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Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Post Number: 884
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Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 12:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

He failed where he wanted to succeed, and succeeded where he probably would have wanted to fail, but I think he would have been proud of the reason why.
Noobdogg (Noobdogg)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 12:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are all the 'he's the same person?
h? a? m?

To avoid early FA's i'll wait on the answer to the above.
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 1:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are all the 'he's the same person? yes
h? a? m? yes to all

To avoid early FA's i'll wait on the answer to the above. 'tis done!
Noobdogg (Noobdogg)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 1:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When you say he 'would have been proud of the reason why', do you mean he didn't actually know the reason? But if he had, he'd have been proud? Or are you guessing that he actually was proud and knew the reason?

This success where he likely seeked failure, do you mean something on the lines of, "You've succeeded in alienating your entire family!"?

Is he a person that actually lives/lived? Is he alive? or is this FYOI? Is his profession relevant?
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 1:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When you say he 'would have been proud of the reason why', do you mean he didn't actually know the reason?yes But if he had, he'd have been proud?Yes Or are you guessing that he actually was proud and knew the reason? No

This success where he likely seeked failure, do you mean something on the lines of, "You've succeeded in alienating your entire family!"? no

Is he a person that actually lives/lived?no Is he alive?No! or is this FYOI?No but... Is his profession relevant?no
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 1:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did his success lead to his death? Or did he literally succeed in dying? Did he succeed in being the first person to die in x way or something? Is the reason he doesn't know the reason why because he is dead? Did he try to do something he had always wanted to do, and die in the attempt?
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 1:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he succeed after he was dead? Did he fail after he was dead?
Was he a scientist? engineer? architect? painter? writer? philosopher?
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 1:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this from a book? Film? TV series?

You said he is not alive. Does that mean he is not, and has never been, alive? Or that he is no longer alive, ie he's dead?
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 2:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Enjay:

Did his success lead to his death? Yes Or did he literally succeed in dying?yes Did he succeed in being the first person to die in x way or something?no Is the reason he doesn't know the reason why because he is dead?Yes Did he try to do something he had always wanted to do, and die in the attempt?no

Bentarm:

Did he succeed after he was dead?no Did he fail after he was dead? no
Was he a scientist? engineer? architect? painter? writer? philosopher?all irrelevant

Eli:

Is this from a book? Film? TV series?none of these

You said he is not alive. Does that mean he is not, and has never been, alive?no Or that he is no longer alive, ie he's dead?Correct... Just to clarify ...He is a fictional character who has died... but not in a book a tv series or a movie! For ease of questions call him Willie
Enjay (Enjay)
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Post Number: 868
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Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 2:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So...Willie failed in an area where he wanted to succeed. He then "succeeded" in dying, although he would have liked to fail to die, but if he knew it he would have been proud of the reason why he died. Correct so far?
Is Willie a character from stories, like Robin Hood? From mythology or legend? Is he a well known fictional character?
Is it relevant how exactly Willie died? Accident? Murder? Suicide? Disease? Should I post one of those frighteningly detailed and graphic lists of causes of death?
Would the reason have made him proud because it proved him right about something? Showed he had achieved something?
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 2:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Enjay:

So...Willie failed in an area where he wanted to succeed. He then "succeeded" in dying, although he[probably] would have liked to fail to die, but if he knew it he would have been proud of the reason why he died. Correct so far?So far... with my addition
Is Willie a character from stories, like Robin Hood?no From mythology or legend?no Is he a well known fictional character?no...fictional may mislead...since I don't expect anyone to come upwith the source I'll give you that a song inspires this puzzle
Is it relevant how exactly Willie died?yes Accident? Murder? Suicide?Yes Disease? Should I post one of those frighteningly detailed and graphic lists of causes of death?I'm tempted to say yes to see if yours matches mine... he hanged himself
Would the reason have made him proud because it proved him right about something?yope Showed he had achieved something?no
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 3:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So he killed himself, but probably didn't want to die? Did he mean to kill himself? Did he change his mind as he was dying, by which time it was too late? Or do you mean that he probably would have wished that circumstances were different so he wouldn't have been driven to suicide? Did he want to attempt suicide, but hoped it wouldn't work? That someone would find him hanging himself before he died?

