[Haenlomal] A Business Proposition III Log Out | Topics | Search
Moderators | Register | Edit Profile

Lateral Puzzles » Solved Lateral Thinking Puzzles » Solved Puzzles - July 2009 » [Haenlomal] A Business Proposition III « Previous Next »

Author Message
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member
Username: Haenlomal

Post Number: 955
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2009 - 12:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Title: A Business Proposition III

Difficulty: Easy to Medium

Type: Fiction - FMOI

Story:
A man was reading a long document very carefully. About three-quarters of the way through, he read a sentence that gave him a short moment of confusion. After the moment had passed, the man became very angry and upset.

To Solve:
Why did the man get upset?

Specialized Knowledge Needed:
Yes, it is needed -- Sorry, but I can't get more specific than this without $poiling the puzzle. Having said that, if you are posting here, then I'm 99.9% sure you already have the requisite specialized knowledge.

Good luck!
Logician (Logician)
New member
Username: Logician

Post Number: 425
Registered: 6-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2009 - 3:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Had he written the document? Had someone changed the document since he had last read it? Or was this the first time he had read it?

Would it be correct to say that the confusion was simply because he came across a sentence that seemed out-of-place? And then the anger/upset was a result of him realising the content/ramifications/implications of the sentence?

Is it a policy paper? And he was confused/upset about a proposed policy mentioned in the paper?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member
Username: Haenlomal

Post Number: 956
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2009 - 11:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Logician

Had he written the document? No Had someone changed the document since he had last read it? No Or was this the first time he had read it? No -- good question.

Would it be correct to say that the confusion was simply because he came across a sentence that seemed out-of-place? Yes, for svv of "out-of-place". And then the anger/upset was a result of him realising the content/ramifications/implications of the sentence? Yes

Is it a policy paper? No And he was confused/upset about a proposed policy mentioned in the paper? So no to this as well.
Rcs (Rcs)
New member
Username: Rcs

Post Number: 337
Registered: 9-2008
Posted on Saturday, January 24, 2009 - 9:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the document a famous one (e.g. the Constitution or the Declaration of Independence)?

Was the document written within the last month? year? five years? ten years? 100 years? longer ago?

Relevant what language the document was written in? If so, was it English? Some other language? [insert LTPF list of languages other than English here]

Relevant who wrote the document?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member
Username: Haenlomal

Post Number: 957
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 2:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Rcs

Is the document a famous one (e.g. the Constitution or the Declaration of Independence)? No

Was the document written within the last month? year? five years? ten years? 100 years? longer ago? The document was started a year ago, and finished last week (relative to the time that the man started reading it).

Relevant what language the document was written in? Yes If so, was it English? Yes Some other language? [insert LTPF list of languages other than English here]

Relevant who wrote the document? Yes
Gourami (Gourami)
Moderator
Username: Gourami

Post Number: 49
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 6:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he reading it for the first time since its completion? Was it a contract? An academic paper? Something related to his job?

Did he discover a mistake of some sort? Or an intentional deception? Has he been wronged? If so, by the writer of the document? Might he lose money? Might he be in danger?
Martinfg (Martinfg)
New member
Username: Martinfg

Post Number: 644
Registered: 8-2005
Posted on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 9:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he write the document?
Martinfg (Martinfg)
New member
Username: Martinfg

Post Number: 645
Registered: 8-2005
Posted on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 10:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry missed the bit where he didnt write the document.
Martinfg (Martinfg)
New member
Username: Martinfg

Post Number: 646
Registered: 8-2005
Posted on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 10:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he know who had written the document?
Usmcfink (Usmcfink)
New member
Username: Usmcfink

Post Number: 389
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 2:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

any double entendres at play?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member
Username: Haenlomal

Post Number: 959
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 6:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Gourami

Was he reading it for the first time since its completion? No -- good question. Was it a contract? No An academic paper? No Something related to his job? Yes

Did he discover a mistake of some sort? Yes Or an intentional deception? No Has he been wronged? Yes, for svv of "wronged". If so, by the writer of the document? Yes, subject to my answer to the previous question. Might he lose money? No Might he be in danger? No

Martinfg

Did he write the document? See your next comment. =)
Sorry missed the bit where he didnt write the document. It's ok.
Did he know who had written the document? Yes

Usmcfink

any double entendres at play? No. Heh -- thought that you might slip this question (or something similar) in after my baseball puzzle. =)
Gourami (Gourami)
Moderator
Username: Gourami

Post Number: 54
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 11:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is he simply noticing something that he didn't on a previous reading? Or have circumstances changed so that he now recognizes the mistake? Is it something that was true before, but is false now?

The nature of the mistake--was it essentially a typo, in which the author did not mean what he ended up saying? Or did the author mean what he said, which was false?

Is his exact job relevant? General field? Does the writer work with him? Above him in the same job? Below him?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member
Username: Haenlomal

Post Number: 960
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 27, 2009 - 1:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Gourami

Is he simply noticing something that he didn't on a previous reading? Yes Or have circumstances changed so that he now recognizes the mistake? No Is it something that was true before, but is false now? No

The nature of the mistake--was it essentially a typo, in which the author did not mean what he ended up saying? Or did the author mean what he said, which was false? Good questions. They are tough to answer without misleading, so let me put it this way: There is a typo involved, yet the author did mean what he said -- er, wrote. But the veracity of what he said is not determinable for reasons yet to be discovered.

Is his exact job relevant? Yes General field? This too Does the writer work with him? Yes Above him in the same job? No Below him? No
Biograd (Biograd)
New member
Username: Biograd

Post Number: 335
Registered: 6-2008
Posted on Wednesday, January 28, 2009 - 10:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the document on paper? Saved on a computer? On a web page? relevant?

Is the man faced with the task of editing the document? altering it in some way? carrying out instructions or commands in the document?

Is it a legal document (i.e. one that dictates the legal rights or obligations of some person(s))?
Liquizt (Liquizt)
New member
Username: Liquizt

Post Number: 609
Registered: 5-2008
Posted on Thursday, January 29, 2009 - 10:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the document a lateral puzzle?

I'd ask more but my questions at the moment all stem from that one :P
Tricky_martin (Tricky_martin)
New member
Username: Tricky_martin

Post Number: 3
Registered: 2-2009
Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 9:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the document a letter? A book (or a draft for a book)? If so, is it the mans biography?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member
Username: Haenlomal

Post Number: 963
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 7:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Biograd

Is the document on paper? This one Saved on a computer? Well, it's definitely saved on a computer somewhere, but the man was reading this on paper. On a web page? relevant? Yes

Is the man faced with the task of editing the document? altering it in some way? carrying out instructions or commands in the document? No to all.

Is it a legal document (i.e. one that dictates the legal rights or obligations of some person(s))? No, but good thinking.

