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Beroean (Beroean)
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Post Number: 1183
Registered: 10-2001
Posted on Tuesday, August 07, 2007 - 3:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

... I did make provision for something else!

(This shouldn't take long)
Sixtyeight (Sixtyeight)
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Post Number: 347
Registered: 6-2007
Posted on Tuesday, August 07, 2007 - 6:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was your provision a single item?
did you buy something?
did you prepare for something?
were you anticipating something?
was the provision preventative?

should my above questions be in the present tense?
Beroean (Beroean)
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Username: Beroean

Post Number: 1184
Registered: 10-2001
Posted on Tuesday, August 07, 2007 - 6:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was your provision a single item? yesish - maybe false assumption
did you buy something? no
did you prepare for something? yes
were you anticipating something? yesish
was the provision preventative? sort of

should my above questions be in the present tense? yes - I could have said I have made provision ..
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Username: Tobasi

Post Number: 563
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Tuesday, August 07, 2007 - 7:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Simon!
Is the provision tangible?
Is "something else" an action? a job?
Is it related to work? leisure? everyday life?
Are there other people involved?
Beroean (Beroean)
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Username: Beroean

Post Number: 1185
Registered: 10-2001
Posted on Tuesday, August 07, 2007 - 9:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Tobasi!

Is the provision tangible? no
Is "something else" an action? a job? an action is closest
Is it related to work? yope
leisure?
everyday life? yesish
Are there other people involved? yes
Emeraldink (Emeraldink)
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Post Number: 402
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 8:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the whole scenario real-life? could have happened? did happen? sci-fi? fairy tale?
Beroean (Beroean)
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Username: Beroean

Post Number: 1188
Registered: 10-2001
Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 8:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the whole scenario real-life? Yes
could have happened? Yes
did happen? Not yet
sci-fi? fairy tale?
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Username: Tobasi

Post Number: 565
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 9:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the provision a feeling? a gas? light? sound? something measurable?
The other people involved: your friends? family? colleagues? or strangers?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Post Number: 3287
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Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 12:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Anything to do with backing up data?
Beroean (Beroean)
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Username: Beroean

Post Number: 1189
Registered: 10-2001
Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 12:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tobasi
Is the provision a feeling? a gas? light? sound? no to these
something measurable? not really
The other people involved: your friends? family? colleagues? or strangers? family

Lynne
Anything to do with backing up data? Bingo!
Lynne (Lynne)
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Username: Lynne

Post Number: 3288
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Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 12:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Now why does that not surprise me?? : -)

So you've been dutifully backing up data - did this have a secondary, unexpected, value?
Or did you find that you were doing it for one reason and it didn't work for some other reason?

Did you make provision for, say, a flood happening? but a fire happened instead? or something along those lines?
Beroean (Beroean)
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Username: Beroean

Post Number: 1190
Registered: 10-2001
Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 12:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Now why does that not surprise me?? : -)
Exactly :-)

So you've been dutifully backing up data - did this have a secondary, unexpected, value? Not exactly but not far away - explore

Or did you find that you were doing it for one reason and it didn't work for some other reason? No

Did you make provision for, say, a flood happening? but a fire happened instead? or something along those lines? No but ..
Lynne (Lynne)
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Post Number: 3292
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Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 7:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did you make provision for every possible scenario? (Apart from your home and office both burning down at the same time)
Beroean (Beroean)
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Username: Beroean

Post Number: 1191
Registered: 10-2001
Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 11:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did you make provision for every possible scenario? (Apart from your home and office both burning down at the same time)

No - just one other scenario

To assist others who may not be as well informed as Lynne - see recent chatroom posts
Sixtyeight (Sixtyeight)
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Post Number: 357
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Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 11:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is the provision backing up your PC? and it is for "something else"?
were you prepared for some kind of failure?
Beroean (Beroean)
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Username: Beroean

