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Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 2777
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Saturday, October 20, 2007 - 5:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If Justin hadn't been a black man with a white mistress, he would not have gone to jail--& this was in New York, where interracial romances were never illegal.Besides, the judge & jury didn't even know about his interracial romamce. How come??
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Post Number: 1474
Registered: 6-2001
Posted on Saturday, October 20, 2007 - 7:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant what he went to jail for? murder? robbery? theft? assault? non-payment of something? rape?
Did he actually commit the crime he went to jail for?
Did his affair somehow result in his crime being detected? him being linked with the crime? some piece of physical evidence that appeared at the trial?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 2781
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Posted on Saturday, October 20, 2007 - 7:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Post Number: 1474
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Posted on Saturday, October 20, 2007 - 7:40 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is it relevant what he went to jail for? yesish murder? this was in the actual L & O case robbery? notheft? no assault? this would be possible too in this puzzlenon-payment of something? norape? no
Did he actually commit the crime he went to jail for? yes
Did his affair somehow result in his crime being detected? nohim being linked with the crime? no some piece of physical evidence that appeared at the trial? no
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Post Number: 1478
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Posted on Saturday, October 20, 2007 - 7:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If he hadn't been a black man with a white mistress, would he have been arrested? put on trial? convicted? executed?
Is it relevant that: he was black? that his mistress was white? that his mistress was a mistress, rather than a girlfriend or wife? was his wife black? relevant?
Is his job relevant? his age? Is the identity of the victim relevant? were they white? black? related to Justin? to his mistress? his wife?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 2783
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Posted on Saturday, October 20, 2007 - 8:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Post Number: 1478
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Posted on Saturday, October 20, 2007 - 7:55 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
If he hadn't been a black man with a white mistress, would he have been arrested? yes put on trial? yes convicted? possiby executed? no
Is it relevant that: he was black? yes that his mistress was white? yes that his mistress was a mistress, rather than a girlfriend no or wifeprobably not? was his wife black?In the actual L & O case, the man wawsn't married relevant? yope
Is his job relevant? no his age? no Is the identity of the victim relevant?somewhat were they white? yes--that is relavant black? no related to Justin? no to his mistress? no his wife? no
Enjay (Enjay)
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Post Number: 801
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Saturday, October 20, 2007 - 11:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is racism relevant?

If Justin had not been a black man with a white mistress, but there was absolutely incontravertible (sp?) evidence that he was guilty, would he still have been sent to jail?

The fact that only some crimes would work: is the severity of the sentence for the crime relevant in deciding this? Whether they carry the death penalty? Whether they involve harm to a victim?

Are there any other combinations of races/skin colours that would work (eg Asian man with a white mistress, black man with an Asian mistress etc, white man with a black mistress)?
Would any of these work if the race of the victim were different? Is it only important that the race of the victim is the same as that of the mistress? Different to that of Justin?

Is it just that Justin would not have committed the crime if he weren't a black man with a white mistress? Or would he have still committed it but not gone to jail for it? Would he have received a different punishment? Not been caught? Not had enough evidence to be convicted?
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Post Number: 1486
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Posted on Sunday, October 21, 2007 - 2:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the woman with whom the man was having an affair married? relevant?
Did he commit any other relevant crimes apart from the murder/assault?
Noobdogg (Noobdogg)
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Post Number: 366
Registered: 9-2007
Posted on Sunday, October 21, 2007 - 5:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is an offspring of any of these characters relevant?

If so, a vague idea I have is that the mistress was married to a white man, got pregnant, but gave birth to a dark-complexioned baby, which caused a sequence of events leading to the crime?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 2791
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Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 8:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Enjay (Enjay)
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Post Number: 801
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Posted on Saturday, October 20, 2007 - 11:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is racism relevant? yes

If Justin had not been a black man with a white mistress, but there was absolutely incontravertible (sp?) evidence that he was guilty, would he still have been sent to jail? yes

The fact that only some crimes would work: is the severity of the sentence for the crime relevant in deciding this? no Whether they carry the death penalty? no Whether they involve harm to a victim? no

Are there any other combinations of races/skin colours that would work (eg Asian man with a white mistress, unlikely black man with an Asian mistress etc, possibly but not as well white man with a black mistress)? no
Would any of these work if the race of the victim were different? note:there doesn't have to be an identifiable victim. But if there is, the victim's race is relevant Is it only important that the race of the victim is the same as that of the mistress?this helps but may not be necessary Different to that of Justin? yes

Is it just that Justin would not have committed the crime if he weren't a black man with a white mistress? no Or would he have still committed it but not gone to jail for it? yes Would he have received a different punishment? no Not been caught? no Not had enough evidence to be convicted? noish
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Post Number: 1486
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Posted on Sunday, October 21, 2007 - 2:38 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Was the woman with whom the man was having an affair married? irrel relevant? no
Did he commit any other relevant crimes apart from the murder/assault? no
Noobdogg (Noobdogg)
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Post Number: 366
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Posted on Sunday, October 21, 2007 - 5:53 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is an offspring of any of these characters relevant? no

If so, a vague idea I have is that the mistress was married to a white man, got pregnant, but gave birth to a dark-complexioned baby, which caused a sequence of events leading to the crime? no
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Post Number: 1498
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Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 8:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

the racism: are the police racist? the jury? the judge? Justin? his mistress? the victim? the victim's family? the media?

Might a black man with a close female friend who was white have been sent to jail for the same reason?

A black man with a white boyfriend?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 2794
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Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 8:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Post Number: 1498
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Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 8:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
the racism: are the police racist? irrel the jury? yes the judge? irrel Justin? yes his mistress? irrel the victim? possibly, if there is a specific victim the victim's family? irrel the media? irrel

Might a black man with a close female friend who was white have been sent to jail for the same reason?yes but maybe less likely

A black man with a white boyfriend? yes
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Post Number: 1500
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Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 9:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

were the jury predominantly white? predominantly black? relevant?
Did their racism make them more likely to believe that a black man would commit a crime? Was the racist opinion derogatory toward black people?
Was Justin's racism derogatory towards black people?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 2796
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Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 9:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Post Number: 1500
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Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 9:00 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
were the jury predominantly white? no predominantly black? yes relevant? yes
Did their racism make them more likely to believe that a black man would commit a crime? noWas the racist opinion derogatory toward black people? no
Was Justin's racism derogatory towards black people? no
Enjay (Enjay)
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Post Number: 840
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 9:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were the jury more inclined to favour a defendant of their own race, so they would have gone easy on Justin? But because of his white mistress they didn't? Did they feel that he should have a black partner? Do they feel that black people are superior? So were angry that Justin had a white mistress?
Enjay (Enjay)
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Post Number: 841
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Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 9:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh oops...just realised the jury didn't know about his white mistress. My first questions still stand, though
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Post Number: 1508
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Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 9:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the racist opinion derogatory towards white people?
Did Justin ever mistreat his mistress?
Did he use some word/phrase/mannerism that he'd picked up from his white mistress, which the black jury took offence to?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 2798
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Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 9:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Enjay (Enjay)
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Post Number: 840
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Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 9:30 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Were the jury more inclined to favour a defendant of their own race, so they would have gone easy on Justin? yes But because of his white mistress they didn't? see belowDid they feel that he should have a black partner? yes Do they feel that black people are superior? not necessarilySo were angry that Justin had a white mistress? see below
Enjay (Enjay)
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Post Number: 841
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Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 9:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Oh oops...just realised the jury didn't know about his white mistress. My first questions still stand, though
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Post Number: 1508
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Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 9:34 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Was the racist opinion derogatory towards white people? yes
Did Justin ever mistreat his mistress? no
Did he use some word/phrase/mannerism that he'd picked up from his white mistress, which the black jury took offence to? no
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Post Number: 1512
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Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 11:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If Justin had had a black girlfriend as well as his white girlfriend, would he have been punished in the same way?
Did Justin's having a white girlfriend affect his behaviour in court in any way?
Were the jury opposed to interracial relationships?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 2802
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Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 11:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Post Number: 1512
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Posted on Monday, October 22, 2007 - 11:04 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
If Justin had had a black girlfriend as well as his white girlfriend, would he have been punished in the same way? yes
Did Justin's having a white girlfriend affect his behaviour in court in any way? yesish
Were the jury opposed to interracial relationships? yes--but remember, they don't know about his white mistress
Noobdogg (Noobdogg)
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Post Number: 387
Registered: 9-2007
Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 6:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just to sum it up a bit...

So Justin was a suspect in his case and was charged with the crime? A jury was selected for his trial which consisted largely of racist black members?

The evidence which led to him being charged, irrelevant? So something happened in the court, which led to the jury realising Justin has a white partner? Did they observe something about him? What I mean is was it something they passively observed about him? or something he actively did that made it obvious?

Did they infer about the white mistress from Justin's clothing? Hairstyle?

Was one of his answers to any of the questions posed to him 'incriminating' to his 'betrayal'? Hesitation before answering a vital question? A reaction to a particular question that was evidently guilty / embarassed or evasive?
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Post Number: 1516
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Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 12:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Justin opposed to interracial relationships? Did he feel guilty for having a white mistress?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 2804
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Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 9:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noobdogg (Noobdogg)
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Post Number: 387
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Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 6:14 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Just to sum it up a bit...

So Justin was a suspect in his case and was charged with the crime? yes A jury was selected for his trial which consisted largely of racist black members?yes

The evidence which led to him being charged, irrelevant?yes So something happened in the court, which led to the jury realising Justin has a white partner? No. As the puzzle statement says, they did not know Did they observe something about him? no What I mean is was it something they passively observed about him? no or something he actively did that made it obvious? no

Did they infer about the white mistress from Justin's clothing? no Hairstyle? no

Was one of his answers to any of the questions posed to him 'incriminating' to his 'betrayal'? no Hesitation before answering a vital question? A reaction to a particular question that was evidently guilty / embarassed or evasive? no
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 12:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Was Justin opposed to interracial relationships? no Did he feel guilty for having a white mistress? no
Enjay (Enjay)
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Post Number: 853
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Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 9:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he do or say something because of having a white mistress that made him seem "less black" (if you know what I mean...did he have some habit perhaps, or something about his appearance, that is traditionally associated with white people that he picked up from his white mistress)? Did he seem to be "acting white"?
Did the jury feel that Justin wasn't behaving as a black person should? That he wasn't proud of being black? That Justin was somehow looking down on the black jury?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 2808
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Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 10:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 23, 2007 - 9:54 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Did he do or say something because of having a white mistress that made him seem "less black" (if you know what I mean...did he have some habit perhaps, or something about his appearance, that is traditionally associated with white people that he picked up from his white mistress)?no Did he seem to be "acting white"? no
Did the jury feel that Justin wasn't behaving as a black person should? no That he wasn't proud of being black? no That Justin was somehow looking down on the black jury? no
Bodo (Bodo)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 7:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did his having a white mistress somehow cause him to say something incriminating on the stand? Did he take the stand? Was testimony by another particular person/people relevant to his conviction?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 2809
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Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2007 - 10:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bodo (Bodo)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 7:45 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Did his having a white mistress somehow cause him to say something incriminating on the stand?no Did he take the stand? yes Was testimony by another particular person/people relevant to his conviction?possibly
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2007 - 11:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Justin say anything relevant in court? If so, did he say this because he had a white mistress? because he was racist?
Is it relevant what Justin wore when he went to court? Was he late? Did he see his mistress just before going to court? just after?
Did Justin at any point mention that he wasn't opposed to interracial relationships?
Justin's racism is relevant because: it affected his behaviour in court? It affected his behaviour when with his mistress? It affected his behaviour when murdering his victim?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2007 - 2:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2007 - 11:54 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Did Justin say anything relevant in court? yes If so, did he say this because he had a white mistress? no because he was racist? yes
Is it relevant what Justin wore when he went to court? no Was he late? irrelDid he see his mistress just before going to court? irrel just after? irrel
Did Justin at any point mention that he wasn't opposed to interracial relationships? no
Justin's racism is relevant because: it affected his behaviour in court? yesIt affected his behaviour when with his mistress? noIt affected his behaviour when murdering his victim? yes
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Post Number: 1556
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Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2007 - 3:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Justin choose his victim because he was racist? Did he leave some evidence behind at the crime scene because he was racist? Did he neglect to show remorse because he was racist?

Did the jury's racism lead to them convicting Justin? Lead to them recommending a harsher punishment?

If Justin hadn't had a white mistress, would he still have answered all the questions he was asked when in court in exactly the same way? Would his appearance in the courtroom have been the same? Would his mannerisms have been the same? Was his white mistress present in the courtroom?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2007 - 3:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2007 - 3:00 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Did Justin choose his victim because he was racist? yes, if there was a specific victim. See earlier replies Did he leave some evidence behind at the crime scene because he was racist? no Did he neglect to show remorse because he was racist? no

Did the jury's racism lead to them convicting Justin? no Lead to them recommending a harsher punishment? no

If Justin hadn't had a white mistress, would he still have answered all the questions he was asked when in court in exactly the same way?yope Would his appearance in the courtroom have been the same? yes Would his mannerisms have been the same? yes Was his white mistress present in the courtroom? yes
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2007 - 3:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

BLOOOOOPERRRRALLLLERTTTTTT!!!!Was his white mistress present in the courtroom? yes The answer should be no
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Post Number: 1558
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Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2007 - 3:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did his white mistress' presence in the courtroom affect his behaviour in some way? Was she there as a witness? a lawyer? a judge? a spectator? a member of the jury?
Was his white mistress recused from the jury because she was his mistress, resulting in the composition of the jury being unfavourable to Justin?
Would he have been asked different questions if he didn't have a white mistress?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2007 - 4:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2007 - 3:07 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Did his white mistress' presence in the courtroom affect his behaviour in some way? She was NOT present. See my above BLLLLLLOPERRRLLLLLERRRTTT!! Was she there as a witness? a lawyer? a judge? a spectator? a member of the jury? see above
Was his white mistress recused from the jury because she was his mistress, resulting in the composition of the jury being unfavourable to Justin? no
Would he have been asked different questions if he didn't have a white mistress?no
Bodo (Bodo)
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Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2007 - 6:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the defense counsel know about the mistress? Relevant?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2007 - 3:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

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Post Number: 2261
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Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2007 - 6:30 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Did the defense counsel know about the mistress? no Relevant? yesish
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Username: Bentarm

Post Number: 1568
Registered: 6-2001
Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2007 - 6:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If Justin had been a white man, would the jury have convicted him? If he'd been a black man with a black mistress?
Did Justin plead guilty?
Did Justin's mistress ask him to do anything relevant?
Was she planning to still be with him when he got out of jail?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 2828
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2007 - 10:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Username: Bentarm

Post Number: 1568
Registered: 6-2001

Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2007 - 6:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
If Justin had been a white man, would the jury have convicted him? no If he'd been a black man with a black mistress? no
Did Justin plead guilty? yes
Did Justin's mistress ask him to do anything relevant? no
Was she planning to still be with him when he got out of jail? irrel
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Post Number: 1578
Registered: 6-2001
Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2007 - 1:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ok, now I'm not entirely sure where we stand... if Justin pleaded guilty, wouldn't this mean the jury was irrelevant?
Would he still have pleaded guilty if he didn't have a white mistress? Did he have any relevant feelings of guilt?
Did he have a white mistress before he committed the crime?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Username: Nimue

Post Number: 2834
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2007 - 7:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Username: Bentarm

Post Number: 1578
Registered: 6-2001

Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2007 - 1:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
ok, now I'm not entirely sure where we stand... if Justin pleaded guilty, wouldn't this mean the jury was irrelevant? no!!!!!!
Would he still have pleaded guilty if he didn't have a white mistress? no Did he have any relevant feelings of guilt? no
Did he have a white mistress before he committed the crime? yes
Bodo (Bodo)
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Username: Bodo

Post Number: 2274
Registered: 2-2001
Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2007 - 7:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the jury for the penalty phase? Was going to jail a harsher sentence than he would've received sans mistress? A lighter one?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Username: Nimue

Post Number: 2836
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2007 - 7:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bodo (Bodo)
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Username: Bodo

Post Number: 2274
Registered: 2-2001

Posted on Wednesday, October 31, 2007 - 7:42 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Was the jury for the penalty phase? no Was going to jail a harsher sentence than he would've received sans mistress? yes A lighter one? no
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Username: Bentarm

Post Number: 1581
Registered: 6-2001
Posted on Friday, November 02, 2007 - 1:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So somehow Justin's having a white mistress caused him to plead guilty? And this was nothing to do with any feelings of remorse?
Did the mistress say anything relevant to Justin at any point? Did he feel any sense of obligation to her? was she pregnant?

If Justin had had a white mistress, but the jury had all been white, would he still have gone to jail?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Username: Nimue

Post Number: 2844
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Friday, November 02, 2007 - 9:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Username: Bentarm

Post Number: 1581
Registered: 6-2001

Posted on Friday, November 02, 2007 - 1:58 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
So somehow Justin's having a white mistress caused him to plead guilty? yes And this was nothing to do with any feelings of remorse? yes, nothiug
Did the mistress say anything relevant to Justin at any point? no Did he feel any sense of obligation to her? irrel was she pregnant? irrel

If Justin had had a white mistress, but the jury had all been white, would he still have gone to jail? yes
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Username: Bentarm

Post Number: 1583
Registered: 6-2001
Posted on Saturday, November 03, 2007 - 1:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Justin's mistress know the victim? Have any connection with the victim?
Was she a lawyer? Did she know any lawyers?
Did Justin's having a white mistress result in him thinking that pleading guilty would result in a lighter sentence for him? result in his thinking that the case against him was stronger than it was?
Did he plead guilty because he... thought this was the right thing to do? Thought this was the best thing to do for some selfish reason? thought this would result in a more preferable outcome for some third party? Didn't think he could afford to pay a lawyer for the whole trial? took some sort of "plea bargain"?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Username: Nimue

Post Number: 2845
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Sunday, November 04, 2007 - 7:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Username: Bentarm

Post Number: 1583
Registered: 6-2001

Posted on Saturday, November 03, 2007 - 1:06 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Did Justin's mistress know the victim? no Have any connection with the victim? no
Was she a lawyer? no Did she know any lawyers? irrel, but everyone in America knows some lawyers!!
Did Justin's having a white mistress result in him thinking that pleading guilty would result in a lighter sentence for him? yes result in his thinking that the case against him was stronger than it was? no
Did he plead guilty because he... thought this was the right thing to do?no Thought this was the best thing to do for some selfish reason? yes thought this would result in a more preferable outcome for some third party? no Didn't think he could afford to pay a lawyer for the whole trial? no took some sort of "plea bargain"? yes
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Username: Bentarm

Post Number: 1599
Registered: 6-2001
Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2007 - 11:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Justin think that his pleading guilty would result in a lighter sentence simply because he had a white mistress?
He knew the jury would be black and racist and thought they hold his white mistress against him?
Whereas in actual fact, they wouldn't have found out, and would have let him off?
Was his "plea bargain" just that he confessed in return for a lighter sentence than he might otherwise have got? Did he give the police information about anyone else?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Username: Nimue

Post Number: 2851
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2007 - 11:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Username: Bentarm

Post Number: 1599
Registered: 6-2001

Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2007 - 11:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Did Justin think that his pleading guilty would result in a lighter sentence simply because he had a white mistress? see next answer
He knew the jury would be black and racist and thought they hold his white mistress against him? yes
Whereas in actual fact, they wouldn't have found out, and would have let him off? yes
Was his "plea bargain" just that he confessed in return for a lighter sentence than he might otherwise have got?yes Did he give the police information about anyone else? no
*** SPOILER **********
Justin killed his racist while boss & his lawyer used a defense that the boss's racist treatment had driven J into a frenzy. This defense would have worked with the largely black NYC jury--except that ADA Jack McCoy, upon learning that Justin had a mistress who lived in Greenwich, CT, threatened to call her as a witness, whereupon J agreed to a plea bargain. In discussing the case afterwards, McC said to one of his colleagues, "As soon as she took the stand, all the sympathy his lawyer built up for J would have evaporated." "But how did you know she was white?" asked the colleague. " I didsn't know," said, McC (who is of 100% Irish desent), "but I'm not sure I'm white enough to live in Greenwich, CT." Please check out my new puzzle you-know-where.

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