| Author | Message | ||
| Tobasi (Tobasi)
New member Username: Tobasi Post Number: 888 Registered: 8-2006 |
In two similar cases in history something had to be slowed down to please his creator. What happened (let's call the cases A and B)? | ||
| Tobasi (Tobasi)
New member Username: Tobasi Post Number: 889 Registered: 8-2006 |
"its creator" I should say | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 740 Registered: 5-2003 |
Is/was he H/A/M? In both cases? True incidents? Incidents related? Please answer separately for both A and B if answers are different. Was the item being slowed down alive? A machine? Manufactured? Did it have a specific purpose? Would the creator make a profit? If the item was slowed down? | ||
| Tobasi (Tobasi)
New member Username: Tobasi Post Number: 890 Registered: 8-2006 |
Is/was he H/A/M? In both cases? yes to all True incidents? yes for both Incidents related? no, but define related Please answer separately for both A and B if answers are different. Was the item being slowed down alive? no for both A machine? no for both Manufactured? no for both Did it have a specific purpose? yes for both Would the creator make a profit? If the item was slowed down? no for A, yesish for B | ||
| Finno (Finno)
New member Username: Finno Post Number: 57 Registered: 2-2009 |
Was the item being slowed down: - A chemical process? - A sequence of events? - A superstition? Century in which this happened relevant? If yes, what century did this happen in? 19th? 20th? 21st? Just to clarify: The creator remains same in both the cases, and he was alive in both the cases? What was the gap between these two events? 1 to 5 years? less than a decade? more than a decade? | ||
| Tobasi (Tobasi)
New member Username: Tobasi Post Number: 891 Registered: 8-2006 |
Was the item being slowed down: - A chemical process? no for both cases - A sequence of events? noish for both cases - A superstition? no for both cases Century in which this happened relevant? If yes, what century did this happen in? 19th? 20th? 21st? yes, 19th for A, 20th for B Just to clarify: The creator remains same in both the cases, and he was alive in both the cases? two different creators, both were alive What was the gap between these two events? 1 to 5 years? less than a decade? more than a decade? roughly a century | ||
| Finno (Finno)
New member Username: Finno Post Number: 58 Registered: 2-2009 |
Can this happen in the 21st century? Is this related to election process? Are the two creators related to each other? Who slowed down the item? The creators or other people? How was the item slowed down - By using inferior machinery/material in executing it? By increasing the downtime between intermediate steps? By slowing down each and every step in the process? | ||
| Tobasi (Tobasi)
New member Username: Tobasi Post Number: 893 Registered: 8-2006 |
Can this happen in the 21st century? yes but irr Is this related to election process? no Are the two creators related to each other? yes in some way Who slowed down the item? (here is a small fa)The creators or other people? other people How was the item slowed down (the same fa)- By using inferior machinery/material in executing it? no By increasing the downtime between intermediate steps? no By slowing down each and every step in the process? this one is closest but not the best description | ||
| Finno (Finno)
New member Username: Finno Post Number: 59 Registered: 2-2009 |
Vehicle design/technology relevant? Is it relevant in what way are the two creators related? If yes, then what is the relation? Same family tree? Practitioners of the same branch of science? Teacher-Student? the thing was physically moving and had to be slowed down? | ||
| Tobasi (Tobasi)
New member Username: Tobasi Post Number: 894 Registered: 8-2006 |
Vehicle design/technology relevant? no Is it relevant in what way are the two creators related? yes If yes, then what is the relation? Same family tree? no Practitioners of the same branch yes of science? no Teacher-Student? no the thing was physically moving and had to be slowed down? no | ||
| Finno (Finno)
New member Username: Finno Post Number: 61 Registered: 2-2009 |
Has it got something to do with the measurement of time? Was it a clock? A calender? A mathematical model? | ||
| Tobasi (Tobasi)
New member Username: Tobasi Post Number: 895 Registered: 8-2006 |
Has it got something to do with the measurement of time? noish Was it a clock? A calender? A mathematical model? no to all, sorry | ||
| Lporter229 (Lporter229)
New member Username: Lporter229 Post Number: 350 Registered: 11-2007 |
Was "it" an item? a process? | ||
| Tobasi (Tobasi)
New member Username: Tobasi Post Number: 896 Registered: 8-2006 |
Was "it" an item? a process? Neither, only for svv of item you could call it item or process. | ||
| Abc (Abc)
Moderator Username: Abc Post Number: 126 Registered: 7-2006 |