Liquizt

Was the document a lateral puzzle? No, but good thinking. :P

I'd ask more but my questions at the moment all stem from that one :P

Tricky_martin

Is the document a letter? A book (or a draft for a book)? If so, is it the mans biography? No to all, but more good thinking.
Smartyllama (Smartyllama)
New member
Username: Smartyllama

Post Number: 21
Registered: 1-2009
Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 9:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You mentioned the document was in English, but did the man speak English as a first language? Or did he speak some other language as a first language? Is this even relevant?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member
Username: Haenlomal

Post Number: 965
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 9:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Smartyllama

You mentioned the document was in English, but did the man speak English as a first language? Or did he speak some other language as a first language? Is this even relevant? The man's first language is irrelevant, but for the purposes of this puzzle, he is totally fluent in English.
Arek_fu (Arek_fu)
New member
Username: Arek_fu

Post Number: 623
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 10:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the document a scientific article?

Was the document written by one of his collaborators?

Is he working in one of the following fields?
Artistic / musical / writer?
Banking / financial / real estate?
Clerical / Administrative?
Computer related / Hardware ?
Construction / Craftsman ?
Criminal / Questionable Repute?
Education / Academic Research ?
Entertainment / Media?
Environmental / Outdoors / Nature?
Executive / Management ?
Hospitality / Travel ?
Legal Services ?
Manufacturing / Distributions ?
Medical / Health Services ?
Politics / Government / Military ?
Sales / Marketing ?
Technical / Science / Engineering ?
Teaching / Child care?
Transportation ?
Food Service ?
Other ?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member
Username: Haenlomal

Post Number: 967
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Friday, February 06, 2009 - 10:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Arek_fu

Is the document a scientific article? No

Was the document written by one of his collaborators? Yes, for svv of "collaborators".

Is he working in one of the following fields?
Artistic / musical / writer? This is the closest.
Banking / financial / real estate?
Clerical / Administrative?
Computer related / Hardware ?
Construction / Craftsman ?
Criminal / Questionable Repute?
Education / Academic Research ?
Entertainment / Media? This is pretty close too.
Environmental / Outdoors / Nature?
Executive / Management ?
Hospitality / Travel ?
Legal Services ?
Manufacturing / Distributions ?
Medical / Health Services ?
Politics / Government / Military ?
Sales / Marketing ?
Technical / Science / Engineering ?
Teaching / Child care?
Transportation ?
Food Service ?
Other ?
Howardwoman (Howardwoman)
New member
Username: Howardwoman

Post Number: 214
Registered: 1-2008
Posted on Monday, February 09, 2009 - 11:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it sheet music or a lead sheet, if he was musically involved? Maybe a revision to a script or book, if he was involved with writing?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member
Username: Haenlomal

Post Number: 968
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 11:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Howardwoman

Was it sheet music or a lead sheet, if he was musically involved? No Maybe a revision to a script or book, if he was involved with writing? Yes and no...you see, yes, a script was involved...but there was no revision since he first read it (recall that he had read the document/script before this particular reading).
Biograd (Biograd)
New member
Username: Biograd

Post Number: 351
Registered: 6-2008
Posted on Saturday, February 14, 2009 - 2:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he reading the script out loud? silently to himself?

Was everything exactly the same as the time(s) he had read it before? Did he intend for it to be identical?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member
Username: Haenlomal

Post Number: 970
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Tuesday, March 03, 2009 - 1:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Biograd

Was he reading the script out loud? silently to himself? Irrelevant -- let's say for the purposes of the story he was reading silently to himself.

Was everything exactly the same as the time(s) he had read it before? If you meant if the script remained unchanged? Then yes -- it was the exact same script he had read on a previous occasion. Did he intend for it to be identical? Well, he certainly didn't think the script would change between his readings.
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member
Username: Haenlomal

Post Number: 973
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Wednesday, March 25, 2009 - 12:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Time for a long overdue recap/refocus/hints -- mostly I will be summarizing old information, but I've embedded several tidbits of new info in a bid to move this puzzle along:


A actor was reading the hardcopy of a script that was given to him, because the author of the script, a writer with whom the actor had previous experience, wanted the actor to play a specific part in it.

Initially, the actor skimmed through the script and found everything to be initially acceptable. However, he was very busy with other acting obligations at the time. Therefore, one week later, after things have settled down a bit, the actor took the script and read it again, this time in a much more thorough fashion.

The actor was about three-quarters of the way through the script when he read a sentence that, thanks to a typo, caused him some initial confusion (the actor missed the typo initially because he skimmed through the script the first time around). However, he soon realized the implications of the typo, and became very angry at the writer -- an anger which was entirely justified, for reasons yet to be discovered.

Things to uncover:
1) Why was the actor's anger at the writer justified?
2) What exactly is the typo that caused this reaction in the first place?
3) The script is written in English, and the actor is fluent in English. These facts are somewhat relevant. That said, some other language (though not all other languages) would work just as well for the purposes of this puzzle, as long as the actor is also fluent in the language in question.
4) It is also relevant that the man is reading a hardcopy of the script. Finding out why this is useful information is entirely up to you.
5) Though the actor and the writer are the two principals involved in this puzzle, there are others who are somewhat relevant. Discovering more about them, while strictly speaking not necessary for the solving of this puzzle, will greatly help in providing focus and other avenues of inquiry.

Good luck!
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member
Username: Jenburdoo

Post Number: 873
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Saturday, April 04, 2009 - 7:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the hardcopy written on? Has something been crossed out or otherwise altered from when the document was printed?

Did the actor recognize the typo to be a typo, or did he take it to be written as the author intended?

Is the mistake in a single word? Does it affect the meaning of a word? Sentence? Paragraph? Page? Scene? Act? The entire script?

Is the script for film, radio or theater? Relevant? Is the typo in a line of dialogue? Spoken by the actor reading it? Is the typo in the stage directions?

Would this typo anger only the actor, or also other actors? His agent? The investors? The public?

Would the writer be apologetic when he learned of the typo and the actor's anger?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member
Username: Haenlomal

Post Number: 982
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Sunday, April 12, 2009 - 5:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the hardcopy written on? No Has something been crossed out or otherwise altered from when the document was printed? No

Did the actor recognize the typo to be a typo Yes to this part, or did he take it to be written as the author intended? Yope to this part

Is the mistake in a single word? Yes Does it affect the meaning of a word? Yes Sentence? No, with the tiniest bit of 'ish to this. Paragraph? Page? Scene? Act? The entire script? No to the rest

Is the script for film, radio or theater? Yes -- it is a script for a film production. Relevant? No...now that I think about it, this puzzle would work just as well if it had been a script for radio or theater. Is the typo in a line of dialogue? Yes Spoken by the actor reading it? No Is the typo in the stage directions? No

Would this typo anger only the actor, or also other actors? Hmmm...good question. If this was a real life scenario, I suppose it would really depend on the actor's relationship with other actors. To keep things simple, let's say only the actor would get angry His agent? Same answer as previous one The investors? No The public? No

Would the writer be apologetic when he learned of the typo and the actor's anger? Irrelevant, but let's say yes for story's sake.
Sunshine (Sunshine)
New member
Username: Sunshine

Post Number: 800
Registered: 1-2001
Posted on Sunday, April 12, 2009 - 9:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the word omitted? inserted? misspelled? a synonym used? an antonym? transposed with another word? a completely unrelated word used?
Was the word descriptive of the actor? addressed to him?
Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
New member
Username: Davesnothere

Post Number: 25
Registered: 3-2009
Posted on Monday, April 13, 2009 - 7:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is his anger caused not by the typo, but by the realization of what the correct word is? Or, had the typo not been present, would the actor have had a problem with the script?

