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Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Monday, August 24, 2009 - 3:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Like most right minded people I despise littering but because of this I often get accused of being a litter bug.

Why might that be?
Dropofahat (Dropofahat)
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Posted on Monday, August 24, 2009 - 3:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do you ever pick up other people's trash?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Monday, August 24, 2009 - 3:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do you ever pick up other people's trash? yes I do but this is not relevant to the solution
Dropofahat (Dropofahat)
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Posted on Monday, August 24, 2009 - 4:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If the people accusing you knew the whole story (or understood the situation), would they retract the accusation (assuming they're otherwise reasonable)?

At the time of the accusation, are you... putting trash on the ground? ...throwing trash in a trash can? ...handling trash at all?
Natanz (Natanz)
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Posted on Monday, August 24, 2009 - 4:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

right minded=right brain, or people who "think normally"?

Is the reason they think that because of an action you performed or because of a conversation?
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Monday, August 24, 2009 - 4:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does "accused of being a litter bug" = accused of littering?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 25, 2009 - 11:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If the people accusing you knew the whole story (or understood the situation), would they retract the accusation (assuming they're otherwise reasonable)? I'll say yope to this. btw it's not they it's only one person

At the time of the accusation, are you... putting trash on the ground? yes or soon after...throwing trash in a trash can? ...handling trash at all? no to rest
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 25, 2009 - 11:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

right minded=right brain, or people who "think normally"? I just meant people who are reasonable

Is the reason they think that because of an action you performed or because of a conversation? an action
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 25, 2009 - 11:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does "accused of being a litter bug" = accused of littering? yes it does. Sorry I should have guessed that not everyone would be familiar with that expression. Where I come from it's what we call people who litter
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 25, 2009 - 12:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That's what we call it too. I just wanted to make sure that you weren't using it to mean something different, or that it didn't mean different things in different parts of the world.

Were you putting litter there to make a point? To set up an area for a photograph? For a movie?

I have some environmentally conscious friends who nevertheless insist on throwing things like apple cores and teabags into the woods when hiking or camping because those items biodegrade. But it's still litter as far as I'm concerned. Is this type of situation at all relevant?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 25, 2009 - 1:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That's what we call it too. I just wanted to make sure that you weren't using it to mean something different, or that it didn't mean different things in different parts of the world. Ah I see

Were you putting litter there to make a point? hmm putting isn't the word i'd use but i'm not making a point by doing this To set up an area for a photograph? For a movie? nice ideas but no

I have some environmentally conscious friends who nevertheless insist on throwing things like apple cores and teabags into the woods when hiking or camping because those items biodegrade. But it's still litter as far as I'm concerned. Is this type of situation at all relevant? no nothing like this and btw i agree with your friends it's ok to throw away an apple core as it'll wither biodegrade or get eaten. I'm not especially environmentally conscious I just can't stand the sight of litter
Gourami (Gourami)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 25, 2009 - 3:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the type of litter relevant? If so, wrappers? Paper? Metal? Cloth? Plastic?

Are you tossing it on the ground while walking? Driving? Are you dropping it from a height? Is it not littering because it will not stay on the ground? Or because you are not actually throwing it to the ground, but it just appears that way? Or maybe because you have no alternative but to litter?

Are you working off the idea that tossing some litter in a public place will encourage the owners of the place to clean it up? Or will keep the custodian of the area employed?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 10:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the type of litter relevant? yes If so, wrappers? yes Paper? Metal? Cloth? Plastic? yes

Are you tossing it on the ground while walking? possibly Driving? possibly but less likely Are you dropping it from a height? well dropping anything implies a height but not a great height Is it not littering because it will not stay on the ground? It actually is littering Or because you are not actually throwing it to the ground, but it just appears that way? this is OTRT Or maybe because you have no alternative but to litter? no

Are you working off the idea that tossing some litter in a public place will encourage the owners of the place to clean it up? no Or will keep the custodian of the area employed? no
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 1:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

no nothing like this and btw i agree with your friends it's ok to throw away an apple core as it'll wither biodegrade or get eaten. I'm not especially environmentally conscious I just can't stand the sight of litter I agree that the apple core will biodegrade, and it's fine to throw out if it's off trail or behind thick bushes or something. But it still looks horrid if everyone's dumping apple cores and banana peels in everyone's view. Like you said, I just can't stand the sight. Anyway, back to the puzzle.