Was "it" something that one can touch? See? Hear? Can "it" be said to have a measurable physical size? Weight? Duration? Was "it" an event of some sort? | ||
| Tobasi (Tobasi)
New member Username: Tobasi Post Number: 897 Registered: 8-2006 |
Was "it" something that one can touch? no See? no Hear? yes, in both cases Can "it" be said to have a measurable physical size? noish Weight? no Duration? yes, in both cases Was "it" an event of some sort? yesish for A, no for B | ||
| Abc (Abc)
Moderator Username: Abc Post Number: 127 Registered: 7-2006 |
So, is it just a sound? What one hears, does it amount to spoken words? Music? Some type of sound that I am likely to have heard? Duration - more than a second? Minute? Hour? Day? | ||
| Tobasi (Tobasi)
New member Username: Tobasi Post Number: 898 Registered: 8-2006 |
So, is it just a sound? see below What one hears, does it amount to spoken words? see below Music? yes for both Some type of sound that I am likely to have heard? possibly for A, likely for B Duration - more than a second? Minute? this for both Hour? Day? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 754 Registered: 5-2003 |
Is the 19th century one (let's call that A, and the other B) related to Edison and the gramophone? The other related to CDs or some other more modern recording/listening device that can be sped up or slowed? | ||
| Noobdogg (Noobdogg)
New member Username: Noobdogg Post Number: 717 Registered: 9-2007 |
Were the creators composers? Symphonies relevant? | ||
| Finno (Finno)
New member Username: Finno Post Number: 63 Registered: 2-2009 |
Were the creators pleases because the slowdown helped them - monetarily? got publicity/fame? peace of mind? | ||
| Tobasi (Tobasi)
New member Username: Tobasi Post Number: 899 Registered: 8-2006 |
Jenburdoo: Is the 19th century one (let's call that A, and the other B) related to Edison and the gramophone? no The other related to CDs or some other more modern recording/listening device that can be sped up or slowed? no, less modern than CDs but on the right track Noobdogg: Were the creators composers? yes Symphonies relevant? no Finno: Were the creators pleases because the slowdown helped them - monetarily? noish got publicity/fame? noish peace of mind? exacly this for A, mostly this for B | ||
| Abc (Abc)
Moderator Username: Abc Post Number: 131 Registered: 7-2006 |
Is one of the composers Scott Joplin? Is the opera Treemonisha relevant? | ||
| Tobasi (Tobasi)
New member Username: Tobasi Post Number: 900 Registered: 8-2006 |
Is one of the composers Scott Joplin? no Is the opera Treemonisha relevant? no | ||
| Abc (Abc)
Moderator Username: Abc Post Number: 133 Registered: 7-2006 |
Is one of the composers famous? Both? Composer A - orchestra music? Smaller-ensemble music? Composer B's work, is it from before 1950? '60? '70? '80? '90? | ||
| Tobasi (Tobasi)
New member Username: Tobasi Post Number: 901 Registered: 8-2006 |
Is one of the composers famous? Both? both are famous, the one in B is only a composer for svv of composer Composer A - orchestra music? Smaller-ensemble music? Composer A is known for works including an orchestra and the puzzle refers to one of these. Composer B's work, is it from before 1950? '60? '70? this -> the sixties '80? '90? | ||
| Gourami (Gourami)
Moderator Username: Gourami Post Number: 154 Registered: 10-2008 |
Was composer A slowing down--the tempo on the sheet music? The tempo that his/her piece was played in one particular performance? The speed that the piece is played back in some kind of recording? Was composer B slowing down--the tempo on the sheet music? The tempo that his/her piece was played in one particular performance? The speed that the piece is played back in some kind of recording? Was the motive for slowing down the music to get it to fit into a certain amount of time? To fulfill the wants/needs of an audience? To allow a recording to take place? | ||
| Tobasi (Tobasi)
New member Username: Tobasi Post Number: 903 Registered: 8-2006 |
Was composer A slowing down--the tempo on the sheet music? no The tempo that his/her piece was played in one particular performance? yes The speed that the piece is played back in some kind of recording? noish Was composer B slowing down--the tempo on the sheet music? no The tempo that his/her piece was played in one particular performance? no The speed that the piece is played back in some kind of recording? yes Was the motive for slowing down the music to get it to fit into a certain amount of time? no To fulfill the wants/needs of an audience? yes for A, yesish for B To allow a recording to take place? no for A, yes for B | ||
| Abc (Abc)
Moderator Username: Abc Post Number: 142 Registered: 7-2006 |
Is it important to establish the identities of the composers? Is A Gustav Mahler? The audience of A's work, a normal audience consisting of a few tens or hundreds of people? Was the audience physically present at the performance? In full? In part? Did the people making up the audience have any common trait apart from being the audience, and the taste for A's music? | ||