Does the typo involve an ethnic slur or epithet? Does the actor find the typo to be personally insulting?

Does it relate to a personal circumstance of the actor? If so, is it painful?

Does the typo involve the substitution of one name for another? One word for another?

Is the plot of the script relevant?

In making the typo, does the writer divulge information? ...that affects the actor?

Does the anger relate to the actor's performance in his role? Or to his life off stage? There are at least three realms here -- (1) the story encapsulated in the script that is being performed, (2) the activities related to the performance of the script, and (3) the outside personal lives of the writer and performers. Within which realm does this story reside? (1, 2 or 3)?

Does the anger relate to a personal boundry of the actor, e.g., his refusal to play certain roles?
Gourami (Gourami)
Moderator
Username: Gourami

Post Number: 248
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Sunday, May 10, 2009 - 5:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the typo make the line appear to be written in a racially insensitive dialect?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member
Username: Haenlomal

Post Number: 983
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Sunday, May 17, 2009 - 11:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sunshine

Was the word omitted? inserted? misspelled? This one. a synonym used? an antonym? transposed with another word? a completely unrelated word used?
Was the word descriptive of the actor? Yes, but be careful of potential to mislead! addressed to him? No

Davesnothere

Is his anger caused not by the typo, but by the realization of what the correct word is? Yes -- good question! But be careful of potential mislead. Or, had the typo not been present, would the actor have had a problem with the script? If the typo was not made, then the actor would have no problems with the script.

Does the typo involve an ethnic slur or epithet? No Does the actor find the typo to be personally insulting? Yes, but maybe not in the way that you may be thinking...(in other words, once again, but careful of potential mislead.)

Does it relate to a personal circumstance of the actor? Well, yes, for svv of "personal circumstances." If so, is it painful? No

Does the typo involve the substitution of one name for another? Yope One word for another? No

Is the plot of the script relevant? One aspect of it is relevant, but other than that, no.

In making the typo, does the writer divulge information? Yes ...that affects the actor? No

Does the anger relate to the actor's performance in his role? No Or to his life off stage? No'ish There are at least three realms here -- (1) the story encapsulated in the script that is being performed, (2) the activities related to the performance of the script, and (3) the outside personal lives of the writer and performers. Within which realm does this story reside? (1, 2 or 3)? 1 and 3...good question!

Does the anger relate to a personal boundary of the actor, e.g., his refusal to play certain roles? No

Gourami

Did the typo make the line appear to be written in a racially insensitive dialect? No
Biograd (Biograd)
New member
Username: Biograd

Post Number: 392
Registered: 6-2008
Posted on Thursday, May 21, 2009 - 11:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the typo appear to be a Freudian slip of some sort on the part of the author? and this made the actor think the writer had objectionable thoughts?

Or was it that the typo revealed a certain lack of knowledge on the part of the writer, knowledge that he should have known?
Ontologicalcommitment (Ontologicalcommitment)
New member
Username: Ontologicalcommitment

Post Number: 21
Registered: 3-2009
Posted on Friday, May 22, 2009 - 2:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it the close proximity of two or more buttons on the keyboard that led to the typo?
Rcs (Rcs)
New member
Username: Rcs

Post Number: 420
Registered: 9-2008
Posted on Sunday, May 24, 2009 - 9:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the mispelling of the word cause it to appear to be another word (i.e., what appeared on the paper was also a valid English word)? If so, is the meaning of this other word relevant?

Did the typo consist of an added letter or letters? Omitted letter or letters? One letter exchanged for another one?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member
Username: Haenlomal

Post Number: 984
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 5:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Biograd

Did the typo appear to be a Freudian slip of some sort on the part of the author? No and this made the actor think the writer had objectionable thoughts? Well, the actor certainly found writer's thoughts objectionable, but maybe not in the way you were implying.

Or was it that the typo revealed a certain lack of knowledge on the part of the writer, knowledge that he should have known? No, nothing like this.

Ontologicalcommitment

Was it the close proximity of two or more buttons on the keyboard that led to the typo? YES -- good question!

Rcs

Did the mispelling of the word cause it to appear to be another word (i.e., what appeared on the paper was also a valid English word)? YES -- good question! If so, is the meaning of this other word relevant? Yes

Did the typo consist of an added letter or letters? Omitted letter or letters? One letter exchanged for another one? The last one -- see Ontologicalcommitment's excellent question for more details.
Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
New member
Username: Davesnothere

Post Number: 35
Registered: 3-2009
Posted on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 7:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the anger relate to a real-life dispute? Is it between the writer and actor? Is the dispute previous, on-going, or new dispute?

If a dispute, does it involve money, career, love, injury, family, artistic direction? Is the nature of the dispute central to this story? Does the dispute relate to another production, the present production, or unrelated to either?

Based on your answer that this involves realms 1 & 3 (script versus real-life), does the anger relate primarily to the real-life dimension? Would it be accurate to say that the discovery of the typo opens an old wound? Signifies that an issue remains unresolved?

As to the typo -- is it a noun, verb, or modifier? If noun, is it a proper noun? We have two words -- the intended word and the typo -- are both the same kind of word (noun vs verb)?

You had mentioned that there is one or more relevant third parties -- just one other person? A small distinct number (less than 5) of people? A group of people?

Is the third party(s) a relative, another actor, involved in the production, a lover, a business associate?

Is there a distinct real-life narrative to understand? Does it relate at all to the production (aside from the fact that writer and actor are involved in the production)?

Does the anger relate to political correctness? For example, would it have to do with gender, race, religion, age, sexual preference, (insert list of constituencies that sometimes cultivate an identity of victimhood)?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member
Username: Haenlomal

Post Number: 985
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 2:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Davesnothere

Does the anger relate to a real-life dispute? Not really. Is it between the writer and actor? So N/A to this question Is the dispute previous, on-going, or new dispute? N/A to this one as well.

If a dispute, does it involve money, career, love, injury, family, artistic direction? Is the nature of the dispute central to this story? Does the dispute relate to another production, the present production, or unrelated to either? There's no dispute involved.

Based on your answer that this involves realms 1 & 3 (script versus real-life), does the anger relate primarily to the real-life dimension? Yes Would it be accurate to say that the discovery of the typo opens an old wound? No Signifies that an issue remains unresolved? Yes, but be careful of potential mislead.

As to the typo -- is it a noun, verb, or modifier? Noun If noun, is it a proper noun? Proper noun. We have two words -- the intended word and the typo -- are both the same kind of word (noun vs verb)? Yes, both are proper nouns -- good question.

You had mentioned that there is one or more relevant third parties -- just one other person? A small distinct number (less than 5) of people? A group of people? I'd say for the purposes of this story, around 10-20 people, though much higher numbers are a definite possibility -- exact number is not relevant.

Is the third party(s) a relative, another actor, involved in the production, a lover, a business associate? They are other actors, producers, and writers that know the actor in question.

Is there a distinct real-life narrative to understand? Does it relate at all to the production (aside from the fact that writer and actor are involved in the production)?

