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Posted on Saturday, April 28, 2007 - 1:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

***SPOILER***

^^^^ Need I say more ?

THANK YOU for sticking with it, all; congratulations Booklover, for solving it; I'll be back with another puzzle soon !
Booklover (Booklover)
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Posted on Saturday, April 28, 2007 - 2:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks! I definitely think it was a team effort on solving this one--I know I wouldn't have figured out everything on my own. It was a really good puzzle--really had me thinking!
Superman (Superman)
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Posted on Saturday, April 28, 2007 - 4:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Glad you enjoyed it .. I have a new puzzle at the bottom of the page !
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Sunday, April 29, 2007 - 7:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This was a really fun puzzle!
Crazypalpig (Crazypalpig)
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Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 12:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wow. 229 post(now 230) for a regular puzzle!!

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