| Gourami (Gourami)
Moderator Username: Gourami Post Number: 160 Registered: 10-2008 |
Was A's piece being performed at a ceremony of any kind? In a concert hall? In a private home? | ||
| Tobasi (Tobasi)
New member Username: Tobasi Post Number: 904 Registered: 8-2006 |
Abc: Is it important to establish the identities of the composers? yes Is A Gustav Mahler? no The audience of A's work, a normal audience consisting of a few tens or hundreds of people? say 5 - 20 rather normal people Was the audience physically present at the performance? yes In full? yes In part? no Did the people making up the audience have any common trait apart from being the audience, and the taste for A's music? no, the audience as such is not relevant Gourami: Was A's piece being performed at a ceremony of any kind? no In a concert hall? no In a private home? no, but explore, this is relevant | ||
| Abc (Abc)
Moderator Username: Abc Post Number: 144 Registered: 7-2006 |
Did the composer A play his own music at this occasion? Relevant? Did the composer B play his own music at this occasion? Relevant? B is only yesishly a composer. In the same sense that for example The Beatles were only yesishly composers? B's work - category = Orchestral? Jazz? Rock? other type of "guitars, drums and vocals" music? | ||
| Tobasi (Tobasi)
New member Username: Tobasi Post Number: 905 Registered: 8-2006 |
Did the composer A play his own music at this occasion? no Relevant? yes Did the composer B play his own music at this occasion? yes Relevant? yes B is only yesishly a composer. In the same sense that for example The Beatles were only yesishly composers? yes and this is a very good examle.. B's work - category = Orchestral? Jazz? Rock? other type of "guitars, drums and vocals" music? Rock, but more than "guitars, drums and vocals", a bit Orchestral | ||
| Abc (Abc)
Moderator Username: Abc Post Number: 145 Registered: 7-2006 |
So, B is some member of The Beatles? Might A be one of... Ludwig van Beethoven? Hector Berlioz? Johannes Brahms? Franz Liszt? Robert Schumann? Richard Wagner? | ||
| Arek_fu (Arek_fu)
New member Username: Arek_fu Post Number: 701 Registered: 12-2007 |
Composer A: is he HAM? Is he from the [insert LTPF list of centuries]? Is he American? From the U.S.? European? Austrian? Italian? German? French? Spanish? Hungarian? Other? Composer B: is it indeed the Beatles? If so, were they playing an orchestral arrangement of one of their songs? Or was the song originally arranged for an orchestra? Is it "Good Night", maybe? | ||
| Arek_fu (Arek_fu)
New member Username: Arek_fu Post Number: 702 Registered: 12-2007 |
Forget the question about centuries, I have just noticed that you had already answered that he is from the 19th century. | ||
| Tobasi (Tobasi)
New member Username: Tobasi Post Number: 906 Registered: 8-2006 |
Composer A: is he HAM? yes Is he from the [insert LTPF list of centuries]? Is he American? From the U.S.? European? Austrian? Italian? German? this French? Spanish? Hungarian? Other? Composer B: is it indeed the Beatles? yes (one of them) If so, were they playing an orchestral arrangement of one of their songs? yes Or was the song originally arranged for an orchestra? A song written by someone else? No Is it "Good Night", maybe? no | ||
| Tobasi (Tobasi)
New member Username: Tobasi Post Number: 907 Registered: 8-2006 |
ABC: So, B is some member of The Beatles? yes Might A be one of... Ludwig van Beethoven? Hector Berlioz? Johannes Brahms? Franz Liszt? Robert Schumann? Richard Wagner? yes | ||
| Arek_fu (Arek_fu)
New member Username: Arek_fu Post Number: 703 Registered: 12-2007 |
John Lennon? Paul McCartney? George Harrison? Ringo Starr? Did the performance involve a song written by the Beatles? By the relevant Beatle? By someone else? | ||
| Tobasi (Tobasi)
New member Username: Tobasi Post Number: 908 Registered: 8-2006 |
John Lennon? yes Paul McCartney? George Harrison? Ringo Starr? Did the performance involve a song written by the Beatles? By the relevant Beatle? By someone else? The song was written mostly by John. | ||
| Arek_fu (Arek_fu)
New member Username: Arek_fu Post Number: 704 Registered: 12-2007 |
But it was originally performed by the Beatles, right? Should we identify the exact song? Is it among the most famous ones? Is the slowing down connected to the fact that the song was arranged for an orchestra? Had it been a "standard" performance, would the song have been slowed down? | ||
| Tobasi (Tobasi)
New member Username: Tobasi Post Number: 909 Registered: 8-2006 |
But it was originally performed by the Beatles, right? by the Beatles and other musicians Should we identify the exact song? Not necessarily Is it among the most famous ones? It is a rather famous song from middle of their career Is the slowing down connected to the fact that the song was arranged for an orchestra? yesish, but here is a bit if a fa Had it been a "standard" performance, would the song have been slowed down? no (but who knows?) You should call it rather recording than performance. | ||