Did failing at the other thing result in shame for him?
Loss of money?
Physical or mental injury?
Did he kill himself because he failed at the other thing?
Did his death prove a point somehow?
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 3:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Enjay:

So he killed himself yes, but probably didn't want to die?Yope... explore the probably Did he mean to kill himself?yes Did he change his mind as he was dying, by which time it was too late?yope Or do you mean that he probably would have wished that circumstances were different so he wouldn't have been driven to suicide?no Did he want to attempt suicide, but hoped it wouldn't work?no That someone would find him hanging himself before he died?no

Did failing at the other thing result in shame for him? no
Loss of money? no
Physical or mental injury?no
Did he kill himself because he failed at the other thing? no
Did his death prove a point somehow?no
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 7:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

He probably didn't want to die...
You think he didn't, bht can't be sure?
Most people at the time thought he didn't, but couldn't be sure?
He wanted to die, unless a particular thing happened? If so, did it happen?
At the very moment when the final breath left his body, did he want to die? At any point in the process from deciding to kill himself to dying, did he want to live instead?
Bodo (Bodo)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 7:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Y.O.T.G.?
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 9:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Enjay:

He probably didn't want to die...Yup
You think he didn't, bht can't be sure? Yope
Most people at the time thought he didn't, but couldn't be sure? no
He wanted to die, unless a particular thing happened?no... If so, did it happen?Explore
At the very moment when the final breath left his body, did he want to die?Yes At any point in the process from deciding to kill himself to dying, did he want to live instead?No

Bodo:

Y.O.T.G.? Yeoman of the Guard? NO
Bodo (Bodo)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 24, 2007 - 11:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

G & S relevant to the puzzle at all? How 'bout classic lateral puzzles?
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2007 - 2:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bodo:

G & S relevant to the puzzle at all?no How 'bout classic lateral puzzles?No.... however I am not sure if I have or have not used this before as a basis for a puzzle so it may well ring a few bells for someone like you Bodo... however it is a while and I think this is a new reading of the source ... let me know by email if you recognise it!

I apologise in advance to anyone who does... it is not a registered classic...yet!
Bodo (Bodo)
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Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2007 - 6:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ahh...this is tickling my remaining brain cell into giving up something from the days when dinosaurs roamed the forum...something about a family trip, perchance?
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Friday, October 26, 2007 - 2:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bodo:

Ahh...this is tickling my remaining brain cell into giving up something from the days when dinosaurs roamed the forum...something about a family trip, perchance?Bodo... I am constantly amazed by... yes I did do a puzzle based on a family trip but it ain't this one... But Very well done for remembering that one!
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Posted on Friday, October 26, 2007 - 2:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

He probably didn't want to die... from hanging? Did he want to die in some other way? did he want to die earlier? later? than he actually did?
Did he want anyone else to die?
Had he ever tried to kill himself before the time he succeeded?
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Friday, October 26, 2007 - 6:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

He probably didn't want to die... from hanging? correct...explore Did he want to die in some other way? did he want to die earlier? later? than he actually did?no to the rest
Did he want anyone else to die? YES!
Had he ever tried to kill himself before the time he succeeded?No
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2007 - 12:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he want someone else to die before he did? as a result of his death? in the same place as him?
Is there some circumstance under which he would have wanted to die?
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2007 - 8:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he want someone else to die before he did?Yes as a result of his death?No in the same place as him? Yessish
Is there some circumstance under which he would have wanted to die?Yes
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2007 - 10:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the other person die?
When he died, did he think the other person had died? Did he only want to die if the other person was dead, so if he had known they were still alive he would have not wanted to hang himself?
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2007 - 4:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the other person die? Yes!
When he died, did he think the other person had died?Yes! Did he only want to die if the other person was dead, so if he had known they were still alive he would have not wanted to hang himself?Yes!
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2007 - 4:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the other person dead before Willie hung himself? Or afterwards? If afterwards, Willie thought that they were already dead and wouldn't have hung himself if he'd known the truth, correct? Did hekill the person? Did he only kill himself after they were deadbecause then his work was done? If they hadn't died, would he have waited for them to die (or gone and killed them) and then hung himself later? Is it relevant how the other person died?
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2007 - 4:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ooops Blooper alert....


