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Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Post Number: 1150
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 7:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

John breaks the law in order to carry out a transaction, even though he knows he will lose out financially from the deal. What's going on?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Post Number: 1151
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 7:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh no! I missed my name out of the title. A visit from a friendly mod would be most welcome. Sorry!
Enjay (Enjay)
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Post Number: 987
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Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 9:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Will he benefit non-financially from the deal? Will someone else benefit from it and he is doing it for them?
Was John expecting to get caught for breaking the law? Was he caught? Relevant what the punishment is/would be?

Oh, and is John H/A/M?
Tweek (Tweek)
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Post Number: 214
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Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 9:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Given circumstances similar to the puzzle, would I be able to walk into my bank and complete this transaction? Could I do it over the phone? through the intarwebs?

Does this transaction involve money being transferred between accounts? between people? between entities? Goods? Services?

Is he simply purchasing something?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Post Number: 1152
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Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 10:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Will he benefit non-financially from the deal? yope Will someone else benefit from it and he is doing it for them? yes-ish
Was John expecting to get caught for breaking the law? no Was he caught? no Relevant what the punishment is/would be? not really

Oh, and is John H/A/M? yes, yes, yes

Given circumstances similar to the puzzle, would I be able to walk into my bank and complete this transaction? no Could I do it over the phone? possibly but unlikely through the intarwebs? possibly but even more unlikely

Does this transaction involve money being transferred between accounts? no between people? this, certainly between entities? Goods? Services? not really these

Is he simply purchasing something? not really, no
Tweek (Tweek)
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Post Number: 215
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Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 12:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, the transaction is in person most likely? John trades money for something? for information?

John doesn't expect to be caught because he has planned the transaction well enough in advance? or because he doesn't know the transaction is illegal?

If the proper authorities knew of this transaction, they would arrest John and his contact, right? And John would probably be charged with breaking some law? Is this law in place in an attempt to prevent immediate harm to the general public? to prevent conflicts of interest from influencing important decision-making? to help ensure a fair playing field? Is the 'law' more like a regulation that helps with standardization of some part of an industry? Or is the law mostly in place mostly because any politician who wouldn't support it would suffer seemingly unnecessary political damage?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Post Number: 1153
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Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 12:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, the transaction is in person most likely? yes John trades money for something? yes, for svv of 'something' for information? no

John doesn't expect to be caught because he has planned the transaction well enough in advance? not this or because he doesn't know the transaction is illegal? not this

If the proper authorities knew of this transaction, they would arrest John and his contact, right? possibly And John would probably be charged with breaking some law? yes Is this law in place in an attempt to prevent immediate harm to the general public? yes-ish, for svv of harm, I suppose to prevent conflicts of interest from influencing important decision-making? good idea but no to help ensure a fair playing field? no Is the 'law' more like a regulation that helps with standardization of some part of an industry? no Or is the law mostly in place mostly because any politician who wouldn't support it would suffer seemingly unnecessary political damage? not really
Beccaann (Beccaann)
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Post Number: 2036
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 6:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is he purchasing a service? Is it this service that is illegal? Would the person from whom he is purchasing the service be less likely to go to jail because of it? Just as likely? More likely? Is this other person HAF? Does your title have another meaning other than implying that the puzzle may go quickly?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Post Number: 1154
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Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 7:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is he purchasing a service? no Is it this service that is illegal? no Would the person from whom he is purchasing the service be less likely to go to jail because of it? n/a, as he is not purchasing a service Just as likely? More likely? Is this other person HAF? yes to all Does your title have another meaning other than implying that the puzzle may go quickly? possibly and very vaguely, as you mention it, but I meant it in the literal sense of an easy puzzle
Gourami (Gourami)
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Post Number: 2
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Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 10:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does this involve money laundering? Currency exchange? Is he ultimately trading money for money in some way?

Has he been threatened if he doesn't carry out this transaction? Is he being bribed by another party if he does it?
Tweek (Tweek)
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Post Number: 217
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Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 11:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does John expect to avoid prosecution for this transaction? And if so, is it relevant why he expects this? Is it because the proper authorities have been bought out? Is it because no one really cares enough to press charges? Did this transaction take place in the open?

John knows the transaction is illegal in advance?