Does the anger relate to political correctness? No, nothing like this. For example, would it have to do with gender, race, religion, age, sexual preference, (insert list of constituencies that sometimes cultivate an identity of victimhood)?
Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
New member
Username: Davesnothere

Post Number: 44
Registered: 3-2009
Posted on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 6:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there a distinct real-life narrative to understand? Does it relate at all to the current production?

If not a dispute, then any kind of conflict?

The issue that makes him mad -- is this the typical kind of issue that actors are concerned about?

Does the issue involve money, career, love, injury, family, artistic direction?

Are the proper nouns names of people? First names?

In making the typo, the writer divulges information. Is this at the crux of the issue?

Does the actor's anger come from a sense of betrayal? Embarrassment? Jealosy? Envy? Regret?

Does the issue relate to a previous circumstance?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member
Username: Haenlomal

Post Number: 986
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 4:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Davesnothere

Is there a distinct real-life narrative to understand? Yes Does it relate at all to the current production? Yes

If not a dispute, then any kind of conflict? This is a more accurate descriptor than 'dispute', but still not that accurate at all.

The issue that makes him mad -- is this the typical kind of issue that actors are concerned about? Hmmm...tough to answer, since I'm not an actor myself, and have really no clue how to answer it. Judging by the news that comes out of Hollywood, I'd say that some actors would be totally apathetic towards it, while others would be mightily concerned with it.

Does the issue involve money, career, love, injury, family, artistic direction? None of this, except for possibly having a very tangential impact on career.

Are the proper nouns names of people? Yes First names? Precisely so -- well done.

In making the typo, the writer divulges information. Is this at the crux of the issue? Yes

Does the actor's anger come from a sense of betrayal? Possibly this one... Embarrassment? ...but this is perhaps the predominant feeling. Jealousy? Envy? Regret? None of the others.

Does the issue relate to a previous circumstance? Yes, for svv of "previous circumstance".
Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
New member
Username: Davesnothere

Post Number: 46
Registered: 3-2009
Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 1:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Rather than calling it a dispute or conflict, it sounds like it would be best to call it an "issue" or "bone of contention", would that be most accurate?

Going forward, I will refer to it as the "issue".

Clarifying the anger further, would it be accurate to say that the issue offends the actor's vanity? Sense of pride? Ego?

Does the entire story relate only to matters concerning this production and productions in general? In other words, can I assume that there is no separate narrative, such that the misspelled name reminds him of a cheating lover?

Does the issue relate to:
Agreements made between the writer and actor?
Who would be selected to play a particular part?

The names -- is one of the names a fictional name, and the other a real-life name? Both fictional? Both real? Is the typo a real-life name? Is one of the names the actor's real name? Is this a fruitful line of questioning?

Is the storyline of the production relevant? Would the typo have offended him in any context, or is its placement in the particular sentence important? In other words, would the very mention of the erroneous name have offended?

svv of previous circumstances -- is the previous circumstance the original reading of the script? In other words, does this story begin and end within the timeframe and context of the puzzle statement, or are there additional circumstances that need to be discovered?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member
Username: Haenlomal

Post Number: 989
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Tuesday, June 02, 2009 - 6:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Davesnothere

Rather than calling it a dispute or conflict, it sounds like it would be best to call it an "issue" or "bone of contention", would that be most accurate? Issue is fine.

Going forward, I will refer to it as the "issue".

Clarifying the anger further, would it be accurate to say that the issue offends the actor's vanity? Sense of pride? Ego? Possibly the actor's vanity (this puzzle would work just as well either way), but the last two for certain.

Does the entire story relate only to matters concerning this production and productions in general? See my answer to your next question. In other words, can I assume that there is no separate narrative, such that the misspelled name reminds him of a cheating lover? Well, you do need to know one key bit of information that is outside of the scope of the production in order to solve this puzzle. I alluded to this in a somewhat oblique manner in my big refocus a few posts up. See my answer to your last question for more details.

Does the issue relate to:
Agreements made between the writer and actor? No
Who would be selected to play a particular part? Yope

The names -- is one of the names a fictional name, and the other a real-life name? Both fictional? Both real? Is the typo a real-life name? Is one of the names the actor's real name? Is this a fruitful line of questioning? This is indeed a fruitful line of questioning. I'll answer your questions in this manner: Let's say Name1 is the name that the writer intended to type, and Name2 was what the writer actually typed out (i.e. the typo). These are the properties of Name1 and Name2.

Name1
- Is a name in real-life
- Does not refer to any fictional characters in the script
- Is the actor's real name

Name2
- Is a name in real-life
- Does not refer to any fictional characters in the script


Is the storyline of the production relevant? One aspect of it is, yes. Would the typo have offended him in any context, or is its placement in the particular sentence important? The typo would have offended the actor in any context. In other words, would the very mention of the erroneous name have offended? Yes. Good question.

svv of previous circumstances -- is the previous circumstance the original reading of the script? No In other words, does this story begin and end within the timeframe and context of the puzzle statement, or are there additional circumstances that need to be discovered? There is one additional factoid that needs to be discovered.
Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
New member
Username: Davesnothere

Post Number: 100
Registered: 3-2009
Posted on Wednesday, June 03, 2009 - 4:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Name2 a rival of Name1? Someone else who might have gotten the part? Perhaps someone who would have been the first choice of the writer?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member
Username: Haenlomal

Post Number: 991
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Wednesday, June 03, 2009 - 5:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Davesnothere

Is Name2 a rival of Name1? Someone else who might have gotten the part? Perhaps someone who would have been the first choice of the writer? No, nothing like this.

Since we have already discovered the fact that the real name of the actor is important, and that his real name differs from the typo'ed name comes from one letter exchanged for another due to their close proximity on the keyboard, it would be rather sadistic of me to expect you to guess the name. Therefore, I'll give out the following details:

Jim is the actor's real name (Name1). Kim is the name typed out by mistake (Name2). The sentence that is at the heart of the puzzle is actually a stage direction and reads as follows:

"Kim opens the door and leaves."

Note that (as Davesnothere has cleverly discovered) the name "Kim" could have really appeared in anywhere in script, and it still would have made Jim very upset.
Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
New member
Username: Davesnothere

Post Number: 112
Registered: 3-2009
Posted on Thursday, June 04, 2009 - 7:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I should have expanded my questions earlier -- is there a present or previous conflict between Jim and Kim?

Is the fact that she appears just the one time relevant?

Is the fact that she would be substituted for him relavent?

Does the gender confusion matter? Is he gay? Effeminite? Had a sex change operation?

You had mentioned that hard copy is important -- is this because the copy has permanence and would not have changed over the period of time that the manuscript had been printed?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member
Username: Haenlomal

Post Number: 993
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Thursday, June 04, 2009 - 5:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I should have expanded my questions earlier -- is there a present or previous conflict between Jim and Kim? No...and possibly there is a FA.

Is the fact that she appears just the one time relevant? Yes

Is the fact that she would be substituted for him relavent? FA

Does the gender confusion matter? Is he gay? Effeminite? Had a sex change operation? Heh...nothing like this. Sorry. But good thinking.