| Abc (Abc)
Moderator Username: Abc Post Number: 146 Registered: 7-2006 |
Is it important to find out what Wagner work we're talking about? Was the specific performance of the work also made in the 19th century? If the work hadn't been slowed down... Would it have annoyed the audience? Would it have resulted in difficulties for the musicians? Is there anything special about the musicians, by the way? | ||
| Tobasi (Tobasi)
New member Username: Tobasi Post Number: 910 Registered: 8-2006 |
Is it important to find out what Wagner work we're talking about? no Was the specific performance of the work also made in the 19th century? yes and relevant If the work hadn't been slowed down... Would it have annoyed the audience? yes Would it have resulted in difficulties for the musicians? no Is there anything special about the musicians, by the way? yes, there has to be found out more for A | ||
| Abc (Abc)
Moderator Username: Abc Post Number: 147 Registered: 7-2006 |
Regarding A... If I had been there and seen the everything, would I have understood why the work would have to be slowed down? Is there something special about the musicians concerning their... Age? Nationality? Sex? Skin colour? Experience as musicians? Language? Culture? Religion? Political views? If the audience had been replaced by other, random persons, would the work still have had to be slowed? And if the musicians were replaced with other random (but equally able) musicians? | ||
| Tobasi (Tobasi)
New member Username: Tobasi Post Number: 912 Registered: 8-2006 |
Regarding A... If I had been there and seen the everything, would I have understood why the work would have to be slowed down? Probably, but only if you know the piece which was played. I think I don't give away too much if I say it was the bridal chorus from Lohengrin. Is there something special about the musicians concerning their... here is sort of a fa Age? Nationality? Sex? Skin colour? Experience as musicians? Language? Culture? Religion? Political views? Nothing of these (except for the experience), perhaps I misinterpretated your previous question. The something special is rather linked to the instrument. If the audience had been replaced by other, random persons, would the work still have had to be slowed? Supposedly not. There is something about the audience still to be found out. And if the musicians were replaced with other random (but equally able) musicians? yes, but same fa as above | ||
| Abc (Abc)
Moderator Username: Abc Post Number: 148 Registered: 7-2006 |
Is there only one musician? Is there only one instrument being played? Is there something special about the audience concerning their... Age? Nationality? Sex? Skin colour? Experience as musicians? Language? Culture? Religion? Political views? Mental abilities? Occupation? | ||
| Tobasi (Tobasi)
New member Username: Tobasi Post Number: 913 Registered: 8-2006 |
I assume you are still talking about case A: Is there only one musician? yes Is there only one instrument being played? yes Is there something special about the audience concerning their... Age? Nationality? Sex? Skin colour? Experience as musicians? yes Language? Culture? Religion? Political views? Mental abilities? Occupation? yes. No or irr to the rest. In fact there is nothing special about the audience to be found out. Only some of the facts already found out have to be put together. | ||
| Arek_fu (Arek_fu)
New member Username: Arek_fu Post Number: 716 Registered: 12-2007 |
Still about case A: maybe Wagner himself was part of the audience? Or some other famous composer or musician? The author of the libretto? Relevant that the bridal chorus of Lohengrin is commonly used as a wedding march? Did this take place at a wedding, indeed? The bride could not walk fast enough to the altar and the march had to be slowed down (or something along these lines)? | ||
| Tobasi (Tobasi)
New member Username: Tobasi Post Number: 914 Registered: 8-2006 |
Still about case A: maybe Wagner himself was part of the audience? yes (and this is all to be found out about the audience) Or some other famous composer or musician? no The author of the libretto? no Relevant that the bridal chorus of Lohengrin is commonly used as a wedding march? no Did this take place at a wedding, indeed? no The bride could not walk fast enough to the altar and the march had to be slowed down (or something along these lines)? nice idea but no | ||
| Abc (Abc)
Moderator Username: Abc Post Number: 149 Registered: 7-2006 |
Is the performance given for some reason other than letting the audience enjoy the music? Is the performer at an audition? Is the performer and/or the audience wanting to study some details of the music? | ||
| Tobasi (Tobasi)