Does John gain respect in some way by carrying out this transaction? Social standing? Trust?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Post Number: 1155
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Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 7:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does this involve money laundering? no Currency exchange? no Is he ultimately trading money for money in some way? no

Has he been threatened if he doesn't carry out this transaction? no Is he being bribed by another party if he does it? no

Does John expect to avoid prosecution for this transaction? irrel And if so, is it relevant why he expects this? no Is it because the proper authorities have been bought out? nothing like this Is it because no one really cares enough to press charges? no Did this transaction take place in the open? yes

John knows the transaction is illegal in advance? FA!

Does John gain respect in some way by carrying out this transaction? possibly this Social standing? not really this Trust? possibly this
Blazingphoenix (Blazingphoenix)
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Post Number: 165
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Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 7:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This transaction will place him in debt, yes?
Is he already in debt?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Post Number: 1156
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Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 8:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This transaction will place him in debt, yes?
Is he already in debt? both irrelevant, I'm afraid
Tweek (Tweek)
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Post Number: 218
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Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 9:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is John's loyalty being tested?

Is the transaction illegal? Does John know this before knowing about it? before deciding to go through with it? before actually completing it? after completing it?

What would be most related to this puzzle:
the mafia?
small-time pushers?
a stock brokerage firm?
a cult? (Scientology?)
a political group?
man-bites-dog story du jour?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Post Number: 1158
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Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 10:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is John's loyalty being tested? no, but good thinking

Is the transaction illegal? no: that sorts out the FA Does John know this before knowing about it? yes before deciding to go through with it? yes before actually completing it? yes after completing it? yes

What would be most related to this puzzle:
the mafia?
small-time pushers?
a stock brokerage firm?
a cult? (Scientology?)
a political group?
man-bites-dog story du jour?

None of those, I'm afraid
Gourami (Gourami)
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Post Number: 15
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Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2008 - 3:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So he must do something illegal in order to be able to have a legal transaction?

Is the illegal thing: getting to a certain place?talking to someone? obtaining something? money?

Is anyone's life at stake in this puzzle?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Post Number: 1159
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Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2008 - 11:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So he must do something illegal in order to be able to have a legal transaction? yes

Is the illegal thing: getting to a certain place? not quite talking to someone? not quite this either obtaining something? no money? no

Is anyone's life at stake in this puzzle? yes, possibly: good q
Grainbeer (Grainbeer)
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Posted on Sunday, March 02, 2008 - 11:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is he handing over money to this other person? His mother? Wife? Daughter? Other female relative? Fiancée? Girlfriend? Business contact?
Gourami (Gourami)
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Posted on Sunday, March 02, 2008 - 3:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there a hostage situation? Is he buying medicine? Medical care of any kind? Protection?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Post Number: 1163
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Posted on Sunday, March 02, 2008 - 5:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is he handing over money to this other person? yes His mother? no Wife? no Daughter? no Other female relative? no Fiancée? no Girlfriend? no Business contact? no Is there a hostage situation? no Is he buying medicine? no Medical care of any kind? no Protection? this is certainly closest
Blazingphoenix (Blazingphoenix)
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Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2008 - 1:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it protection for him or someone else?
Can we have a hint?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Post Number: 1179
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Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2008 - 2:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it protection for him or someone else? this
Can we have a hint? Ah, I thought this puzzle had been forgotten, and I almost forgot it myself!

As you've resuscitated it, I'll offer a

*** RECAP ***

John gives a sum of money to another person (an adult female, but not his mother, sister, girlfriend or wife), but he does not receive any goods, information or service in return. However, she must perform a specific action in return for the payment. In order to perform the transaction, he breaks the law.
Grainbeer (Grainbeer)
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Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2008 - 4:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The adult female: a fortune teller? a voodoo witch? an official representative which he needs to bribe?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Post Number: 1180
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Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2008 - 4:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The adult female: a fortune teller? a voodoo witch? an official representative which he needs to bribe? none of these, though the voodoo witch is a splendid idea
Grainbeer (Grainbeer)
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Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2008 - 5:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the adult female (let us call her Stella) the final receptor of the money? Or is Stella an agent who passes on (most of) the money?

If she is not giving anything to John directly, is she giving goods, information or services to someone else?

Is Stella´s effort only a spiritual one? Like thinking of somebody´s wellbeing? Will she perform a physical manifestation at all?

