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Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 10:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

they did it to fish, too
Beroean (Beroean)
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 1:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Lynne!
Fish = name of a person?
Fish = things that live in water?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 1:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Beroean

Hi Lynne! Hi there!
Fish = name of a person?
Fish = things that live in water? this
Beroean (Beroean)
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 4:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Time period relevant?
Individual people relevant?
Type of fish relevant?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 4:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Beroean

Time period relevant? yes
Individual people relevant? yes
Type of fish relevant? yes
Beroean (Beroean)
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Post Number: 1523
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 4:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Time: this year?
People: family? friends? strangers?
Type of fish: freshwater? sea fish? fish with fins and gills?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 4:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Beroean

Time: this year? no
People: family? friends? strangers? strangers
Type of fish: freshwater? yes sea fish? no fish with fins and gills? yes
Beroean (Beroean)
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Post Number: 1525
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 4:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

More than 10 years ago?
More than a century ago?
Nationalities relevant?
Location relevant?
One species of fish? Salmon? Trout?
Did they do it when the fish were dead? alive?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 4:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Beroean

More than 10 years ago? yes
More than a century ago? yes
Nationalities relevant? yes
Location relevant? I guess so, but I don't know the location, so don't follow that line
One species of fish? as far as I can tell Salmon? Trout? neither
Did they do it when the fish were dead? no alive? yes
Beroean (Beroean)
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Post Number: 1527
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 5:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

More than 500 years ago
More than 1,500 years ago?
Asian? African? European?

pike? perch? roach? rudd? sturgeon? bream? barbel? tench? carp?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 5:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Beroean

More than 500 years ago no
More than 1,500 years ago?
Asian? African? European? the fish were European

pike? perch? roach? rudd? sturgeon? bream? barbel? tench? carp? none
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 5:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK, the term freshwater is incorrect, or at the least, confusing. I'm no fish expert! These fish do appear to have freshwater varieties among them, but I'm now realising that probably not the ones in the puzzle
Beroean (Beroean)
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Post Number: 1529
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 5:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

are they eels?
Bass?
are they found in lakes? rivers? streams? sea?

Are they (the people) european? other?

Is the time window that this occurred in something like a generation / 10 years / 100 years / more than 100 years?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 5:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Nope, they ARE freshwater, technically Asian, but these were born in Europe.
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 5:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Beroean

are they eels?no
Bass? no
are they found in lakes? rivers? streams? sea? these ones weren't

Are they (the people} european? other? European

Is the time window that this occurred in something like a generation / 10 years / 100 years / more than 100 years? less than 10 years
Beroean (Beroean)
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 5:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

In ponds?
Did they find them on land? in drains? in holes? in caves? underground?
Had they been moved to the location where they were found?
Do the fish have a distinctive colour? silver? green? gold?

Are we looking at a specific country here?
Beroean (Beroean)
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Post Number: 1531
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 5:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

catfish?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 5:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Beroean

In ponds? no
Did they find them on land? in drains? in holes? in caves? underground? no to all
Had they been moved to the location where they were found? yes
Do the fish have a distinctive colour? silver? green? gold? this one

Are we looking at a specific country here? yope

catfish? no
Beroean (Beroean)
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Post Number: 1533
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 5:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So are we talking about goldfish?
Are the people travellers?

Were the fish moved from water to somewhere else?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Post Number: 3712
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 6:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So are we talking about goldfish? YES
Are the people travellers? no

Were the fish moved from water to somewhere else? no

To simplify things, they were in a little aquarium, hence the bit about being moved to the location they were found in (presumably they were bought in, but all that is irrelevant compared to the rest of the puzzle).
Beroean (Beroean)
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 6:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks for the clarification - I am obviously out of practice!
By the way goldfish are carp - but not a lot of people know that :-)

So are we just talking about one aquarium full of goldfish rather than a whole load of fish in one era?

Are we talking about a country that no longer exists? eg Prussia?
Or a country where the boundaries have changed significantly?

Are the people monks?
Beroean (Beroean)
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Username: Beroean

Post Number: 1537
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 6:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would it helpful to find out who (or what) else they did it to?
Beroean (Beroean)
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Post Number: 1538
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 6:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did they eat them? (eat them alive?)
breed them?
do something very unusual to them?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 6:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks for the clarification - I am obviously out of practice! so am I
By the way goldfish are carp - but not a lot of people know that :-) okie dokie

So are we just talking about one aquarium full of goldfish rather than a whole load of fish in one era? yes

Are we talking about a country that no longer exists? no eg Prussia? no
Or a country where the boundaries have changed significantly? they have, but they were and still are in Europe. And a FA here

Are the people monks? no - so no jokes about monkfish!

Would it helpful to find out who (or what) else they did it to? yes, very much so

did they eat them? (eat them alive?) no
breed them? no
do something very unusual to them? yes
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 6:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By the way goldfish are carp - but not a lot of people know that :-) If I'd realised that, we could have saved a few hours - I always thought they were big fish in outdoor ponds ;-)
Woubit (Woubit)
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 6:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

How many of them (the people who did whatever they did to goldfish) were there? (fewer than 10, fewer than 100, etc.)

Are we speaking of several instances of people doing X to goldfish during a ten-year period? Or of one instance of one group of people doing X to goldfish during a ten-year period?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 6:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Woubit - hello!

How many of them (the people who did whatever they did to goldfish) were there? (fewer than 10, fewer than 100, etc.) I would guess fewer than 10, my source doesn't say, exactly

Are we speaking of several instances of people doing X to goldfish during a ten-year period? It may not have taken as long as ten years, but there would have been a few instances of this Or of one instance of one group of people doing X to goldfish during a ten-year period? see previous - I'm sure it was repeated at least a few times
Woubit (Woubit)
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 6:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Whatever was done, was it also done to:

Other fish?
Other non-human animals?
Human beings?
Deities?
Beroean (Beroean)
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Username: Beroean

Post Number: 1539
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 6:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they train them to do something?
(Did they jump through hoops?)
Did it involve taking them out of the water?
Did it harm the fish / put the fish at risk?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Post Number: 3718
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 6:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Woubit

Whatever was done, was it also done to:

Other fish? no
Other non-human animals? YES
Human beings?
Deities?

Beroean

Did they train them to do something? yes
(Did they jump through hoops?) no
Did it involve taking them out of the water? noish
Did it harm the fish / put the fish at risk? no
Beroean (Beroean)
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Post Number: 1542
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 7:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

train them to "fetch"
Beroean (Beroean)
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Post Number: 1543
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 7:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

train them to:
dance?
leap somehow?
Beroean (Beroean)
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 7:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Train them to:
swim in patterns?
sing?
talk?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 7:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Beroean

train them to "fetch" no

dance? no
leap somehow? no with a bit of an ish
Beroean (Beroean)
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Post Number: 1546
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 7:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Lynne see 7.30 post

train them to:
find things?
recognise things?
race?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 7:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Train them to:
swim in patterns? no
sing? no
talk? no
find things? no
recognise things? don't know whether to say yes or no here
race? no
Beroean (Beroean)
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Post Number: 1548
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 7:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

wear glasses?
wear clothes?
Beroean (Beroean)
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Post Number: 1549
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 7:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

respond to voices
respond to sounds?
Beroean (Beroean)
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 7:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

listen to music?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 8:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Beroean

wear glasses? yes
wear clothes?
respond to voices
respond to sounds? this one
listen to music?
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 8:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Anything to do with the reputed attention span of goldfish?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 8:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Woodworm

Anything to do with the reputed attention span of goldfish? no
Beroean (Beroean)
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 8:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So they taught the fish to wear glasses and respond to sounds!?

Did they train them to do other things?
Was it all part of an act?
Any other reason?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 8:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So they taught the fish to wear glasses and respond to sounds!? just kidding about the glasses - but you knew that :-)

Did they train them to do other things? yes
Was it all part of an act? no
Any other reason? yes
Woubit (Woubit)
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 9:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

just kidding about the glasses - but you knew that

There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamed of in your philosophy.
Beroean (Beroean)
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 9:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So they wear contact lens'!

type of sounds relevant?
was there a military objective in mind?
Number of fish relevant?
Were they in a lab of some sort?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 9:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

There are more things in Heaven and Earth, LOL

So they wear contact lens'! Nah, just fisheye lenses

type of sounds relevant? yes
was there a military objective in mind? no
Number of fish relevant? no
Were they in a lab of some sort? I don't think so, so irrelevant
Beroean (Beroean)
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Post Number: 1558
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 9:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did they ring a bell for feeding time (as in the Pavlovian experiment with dogs)?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 9:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did they ring a bell for feeding time (as in the Pavlovian experiment with dogs)? Ding ding! YES

*************** SPOILER ***************

Read all about it here: http://tinyurl.com/3o54lc


Well done!
Lynne (Lynne)
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Post Number: 3734
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 9:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The page is from a book dated 1895, although the articles were probably from 1894, and it would appear to be around the time that Pavlov was doing his own research, although I've not found an exact date for that.
Beroean (Beroean)
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Post Number: 1560
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 9:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Fascinating...

When my girls were growing up we did the same thing with them - rang a bell for meal times - just like in the school playgrounds. I suppose it is the "unthinking man's gong".

The whole idea was to avoid straining the vocal chords and reducing the risks of laryngitis!

It never worked in the same way with my kids as it did with the dogs! And nor did it speed their approach to the dinner table.
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2008 - 9:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Our dog has the salivating down to a fine art.

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