You had mentioned that hard copy is important -- is this because the copy has permanence and would not have changed over the period of time that the manuscript had been printed? Yes, and...
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member
Username: Jenburdoo

Post Number: 1080
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Friday, June 05, 2009 - 12:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yes, and... copies have been distributed to the other actors? To others?

Is there more significance to the name Kim than just the typo? For example, does Jim know someone named Kim? Has he ever played someone named Kim? Has a character named Kim ever appeared in one of his plays?
Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
New member
Username: Davesnothere

Post Number: 125
Registered: 3-2009
Posted on Friday, June 05, 2009 - 2:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jim knows Kim?
Is Kim an actress?
Their relationship relevant?
Was there a negotiation that had involved Kim?
If so, was the negotiation between Jim and the writer?
We have to understand a real-life story -- does this involve Kim?

What are the most important relationships to explore besides Jim and the writer:
Jim - Kim
Kim - writer
Kim - somebody else
Jim - somebody else
Writer - somebody else
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member
Username: Haenlomal

Post Number: 994
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Friday, June 05, 2009 - 10:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jenburdoo

Yes, and... copies have been distributed to the other actors? Irrelevant To others? Irrelevant

Is there more significance to the name Kim than just the typo? Tough to answer without seriously misleading, so let me put it this way: the word "Kim" did appear in the script as a result of a simple typo, but the implications go a bit further than that of a simple typo. For example, does Jim know someone named Kim? No, good question. Has he ever played someone named Kim? Irrelevant Has a character named Kim ever appeared in one of his plays? Irrelevant

Davesnothere

Jim knows Kim? No -- like I indicated to Jenburdoo above, Jim knows of no one named Kim.
Is Kim an actress? No
Their relationship relevant? N/A -- other than the typo, Kim does not exist.
Was there a negotiation that had involved Kim? N/A
If so, was the negotiation between Jim and the writer? N/A
We have to understand a real-life story -- does this involve Kim? No

What are the most important relationships to explore besides Jim and the writer:
Jim - Kim
Kim - writer
Kim - somebody else
Jim - somebody else
Writer - somebody else
The last two
Therelic (Therelic)
New member
Username: Therelic

Post Number: 1
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Sunday, June 07, 2009 - 5:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What kind of question is this you are still providing info relevant to answer that should be included in the question?
Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
New member
Username: Davesnothere

Post Number: 144
Registered: 3-2009
Posted on Sunday, June 07, 2009 - 8:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the "somebody else" that has a relevant relationship between Jim and the writer, the same person or people?

One person? Multiple people?

Is it the typo itself that offends?

The typo is evidence that the script was originally type-written using a keyboard, as the typo would not have occurred if writing by hand. Is this important?

Was the hardcopy script that Jim was reading hand-written? Is there a ghostwriter involved? Is plagiarism a factor? Does Jim feel that the writer is misrepresenting the authorship of the script?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member
Username: Haenlomal

Post Number: 996
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Monday, June 08, 2009 - 6:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Therelic

What kind of question is this you are still providing info relevant to answer that should be included in the question? I'm not quite sure I understand the question.

If you are referring to the way I answer peoples' questions, then all I can say is that I try my best not to be misleading. I also like not to waste time (i.e. with obvious follow-up question) and try to answer standard "follow-up" questions that are common to the LTPF. I notice that you are new here, but if you browse through past posts you'll notice that there is quite a predictable pattern to the questions that posters would ask.

Not everyone does this, of course, and they all have the right to decide how they want to answer the questions posed to them. I found that this works for me relatively well. You own mileage may vary.

And btw, welcome to the forums!


Davesnothere

Is the "somebody else" that has a relevant relationship between Jim and the writer, the same person or people? Yes

One person? Multiple people? Multiple people -- exact number is not that important, but it'll be around 10-20 people.

Is it the typo itself that offends? Yes and No -- you'll have to explore this a bit more, because I can't elaborate without either $poiling things or misleading.

The typo is evidence that the script was originally type-written using a keyboard, as the typo would not have occurred if writing by hand. Is this important? Yes

Was the hardcopy script that Jim was reading hand-written? Is there a ghostwriter involved? Is plagiarism a factor? Does Jim feel that the writer is misrepresenting the authorship of the script? No to all of this.
Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
New member
Username: Davesnothere

Post Number: 159
Registered: 3-2009
Posted on Thursday, June 11, 2009 - 6:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does Jim realize that the typo is the result of a simple keystroking oversight?

Is the presence of the typo an indication that the script has not been proofread? Is proofreading relavent? Were the others who are involved supposed to have read the script?

Is Jim a perfectionist? Is he angered by trivial mistakes?

Had the typo been "Nim" or "Jiu", would Jim have been equally as angry? What about "Tim"?

There's a real life narrative outside of the script. Does it involve a previous typo?

Do wordprocessing functions play a part? Was a search and replace function used?

Is the identity of the person who typed the script important? Did the writer type it?

Hardcopy is important you say. Had the script been e-mailed and the typo was present in electronic format, would Jim have been equally as offended?

Had more people than Jim read the particular copy of the script that Jim now held in his hands? Is this important?

There is a single instance of "Kim" in the place of Jim and it is part of a stage direction. Had Kim appeared in a line of dialog, would it have also offended? (Jim: "I remember Kim from highschool") Is it the fact that the typo involves his own name a problem?
Kalira (Kalira)
New member
Username: Kalira

Post Number: 182
Registered: 2-2009
Posted on Thursday, June 11, 2009 - 1:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Jim angry because it says Kim? Or because he realizes it should say Jim?

He is confused because this is the only instance of the name Kim, correct (i.e., "Wait a minute, who's Kim?")? Is he angry because his character is supposed to do something he (the actor) does not want to have to do? Does the character die (at this point in the script)?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member
Username: Haenlomal

Post Number: 1000
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Friday, June 12, 2009 - 5:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Davesnothere

Does Jim realize that the typo is the result of a simple keystroking oversight? Yes

Is the presence of the typo an indication that the script has not been proofread? Well, yes, but irrelevant. Is proofreading relevant? No Were the others who are involved supposed to have read the script? Some of them undoubtedly have done so, but maybe not all.

Is Jim a perfectionist? Irrelevant Is he angered by trivial mistakes? Irrelevant

Had the typo been "Nim" or "Jiu", would Jim have been equally as angry? What about "Tim"? Jim would have been equally as angry if he somehow recognizes that the writer was trying to type "Jim" instead of whichever typo he made.

There's a real life narrative outside of the script. Does it involve a previous typo? No

Do wordprocessing functions play a part? YES -- good question! Was a search and replace function used? YES -- good question!

Is the identity of the person who typed the script important? If by identity, you mean his name, then no. For convenience sake, let's call the writer Will. Did the writer type it? Yes

Hardcopy is important you say. Had the script been e-mailed and the typo was present in electronic format, would Jim have been equally as offended? Yes

Had more people than Jim read the particular copy of the script that Jim now held in his hands? No -- Jim would have been the only person who has read this particular copy of the script. Presumably, other actors involved in the production have their own copy of it. Is this important? No

There is a single instance of "Kim" in the place of Jim and it is part of a stage direction. Had Kim appeared in a line of dialog, would it have also offended? Yes -- good question! (Jim: "I remember Kim from highschool") Is it the fact that the typo involves his own name a problem? Yes, but as you've no doubt start to realize, that's only part of the story...