Is she also breaking the law, or is John the only one? A third party breaking the law also?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Post Number: 1181
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Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2008 - 6:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the adult female (let us call her Stella) the final receptor of the money? this one Or is Stella an agent who passes on (most of) the money? no

If she is not giving anything to John directly, is she giving goods, information or services to someone else? no

Is Stella´s effort only a spiritual one? no Like thinking of somebody´s wellbeing? no Will she perform a physical manifestation at all? yes, she performs an actual, observable action in return for the money

Is she also breaking the law, no or is John the only one? yes A third party breaking the law also? yes, there is a relevant third party who is breaking the law
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 08, 2008 - 3:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Stella a pan handler? a busker? Does this transaction take place indoors or outdoors? Is this relevant?

Forgive me if i've repeated any questions as i took the easy route and just read your recap!!!
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 08, 2008 - 5:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Stella a pan handler? no a busker? no Does this transaction take place indoors or outdoors? outdoors Is this relevant? indeed
Sunshine (Sunshine)
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Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 9:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are parking meters relevant? Parking restrictions? Motor transport at all?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 10:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are parking meters relevant? no Parking restrictions? no Motor transport at all? yes
Buzzard (Buzzard)
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Posted on Sunday, May 18, 2008 - 8:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant where in the world this takes place? Would John's illegal action be illegal just about anywhere? Or only in certain places?

Is immigration relevant? The crossing of national borders?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Sunday, May 18, 2008 - 11:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant where in the world this takes place? yes-ish Would John's illegal action be illegal just about anywhere? no Or only in certain places? yes, it's illegal in some countries but not in others

Is immigration relevant? The crossing of national borders? neither of those
Liquizt (Liquizt)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 28, 2008 - 5:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

He breaks the law so that he may perform the transaction? The transaction itself is illegal?

John is attempting to prevent a crime? if so: intended by the third party?
John is attempting to prevent the prosecution of the third party?
Third party = 1 person? If so: person male? female? relevent?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 28, 2008 - 9:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

He breaks the law so that he may perform the transaction? yes The transaction itself is illegal? no

John is attempting to prevent a crime? yes-ish if so: intended by the third party? yes-ish
John is attempting to prevent the prosecution of the third party? no
Third party = 1 person? yes If so: person male? yes female? no relevent? yes-ish
Liquizt (Liquizt)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 28, 2008 - 9:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Stella's trade typically performed at night? during the day? relevent? on street-corners?

Can we call the third party Tim?

Are ages relevent?

Does John know Tim?
Does Tim know John?
Does John know Stella before the transaction?
Does Stella know John before the transaction?
Does Tim know Stella? before the transaction?
Does Stella know Tim? before the transaction?

Is John paying Stella to do business with Tim? to refuse to do business with Tim?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Wednesday, May 28, 2008 - 11:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Stella's trade typically performed at night? this during the day? and sometimes this relevent? somewhat on street-corners? yes, sometimes

Can we call the third party Tim? yes, of course

Are ages relevent? no

Does John know Tim? no
Does Tim know John? no
Does John know Stella before the transaction? possible, but irrel
Does Stella know John before the transaction? possible but irrel
Does Tim know Stella? before the transaction?
Does Stella know Tim? before the transaction?
all possible but irrelevant

Is John paying Stella to do business with Tim? no to refuse to do business with Tim? no, but this is a more promising idea

good questions
Rabrab (Rabrab)
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Posted on Monday, June 02, 2008 - 5:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just to make sure that what I think is the situation really is the situation:
Stella is a prostitute?
Is Tim her pimp?

Is John giving her the money to try to give her a chance to get away from Tim?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Monday, June 02, 2008 - 8:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just to make sure that what I think is the situation really is the situation:
Stella is a prostitute? yes!
Is Tim her pimp? no

Is John giving her the money to try to give her a chance to get away from Tim? not quite, but you are almost there. If you can suss out who Tim is and what the broken law is, you have it
Rabrab (Rabrab)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 03, 2008 - 9:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the illegal act that John commits "soliciting a prostitute"?

Is Stellas's age relevant? Is she underage?

The motor transport:
a privately owned car?

If yes, John's? Stella's? Tim's? someone else's?

a cab? a bus? a limo?

Is Stella expected to get into the vehicle in the course of doing what John is paying her for?
Is Tim?
Is John?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 03, 2008 - 8:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the illegal act that John commits "soliciting a prostitute"? no, he doesn't actually do this

Is Stellas's age relevant? Is she underage? no to both

The motor transport:
a privately owned car? yes

If yes, John's? yes Stella's? Tim's? someone else's?

a cab? a bus? a limo?