Post Number: 1192
Registered: 10-2001
Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 - 11:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is the provision backing up your PC? No
and it is for "something else"? Not sure what you mean but the provision is something other than backing up but related to backing up

were you prepared for some kind of failure? In a manner of speaking
Lynne (Lynne)
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Post Number: 3294
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Posted on Thursday, August 09, 2007 - 12:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Had you backed up all your chess moves so that you could still play on holiday?
Beroean (Beroean)
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Username: Beroean

Post Number: 1193
Registered: 10-2001
Posted on Friday, August 10, 2007 - 7:22 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Had you backed up all your chess moves so that you could still play on holiday? You know me well - but no not this
Bodo (Bodo)
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Post Number: 1992
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Posted on Friday, August 10, 2007 - 3:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Simon - thanks again for fixing up my account.

UPS relevant? Fire-proof safe? Extra cd/dvd drive?
Beroean (Beroean)
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Username: Beroean

Post Number: 1194
Registered: 10-2001
Posted on Saturday, August 11, 2007 - 8:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Bodo - you're welcome. It's good to see you back on your latest stop-over!

UPS relevant? Fire-proof safe? Extra cd/dvd drive?
No to all but great ideas!
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Post Number: 568
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Posted on Saturday, August 11, 2007 - 10:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this about your computer? at home? at work? is the computer system relevant?
Is the medium on which the data were stored relevant?
Is the nature of the data relevant? programmes? text? images? music? videos?
The other people involved: your family? friends? colleagues? strangers?
How many other people are involved? how many females?
Beroean (Beroean)
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Username: Beroean

Post Number: 1195
Registered: 10-2001
Posted on Saturday, August 11, 2007 - 3:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this about your computer? Yesish

at home? at work? My computer is at home but I have keep a backup at work. I actually have a backup at home and at work (in case my home burns down or gets destroyed somehow.

is the computer system relevant? No

Is the medium on which the data were stored relevant? Yesish

Is the nature of the data relevant? programmes? text? images? music? videos? Yes to all

The other people involved: your family? Yes
friends? No
colleagues?
Yes
strangers? Yesish

How many other people are involved? No others

how many females? There is one specific person involved who is female and all the others belong to both genders and make up a non specific number.
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Username: Tobasi

Post Number: 570
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Posted on Saturday, August 11, 2007 - 5:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The specific person involved: your wife? daughter? mother? a colleague?
Is the profession of the colleagues relevant?
The storage medium:
mobile drive? usb stick? DVD? CD? floppy disk? other?
Do we have to find out anything about the nature of the data? your personal files?
Beroean (Beroean)
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Username: Beroean

Post Number: 1196
Registered: 10-2001
Posted on Sunday, August 12, 2007 - 12:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The specific person involved: your wife? daughter? mother? a colleague?
Wife
Is the profession of the colleagues relevant? No
The storage medium:
mobile drive? usb stick? DVD? CD? floppy disk? other? Mobile Drive

Do we have to find out anything about the nature of the data? Yesish
your personal files? Yesish
Booklover (Booklover)
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Post Number: 560
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Sunday, August 12, 2007 - 3:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is your wife good with computers?
were you worried that she might do something to the computer and lose the data?

are you worried just about information you have added to the computers or some that she adds as well (photos, documents, etc)?

do you use your home computer for fun only, or do you use it for work as well? have any important patient files/work files on your home computer? if there are also work files on your computer, are there files that you can't allow your wife to access?
Beroean (Beroean)
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Post Number: 1199
Registered: 10-2001
Posted on Sunday, August 12, 2007 - 6:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Recap

The idea for this puzzle originated from the following conversation in the chatroom

Lynne
I have just had one of those experiences when you think you've lost everything and then you find, thanks to foresight, you haven't lost as much as you think. My disk drive died. On it were all my photos and music. Don't care so much about the rest - well, I would have once time had moved on a bit and I'd keep remembering things - but my photos have always been the most important thing for me. But we BACKED UP the entire system a few weeks ago. Hadn't done that in years, but we did it in time. My latest trip photos from when we went to see my family weren't backed up but they were still on my camera. A few missing that were taken afterwards and somehow I deleted them but I can live with that.