You wouldn't say "putting." Would you say dropping? Tossing? Letting fall? Are you actually doing any of these things, or just making it appear that you are?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 2:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are you talking in the wider scheme of things - so buying things with excess packaging when there's an alternative or perhaps (whispering) using disposable nappies/diapers instead of reusable ones is a way that the earth is littered up? Are people accusing you of hypocrisy?
Natanz (Natanz)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 2:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm not completely sure about your statement:

"Like most right minded people I despise littering but because of this I often get accused of being a litter bug"

If I get it right, because you don't like littering, people call you a litter bug.

Or does "this" refer to something else than that you despise littering?

Do they call you a litter bug because you bug people who litter?
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 6:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I like your last suggestion Natanz!
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 9:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

are you telling us that you sometimes perform an action which appears, at least to one person, to be dropping litter? but actually you are not dropping litter?

are you actually leaving anything behind when you do this action? are you placing anything on the ground? are you releasing any object from your hands? do you then catch it or take it up again?

are you marking the ground in some way? leaving a message? actually picking something up? placing something for later collection?

and does this action only take place with one specific type of object? plastic? wrappers? food wrappers?

does this action take place in a specific geographical location? on the street? in a park? while you are at work? is this action part of your job?
Dropofahat (Dropofahat)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 26, 2009 - 9:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are you putting up posters? Leaving flyers on car windshields? If so, are these posters/flyers about littering?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 10:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

no nothing like this and btw i agree with your friends it's ok to throw away an apple core as it'll wither biodegrade or get eaten. I'm not especially environmentally conscious I just can't stand the sight of litter I agree that the apple core will biodegrade, and it's fine to throw out if it's off trail or behind thick bushes or something. But it still looks horrid if everyone's dumping apple cores and banana peels in everyone's view. Like you said, I just can't stand the sight. Anyway, back to the puzzle. Agreed I meant if you're deep in the countryside you can discard an apple . I certainly wouldn't drop one on a city street

You wouldn't say "putting." Would you say dropping? this Tossing? Letting fall? Are you actually doing any of these things, or just making it appear that you are? I'm actually doing it
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 10:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are you talking in the wider scheme of things - so buying things with excess packaging when there's an alternative or perhaps (whispering) using disposable nappies/diapers instead of reusable ones is a way that the earth is littered up? noAre people accusing you of hypocrisy? no I'm simply being accused of being a litterer.. and quite rightly too
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 10:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm not completely sure about your statement:

"Like most right minded people I despise littering but because of this I often get accused of being a litter bug"

If I get it right, because you don't like littering, people call you a litter bug.

Or does "this" refer to something else than that you despise littering? No to this. Just by way of clarification... I hate litterbugs and littering so i do something that eventually leads me to be rightly if not a little harshly of being a litterbug

Do they call you a litter bug because you bug people who litter? No, but that's a terrific bit of lateral thinking
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 10:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry bit of a typo. The paragraph above should have read....

No to this. Just by way of clarification... I hate litterbugs and littering so i do something that eventually leads me to be rightly, if not a little harshly accused of being a litterbug
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 10:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I like your last suggestion Natanz! As did I


are you telling us that you sometimes perform an action which appears, at least to one person, to be dropping litter? yes and maybe several times a day but actually you are not dropping litter? I am unfortunately

are you actually leaving anything behind when you do this action? yes are you placing anything on the ground? not placing are you releasing any object from your hands? ooh that's tough, I'll say noish do you then catch it or take it up again? If I spot it then yes

are you marking the ground in some way? leaving a message? actually picking something up? placing something for later collection? No to all

and does this action only take place with one specific type of object? yes plastic? yes wrappers? yes food wrappers? but no

does this action take place in a specific geographical location? it could take place pretty much anywhere but i tend to get accused by one specific person on the street? in a park? while you are at work? is this action part of your job? the action is not actually part of my job but I do it numerous times while at work
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 10:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are you putting up posters? Leaving flyers on car windshields? If so, are these posters/flyers about littering? None of these I'm afraid
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 10:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do you keep throwing things at your waste bin, and missing?
I was going to suggest cigarette butts, as smokers seem to think they're immune when dropping them, but I don't think they're made of plastic....
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 10:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do you keep throwing things at your waste bin, and missing? Well, like almost everybody I know I do this, but I'm so unerringly accurate i rarely miss my bin :o) . It's not this but another excellent lateral leap
I was going to suggest cigarette butts, as smokers seem to think they're immune when dropping them, but I don't think they're made of plastic....even though you haven't asked a question here I think it would be unfair of me not to reply. If you've read all 2048 of my posts on this forum you'll be aware that I don't smoke cigarettes....however....
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 10:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

LOL - mea culpa. No, I haven't read all of your posts!
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 10:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

LOL - mea culpa. No, I haven't read all of your posts! I'm very disappointed ;o). There's no need . All I'll say is that while I'm a smoker I have nothing to do with common cigarettes. I've far too much class for them ha ha.
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 3:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is smoking relevant in another way? Cigar wrappers?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 3:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is smoking relevant in another way? Cigar wrappers? yes to both
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 3:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Harumph! ;-)
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 6:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Which is correct: Despising littering leads you to smoke cigars? Or despising littering leads you to drop cigar wrappers on the ground?

Would your goal be met if you smoked the cigars but did not throw the wrappers on the ground?

Is there a particular place where you drop them? Such as outside of a particular building? Or near a particular event?

Is the cigar smoke relevant? Such as as an insect deterrent? A people deterrent?
Kdoc (Kdoc)
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Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 9:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

so you drop wrappers? cigar wrappers? do you do this accidentally? do they fall out of your pocket? do you place them in your pocket to prevent yourself from littering? but they fall out when you take out the next cigar? or you put them in the box of cigars and they fall out when you take the next one? and you usually don't notice them falling? but when you do you pick them up?
Ferrets101 (Ferrets101)
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Posted on Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 11:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

do people accuse you of being a litterbug because the smoke from your cigars pollutes the air? Pollutes something else?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 10:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Harumph! ;-) LOL I did try and give you a clue . BTW I love the word Harumph. Do you remember Mel Brooks in 'Blazing Saddles' saying "Hey I didn't get a Harumph from that guy"
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 10:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel

Which is correct: Despising littering leads you to smoke cigars? Or despising littering leads you to drop cigar wrappers on the ground? the latter

Would your goal be met if you smoked the cigars but did not throw the wrappers on the ground? yes but I don't throw them

Is there a particular place where you drop them? no Such as outside of a particular building? Or near a particular event?

Is the cigar smoke relevant? Such as as an insect deterrent? A people deterrent? No. Smoke is not relevant

Ferrets

so you drop wrappers? yes cigar wrappers? yes do you do this accidentally? yes do they fall out of your pocket? yes do you place them in your pocket to prevent yourself from littering? indeed i do but they fall out when you take out the next cigar? or anything from my pocket in fact or you put them in the box of cigars and they fall out when you take the next one? Nice thought and maybe that's what i should do and you usually don't notice them falling? yes this is the key to the puzzle but when you do you pick them up? yes and so does my long suffering wife

do people accuse you of being a litterbug because the smoke from your cigars pollutes the air? Pollutes something else? no to these

*************SPOILER****************

I'm very much against littering so when I unwrap a box of cigars and there is no bin nearby I always stuff the plastic wrapping into my trouser pocket. I do the same with the plastic wrapping on each individual cigar. The downside of this is that i have loads of little bits of plastic wrapping in my pockets so whenever i take out a set of keys, a wallet or anything else some plastic invariably falls to the floor without my noticing it. My long suffering wife tells me she's sick of picking up cigar wrappers from around the house.

So even though I hate littering I am a bit of a litterbug.

Nice solve Ferrets
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 11:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

My husband has money (notes) fall out of his pocket in the same way - I wonder how many times he's not noticed?? Harumph to him!
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 12:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ha ha . I don't think dropping money would be technically littering . Notes may not biodegrade but i'm pretty sure that they'd be picked up pretty quickly.
Lynne (Lynne)
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Posted on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 12:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Um - I'm not concerned with the littering aspect, just the careless attitude that could (and probably has) cost us money! :-P
Ferrets101 (Ferrets101)
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Posted on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 10:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wait.... How did I solve it?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 11:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well your post answered 95% of the puzzle and the next post would have spoiled anyway so I thought I give credit where it's due. look at your last post again and ask yourself how hard would it have been for someone to close it out. I thought you'd done more than enough.
Ferrets101 (Ferrets101)
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Posted on Friday, August 28, 2009 - 11:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Um...... That was kdoc. Or am I missing something? Because my question was about the smoke and you said smoke had nothing to do with it.
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, September 03, 2009 - 11:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Apologies to Kdoc. It was indeed your solve.

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