Is Stella expected to get into the vehicle in the course of doing what John is paying her for? no, good q
Is Tim? no
Is John? no
Puzzleguy (Puzzleguy)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 9:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Tim a male? female? group of people?
Rabrab (Rabrab)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 1:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Stella the only prostitute who can do what John wants? would any prostitute serve his purpose? Would any other non-prostitute person be able to do the same thing? In other words, is the important hting about Stella
that she's Stella?
that she's a prostitute?
that she's on the street? (would, say, a busker, work?)

Is Tim already breaking (has already broken?) the law and John is trying to protect him from prosecution?
or is John trying to prevent Tim from breaking the law in the first place?

Are John and Tim related? Does John know Tim personally (friend, roommate, coworker?) Relevant?

Is John trying to protect Tim purely out of concern for Tim? is there some other reason?

If there is some other reason,
is John trying to make a point about Tim himself?
make a point about the law that Tim is breaking?
make a point about the police? or the legal system?
purely out of altruism (i.e., John would attempt to protect anybody who was in the same circumstances as Tim?)
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Thursday, June 05, 2008 - 12:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Tim a male? yes female? group of people?

Is Stella the only prostitute who can do what John wants? no or yope would any prostitute serve his purpose? not really ... hard to answer given the wording of the q Would any other non-prostitute person be able to do the same thing? yes, assuredly so In other words, is the important hting about Stella
that she's Stella? no
that she's a prostitute? yopish
that she's on the street? yes (would, say, a busker, work?) again, yopish

Is Tim already breaking (has already broken?) the law yes and John is trying to protect him from prosecution? no

or is John trying to prevent Tim from breaking the law in the first place? no

Are John and Tim related? no Does John know Tim personally (friend, roommate, coworker?) no Relevant? no-ish

Is John trying to protect Tim purely out of concern for Tim? no is there some other reason? no

If there is some other reason,
is John trying to make a point about Tim himself?
make a point about the law that Tim is breaking?
make a point about the police? or the legal system? he isn't really trying to make a point
purely out of altruism yes (i.e., John would attempt to protect anybody who was in the same circumstances as Tim?)but not this: I wonder if a juicy FA has sneaked in :-)
Rabrab (Rabrab)
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Posted on Thursday, June 05, 2008 - 5:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Probably. 8-(

Let's see if I can rephrase a couple of those yope-ish and yope questions...


It's yopish that Stella is John's choice because she's a prostitute... but it's Yes that the important thing about her is that she's on the street.

Is this because John has no time to look for someone who might be willing to do something for him for money. He can safely assume that a prostitute on the street will be; a busker might be, and someone who is, say, sitting and having a cup of coffee and reading the paper, as likely as not won't be?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Post Number: 1338
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Posted on Thursday, June 05, 2008 - 6:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It's yopish that Stella is John's choice because she's a prostitute... but it's Yes that the important thing about her is that she's on the street. yes

Is this because John has no time to look for someone who might be willing to do something for him for money. no He can safely assume that a prostitute on the street will be; a busker might be, and someone who is, say, sitting and having a cup of coffee and reading the paper, as likely as not won't be? he doesn't know for sure that any of those would do this thing in exchange for money, but any of them could do it, and probably would
Sunshine (Sunshine)
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Post Number: 753
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Posted on Saturday, June 28, 2008 - 10:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does Stella speak in the course of performing the action? Does she use a camera? Is she seen performing the action by Tim? Has Tim damaged John's car? Stolen it?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Post Number: 1348
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Posted on Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 8:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does Stella speak in the course of performing the action? no, or irrel Does she use a camera? no Is she seen performing the action by Tim? no, or irrel Has Tim damaged John's car? no Stolen it? no
Odomwm (Odomwm)
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Post Number: 3
Registered: 7-2008
Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2008 - 9:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it against the law for John to approach a prostitute for parole or probationary reasons?

Is it against the law for John to have the money that he has?

Is it against the law for john to be in the location that he is in with Stella?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Post Number: 1354
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Posted on Wednesday, July 09, 2008 - 12:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it against the law for John to approach a prostitute for parole or probationary reasons? no, not this

Is it against the law for John to have the money that he has? no, but a good thought

Is it against the law for john to be in the location that he is in with Stella? yes-ish
Odomwm (Odomwm)
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Post Number: 5
Registered: 7-2008
Posted on Saturday, July 12, 2008 - 12:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You answered yes-ish that it is against the law for john to be in the place that he is in with Stella:

Is it illegal for him to be in this place at all?
Does Stella's presence make it illegal?
Is it illegal for Stella to be in this place?

This place we refer to:
relevant the particular country?
in a city?
In a smaller area?

is Tim aware of the transaction?
is Tim nearby?
say, within earshot?
withint walking distance?
same country?

Is the only reason John looses out financially from the deal because he had to pay Stella money o=r is there more to it than that?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Post Number: 1355
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Posted on Saturday, July 12, 2008 - 10:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You answered yes-ish that it is against the law for john to be in the place that he is in with Stella:

Is it illegal for him to be in this place at all? no, only in the specific context
Does Stella's presence make it illegal? no
Is it illegal for Stella to be in this place? no

This place we refer to:
relevant the particular country? yes, in that it's a true story, but it could apply almost anywhere
in a city? yes
In a smaller area? well, the red-light district of the city

is Tim aware of the transaction? no
is Tim nearby? yes! good q
say, within earshot? no
withint walking distance? perhaps
same country? yes

Is the only reason John looses out financially from the deal because he had to pay Stella money simply this o=r is there more to it than that?
Odomwm (Odomwm)
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Post Number: 6
Registered: 7-2008
Posted on Monday, July 14, 2008 - 5:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Tim:
a police officer?
another prostitute?
connected to Stella?
coneected to John?

was the transaction premeditated?
did John do this spur-of-the-moment?
did John come to this place knowing he would make this transaction?
had John been in the redlight district for long before completing the transaction?
did he immediately leave the red light district?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Post Number: 1357
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Posted on Monday, July 14, 2008 - 9:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Tim:
a police officer?
another prostitute?
connected to Stella?
coneected to John? none of these: finding out who Tim is will be the key to the puzzle

was the transaction premeditated? unlikely
did John do this spur-of-the-moment? most likely this
did John come to this place knowing he would make this transaction? see above: he probably decided to perform the transaction when he saw Stella
had John been in the redlight district for long before completing the transaction? irrel
did he immediately leave the red light district? probably but irrel
Odomwm (Odomwm)
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Post Number: 8
Registered: 7-2008
Posted on Tuesday, July 15, 2008 - 4:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was John aware of Tim's presence before the transaction?
was John made aware of Tim's presence during the transaction?
was John only made aware of Tim's presence after the transaction?
was John ever aware of Tim's presence?
(by "presence" I mean because he was nearby)

is Tim's occupation relevant?
is Tim's physical appearance relevant?

is Stella's physical appearance relevant?

I'm not sure if it's been asked before, but is Tim human-Adult-male?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Post Number: 1360
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Wednesday, July 16, 2008 - 1:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was John aware of Tim's presence before the transaction? yes
was John made aware of Tim's presence during the transaction? no
was John only made aware of Tim's presence after the transaction? no
was John ever aware of Tim's presence? yes
(by "presence" I mean because he was nearby)

is Tim's occupation relevant? for svv of 'occupation', yes, but not his job
is Tim's physical appearance relevant? not at all

is Stella's physical appearance relevant? no

I'm not sure if it's been asked before, but is Tim human-Adult-male? yes to all
Odomwm (Odomwm)
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Post Number: 12
Registered: 7-2008
Posted on Thursday, July 17, 2008 - 4:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would you consider the time at which this took place a normal, everyday time in the red light district?
Or is there something out of the ordinary going on?
That everyone is aware of?
That Tim is aware of?
That john is aware of?
That Stella is aware of?

Would you say that John was "just passing through" on his day-to-day business when he decided to carry out this transaction?

Is there something special about Tim that I need to figure out in order to solve the puzzle?
His job?
Something in his past?
His relationship with John?
Where he is located at the time?
What he is doing at the time?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Post Number: 1362
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Thursday, July 17, 2008 - 9:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would you consider the time at which this took place a normal, everyday time in the red light district? not exactly
Or is there something out of the ordinary going on? yes, a particular set of circumstances that is relatively uncommon
That everyone is aware of? yes
That Tim is aware of?
That john is aware of?
That Stella is aware of?