Before another 24 hours passes - BACK UP EVERYTHING.


Beroean
I am an obsessional-compulsive backer upper.

I back up monthly at the very least. Just recently it has been weekly.

I have two 120 Gig mobile drives that are plug and play via USB and powered by the USB too. I keep one at home and in case the house should burn down I keep it's twin at my work place, safely locked up in one of my drawers.

In addition to the two drives I have cases full of rewritable and read only DVD's that contain other data.

Incidentally my PC hard drive died in May of this year but due to my conscientious backing up I lost nothing of any importance.

Any thoughts? :-)

Crazypalpig
Yeah, what if your workplace burns down too :P

Beroean
Even my obsessional disorder has limits!
But ...

(The answer not about backing up as such but is very much about my back up!)
Beroean (Beroean)
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Username: Beroean

Post Number: 1200
Registered: 10-2001
Posted on Sunday, August 12, 2007 - 6:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is your wife good with computers? No, far from it! :-)
were you worried that she might do something to the computer and lose the data? No (although it is a constant anxiety) :-)

are you worried just about information you have added to the computers or some that she adds as well (photos, documents, etc)? both

do you use your home computer for fun only, or do you use it for work as well? Fun and work

have any important patient files/work files on your home computer? Not relevant

if there are also work files on your computer, are there files that you can't allow your wife to access?
This is a good idea and although it is not the case you are thinking in the correct lateral direction
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Username: Tobasi

Post Number: 573
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Monday, August 13, 2007 - 12:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the frequency of your backups relevant?
Is the fact that your hard drive died in May relevant?
Is any particular file or folder relevant?
Is chess relevant?
Beroean (Beroean)
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Username: Beroean

Post Number: 1201
Registered: 10-2001
Posted on Monday, August 13, 2007 - 3:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the frequency of your backups relevant? No
Is the fact that your hard drive died in May relevant?No
Is any particular file or folder relevant? No
Is chess relevant? No :-)
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Post Number: 574
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Posted on Monday, August 13, 2007 - 5:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK, I'll keep on looking for something relevant:
Is the fact that you use two mobile drives relevant? that you keep one at home and the other at work?
Is the scenario of your house or your place of work burning down relevant?
Is the "But ..." of your last post particulary relevant?
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Post Number: 575
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Posted on Monday, August 13, 2007 - 5:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh yes, is the title relevant? is the puzzle about a very high number (of possibilities or similar)?
Beroean (Beroean)
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Post Number: 1202
Registered: 10-2001
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 1:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK, I'll keep on looking for something relevant:

Is the fact that you use two mobile drives relevant? Noish

that you keep one at home and the other at work? Yes

Is the scenario of your house or your place of work burning down relevant? No

Is the "But ..." of your last post particulary relevant? Yes

Oh yes, is the title relevant? Yesish

is the puzzle about a very high number (of possibilities or similar)?
It is about small possibilities - when Crazypalpig pointed out that I had not covered for the possibility of my home AND work-place both burning down at the same time, my immediate thought was that, the chances of that happening are astronomical. My train of thought led me to the fact that there are more possible games of chess than atoms in the universe (which is not really relevant). Anyway, my "But..." and the "Provision" is about something that is far more likely to take place.
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Post Number: 579
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Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 5:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the process of exchanging the two mobile drives relevant? i.e. you make a new update at home, you take the drive to you place of work and if the latter burns down at this moment you would be in trouble. anything along these lines?
So how would you best complete the "But...":
"I try to minimise the risk"?
"I am more prudent than many people"?
"there is no absolute security"?
"I do what I can"?
something else?
Tosh (Tosh)
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Post Number: 81
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Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 10:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So we are looking for something that is only remotely likely to happen but is more likely to happen than simultaneous fires at your home and place of work?