****** BLOOPER!!!!******


Did the other person die? No!
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2007 - 4:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the other person dead before Willie hung himself?Sorry read blooper...my fault! Or afterwards? If afterwards, Willie thought that they were already dead and wouldn't have hung himself if he'd known the truth, correct?correct Did hekill the person?he tried to kill them yes Did he only kill himself after they were deadbecause then his work was done?as he saw it yes If they hadn't died, would he have waited for them to die (or gone and killed them) and then hung himself later?possibly Is it relevant how the other person died?Yes
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2007 - 4:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So Willie tried to kill someone, thought he had succeeded and so killed himself, not realising that the person was still alive? Is it relevant exactly what method Willie used to try and kill the person? Did he leave them for dead, nt realising they would recover? Was his method a more remote one, like sending them a bomb, and he assumed they would be dead but in fact they escaped?
Is the person he tried to kill human? adult? male?
The "failing where he wanted to succeed"...this refers to failing to kill the person? Or something else?
The "probably" wanting to die...is this because as it was he did want to die, thinking that the other person was dead, but if he'd known they were alive he wouldn't have wanted to die?
The being proud of the reason why...he would have been proud of the reason why the other person survived?
Is his motive for killing the person relevant? Was he asked to? Hired to? If so, did the person whpo asked him also tell him to kill himself after? Did he feel any guilt at the murder?
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Monday, October 29, 2007 - 1:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So Willie tried to kill someone, thought he had succeeded and so killed himself, not realising that the person was still alive?Yes Is it relevant exactly what method Willie used to try and kill the person?yes Did he leave them for dead, nt realising they would recover?yes Was his method a more remote one, like sending them a bomb, and he assumed they would be dead but in fact they escaped?no
Is the person he tried to kill human?Yes adult?yes male?no
The "failing where he wanted to succeed"...this refers to failing to kill the person?yes Or something else? no
The "probably" wanting to die...is this because as it was he did want to die, thinking that the other person was dead, but if he'd known they were alive he wouldn't have wanted to die?Yes
The being proud of the reason why...he would have been proud of the reason why the other person survived? No
Is his motive for killing the person relevant?yessish Was he asked to?no Hired to?no If so, did the person whpo asked him also tell him to kill himself after?n/a Did he feel any guilt at the murder?YES!!!
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Posted on Monday, October 29, 2007 - 1:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

He would have been proud of the reason why he succeeded? or the reason why the person he tried to kill survived? Or were these both for the same reason?
Did he invent the rope he used to hang himself? Would he have been proud the rope was strong enough to hang someone from? Or proud of his own noose-tying ability?

Did something change which left him feeling guilty at the murder? He found out the person he was killing didn't deserve to die? that he'd been in some way misinformed?
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Monday, October 29, 2007 - 9:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

He would have been proud of the reason why he succeeded?Yes or the reason why the person he tried to kill survived?yope Or were these both for the same reason? they need to be taken together to get it
Did he invent the rope he used to hang himself?I think the answer is yes but define invent in this case... Would he have been proud the rope was strong enough to hang someone from?yes Or proud of his own noose-tying ability? no

Did something change which left him feeling guilty at the murder?no He found out the person he was killing didn't deserve to die?No that he'd been in some way misinformed?No

At this point I should give you one further piece of information... the song it is based on is a comic one so you are looking ofr a slightly off base reason
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Monday, October 29, 2007 - 5:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

He made the rope himself? Wove it together? Is this ordinary rope? Did he attempt to strangle/hang/tie up the victim with other rope which broke after he had left the scene allowing the victim to escape and proving that his rope was better since he succeeded in hanging himself?
Did he know before committing his attempted murder that he would feel guilt, so planned to hang himself from the guilt? Or did the guilt come only after?
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 30, 2007 - 4:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Enjay:

He made the rope himself?Yes Wove it together?not exactly wove, but yes Is this ordinary rope? Did he attempt to strangle/hang/tie up the victim with other rope which broke after he had left the scene allowing the victim to escape and proving that his rope was better since he succeeded in hanging himself? This is VERY close, but still wrong in some aspects...
Did he know before committing his attempted murder that he would feel guilt, so planned to hang himself from the guilt? Or did the guilt come only after?the guilt came after
Bodo (Bodo)
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Posted on Saturday, November 03, 2007 - 10:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok, I'm trying to stub this out - "He failed where he wanted to succeed" was when he tried to hang someone but it failed (due to failure of the...knot tying?); "and succeeded where he probably would have wanted to fail" means he would've rather not actually died from trying to kill himself (sounds a bit strange, don't it); "but I think he would have been proud of the reason why." means that...ok, that's the part we ain't got yet, innit? Was the reason he failed (in the murder attempt) not because of something what he'd done wrong? Because the victim survived and went on to do good stuff, like?
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Sunday, November 04, 2007 - 2:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok, I'm trying to stub this out go ahead!- "He failed where he wanted to succeed" was when he tried to hang someone but it failed (due to failure of the...knot tying?)FA; "and succeeded where he probably would have wanted to fail" means he would've rather not actually died from trying to kill himself (sounds a bit strange, don't it)yes it does...but bear in mind the rest...; "but I think he would have been proud of the reason why." means that...ok, that's the part we ain't got yet, innit?correct...but very very close! Was the reason he failed (in the murder attempt) not because of something what he'd done wrong?love the English...but no...not because he did something wrong! Because the victim survived and went on to do good stuff, like?well the victim survived at least!
Bodo (Bodo)
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Posted on Sunday, November 04, 2007 - 4:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The victim survived because...someone rescued him (her?)? The thing he'd hung 'em from broke? They had an exceptionally tough neck? The rope was too long? Was there some fault with the rope?
Enjay (Enjay)
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Posted on Sunday, November 04, 2007 - 4:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Not sure if we've actually cleared this up yet...did he hang the other victim? Or kill them in some other way? Was a rope involved in their death? A rope made by him?
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Monday, November 05, 2007 - 1:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bodo:

The victim survived because...someone rescued him (her?)? The thing he'd hung 'em from broke? They had an exceptionally tough neck? The rope was too long? Was there some fault with the rope?all FA / it will be obvious!

Enjay:

Not sure if we've actually cleared this up yet we haven't!...did he hang the other victim?no Or kill them in some other way?yope Was a rope involved in their death?no A rope made by him?No... and remember they didn't die ... hence the yope!
Bodo (Bodo)
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Posted on Monday, November 05, 2007 - 3:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The murder attempt - bomb? Gun? Knife? Sword? Axe? Mace? Chainsaw? Machete? Ice pick? Blunt instrument? Bagpipes? Rabid ferret introduced to ferret-legging contest? Trampled by zebras? Poison? Rigged the carriage so the wheels would come off when the brake was applied?
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Posted on Monday, November 05, 2007 - 11:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bodo:

The murder attempt - bomb? Gun? Knife? Sword? Axe? Mace? Chainsaw? Machete? Ice pick? Blunt instrument? Bagpipes? Rabid ferret introduced to ferret-legging contest? Trampled by zebras? Poison? Rigged the carriage so the wheels would come off when the brake was applied? bit of a short list there Bodo!..knife is closest. To save a lot of wandering about the point...it was a cutthroat razor
Bodo (Bodo)
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Post Number: 2328
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Posted on Tuesday, November 06, 2007 - 4:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was that the attempt? A slit throat? Did it fail because he did a bad job of it? Because aid came before the victim could expire?
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Post Number: 928
Registered: 6-2001
Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2007 - 12:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was that the attempt?Yes A slit throat?Yes..oops that one slipped out...still that is the name of it! Did it fail because he did a bad job of it?no... Because aid came before the victim could expire?yes...but why?
Bodo (Bodo)
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Post Number: 2332
Registered: 2-2001
Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2007 - 6:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Er...blood dripped down through the floorboards and alerted the person below? A passerby heard a nasty gurgling sound and sprang into action? The attempt occured near a hospital? Did Willie attract attention to the place? Did he tell anyone?
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Post Number: 931
Registered: 6-2001
Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2007 - 6:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bodo: Er...blood dripped down through the floorboards and alerted the person below? A passerby heard a nasty gurgling sound and sprang into action? The attempt occured near a hospital? Did Willie attract attention to the place? Did he tell anyone?noish to all... remember I said it was a off base reason...
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Post Number: 1601
Registered: 6-2001
Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2007 - 11:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the reason have something to do with the failure of some rope-like object to perform its intended fuction?
Did he accidentally (or otherwise?) inform someone that he'd slit his intended victim's throat? Had he actually slit their throat? Did he miss their throat? Was the razor not sharp enough?
Did he forget to lock the door after he left them for dead? Did they manage to call for help in some way? using some rope-like object?
Did he actually hang himself with a rope by the way? With a tie? some other item of clothing? relevant exactly what it was?
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Post Number: 932
Registered: 6-2001
Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2007 - 4:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bentarm:
Did the reason have something to do with the failure of some rope-like object to perform its intended fuction?No
Did he accidentally (or otherwise?) inform someone that he'd slit his intended victim's throat?no Had he actually slit their throat?not enough beacuse...? Did he miss their throat?no Was the razor not sharp enough?YES! now why?
Did he forget to lock the door after he left them for dead?no Did they manage to call for help in some way?not realy relevant..but yes using some rope-like object? no
Did he actually hang himself with a rope by the way?now why didn't you ask rope like object? that would have got a yes... but not a proper rope! With a tie?no some other item of clothing?no relevant exactly what it was?Yes!

there's a wee hint I should give at this point to avoid it descending into a mire... The song is set in Belfast, but with intelligent adaption could work in most places.
Bodo (Bodo)
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Post Number: 2339
Registered: 2-2001
Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2007 - 5:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Had he used the razor for cutting something that dulled it? Had he done a poor job of stropping it? Was the thing he hanged himself with somehow related to the razor? To the razor's being dull?
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Username: Bentarm

Post Number: 1607
Registered: 6-2001
Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2007 - 7:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So he made the rope-like object himself? The rope-like object: string? a curtain? a towel? a sheet? an ab-stretcher? (I'm scanning my room for things I could hang myself with if necessary...) something that would be found in a house? in a workplace?
Is it relevant who made the razor? the person he killed? some rival of his in some sense?
Is it relevant whether he was Catholic or Protestant? Perhaps the razor blade was made by someone who was the other one of those two to whichever one he was (if you get my meaning)?
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Post Number: 933
Registered: 6-2001
Posted on Friday, November 09, 2007 - 11:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bodo:

Had he used the razor for cutting something that dulled it?no Had he done a poor job of stropping it?No Was the thing he hanged himself with somehow related to the razor?no To the razor's being dull?No

Bentarm:

So he made the rope-like object himself?Yes The rope-like object: string? a curtain? a towel? a sheet?this one an ab-stretcher? (I'm scanning my room for things I could hang myself with if necessary...)Now steady on there... the puzzle ain't so hard you have to hang yourself! something that would be found in a house? in a workplace?
Is it relevant who made the razor?Yes! the person he killed?No some rival of his in some sense? read on...
Is it relevant whether he was Catholic or Protestant?YES! Protestant Perhaps the razor blade was made by someone who was the other one of those two to whichever one he was (if you get my meaning)?Yes...now how would he know that?
Petjan (Petjan)
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Post Number: 31
Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Friday, November 09, 2007 - 3:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

After attempted murder, did he carefully conceal the razor? or carelessly discard it.

Did he come in contact with someone on his way to hanging himself? If yes, a Catholic?
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Username: Bentarm

Post Number: 1612
Registered: 6-2001
Posted on Friday, November 09, 2007 - 3:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So did he actually make the sheet himself? Or did he take a sheet and make it into a rope? Was the sheet made by a fellow protestant?
Could he tell that the razor blade was made by a Catholic person just because it wasn't high enough quality to kill his wife? Was it made by anyone in particular? Anything relevant about the maker other than their catholicism?
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Username: Tsoram1970

Post Number: 936
Registered: 6-2001
Posted on Saturday, November 10, 2007 - 11:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Petjan:

After attempted murder, did he carefully conceal the razor? or carelessly discard it. irrelevant

Did he come in contact with someone on his way to hanging himself? If yes, a Catholic?besides the attempted murder victim? no and to avoid an FA no he had not decided to kill himself before the attempted murder

Bentarm:

So did he actually make the sheet himself?no Or did he take a sheet and make it into a rope? yes Was the sheet made by a fellow protestant?close... close...
Could he tell that the razor blade was made by a Catholic person just because it wasn't high enough quality to kill his wife?no Was it made by anyone in particular?no Anything relevant about the maker other than their catholicism?it may not have been a catholic...but he had reason to think it was... now why?
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Username: Bentarm

Post Number: 1617
Registered: 6-2001
Posted on Tuesday, November 13, 2007 - 2:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the other guy was probably Catholic but not necessarily... is the Unionist/Republican divide relevant? The North/South divide? Maybe the razor maker was a Republican/Southerner and the sheet-maker was a Unionist/Ulsterman?
Tsoram1970 (Tsoram1970)
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Username: Tsoram1970

Post Number: 937
Registered: 6-2001
Posted on Tuesday, November 13, 2007 - 1:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the other guy was probably Catholic but not necessarily... is the Unionist/Republican divide relevant? The North/South divide? Maybe the razor maker was a Republican/Southerner and the sheet-maker was a Unionist/Ulsterman?I think this is close enough....

************ Spoiler ***************

According to one version of a song here William Bloat lived on the Shankill Road, a VERY Protestant/Unionist area of Belfast. His wife was one of the most annoying things about his life, so he decided to kill her, and slit her throat with a razor blade. Having done this the sight of the blood and the thought of what the law might do to him made him decide to finish the job and kill himself. So he took the sheet from his wife's feet and made a rope, which he then useed to hang himself. The last verse of the song (in this version) goes:

But the strangest turn
To the whole concern
Is only just beginning
For though he went to hell,
She got well
And is still alive and sinning
For the razor blade was Free State made
But the rope was Belfast Linen!

Other versions say that the razor blade is german made, or korean made or... Actually I found out while answering to this puzzle that the original version is the German made one, but that didn't quite fit my puzzle statement so I kept to the slightly more political one....

The song is called The Ballad of William Bloat. There are at least 2 versions of it on youtube!

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