Would you say that John was "just passing through" on his day-to-day business when he decided to carry out this transaction? yes

Is there something special about Tim that I need to figure out in order to solve the puzzle? that's one way of putting it, yes
His job? no
Something in his past? yes, again that's one way of putting it
His relationship with John? no, he has no relationship with John
Where he is located at the time? yes-ish
What he is doing at the time? yes-ish
Odomwm (Odomwm)
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Post Number: 15
Registered: 7-2008
Posted on Thursday, July 17, 2008 - 9:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is Tim some type of criminal?

would you consider what John did to be heroic or altruistic toward Tim?
toward Stella?

can John see Tim at the time of the transaction?
before?
after?

is Tim doing something dangerous to himself?
to others?

would Stella probably be suprised when John offered her money to carry out whatever she was paid to do?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Post Number: 1365
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Thursday, July 17, 2008 - 10:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is Tim some type of criminal? yes!

would you consider what John did to be heroic or altruistic toward Tim? no
toward Stella? altruistic, yes; heroic might be going a bit far

can John see Tim at the time of the transaction? irrel but unlikely
before? ditto
after? ditto

is Tim doing something dangerous to himself?
to others? this

would Stella probably be suprised when John offered her money to carry out whatever she was paid to do? yes, according to the report, she was rather surprised

You're within a whisker of finishing this off: care to do the honours?
Odomwm (Odomwm)
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Post Number: 18
Registered: 7-2008
Posted on Thursday, July 17, 2008 - 11:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is Tim threatening Stella in any way?
does Stella realize that John is helping her?

I know i'm missing something. my lateral insight is failing me!

is Tim a bank robber?
a carjacker?
other type of thief?
a terrorist?
bomber?
general lunatic?

if john had not carried out this transaction, would Stella have died?
would she have been seriously injured?
just injured?

Do john's actions help other people besides Stella?

is John paying Stella to do something he would not be able to do himself?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Post Number: 1366
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Thursday, July 17, 2008 - 11:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is Tim threatening Stella in any way? no, but ...
does Stella realize that John is helping her? when he proposes the transaction, yes

I know i'm missing something. my lateral insight is failing me! I think everybody has been overthinking this one :-) This is what happens when you use the Q word in the title.

is Tim a bank robber?
a carjacker?
other type of thief?
a terrorist?
bomber? no to these
general lunatic? but this last is closest

if john had not carried out this transaction, would Stella have died? not necessarily, but ...
would she have been seriously injured?
just injured? ditto to these

Do john's actions help other people besides Stella? no

is John paying Stella to do something he would not be able to do himself? no
Odomwm (Odomwm)
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Post Number: 19
Registered: 7-2008
Posted on Thursday, July 17, 2008 - 11:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm starting to get lateral heartburn from all this. I'll be thinking this over while I go to work and i'll get back to you with a solution (hopefully).
Biograd (Biograd)
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Post Number: 65
Registered: 6-2008
Posted on Friday, July 18, 2008 - 6:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the action that John asks Stella to perform rely on Tim's presence--In other words, could she not perform the action if Tim were far away or didn't exist at all?

If the answer to the last question is no, would John's illegal action prior to the transaction still be illegal if Tim were not in the picture?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Post Number: 1367
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Posted on Friday, July 18, 2008 - 11:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the action that John asks Stella to perform rely on Tim's presence--In other words, could she not perform the action if Tim were far away or didn't exist at all? no: she could perform this at any time, but Tim's presence makes it particularly desirable to do it at this time

If the answer to the last question is no, would John's illegal action prior to the transaction still be illegal if Tim were not in the picture? yes, it would
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 1286
Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Friday, July 18, 2008 - 12:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was John's action designed to get Stella out of prostitution? or just escape from Tim?

Would the action she had to perform involve travel?

Is there anything in Tim's appearance or demeanour that would make it obvious that he intended to harm Stella?

Is he sane? is he shouting? Well dressed? Scruffy?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Post Number: 1368
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Posted on Friday, July 18, 2008 - 1:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was John's action designed to get Stella out of prostitution? no or just escape from Tim? this

Would the action she had to perform involve travel? yes!

Is there anything in Tim's appearance or demeanour that would make it obvious that he intended to harm Stella? no

Is he sane? some would say not, though he is probably sane according to legal definitionsis he shouting? Well dressed? Scruffy? all irrel
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 1287
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Posted on Friday, July 18, 2008 - 1:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he give her money to leave the city? the country? or the immediate area? Bus Fare ? Train Fare? Plane Fare?

Are taxis relevant?

Would it help to establish how much money John gave her?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Post Number: 1369
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Posted on Friday, July 18, 2008 - 2:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he give her money to leave the city? the country? or the immediate area? this Bus Fare ? Train Fare? Plane Fare? no to these

Are taxis relevant? no

Would it help to establish how much money John gave her? not really: let's say about 50 pounds
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 1296
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Posted on Wednesday, July 23, 2008 - 12:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did John pretend that he was giving money to stella for some other reason? Did he pretend to buy something from her? Did he say anything relevant when he gave her the money? Did Stella understand John's intentions when he gave her the money?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Post Number: 1370
Registered: 3-2006
Posted on Friday, July 25, 2008 - 11:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did John pretend that he was giving money to stella for some other reason? no, he didn't pretend Did he pretend to buy something from her? no Did he say anything relevant when he gave her the money? yes: he told her to do something Did Stella understand John's intentions when he gave her the money? yes, completely
Sunshine (Sunshine)
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Post Number: 756
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Posted on Saturday, July 26, 2008 - 9:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the illegal action just kerb crawling? to attract Stella's attention?
If John didn't see Tim, did he hear him? voice? other noise? gunshot?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Post Number: 1371
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Posted on Saturday, July 26, 2008 - 10:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the illegal action just kerb crawling? Yes! In some countries, kerb crawling is an offence in itself, even if no actual soliciting is involved.to attract Stella's attention?
If John didn't see Tim, did he hear him? voice? other noise? gunshot? none of these

Almost there, so here's a last recap:

John risks prosecution for kerb-crawling when he approaches Stella (a prostitute on a street corner) and gives her some cash. In return for the cash, he asks her to do something. Tim is the main reason. All that remains to be discovered is:

What does he ask her to do, and who is this Tim character?
Sunshine (Sunshine)
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Post Number: 757
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Posted on Sunday, July 27, 2008 - 10:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he ask her to walk away? to book into a hotel for the night? to go to a police station? to use a phone?
If he doesn't see or hear Tim does he know of his presence by what he sees? Hears? Dead people? Injured people? Damage to property? People looking at something? Shouting about something?
Is Tim in a pub?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Post Number: 1373
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Posted on Sunday, July 27, 2008 - 1:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he ask her to walk away? yes to book into a hotel for the night? this is the right idea, but it's even simpler than this to go to a police station? to use a phone? no to rest
If he doesn't see or hear Tim does he know of his presence by what he sees? yes-ish Hears? yes-ish Dead people? these are certainly relevant, though John doesn't see any Injured people? Damage to property? People looking at something? Shouting about something? no to rest
Is Tim in a pub? nope
Sunshine (Sunshine)
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Post Number: 758
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Posted on Sunday, July 27, 2008 - 5:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just to go home? - he's given her what she would have earned by staying..
Recently dead people? or is a cemetery relevant?
Is Tim on a mission to kill prostitutes? women in red light areas?
Has he killed before? in this area?
Has he threatened to do so again?
Is Tim drunk? Does his exact location matter?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Post Number: 1374
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Posted on Sunday, July 27, 2008 - 5:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just to go home? - he's given her what she would have earned by staying.. exactly
Recently dead people? or is a cemetery relevant?
Is Tim on a mission to kill prostitutes? women in red light areas?
Has he killed before? in this area? yes to all: see below
Has he threatened to do so again?
Is Tim drunk? Does his exact location matter?


***** SPOILER *****

In the week I set this puzzle, there was a lot of rather grisly news, with three serial killers jailed in a single week. Amongst all the news reports, I read this surprising story of human kindness.

A serial killer was on the loose in a small UK town, and was preying on prostitutes. Many of the working girls were too afraid to go out, but some were financially desperate and drug-addicted, so they worked the streets anyway. One girl told the tale of when a car pulled up, and a guy offered her money just to go home, as he was afraid for her safety. It seemed like a kind and brave thing to do, especially as kerb-crawling is illegal in some towns and he was risking prosecution.

I thought it would make a neat situational puzzle, because we tend to jump to the conclusion (as the police probably would if they saw it) that someone in that situation would be likely to have a criminal motive.

Congrats to Sunshine for finishing it off, at last, and thanks to everyone for playing.
Sunshine (Sunshine)
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Post Number: 759
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Posted on Monday, July 28, 2008 - 9:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It was a very neat puzzle - but you should know better than to put quickie in the title!

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