New member Username: Tobasi Post Number: 915 Registered: 8-2006 |
Is the performance given for some reason other than letting the audience enjoy the music? yesish Is the performer at an audition? no Is the performer and/or the audience wanting to study some details of the music? no The most important part left to find out for A is the instrument of the performer. Concerning B, why was the speed of the recording artificially decreased? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 576 Registered: 5-2007 |
This performer of the march from Lohengrin: was he a street musician of some kind? | ||
| Tobasi (Tobasi)
New member Username: Tobasi Post Number: 916 Registered: 8-2006 |
This performer of the march from Lohengrin: was he a street musician of some kind? exactly, I guess you know the story... | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 577 Registered: 5-2007 |
I am not sure whether I know the story or not, but I have a dim recollection that one day Wagner heard some performer on the hurdy-gurdy or the street organ cranking out the bridal march from Lohengrin, and told him to turn the handle more slowly. If it is anything like this, then I guess this is what it is like. If memory serves further, the enterprising busker is said later to have displayed a notice on his pitch saying "Pupil of Richard Wagner". But this may be apocryphal or - more likely - my memory wholly unreliable. | ||
| Tobasi (Tobasi)
New member Username: Tobasi Post Number: 917 Registered: 8-2006 |
I am not sure whether I know the story or not, but I have a dim recollection that one day Wagner heard some performer on the hurdy-gurdy cranking out the bridal march from Lohengrin, and told him to turn the handle more slowly. If it is anything like this, then I guess this is what it is like. This is it for part A of the puzzle. Does anyone want to finish part B? | ||
| Abc (Abc)
Moderator Username: Abc Post Number: 150 Registered: 7-2006 |
So, did John Lennon tell someone to slow down his performance of a song? If so, a conductor? A single performer? | ||
| Tobasi (Tobasi)
New member Username: Tobasi Post Number: 918 Registered: 8-2006 |
So, did John Lennon tell someone to slow down his performance of a song? yope If so, a conductor? no A single performer? no | ||
| Gourami (Gourami)
New member Username: Gourami Post Number: 422 Registered: 2-2008 |
Did Lennon hear a recording of someone else playing a piece of his? If so, a cover? An orchestration? Or was someone else playing a recording of him performing a piece? If so, did he hear it? | ||
| Tobasi (Tobasi)
New member Username: Tobasi Post Number: 920 Registered: 8-2006 |
Did Lennon hear a recording of someone else playing a piece of his? yesish If so, a cover? no An orchestration? yes Or was someone else playing a recording of him performing a piece? also yes If so, did he hear it? yes In fact there were two recordings, one involving "orchestra instruments". This one had to be slowed down to please John. | ||
| Abc (Abc)
Moderator Username: Abc Post Number: 154 Registered: 7-2006 |
Were the recordings being played simultaneously? One right after another? Slowing down a recording usually also means lowering its pitch. Is this relevant? | ||
| Tobasi (Tobasi)
New member Username: Tobasi Post Number: 924 Registered: 8-2006 |
Were the recordings being played simultaneously? no One right after another? yes Slowing down a recording usually also means lowering its pitch. Is this relevant? yes SPOILER This puzzle is based on two anecdotes featuring some parallels. A - Richard Wagner and the barrel organ player Richard Wagner was walking through the town. A barrel organ player recognized him and started to play a piece of his (the famous bridal chorus from Lohengrin) but he was playing it way to fast. Wagner, furious that his work was blemished in this way, approached and took the crank-handle playing the piece much slower. He gave the player a generous tip and the advice to play the piece always at this tempo. The next day there was a sign on the barrel organ reading "Pupil of Richard Wagner". B - John Lennon and the recordings of Strawberry Fields Forever During the recordings of Strawberry Fields Forever the Beatles tried out different arrangements, including a version with mellotron and another one with cellos and trumpets. John Lennon told George Martin the producer that he wanted to combine both versions, although Martin had to tell Lennon that the orchestral score was at a higher tempo and in a different key (B major) than the first version (A major). Lennon said, "You can fix it, George", giving Martin and Geoff Emerick the sound engineer the difficult task of joining the two takes together. With only a pair of editing scissors, two tape machines, and a vari-speed control, Emerick compensated for the differences in key and speed by increasing the speed of the first version and decreasing the speed of the second. (from Wikipedia) Thanks to all for playing! |