How about something that could happen on the way to and from work? At the point that you are transferring the latest backup to the other place? Do you have a third back up in your car?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Post Number: 3297
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Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 10:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Rats, Tosh got in with my suggestion right before I could post. :-)
Beroean (Beroean)
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Post Number: 1203
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Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 8:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tobasi
Is the process of exchanging the two mobile drives relevant? i.e. you make a new update at home, you take the drive to you place of work and if the latter burns down at this moment you would be in trouble. Good idea but No

anything along these lines? No

So how would you best complete the "But...":
"I try to minimise the risk"? No, there is another, rather lateral risk ..

"I am more prudent than many people"? Noish
"there is no absolute security"? No (but true)
"I do what I can"? No (but true again)
something else? Yes

Lynne
So we are looking for something that is only remotely likely to happen but is more likely to happen than simultaneous fires at your home and place of work? Not quite - it is actually something far, far more likely to happen but most people might not consider

How about something that could happen on the way to and from work? Yes, it could
At the point that you are transferring the latest backup to the other place? Statistically less likely than the above
Do you have a third back up in your car? No but now you've given me an idea... but Crazypal Pig would suggest that my home, workplace and car might all catch fire at the same time. (I'm just glad I don't live and work in Baghdad). I suppose though it could happen if we had a nuclear attack but then again ...
Emeraldink (Emeraldink)
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Post Number: 447
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Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 9:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the backups encrypted?
Beroean (Beroean)
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Post Number: 1204
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Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 1:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the backups encrypted? No, they are not!
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 1:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That you could be mugged and relieved of your data whilst it's being transported?
Beroean (Beroean)
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Post Number: 1205
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Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 1:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That you could be mugged and relieved of your data whilst it's being transported? Nope
(I can see that there are far more provisions to consider than I first imagined!)
Booklover (Booklover)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 2:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ok...sorry if this question is so rambling! are you making a provision of saving "secret" data/ ids, emails, bank passwords, etc. (basically that data which you would not want a third party to see) to another drive (or disk/cd)...if the computer crashes, then you won't have to worry about a third party accessing the sort of information that would make you vulnerable to theft/identity theft/that sort of thing...
Beroean (Beroean)
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Post Number: 1206
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Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 6:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ok...sorry if this question is so rambling! are you making a provision of saving "secret" data/ ids, emails, bank passwords, etc. (basically that data which you would not want a third party to see) to another drive (or disk/cd)...if the computer crashes, then you won't have to worry about a third party accessing the sort of information that would make you vulnerable to theft/identity theft/that sort of thing...

This is an interesting idea but it's not the one
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 3:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the puzzle statement complete the last sentence of the chatroom conversation:
"Even my obsessional disorder has limits!
But ... I did make provision for something else!"?
Is "something else": a kind of disaster? another situation in which you would need a provision? another entity than data? a great record of the Kinks?
Is anything of the following relevant: passwords? data encryption? computer viruses? spam? emails? computer crash? electrical power outage? any accident?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 3:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there some way that you could keep your laptop running at all times, with a camera attached like a mini CCTV (i.e. you've got tapes of all the times your computer is on the move) and if you lose it you will at least be able to give the police an accurate picture of all people who moved towards your computer including the one who would rip the camera off before hightailing with it?
Beroean (Beroean)
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Post Number: 1207
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Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 10:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Tobasi
Does the puzzle statement complete the last sentence of the chatroom conversation:
"Even my obsessional disorder has limits! Yes
But ... I did make provision for something else!"? Yes – well done!