Some very good progress made here. =)

Kalira

Is Jim angry because it says Kim? No -- good question! Or because he realizes it should say Jim? Exactly. Well done.

He is confused because this is the only instance of the name Kim, correct (i.e., "Wait a minute, who's Kim?")? Yes -- good question! Is he angry because his character is supposed to do something he (the actor) does not want to have to do? No, but this is not far from the right forest... Does the character die (at this point in the script)? Irrelevant.

Again, some solid progress made here!
Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
New member
Username: Davesnothere

Post Number: 165
Registered: 3-2009
Posted on Saturday, June 13, 2009 - 12:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bear with me as I try to reconcile some seeming discrepancies in your answers -- I'm not trying to challenge you or to complain, but rather to make sure that I have a clear understanding of the answers:

I asked:
There is a single instance of "Kim" in the place of Jim and it is part of a stage direction. Had Kim appeared in a line of dialog, would it have also offended? You answered, "Yes -- good question!" I then gave the following example - (Jim: "I remember Kim from highschool")

Kalira then asked:
Is Jim angry because it says Kim? You answered, "No -- good question!" Kalira then went on ask: Or because he realizes it should say Jim? You answered "Exactly. Well done."

Here's my confusion -- in the dialog example I cited (Jim: "I remember Kim from highschool"), the name Kim was not supposed to be Jim; he was speaking of a girl named Kim.

So here's the same question constructed differently: Would any single instance of the word "Kim" in the script have offended Jim, regardless of its context? Or would it only have offended if it was apparent to Jim that it was typographical misspelling of his name?

Another example to illustrate the question -- as part of the script, Jim's character is watching the Miss America pageant and the emcee announces that "Kim" Bimbowski has won the swimsuit competition. Would the mention of Kim in this context have offended Jim?

Second clarification -- when I asked if he would have been equally as offended if he had received the script via e-mail and had seen the typo in electronic format, you answered yes. This seems to contradict your earlier statement that it was important that he was reading from hardcopy. Will this apparent contradiction be reconciled when we arrive at the correct solution? Does it turn out that hardcopy is relevant for reasons that go beyond his level of anger?

On to new questions -- Search & Replace had been used. Was it used to replace all instances of another name or generic term (e.g., Male_Lead_Actor) with "Jim"? Is the typo evidence that the script had been modified from its original version after the Search & Replace was performed? Does this get to the crux of the problem for Jim?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member
Username: Haenlomal

Post Number: 1001
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Saturday, June 13, 2009 - 11:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Davesnothere

Bear with me as I try to reconcile some seeming discrepancies in your answers -- I'm not trying to challenge you or to complain, but rather to make sure that I have a clear understanding of the answers: No problem. I have been known to make errors in the past, so this is a good idea!

I asked:
There is a single instance of "Kim" in the place of Jim and it is part of a stage direction. Had Kim appeared in a line of dialog, would it have also offended? You answered, "Yes -- good question!" I then gave the following example - (Jim: "I remember Kim from highschool")

Kalira then asked:
Is Jim angry because it says Kim? You answered, "No -- good question!" Kalira then went on ask: Or because he realizes it should say Jim? You answered "Exactly. Well done."

Here's my confusion -- in the dialog example I cited (Jim: "I remember Kim from highschool"), the name Kim was not supposed to be Jim; he was speaking of a girl named Kim.

So here's the same question constructed differently: Would any single instance of the word "Kim" in the script have offended Jim, regardless of its context? Yes Or would it only have offended if it was apparent to Jim that it was typographical misspelling of his name? Yes -- and I think I understand your confusion now, so I'll attempt to clarify: Jim would be offended by any instance of the word "Kim" because he realizes it is actually supposed to say "Jim". If the typo was something else, but Jim is able to recognize that it is supposed to be his name, then he would be equally offended. Why Jim finds this offensive has yet to be determined, and is a key part of this puzzle.

Another example to illustrate the question -- as part of the script, Jim's character is watching the Miss America pageant and the emcee announces that "Kim" Bimbowski has won the swimsuit competition. Would the mention of Kim in this context have offended Jim? Well, I suppose that in this instance, it would depend on the context of the script. If Kim Bimbowski was an obvious one-mention throwaway name in the script, then Jim would not be offended. However, if Kim Bimbowski was obviously a typo'ed reference to a recurring character in the script, and Jim thinks should have read "Jim", then Jim would have been offended.

Second clarification -- when I asked if he would have been equally as offended if he had received the script via e-mail and had seen the typo in electronic format, you answered yes. This seems to contradict your earlier statement that it was important that he was reading from hardcopy. Will this apparent contradiction be reconciled when we arrive at the correct solution? Does it turn out that hardcopy is relevant for reasons that go beyond his level of anger? Since you have already uncovered the relevant point, I'll toss this one in for free. The hardcopy is important because it implies that the document was originally typed up electronically. You have already made the lateral leap that the Search & Replace function is relevant to this puzzle. That's the only reason why the hardcopy is important. I apologize if I seem to have indicated that the hardcopy was more significant than this.

On to new questions -- Search & Replace had been used. Was it used to replace all instances of another name or generic term (e.g., Male_Lead_Actor) with "Jim"? No, but if you reverse your thinking... Is the typo evidence that the script had been modified from its original version after the Search & Replace was performed? Well, depends on what you mean by "original version". Many scriptwriters use placeholder names in the initial draft of their script. Then when it's done, they'd replace the placeholders with proper names as appropriate. So, what is the original version in this case -- the one with or without placeholder names? At any rate, the version released by the writer was the one after the replacement of placeholder names was done. Does this get to the crux of the problem for Jim? This is very close to the crux of the problem.
Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
New member
Username: Davesnothere

Post Number: 182
Registered: 3-2009
Posted on Sunday, June 14, 2009 - 6:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Let me try this -- assume the original script is the one with the placeholder prior to the insertion of Jim's name via the Search and Replace function. The "Kim" typo could be evidence that one of two things might have happened:

1. The text containing the typo existed in the original script before the Search and Replace function was used to insert Jim's name to it. This might offend Jim if he thinks the writer presumed that Jim would agree to play the part at the time he was writing it, and before Jim had been asked to and consented to take the part. Or ...

2. The text containing the typo was added after the Search and Replace function was used to insert Jim's name to the original script. This might offend Jim if he thinks the writer is not being faithful to the original.

Even if I don't have the reason for offense correct, was Jim concerned that the typo was in the original script? Or was added later? Which of the two scenarios above is closest?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member
Username: Haenlomal

Post Number: 1003
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Monday, June 15, 2009 - 7:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Let me try this -- assume the original script is the one with the placeholder prior to the insertion of Jim's name via the Search and Replace function. The "Kim" typo could be evidence that one of two things might have happened: There is a FA in this paragraph which I think is the cause for most of the current confusion.

1. The text containing the typo existed in the original script before the Search and Replace function was used to insert Jim's name to it. This might offend Jim if he thinks the writer presumed that Jim would agree to play the part at the time he was writing it, and before Jim had been asked to and consented to take the part. Or ...

