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Nimue (Nimue)
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Username: Nimue

Post Number: 4509
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Monday, July 13, 2009 - 11:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A problem with my toilet during the (incredibly inconvenient) July 4 weekend made me realize that I had a passive scrund about toilets, i.e., something false that I had taken for granted without ever really thinking about it. Once my misconception was flushed away, its falseness seemed obvious. What was it?
Logician (Logician)
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Post Number: 528
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Posted on Tuesday, July 14, 2009 - 1:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is flushing your toilet relevant? (Or was that just a useful metaphor? :-))

Is the scrund about where toilet water comes from? How the flushing mechanism actually works? Where the waste goes after it's been flushed? The necessity (or otherwise) of a particular feature of your toilet?

Was your problem with the cistern? The flushing mechanism? The pipings? That waste was getting stuck?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Post Number: 4511
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Posted on Tuesday, July 14, 2009 - 1:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Logician (Logician)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 14, 2009 - 1:08 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is flushing your toilet relevant? yes (Or was that just a useful metaphor? :-))

Is the scrund about where toilet water comes from? noHow the flushing mechanism actually works? yes Where the waste goes after it's been flushed? noThe necessity (or otherwise) of a particular feature of your toilet? yes

Was your problem with the cistern? huh? The flushing mechanism? no The pipings? noThat waste was getting stuck? no
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Username: Bentarm

Post Number: 1700
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Posted on Tuesday, July 14, 2009 - 2:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant that: the cistern (the bit where the water is kept) empties when you pull the flush? That it fills up afterwards?
Is anything relevant about where the water goes after you flush the toilet?
Sugarshane (Sugarshane)
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Username: Sugarshane

Post Number: 108
Registered: 7-2009
Posted on Tuesday, July 14, 2009 - 8:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

so a scrund is basically a misconception?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 14, 2009 - 8:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 14, 2009 - 2:08 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is it relevant that: the cistern (the bit where the water is kept) empties when you pull the flush? yesish That it fills up afterwards? yesish
Is anything relevant about where the water goes after you flush the toilet? no
Sugarshane (Sugarshane)
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Username: Sugarshane

Post Number: 108
Registered: 7-2009

Posted on Tuesday, July 14, 2009 - 8:09 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
so a scrund is basically a misconception?yes
Gourami (Gourami)
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Username: Gourami

Post Number: 333
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Tuesday, July 14, 2009 - 8:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did you think that a certain part of the toilet was purely decorative, though it is actually funcional? That it is functional, though it is actually decorative? That it had a different purpose?
Does this involve the area where water enters the bowl? Where water leaves the bowl? The moment that this happens?
Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
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Username: Davesnothere

Post Number: 307
Registered: 3-2009
Posted on Tuesday, July 14, 2009 - 9:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does it relate to how a toilet flushes using the siphon effect? You can flush a toilet with an empty or broken tank by merely dumping a bucket of water into the bowl -- the excess water in the bowl creates flow and velocity and the exiting momementum of the water evacuates the bowl via suction.

The scrund could be that the water in the tank pushes out the water in the bowl rather than the water in the bowl being pulled out via a siphon effect. Or, it could be that flushing opens some kind of drain mechanism downstream from the bowl. Or it could have something to do with how fast the tank fills after a flush. Or it could have something to do with the float mechanisms (quantity 2) in the tank. One is the mechanism that senses water height in the bowl and stops the filling when the tank is full. The other is a buoyant drain plug mechanism that keeps the plug out of the drain while the tank is emptying. Once the water is out of the tank, the plug can then flip down, seal the drain, and remain pressed into the drain by the pressure exerted from above by the water that is filling back into the tank. Is it related to any of these?

Puzzles about history, literature and high culture are beyond me, but I'm all over the fluid dynamics of toilets.
Nimue (Nimue)
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Username: Nimue

Post Number: 4523
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Posted on Thursday, July 16, 2009 - 8:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Gourami (Gourami)
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Username: Gourami

Post Number: 333
Registered: 10-2008

Posted on Tuesday, July 14, 2009 - 8:40 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Did you think that a certain part of the toilet was purely decorative, though it is actually funcional? no That it is functional, though it is actually decorative? no That it had a different purpose? yes
Does this involve the area where water enters the bowl? noish or yope Where water leaves the bowl? noThe moment that this happens? no
Davesnothere (Davesnothere)
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Username: Davesnothere

Post Number: 307
Registered: 3-2009

Posted on Tuesday, July 14, 2009 - 9:07 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Does it relate to how a toilet flushes using the siphon effect? yes You can flush a toilet with an empty or broken tank by merely dumping a bucket of water into the bowl -- the excess water in the bowl creates flow and velocity and the exiting momementum of the water evacuates the bowl via suction. yes

The scrund could be that the water in the tank pushes out the water in the bowl rather than the water in the bowl being pulled out via a siphon effect. Or, it could be that flushing opens some kind of drain mechanism downstream from the bowl. Or it could have something to do with how fast the tank fills after a flush. Or it could have something to do with the float mechanisms (quantity 2) in the tank. One is the mechanism that senses water height in the bowl and stops the filling when the tank is full. The other is a buoyant drain plug mechanism that keeps the plug out of the drain while the tank is emptying. Once the water is out of the tank, the plug can then flip down, seal the drain, and remain pressed into the drain by the pressure exerted from above by the water that is filling back into the tank. Is it related to any of these?

Puzzles about history, literature and high culture are beyond me, but I'm all over the fluid dynamics of toilets. I'm such an ignoramus about toilets that I'm going to spoil this puzzle, since you've solved it, rather than make a fool of myself by trying to answer questions I don't really understand


********** SPOILER ****************

OK, this is going to sound pretty stupid, but. . .when my toilet tank started leaking during the July 4 weekend, when I could not get a plumber, I was surprised when a friend pointed out that the tank's only function was to store water & that I could flush the toilet by just pouring water into the bowl. Have any of you ever had this scrund?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Username: Peter365

Post Number: 1963
Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Friday, July 17, 2009 - 10:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

LOL . I had this scrund as well until i was about 7 when i saw my mother pour a basin of water down the toilet to effect a flush . Toilets are actually a lot less complicated than you would imagine.
Nimue (Nimue)
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Username: Nimue

Post Number: 4544
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Friday, July 17, 2009 - 8:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It was silly of me to overlook how the word 'flush' is used on other contexts just to mean remove by pouring water, as in flushing a speck out of your eye. If I had kept that it mind, I might not have received my toilet surprise. By the way does anyone know whether it's true that the flush toilet was invented by a Colonel Crapper??
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Username: Peter365

Post Number: 1971
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Posted on Sunday, July 19, 2009 - 8:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

No that's a common misconception. Thomas Crapper was a plumber who did much to increase the popularity of the flush toilet and he did invent several additional features of the toilet most notably the ballcock. I think the man who invented the first flush toilet was called Harrington. BTW the word crap does not have it origins in Mr Crappers name. It's a dutch word and was used hundreds of years before Mr Crapper came on the scene.
Nimue (Nimue)
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Username: Nimue

Post Number: 4563
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Sunday, July 19, 2009 - 8:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That's disappointing--I liked the Crapper story!

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