Is "something else": a kind of disaster? Yes
another situation in which you would need a provision? Yes
another entity than data? Yes but it does involve the data!

a great record of the Kinks? No

Is anything of the following relevant: passwords? yope
data encryption? yope

computer viruses? spam? emails? computer crash? electrical power outage? No to these

any accident? quite possibly


Lynne
Is there some way that you could keep your laptop running at all times, with a camera attached like a mini CCTV (i.e. you've got tapes of all the times your computer is on the move) and if you lose it you will at least be able to give the police an accurate picture of all people who moved towards your computer including the one who would rip the camera off before hightailing with it?
No Lynne – I’m not that obsessional!! :-)


Hint: If I'd employed a passwrod and encryption in the first place then the need for my provision would not have been so great.
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Post Number: 583
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Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2007 - 6:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So if I understand this right, you do not backup your data primarily because of fear of a fire but rather because of fear of some other incident?
Would this incident involve your wife? one mobile drive? both mobile drives? your computer? other objects? does it happen at your place of work? at home?
And the provision is not exactly the data, right? Does the provision include the data? and other documents?
Is there any data that you do not want to be seen by anybody? if yes is this relevant?
Beroean (Beroean)
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Username: Beroean

Post Number: 1208
Registered: 10-2001
Posted on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 1:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So if I understand this right, you do not backup your data primarily because of fear of a fire but rather because of fear of some other incident? No, I back up data for all the normal reasons but I also keep a second back up at work, in case of fire at home.

I guess there may be a false assumption here. The "other provision" is something a little different.


Would this incident involve your wife? Yes
one mobile drive? Yes
both mobile drives? No
your computer? No
other objects? No
does it happen at your place of work? Yope
at home? Yope

And the provision is not exactly the data, right? It involves the data

Does the provision include the data? Yes
and other documents? No
Is there any data that you do not want to be seen by anybody? Yes
if yes is this relevant? Yes
Sixtyeight (Sixtyeight)
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Posted on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 1:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is it an insurance policy?
Bodo (Bodo)
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Posted on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 3:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sensitive data? Is it in the nature of physical protection (e. g. the mobile drive is locked up in a cabinet)? Or preventing the accidental deletion of data?
Beroean (Beroean)
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Posted on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 4:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sixty Eight
Is it an insurance policy? Yes, in a manner of speaking

Bodo
Sensitive data? Is it in the nature of physical protection (e. g. the mobile drive is locked up in a cabinet)? Yes

Or preventing the accidental deletion of data? No
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 11:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

In your puzzle statement do you use provision in the sense of measure? precaution? reserve?
Do you want to keep your data away from someone particular?
Does this data concern your person? money? property of yours?
You try to protect yourself from an incidence in which:
Someone would get hold of one of your mobile drives? and see some sensitive data? would your wife likewise be victim of such an incident?
Beroean (Beroean)
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Post Number: 1210
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Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 12:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

In your puzzle statement do you use provision in the sense of measure? precaution? reserve? Precaution

Do you want to keep your data away from someone particular? Nobody in particular

Does this data concern your person? money? property of yours? It encompasses all of these areas of privacy

You try to protect yourself from an incidence in which:
Someone would get hold of one of your mobile drives? Yes

and see some sensitive data? Yes

would your wife likewise be victim of such an incident? Yes
Sixtyeight (Sixtyeight)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 2:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

should we be looking for a place where you keep one of your external drives?
Beroean (Beroean)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 2:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

should we be looking for a place where you keep one of your external drives? Yes
Suido (Suido)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 - 3:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is this a james bond thing? after removing the portable drive from its special position in the safe, a countdown is started. unless the countdown is deactivated, the drive will self destruct? :P

is it something to do with accessing the drive?
physically? ie its in a safe? or hidden?
or digitally - the drive has some protection in terms of opening and accessing files?
Sixtyeight (Sixtyeight)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 - 4:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

does the relevant place where you put the drive involve a provision you made or a provision you could make?
Beroean (Beroean)
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Post Number: 1212
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Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 - 5:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

suido
is this a james bond thing? after removing the portable drive from its special position in the safe, a countdown is started. unless the countdown is deactivated, the drive will self destruct? :P
Sorry to disappoint - it's far from glamorous :-(

is it something to do with accessing the drive?
physically? ie its in a safe? or hidden?
or digitally - the drive has some protection in terms of opening and accessing files?


Sixtyeight
does the relevant place where you put the drive involve a provision you made or a provision you could make? It involves the provision that I made
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 - 7:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The relevant place where you keep your mobile drive:
in a building? your place of work? your home? in a particular room? in a particular piece of furniture? in a case? in a safe? a place where you wouldn't expect a mobile drive? a place where only you have access? you and 1? 2? .. other people?

And I think you forgot some of suidos questions.
Beroean (Beroean)
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Post Number: 1213
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Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 - 8:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Suidos

Sorry that I forgot to answer all of your questions first time!

is it something to do with accessing the drive? Yes
physically? Yes
ie its in a safe? or hidden? Physically, it is only relatively safe - explore
or digitally - the drive has some protection in terms of opening and accessing files? There is no protection!


Tobasi
The relevant place where you keep your mobile drive:
in a building? Yes
your place of work? Yes
your home? There is a duplicate at home but we are not concerned with that one

in a particular room? in a particular piece of furniture? in a case? in a safe? a place where you wouldn't expect a mobile drive? It is locked in my desk drawer at work - explore

a place where only you have access? you and 1? 2? .. other people?
As far as I know I am the only one that has a key

And I think you forgot some of suidos questions. Thanks for pointing that out!
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Posted on Thursday, August 23, 2007 - 12:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do we have to find out more about the key of the desk drawer?
Is the size of the drawer relevant?
Is there anything other relevant in the drawer? or in the desk? or in proximity?
Can the desk be moved easily? relevant?
Is it relevant when and how often you open the drawer? do you keep it locked when you are at work as well?
Beroean (Beroean)
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Post Number: 1214
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Posted on Thursday, August 23, 2007 - 2:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do we have to find out more about the key of the desk drawer? Only that I have the only key

Is the size of the drawer relevant? Not really, it is a normal desk drawer

Is there anything other relevant in the drawer? or in the desk? or in proximity?
Can the desk be moved easily? relevant?
Is it relevant when and how often you open the drawer? do you keep it locked when you are at work as well?

None of the above questions are relevant really but to describe the scenario, I keep the second mobile drive in my locked desk drawer at work (in case my backup at home gets destroyed in a fire or something) because the drawer seems to be the most practical and safest place to keep my total (personal) data backup. I possess the only key to the drawer and this key is hanging on my key ring with my other keys.
Booklover (Booklover)
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Posted on Thursday, August 23, 2007 - 3:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ok, hope these questions don't take this off track but...

are your keys important?

are you afraid of losing your keys?
are you afraid that someone will borrow your keys? and maybe steal your second drive?
far off guess, but are you somehow afraid that your wife will see the key and wonder what you have locked up in your desk at work?
Beroean (Beroean)
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Post Number: 1215
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Posted on Thursday, August 23, 2007 - 4:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

are your keys important? Yes

are you afraid of losing your keys? Noish

are you afraid that someone will borrow your keys? Noish

and maybe steal your second drive? Yope

far off guess, but are you somehow afraid that your wife will see the key and wonder what you have locked up in your desk at work? No but good to eliminate it
Suido (Suido)
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Posted on Friday, August 24, 2007 - 7:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

thats ok, this is my first look at this thread since i last posted, thansk for getting to them eventually!

is it something to do with the keyring containing both a key to your draw and a key to your house?

are you afraid of having your keys stolen?

is the extra provision something to do with the key?
the desk?
the drawer?
your office?
the office building?
co-workers?
Beroean (Beroean)
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Post Number: 1216
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Posted on Friday, August 24, 2007 - 9:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

s it something to do with the keyring containing both a key to your draw and a key to your house?

are you afraid of having your keys stolen? No

is the extra provision something to do with the

key? partly but not primarily
the desk? partly but not primarily
the drawer? partly but not primarily
your office? partly but not primarily
the office building? partly but not primarily
co-workers? The provision is largely beacuse of them
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Posted on Friday, August 24, 2007 - 2:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do you keep a dozen similar looking keys on your keyring, so if anyone ever did get the keys and try to break into the desk drawer, they'd have a hard time figuring out which one to use?
Is there any relevant protection to the desk drawer other than the lock and key?
If I took your keys, would I be able to use them to break into your desk drawer?
Are you afraid of someone taking the hard-drive? deliberately? a co-worker?
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Post Number: 1069
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Posted on Friday, August 24, 2007 - 2:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If one of your co-workers read this puzzle, and it's $poiler, would that render your precaution useless?
Beroean (Beroean)
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Post Number: 1217
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Posted on Friday, August 24, 2007 - 5:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi John!

Do you keep a dozen similar looking keys on your keyring, so if anyone ever did get the keys and try to break into the desk drawer, they'd have a hard time figuring out which one to use? another great idea but that's not it

Is there any relevant protection to the desk drawer other than the lock and key? No

If I took your keys, would I be able to use them to break into your desk drawer? Yes

Are you afraid of someone taking the hard-drive? deliberately? a co-worker? Not under normal circumstances

If one of your co-workers read this puzzle, and it's $poiler, would that render your precaution useless? Noish
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Posted on Friday, August 24, 2007 - 6:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do you ever keep anything else relevant in your desk drawer?
Does anyone else ever need to go into your desk drawer for any reason? Have any reason why they might want to?
Are there circumstances under which you would be worried about someone taking the hard drive? because they might have a particular motive for taking it? Because they might have less compunction than most of your coworkers about stealing from you?
Beroean (Beroean)
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Username: Beroean

Post Number: 1219
Registered: 10-2001
Posted on Friday, August 24, 2007 - 6:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do you ever keep anything else relevant in your desk drawer? No
Does anyone else ever need to go into your desk drawer for any reason? Not under normal circumstances
Have any reason why they might want to? Not under normal circumstances
Are there circumstances under which you would be worried about someone taking the hard drive? Yes
because they might have a particular motive for taking it? Noish
Because they might have less compunction than most of your coworkers about stealing from you? Noish
Bodo (Bodo)
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Posted on Friday, August 24, 2007 - 9:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it just co-workers that you're worried about (vs. anyone who might be in the office)?

Does this provision involve:
  1. Hiding something?
  2. Camouflaging something?
  3. Booby-trapping something (e. g. if not opened properly your desk drawer explodes, killing all in a 3-mile radius and sending a cloud of poisonous vapo(u)r over severa...oh, sorry, that's my desk drawer, never mind)?
  4. Keeping something secret?
  5. Following a particular pattern?
  6. Not following a particular pattern?
  7. Penguins?
Beroean (Beroean)
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Post Number: 1224
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Posted on Friday, August 24, 2007 - 11:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it just co-workers that you're worried about (vs. anyone who might be in the office)? potentially anyone in the office although there are likely to be certain ones that present more risk than others

Does this provision involve:
1. Hiding something? No
2. Camouflaging something? No
3. Booby-trapping something (e. g. if not opened properly your desk drawer explodes, killing all in a 3-mile radius and sending a cloud of poisonous vapo(u)r over severa...oh, sorry, that's my desk drawer, never mind)? Wow – wish I’d thought of that!
4. Keeping something secret? No
5. Following a particular pattern? No
6. Not following a particular pattern? No
7. Penguins? You got it unfortunately, no :-(
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Posted on Saturday, August 25, 2007 - 12:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the provision make it harder for someone else to get hold of your keys?
Less likely that they'll know where to look for your hard drive?
Christine (Christine)
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Posted on Saturday, August 25, 2007 - 2:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are we supposed to figure out the circumstances under which you're afraid somebody would go into your desk drawer?
Beroean (Beroean)
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Post Number: 1225
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Posted on Saturday, August 25, 2007 - 9:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bentarm
Does the provision make it harder for someone else to get hold of your keys? Noish
Less likely that they'll know where to look for your hard drive? No