2. The text containing the typo was added after the Search and Replace function was used to insert Jim's name to the original script. This might offend Jim if he thinks the writer is not being faithful to the original.

Even if I don't have the reason for offense correct, was Jim concerned that the typo was in the original script? Or was added later? Which of the two scenarios above is closest? Can't really answer these questions due to the FA.
Stephanleclercq (Stephanleclercq)
New member
Username: Stephanleclercq

Post Number: 1
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Monday, June 15, 2009 - 7:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

His correct ("jim") name was originally present. The author did some clever full-text search & replace that replaced "jim" by "kim".

This was enough for the reader to understand what word was replaced by another. He then was able to imagine what the text was before the search&replace. And that text was offensive somehow.
Buzzard (Buzzard)
New member
Username: Buzzard

Post Number: 1054
Registered: 6-2003
Posted on Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 1:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the typo reveal to Jim that Will had NOT in fact written the script with a placeholder and then done a search and replace? That Will had written the script with Jim's part as "Jim" from the very beginning?

If so, does this imply that Will intended all along for Jim to play that particular part? And therefore the auditions (were there auditions?) were fixed? Or does it imply that Will hadn't finished writing the script until after Jim was chosen for that role? When in fact he was supposed to have finished it much earlier?
Stephanleclercq (Stephanleclercq)
New member
Username: Stephanleclercq

Post Number: 3
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 7:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, I realize now that my post is not very clear... let me restate it.

The author has written some text, offensive to Jim. Realizing that, he made a global search&replace that changed the offensive text to something more appropriate, but had the side effect to also replace the name "Jim" by "Kim".

By seeing the "Kim" typo, Jim understood that, and was able to "undo" the change, mentally reconstructing the original offensive text.

I'm not fluent enough in English to retrieve what the offensive text might be...
Bolapara (Bolapara)
New member
Username: Bolapara

Post Number: 792
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 7:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Jim angry because this indicates that his name was placed in the script before he accepted the position? perhaps after initially declining it?

Was he angry because there was a condition that his name not be used as a character? Is the script based on Jim's life and he's angry because this typo means that others were alerted to that fact, and he wanted them to think of it as fiction, or as something that happened to someone else?
Bolapara (Bolapara)
New member
Username: Bolapara

Post Number: 793
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 7:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the specialized knowledge about the search and replace feature? Or is it something specific to Jim's situation that hasn't been gotten to yet?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member
Username: Haenlomal

Post Number: 1007
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 11:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Stephanleclercq

His correct ("jim") name was originally present. The author did some clever full-text search & replace that replaced "jim" by "kim".

This was enough for the reader to understand what word was replaced by another. He then was able to imagine what the text was before the search&replace. And that text was offensive somehow.

I'll address this in your clarified post below.

Buzzard

Hello Johanna, long time no see!

Does the typo reveal to Jim that Will had NOT in fact written the script with a placeholder and then done a search and replace? No That Will had written the script with Jim's part as "Jim" from the very beginning? No, but this is very close to the right forest.

If so, does this imply that Will intended all along for Jim to play that particular part? And therefore the auditions (were there auditions?) were fixed? Or does it imply that Will hadn't finished writing the script until after Jim was chosen for that role? When in fact he was supposed to have finished it much earlier? The rest of these questions are N/A.

Stephanleclercq, again

Well, I realize now that my post is not very clear... let me restate it.

The author has written some text, offensive to Jim. Yes Realizing that, he made a global search&replace that changed the offensive text to something more appropriate, Yes but had the side effect to also replace the name "Jim" by "Kim". But no to this.

By seeing the "Kim" typo, Jim understood that, and was able to "undo" the change, mentally reconstructing the original offensive text. Yes

I'm not fluent enough in English to retrieve what the offensive text might be... There is one little factoid outside of the production that has yet to be discovered. Discovering this factoid will help immensely in solving this puzzle.

And oh...welcome to the forums, Stephan. =)

Bolapara

Is Jim angry because this indicates that his name was placed in the script before he accepted the position? perhaps after initially declining it? No to these.

Was he angry because there was a condition that his name not be used as a character? No Is the script based on Jim's life and he's angry because this typo means that others were alerted to that fact, and he wanted them to think of it as fiction, or as something that happened to someone else? No, but good thinking. Having said that, there is a relevant aspect of Jim's life that has yet to be discovered -- this is the factoid I was alluding to earlier in my answers to Stephanleclercq.

Bolapara, again

Is the specialized knowledge about the search and replace feature? Yes Or is it something specific to Jim's situation that hasn't been gotten to yet? No
Buzzard (Buzzard)
New member
Username: Buzzard

Post Number: 1056
Registered: 6-2003
Posted on Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 12:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Will do a search and replace on Jim's character name more than once? Did he initially type the script with "Jim" throughout? Or with a placeholder? Did he do a search and replace to change "Jim" to a placeholder? a placeholder to "Jim"? either one to/from some other actor's name?

When Jim looked at the script before, was that version identical to the version that made him upset?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member
Username: Haenlomal

Post Number: 1009
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 1:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Buzzard

Did Will do a search and replace on Jim's character name more than once? No Did he initially type the script with "Jim" throughout? Yes Or with a placeholder? Presumably there were other placeholders that the writer used, but these are irrelevant. Did he do a search and replace to change "Jim" to a placeholder? This is the closest -- "Jim" was the placeholder name, and Will changed it something else. a placeholder to "Jim"? either one to/from some other actor's name?

When Jim looked at the script before, was that version identical to the version that made him upset? Yes -- as indicated in the recap, Jim missed the typo on his initial view because he only skimmed through it quickly. His second and much more thorough reading revealed the typo to him.
Buzzard (Buzzard)
New member
Username: Buzzard

Post Number: 1057
Registered: 6-2003
Posted on Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 2:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So "Jim" was the placeholder - did you really have to give that away? Are you getting so sick of this puzzle?

Did the script that Jim read actually say "Jim" anywhere in it? Did Will use "Jim" as the placeholder for the part that he wanted Jim to play? Or for a different part?

Was Jim offended by the fact that Will had used "Jim" as a placeholder? Because it revealed that Will identified Jim with that character in some way?
Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
New member
Username: Davesnothere

Post Number: 212
Registered: 3-2009
Posted on Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 3:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I don't really think he gave away Jim as the placeholder because your 2nd and 3rd questions taken together and answered "yes" would have made it clear that the Jim was the placeholder.

Was Jim offended by being typecast? Would Jim have preferred to play a different part? Is the typo evidence that the writer never seriously considered having Jim play other parts? Was the writer involved in the process of choosing which actors play which parts?

Was the part for which Jim was a placeholder an unattractive character? Did unattractive aspects of the character strike too close to home for Jim?

Just to confirm, the presence of the typo indicates to Jim that his name was originally used as the placeholder for the part, correct? Once we have discovered why Jim was offended by being used as the placeholder for this part, will we have solved the puzzle? Or is there more?
Stephanleclercq (Stephanleclercq)
New member
Username: Stephanleclercq

Post Number: 5
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 5:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

>> And oh...welcome to the forums, Stephan. =)

Thanks. How did you know I'm new? Oh, maybe post number=1? C'mon, my first lateral puzzle was an easy one -)

Was the script offensive to Jim alone? Or to a group of people (blacks, jews, gays)? Did Jim belong to that group? Was he an activist for the legal rights of that group?