Christine
Are we supposed to figure out the circumstances under which you're afraid somebody would go into your desk drawer? Yes
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Posted on Saturday, August 25, 2007 - 11:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do these circumstances to be figured out involve that you are at your office? that you are absent (during the night? weekends? holidays? missions? illness?)?
The people you are most worried about: people doing nearly the same job as you? your boss? trainees? security staff? cleaning staff? people working at the same time as you? working at a different time? polar bears?
Beroean (Beroean)
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Post Number: 1227
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Posted on Saturday, August 25, 2007 - 1:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do these circumstances to be figured out involve that you are at your office? No

that you are absent Yes
(during the night? weekends? holidays? missions?
illness?)? This is the closest

The people you are most worried about: people doing nearly the same job as you? Yes
your boss? Yes
trainees? No
security staff? No
cleaning staff? No

people working at the same time as you? working at a different time? Working when I am not there

polar bears? Surprisingly...No!
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Posted on Saturday, August 25, 2007 - 6:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do these colleagues use your office? your desk?
Do they play a trick on you? do they have intentions to disadvantage you? or are they careless?
So the reason for your absence is closer to illness than to nights, weekends, holidays and missions? Are you at home under these circumstances?
What about seals, are they relevant?
Beroean (Beroean)
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Post Number: 1232
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Posted on Saturday, August 25, 2007 - 6:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do these colleagues use your office? Yes
your desk? No

Do they play a trick on you? do they have intentions to disadvantage you? or are they careless? No to all

So the reason for your absence is closer to illness than to nights, weekends, holidays and missions? Yes

Are you at home under these circumstances? No

What about seals, are they relevant? No, not this time :-)
Christine (Christine)
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Posted on Saturday, August 25, 2007 - 11:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are you afraid of what will happen if you die? Or get injured/incapacitated? That somebody will be able to access private information that could still affect your wife?
Tobasi (Tobasi)
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Posted on Sunday, August 26, 2007 - 9:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would it help to find the reason of your absence in this scenario? are you working somewhere else?
Beroean (Beroean)
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Post Number: 1234
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Posted on Sunday, August 26, 2007 - 12:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are you afraid of what will happen if you die? Or get injured/incapacitated? That somebody will be able to access private information that could still affect your wife?
Well done Christine – Spot on

Would it help to find the reason of your absence in this scenario? are you working somewhere else?
Tobasi, Christine got it, but well done for leading the way


********************** SPOILER **********************

In the Chatroom, Lynne emphasized the importance of backing up data. I added that I am obsessional about backing up to the point where I keep a backup of my personal data (and the family data) at my work place in addition to one at home. The idea being that should my home be destroyed in a fire (or something similar) then all is not lost. (Incidentally the two locations are about 2 miles apart).Then Crazypalpig suggested this was inadequate should both my home and workplace catch fire.

Casting aside the threat of nuclear war and the fact that I live neither in Iraq or Greece (where this could be a distinct possibility) I find the chances of both locations getting destroyed simultaneously as rather remote, in fact too remote for my even my obsession to feel any unease. However I did make provision for something else.

When you start scattering your personal data around, you run the risk of it getting in to the wrong hands. My second backup is in the top drawer of my desk at work. Only I have the key to the desk (on my personal key ring). I trust my co-workers (but not necessarily the cleaners) but what should happen if I die or become incapacitated then at some future point they would have to force the drawer to access it. Logically I made sure that my wife was aware of the location of both the data and the key in preparation for either my death or incapacity. I wonder how many people consider such things?

It occurs to me that my death or incapacity is far more likely than the simultaneous destruction of two buildings a few miles apart. It also occurs that the same could be said about both my wife and I dying at the same time. But then where do you stop?! In any case if we were both dead then the whole issue becomes rather academic. It’s not really going to matter too much if someone else obtains the data. Anyhow they would probably recognize it for what it was and hand it over to the next of kin (my daughter) and most likely the same could have been said if my wife survived me.

It’s all about chance / percentages. Hence the title of the puzzle, “Atoms in the known universe”. Did you know that there are more possible (unique) games of chess than the number of atoms in the known universe?!

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