Did Will the writer know about Jim's membership to the group at the time of the writing? Did he discover it later and redacted the text?

Did the search&replace involve a single letter? a word? a group of words? a whole sentence? more?

Did the s&r replace the letter/word/etc. ? remove it? add it?
Stephanleclercq (Stephanleclercq)
New member
Username: Stephanleclercq

Post Number: 6
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 5:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wow, brainwave! Were Jim and Will in a romantic relationship? Is Will a woman?
Stephanleclercq (Stephanleclercq)
New member
Username: Stephanleclercq

Post Number: 7
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 7:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wow, brainwave! Were Jim and Will in a romantic relationship? Is Will a woman?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member
Username: Haenlomal

Post Number: 1010
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Friday, June 19, 2009 - 1:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Buzzard

So "Jim" was the placeholder - did you really have to give that away? Are you getting so sick of this puzzle? I did not think it was a giveaway, given the answers to the set of questions that were asked. But perhaps I had been a bit hasty. My apologies if that is the case.

Did the script that Jim read actually say "Jim" anywhere in it? No Did Will use "Jim" as the placeholder for the part that he wanted Jim to play? No Or for a different part? Yes

Was Jim offended by the fact that Will had used "Jim" as a placeholder? No Because it revealed that Will identified Jim with that character in some way? Yes, good question.

Davesnothere

I don't really think he gave away Jim as the placeholder because your 2nd and 3rd questions taken together and answered "yes" would have made it clear that the Jim was the placeholder.

Was Jim offended by being typecast? Would Jim have preferred to play a different part? Is the typo evidence that the writer never seriously considered having Jim play other parts? Was the writer involved in the process of choosing which actors play which parts? Nothing like what is implied by this set of questions is happening in this puzzle.

Was the part for which Jim was a placeholder an unattractive character? Yes Did unattractive aspects of the character strike too close to home for Jim? That's it! Well done.

Just to confirm, the presence of the typo indicates to Jim that his name was originally used as the placeholder for the part, correct? Yes Once we have discovered why Jim was offended by being used as the placeholder for this part, will we have solved the puzzle? Yes Or is there more? No

Stephanleclercq

>> And oh...welcome to the forums, Stephan. =)

Thanks. How did you know I'm new? Oh, maybe post number=1? C'mon, my first lateral puzzle was an easy one -)

Was the script offensive to Jim alone? This one Or to a group of people (blacks, jews, gays)? Did Jim belong to that group? Was he an activist for the legal rights of that group? No to the rest of the questions.

Did Will the writer know about Jim's membership to the group at the time of the writing? N/A since Jim did not belong to part of any relevant group. Did he discover it later and redacted the text? No

Did the search&replace involve a single letter? a word? A word a group of words? a whole sentence? more?

Did the s&r replace the letter/word/etc. ? This one remove it? add it?

Stephanleclercq, again

Wow, brainwave! Were Jim and Will in a romantic relationship? Is Will a woman? Nothing like this, but good thinking.

This last set of questions had advanced the puzzle far enough for me to justify posting a $poiler. However, since I'll be out of town for a few days with limited internet access, I shall defer a more proper explanation of the puzzle until a later date. Congratulations to all who partcipated, and well done.
Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
New member
Username: Davesnothere

Post Number: 221
Registered: 3-2009
Posted on Friday, June 19, 2009 - 3:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do any of the following describe Jim (insert LTPF list of possibly unattractive traits): overweight, bald, short, very tall, has a speech impediment, has a cleft pallet, acne scarred, effeminate, physical deformity, cross-eyed, ears stick out, walks with a limp, abrasive, paranoid, angered by typos, personality disorder, manic depressive, borderline personality disorder, posts unnecessarily detailed questions, psychotic, neurotic, phobic?

If not listed above, is the trait physical? Psychological? Related to personality?
Ohlala8 (Ohlala8)
New member
Username: Ohlala8

Post Number: 10
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Friday, June 26, 2009 - 8:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was this by any chance inspired by The Office? :-) You threw me off when Jim's name wasn't Dwight and he was an actual actor, but the story is basically the same. Since you're planning to $poil it anyway, I'm going to go ahead and lay out a scenario. Will (similar to Michael on The Office) thinks that Jim (aka Dwight) is unattractive or incompetent, and writes a very exaggeratedly idiotic character based on him. He identifies Jim so strongly with this character that in the original version of the script, the character is named Jim. But he doesn't want to ruffle any feathers, so he runs a search and replace function and offers Jim a different part, which he accepts. However, unbeknownst to him, he has misspelled Jim as Kim at one point (or Dwight as Dwigt), and the search and replace function therefore didn't work in this instance. Jim thus knows that he was the inspiration for a very unflattering character.

I love The Office. I loved that episode. And now I love you, for turning it into a lateral thinking puzzle. Great idea.
Kriskingle (Kriskingle)
New member
Username: Kriskingle

Post Number: 1
Registered: 6-2008
Posted on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 4:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

hi...i am new to the forum, so bear with me a while...reading the whole puzzle and list of questions that follow, i am tempted to ask one of my own...is jim the actor upset because the placeholder name that will the writer used, reveals something personal about him, something only known to will and himself?
Rcs (Rcs)
New member
Username: Rcs

Post Number: 464
Registered: 9-2008
Posted on Thursday, July 23, 2009 - 5:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are we going to get a $poyler on this any time soon, given that Ohlala8 has pretty much solved it?
Haenlomal (Haenlomal)
New member
Username: Haenlomal

Post Number: 1011
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Sunday, July 26, 2009 - 9:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry for my late response. After my vacation, I was sick, and then I had to attend to several other stuff. At any rate, here's the long awaited...

***************** SPOILER ********************

Ohlala8 pretty much got this one. One of the characters in Will's play was an idiot. To achieve this effect, Will exaggerated some negative personal traits of Jim, going to the extent of writing Jim's name as a placeholder. After he decided on a final name for Jim's character, he performed a search and replace on all instances of Jim with the new name.

Unfortunately, Will made a typo. In one place, instead of "Jim", he wrote "Kim". Therefore, when Jim carefully scrutinized the script, he was able to notice the name "Kim", deduce what character Kim was supposed to be, and had enough self-awareness to realized the Will's character was a very negative caricature of him. Needless to say, Jim wasn't impressed....

A note to Ohlala8: Actually, I did not base this on The Office -- despite being a fan of the show, I haven't seen all the episodes -- but on my own real life experience. That said, I had since watched the episode in question, and I have to admit that the scenario there describes this puzzle almost right down to the T! Fortunately, in my real-life case, the character I played was nowhere near as idiotic and incompetent as Dwight's so it was more funny than anything else...

Congratulations to all who played, and well done!

Add Your Message Here
Post:
Username: Posting Information:
This is a private posting area. Only registered users and moderators may post messages here.
Password:
Options: Enable HTML code in message
Automatically activate URLs in message
Action: