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Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Post Number: 799
Registered: 8-2005
Posted on Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 9:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sadly the doctor pronounced Jane dead. If it had been raining three months earlier she might possibly have survived.
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Posted on Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 9:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jane - H?A?F?
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Post Number: 800
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Posted on Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 9:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jane - H?A?F? Yes to all
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 1066
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Posted on Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 10:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she die from a disease? Burning? Poisoning? Injury? Drowning?

Any criminal activity involved?
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Post Number: 801
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Posted on Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 10:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she die from a disease? Burning? Poisoning? Injury? This one Drowning?

Any criminal activity involved? Yesish
Alhucema (Alhucema)
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Post Number: 1067
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Posted on Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 10:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she suffer the injury three months earlier?
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Post Number: 802
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Posted on Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 11:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she suffer the injury three months earlier? No
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Post Number: 531
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Posted on Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 1:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did it rain three months earlier? Did it rain when Jane died? In the same place?
Did Jane die just now? or maybe she died three months before but was only now found?
Was Jane murdered?
Is Jane a criminal?
Relevant that Jane is female? Was she pregnant when she died?
Did she injure herself? Was it an accident? a car accident? if so: was it her fault?
Would the rain three months before have been required in the place where she was then? in the place where she got injured? in the place where she died? in some other place?
Would the rain have helped her to escape? would she then have been in a different place than the one where she was when she got injured?
and just to be sure: Is Jane actually dead? or was she just declared dead?
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Post Number: 803
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Posted on Thursday, September 17, 2009 - 2:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did it rain three months earlier? No Did it rain when Jane died? Irrel In the same place? Irrel
Did Jane die just now? Yes or maybe she died three months before but was only now found? Not this
Was Jane murdered? No
Is Jane a criminal? No
Relevant that Jane is female? Not really but it fits with the story Was she pregnant when she died? No
Did she injure herself? Yes Was it an accident? Yes a car accident? No if so: was it her fault? It was an accident
Would the rain three months before have been required in the place where she was then? No in the place where she got injured? in the place where she died? No in some other place? Yes
Would the rain have helped her to escape? No and possible FA would she then have been in a different place than the one where she was when she got injured? No
and just to be sure: Is Jane actually dead? Yes or was she just declared dead?
Noel (Noel)
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Post Number: 514
Registered: 7-2009
Posted on Friday, September 18, 2009 - 9:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she slip on a wet spot?

Was three months earlier when she bought something? Installed something? When someone else bought something? Installed something?

If it had been raining three months earlier, would she (or someone else) have been able to tell that an area or item was slippery? Or that an item had a tendency to slip? And therefore needed more traction?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, September 21, 2009 - 1:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would rain have prevented the accident? Changed a decision? Lessened the impact of an injury; or of other damage?

Relevant - Location? Time period? Other people besides Jane?
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Post Number: 804
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Posted on Monday, September 21, 2009 - 8:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel

Did she slip on a wet spot? No

Was three months earlier when she bought something? No Installed something? No When someone else bought something? NoInstalled something? No

If it had been raining three months earlier, would she (or someone else) have been able to tell that an area or item was slippery? No Or that an item had a tendency to slip? No And therefore needed more traction? No

Jenburdoo

Would rain have prevented the accident? no Changed a decision? no Lessened the impact of an injury; or of other damage? No

Relevant - Location? Modern day Time period? not really Other people besides Jane? Yes
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 2114
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Posted on Monday, September 21, 2009 - 3:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So is the place where if had of been raining 3 months prior to the accident in the same country as where the accident took place?

Are any of the following relevant? Global warming? climate change in general? weather forecasting? drought? if it had snowed 3 months earlier would Jane still be alive?

Any relevant occupations? hobbies?
Dropofahat (Dropofahat)
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Post Number: 428
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Posted on Monday, September 21, 2009 - 5:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If it had rained three months earlier, would it have... allowed something to grow in that time? ...filled up something with water, which would (somehow) have saved her later? ...prevented someone from doing something that would later cause her injuries?

If the last is a yes - would that person not have done (whatever it is) because they wouldn't have gone to (or been at) a particular location in the rain?
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Post Number: 807
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Posted on Tuesday, September 22, 2009 - 8:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Peter

So is the place where if had of been raining 3 months prior to the accident in the same country as where the accident took place? Yes

Are any of the following relevant? Global warming? climate change in general? weather forecasting? drought? None of these are relevant if it had snowed 3 months earlier would Jane still be alive? Possibly

Any relevant occupations? No hobbies? No

Dropofahat

If it had rained three months earlier, would it have... allowed something to grow in that time? No ...filled up something with water, which would (somehow) have saved her later? No...prevented someone from doing something that would later cause her injuries? No but ORT

If the last is a yes - would that person not have done (whatever it is) because they wouldn't have gone to (or been at) a particular location in the rain? Again no but ORT
Dropofahat (Dropofahat)
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Post Number: 434
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Posted on Tuesday, September 22, 2009 - 2:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the rain three months earlier cause her to do something that would set up a situation that would eventually lead to her injuries?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Post Number: 2115
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Posted on Tuesday, September 22, 2009 - 3:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Any relevant form of transport?
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Post Number: 808
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Posted on Tuesday, September 22, 2009 - 4:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the rain three months earlier cause her to do something that would set up a situation that would eventually lead to her injuries? No dont forget it was not raining three months ago

Any relevant form of transport? Yes
Dropofahat (Dropofahat)
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Post Number: 435
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Posted on Tuesday, September 22, 2009 - 4:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If it had rained three months earlier, would it have caused her to do something that would somehow prevent her later injuries?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - 12:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

How many other people involved - one? Two? More? Are they friends? Acquaintances? Relatives? Business associates? Fellow members of an organization? Enemies?

Forms of transport that are relevant:

Land? Air? Sea? Undersea? Space? Military? Civilian? Government?

Was the transport involved in the accident? Would rain have affected the transport somehow?
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Post Number: 809
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Posted on Friday, September 25, 2009 - 9:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If it had rained three months earlier, would it have caused her to do something that would somehow prevent her later injuries? No

How many other people involved - one? directly this but other people are indirecly involvedTwo? More? Are they friends? Acquaintances? Relatives? This for the one directly involved Business associates? Fellow members of an organization? Enemies?

Forms of transport that are relevant:

Land? This Air? Sea? Undersea? Space? Military? Civilian? This Government?

Was the transport involved in the accident? NoWould rain have affected the transport somehow? Yes
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Friday, September 25, 2009 - 7:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Car? Train? Bus? Bicycle? Pedestrian?
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Post Number: 810
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Posted on Monday, September 28, 2009 - 8:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Car? This One Train? Bus? Bicycle? Pedestrian?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Monday, September 28, 2009 - 1:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So is the car relevant because if it had of rained 3 months earlier she would have been in her car when the accident happened and therefore it would not have happened at all?

Was she walking when the accident occured?
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Post Number: 811
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Posted on Tuesday, September 29, 2009 - 8:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So is the car relevant because if it had of rained 3 months earlier she would have been in her car when the accident happened and therefore it would not have happened at all? No but ORT

Was she walking when the accident occured? Irrel
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 29, 2009 - 10:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the accident cause wounds to a particular part of her body? head? torso/chest? internal injuries? Was she involved in some physical collision? Did she fall? get hit by something? get burned? drowned? poisoned?

A car is relevant but it was not a car accident correct? Is the car Jane's? IS the car in good working order? Does it belong to someone she knows? When it becomes relevant in the puzzle is it moving? stationary?
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Post Number: 812
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Posted on Tuesday, September 29, 2009 - 10:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the accident cause wounds to a particular part of her body? head? This torso/chest? internal injuries? Was she involved in some physical collision? Did she fall? This get hit by something? get burned? drowned? And a bit of this poisoned?

A car is relevant but it was not a car accident correct? Correct Is the car Jane's? No IS the car in good working order? NO Does it belong to someone she knows? Yes When it becomes relevant in the puzzle is it moving? Yes stationary?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 29, 2009 - 11:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So jane falls into water, suffers a head wound and drowns? Would the head wound itself have been fatal had she not fallen into water? Did she try and jump out of the way of a car? If so was it being driven by someone ? or did it roll down a hill because it was left with the handbrake off? Are the cars brakes/handbrake faulty? it's steering? indicators? part of the engine?

Just a thought but is the failure of any plantlife to grow relevant?
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Post Number: 813
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Posted on Tuesday, September 29, 2009 - 11:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So jane falls into water, suffers a head wound and drowns? The actual sequence is trip, head wound,then fall into water Would the head wound itself have been fatal had she not fallen into water? maybe Did she try and jump out of the way of a car? No If so was it being driven by someone ? or did it roll down a hill because it was left with the handbrake off? Are the cars brakes/handbrake faulty? it's steering? indicators? part of the engine? So no to all this

Just a thought but is the failure of any plantlife to grow relevant? No
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 29, 2009 - 12:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the car a normal privately owned vehicle? Or is it something like a police car? A taxi? a car used by a business?
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 29, 2009 - 1:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the car a normal privately owned vehicle? This one Or is it something like a police car? A taxi? a car used by a business?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 30, 2009 - 10:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the car actually present at the scene of the accident ?
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 30, 2009 - 10:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the car actually present at the scene of the accident ? NO
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 30, 2009 - 12:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would rain on the car have prevented the accident? Or rain on the person driving the car? Would rain at any later date have helped? Are the windshield wipers defective? Was dust/dirt/grime on the car a factor?
would the accident have been prevented because:
the woman would not have been where she was?
she would not have been doing what she did?
something would have been there/not there/in a different place to prevent/not cause the accident?
Did the accident happen on a bridge? Pier?
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 30, 2009 - 2:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would rain on the car have prevented the accident? No Or rain on the person driving the car? No Would rain at any later date have helped? No Are the windshield wipers defective? NO Was dust/dirt/grime on the car a factor? No would the accident have been prevented because:
the woman would not have been where she was? No
she would not have been doing what she did? Not this
something would have been there/not there/in a different place to prevent/not cause the accident? Not quite but ORT
Did the accident happen on a bridge? Pier? Not really that relevant
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 30, 2009 - 2:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the car in question belong to Jane? Has the car's defect arisen due to the lack of rain 3 months ago? Does the car's defect directly result in Jane's accident i.e. it places her at the scene at the relevant time? Do we need to establish the exact nature of the car's defect? Is it a defect one would notice more in wet weather? Is the car a convertible? does it have a sunroof?
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 30, 2009 - 3:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the car in question belong to Jane? No Has the car's defect arisen due to the lack of rain 3 months ago? No Does the car's defect directly result in Jane's accident i.e. it places her at the scene at the relevant time? No Do we need to establish the exact nature of the car's defect? It would help Is it a defect one would notice more in wet weather? No Is the car a convertible? No does it have a sunroof? Irrel
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, October 01, 2009 - 10:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This is a toughie.

With regard to the defect in the car.. Would it prevent the car from starting? make it dangerous? does it affect braking? electrics? Ignition? exhaust? fuel feed systems? is it leaking any fluid? Do all the lights and indicators work? Do all the doors open and close normally? Would the defect be found only in a car with a modern extras? air con? sat nav? cruise control?

Has it got a flat tyre?

Is the owner of the car a family member? friend? work colleague? has jane ever been in the car in question? is this relevant? Can Jane drive? relevant?

Sorry if i've repeated any q's already asked.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Thursday, October 01, 2009 - 10:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the relative HAM/HAF? A parent? Sibling? Child? Sibling of parent? Cousin? More distant? Blood relative? Is the relative involved in criminal activity? In the death? Present at the scene of death? Does the relative own or use the car? Would rain on the relative have prevented the death?
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Posted on Thursday, October 01, 2009 - 10:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

With regard to the defect in the car.. Would it prevent the car from starting? No make it dangerous? Some might think so! does it affect braking? No electrics? Yesish Ignition? No exhaust? No fuel feed systems? No is it leaking any fluid? Do all the lights and indicators work? Yes-ish Do all the doors open and close normally? Yes Would the defect be found only in a car with a modern extras? No air con? sat nav? cruise control? So No

Has it got a flat tyre? No

Is the owner of the car a family member?Yesfriend? work colleague? has jane ever been in the car in question? Yes is this relevant? Not really Can Jane drive?No relevant? Yes
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, October 01, 2009 - 11:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Has Jane never learned to drive? or is she banned from driving? Does Jane have any physical disability?

think Galfisk posted as you were answering my last set
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Posted on Thursday, October 01, 2009 - 1:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the relative HAM/HAF? HAM A parent? NoSibling? No Child? No Sibling of parent? No Cousin? No More distant? No Blood relative? No Is the relative involved in criminal activity? No really criminal In the death? Not the death but in the overall situation Present at the scene of death? Yes Does the relative own or use the car? Yes to both Would rain on the relative have prevented the death?indirectly
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Posted on Thursday, October 01, 2009 - 1:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Has Jane never learned to drive? No she is learning or is she banned from driving? No Does Jane have any physical disability? No
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Thursday, October 01, 2009 - 1:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the relative her husband? Is their relation important?
Does the electrical-ish failure make the car so something it should not? Not do something it should? Do something differently? Make the driver do something differently?
Is the car leaking fluid or not?
Was Jane driven to the place of death? By the relative? In the car?
Rain on the relative 3 months ago would have meant Jane wouldn't have hit her head and died today, correct? Or is there more to the rain than this? Like rain on other things/locations/people?
Are there other relevent people that Jane and...let's call him Frank?
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Posted on Thursday, October 01, 2009 - 2:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the relative her husband? Yes Is their relation important? Yesish
Does the electrical-ish failure make the car so something it should not? No Not do something it should? No Do something differently? No Make the driver do something differently? Yesish
Is the car leaking fluid or not? No it is not, sorry I missed that one.
Was Jane driven to the place of death? Yes By the relative? NO In the car? No
Rain on the relative 3 months ago would have meant Jane wouldn't have hit her head and died today, correct? She would probably have still hit her head, but it is possible she might not have died
Are there other relevent people that Jane and...let's call him Frank? Please rephrase
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 37
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Posted on Friday, October 02, 2009 - 7:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Can we call her husband Frank? Are there other relevant people? Is it relevant that Jane was driven to her location? In another car? By another driver? Was that car and/or driver present when she died?

Would the rain have meant her husband would have done something different, been somewhere else, or had with him something/left behind something which changed the outcome of the accident?

Is it rain on the husband that is important? Or rain in the location her husband was at the time? Was she with him at that time 3 months ago?
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Post Number: 825
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Posted on Saturday, October 03, 2009 - 11:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Can we call her husband Frank? Yes why not Are there other relevant people? Yes Is it relevant that Jane was driven to her location? YesIn another car? Yes By another driver? Yes Was that car and/or driver present when she died? No

Would the rain have meant her husband would have done something different, Possibly this oneor had with him something/left behind something which changed the outcome of the accident? The husbands actions affected the outcome

Is it rain on the husband that is important? Yes in the location her husband was at the time? Was she with him at that time 3 months ago? No
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 39
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Posted on Saturday, October 03, 2009 - 3:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the third person HAM/HAF? Relevant? Is it a relative? Are romantic complications relevant? Blackmail? Does anyone want Jane dead?
Did Frank's actions affect what happened during the accident? Or how Jane was treated/rescued afterwards? Did they delay treatment? Is the occupation of any of the involved parties relevant?
Do we need to find out about more people/things than Jane, Frank, Frank's car and the person who drove Jane?
Is the failure in the car mechanical? Is it an indicator light that is no when it should be off? Off when it should be on? A gauge that indicates higher than it should? Lower? zero when it shouldn't? Is the problem obvious to anyone using the car?
Would rain on Frank ruin something of his? Make him bring something he otherwise wouldn't? Leave something he otherwise would bring? Go somewhere? Not go somewhere? Go somewhere different than he did? Would a light rain suffice, or would he have to be soaked? Or would he have staid out of the rain, if it had happened?
Any medical conditions relevant? Is the weather at Jane's time of death relevant?
Tommyp (Tommyp)
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Posted on Saturday, October 03, 2009 - 5:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the amount of months important? Or could it just as well have been two months, but you had to chose a number?
Life insurance involved? Was someone hoping for Jane to have an accident? Was it (kind of) "set up"?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Monday, October 05, 2009 - 10:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

clarification+correction

"Did they delay treatment?" - "they" = Frank's actions
"no when it should be off" should be "on when it should be off"
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 06, 2009 - 8:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the third person HAM/HAF? bit of an FA the third person is more of an organisation than an individual and not involved in the accident Relevant? Is it a relative? Are romantic complications relevant? No Blackmail? No Does anyone want Jane dead? No
Did Frank's actions affect what happened during the accident? No Or how Jane was treated/rescued afterwards? This one Did they delay treatment? Yes Is the occupation of any of the involved parties relevant? Yesish
Do we need to find out about more people/things than Jane, Frank, Frank's car and the person who drove Jane? Well you need to find the answer so a little more is needed
Is the failure in the car mechanical? Yes Is it an indicator light that is no when it should be off? Off when it should be on? A gauge that indicates higher than it should? Lower? zero when it shouldn't? This one Is the problem obvious to anyone using the car? Yes
Would rain on Frank ruin something of his? No Make him bring something he otherwise wouldn't? No Leave something he otherwise would bring? No Go somewhere? No Not go somewhere? No Go somewhere different than he did? No Would a light rain suffice, or would he have to be soaked? FA he was not soaked Or would he have staid out of the rain, if it had happened? No
Any medical conditions relevant? No Is the weather at Jane's time of death relevant? No

Is the amount of months important? Yesish Or could it just as well have been two months, Two months would work but you had to chose a number?
Life insurance involved? No Was someone hoping for Jane to have an accident? No Was it (kind of) "set up"? No
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 06, 2009 - 11:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Jane take a cab? Or bus? Was Jane going there to meet Frank? Did he drive there in his car?
Was it the fuel indicator that was defective? Coolant temperature? Speedometer? Thermometer (measuring outside air temperature)? Did the car failure lead to Jane not getting to the hospital quickly enough? Or help not arriving soon enough?
Would the failure have been fixed, if it had rained 3 months ago?
Is Frank's occupation important? Jane's?
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 06, 2009 - 3:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Jane take a cab? No Or bus? No Was Jane going there to meet Frank? No Did he drive there in his car? No
Was it the fuel indicator that was defective? No Coolant temperature? No Speedometer? Yes Thermometer (measuring outside air temperature)? No Did the car failure lead to Jane not getting to the hospital quickly enough? Yes Or help not arriving soon enough? This too
Would the failure have been fixed, if it had rained 3 months ago? No
Is Frank's occupation important? NoJane's? No
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 07, 2009 - 11:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Frank take Jane out of the water after she had fallen into? (relevant what kind of water? lake? river? pond? sea? artificial body of water?)
And then drive her to the hospital? but drove to slow because the speedometer did not work?
Did Frank arrive at the scene of the accident just by chance? Did he come to pick up Jane anyway?
Should we find out why Jane was at this place? (vacation? business? university? medical treatment?)
Did Jane travel to this place 3 months ago?
Is the reason why she did not travel with Frank related to the absence of rain? (or the reason why she traveled there at all?)
Did Frank not have time to travel with Jane because of the sunny weather? is Frank's profession relevant?
Did Jane run away from Frank?
or, maybe: was Jane in prison during these 3 months?
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 07, 2009 - 1:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Frank take Jane out of the water after she had fallen into? Yes (relevant what kind of water? lake? {Yes} river? pond? sea? artificial body of water?)
And then drive her to the hospital? NO but drove to slow because the speedometer did not work? No
Did Frank arrive at the scene of the accident just by chance? No you seem to have an FA about Frank he did travel there with jane Did he come to pick up Jane anyway?
Should we find out why Jane was at this place? (vacation? This one business? university? medical treatment?)
Did Jane travel to this place 3 months ago? No
Is the reason why she did not travel with Frank related to the absence of rain? See the FA above (or the reason why she traveled there at all?)
Did Frank not have time to travel with Jane because of the sunny weather? is Frank's profession relevant? No
Did Jane run away from Frank? No
or, maybe: was Jane in prison during these 3 months? No
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 07, 2009 - 7:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the car back home, because it's broken? (You said earlier it was not present at the scene of the accident). Would it have been there, had it rained 3 months ago? Did they both travel there by some kind of public transport? Relevant how they got there?
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Posted on Friday, October 09, 2009 - 3:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the car back home, Yes because it's broken? No(You said earlier it was not present at the scene of the accident). Would it have been there, had it rained 3 months ago? Possibly Did they both travel there by some kind of public transport? No Relevant how they got there? Yes-ish
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Monday, October 12, 2009 - 10:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would Jane have made it, had the car been there? Relevant? Did they get there by some kind of transport that was unavailable/too slow/unsuitable for getting her to the hospital and/or getting help quickly enough? Are they in a remote location? Relevant? Cell phones or other communication eqipment relevant?
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - 8:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would Jane have made it, had the car been there? There was a better chance Relevant? Yes Did they get there by some kind of transport that was unavailable This one/too slow/unsuitable for getting her to the hospital and/or getting help quickly enough? Are they in a remote location? YesRelevant? Yes Cell phones or other communication eqipment relevant? Yesish
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Sunday, October 18, 2009 - 1:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Martin

This is a fascinating puzzle but I'm a bit stuck any chance of a recap of what we've learned so far.
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Posted on Monday, October 19, 2009 - 9:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This is a fascinating puzzle but I'm a bit stuck any chance of a recap of what we've learned so far. No problem I will have a look through what we know so far and post a recap a little later
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Posted on Monday, October 19, 2009 - 9:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Recap:- Frank and Jane were in a remote location when Jane fell and had an accident. There was no transport availible to get her, quickly, to a hospital so sadly she died due to her injuries.A car is involved which has a defective speedometer. If it had been raining 3 months previous there is a good chance that this car would have been with them.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Monday, October 19, 2009 - 4:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would the car still have had a defective speedometer? Would the rain have made Frank use the car? Instead of walking?
Kalira (Kalira)
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Posted on Monday, October 19, 2009 - 10:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would the rain have made them use this specific car? Did some other vehicle they owned not have a roof? or have some other feature/flaw that would make it inconvenient? inadvisable? impossible? to drive it in the rain?

Had the car been driven 3 months ago, would they have realized the speedometer was defective? Did someone get a speeding ticket? that told how fast they were going? but that speed was not what it said on the speedometer?

At the time of the accident, did the speedometer show them going as fast as the car could go? but they were actually going slower than that?
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 20, 2009 - 8:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would the car still have had a defective speedometer? Yes Would the rain have made Frank use the car? Instead of walking? Frank did use the car, and would have rain or not

Would the rain have made them use this specific car? No Did some other vehicle they owned not have a roof? They did not own another vehichle or have some other feature/flaw that would make it inconvenient? inadvisable? impossible? to drive it in the rain? So no to these

Had the car been driven 3 months ago, would they have realized the speedometer was defective? The car was driven 3 months ago Did someone get a speeding ticket? YES that told how fast they were going? Yes but that speed was not what it said on the speedometer? Yes

At the time of the accident, did the speedometer show them going as fast as the car could go? No but they were actually going slower than that? No
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 20, 2009 - 10:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it just that had it been raining 3 months ago Frank would have been driving less quickly and not gotten a ticket? Was Frank subsequently disqualified from Driving and therefore was unable to drive her to hospital?
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 20, 2009 - 10:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it just that had it been raining 3 months ago Frank would have been driving less quickly and not gotten a ticket? Correct however there is a little more to discover. The make of car is relevant and slightly unusual. Was Frank subsequently disqualified from Driving and therefore was unable to drive her to hospital? Yes its really close to being solved now.
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 20, 2009 - 11:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Can't get Robin Reliant out of my head so I'll just ask is the car a Robin Reliant? If not is it modified in any way? Are Frank & Jane both able bodied?
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 20, 2009 - 1:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Can't get Robin Reliant out of my head so I'll just ask is the car a Robin Reliant? No it is an old and quirky car though If not is it modified in any way? No Are Frank & Jane both able bodied? Yes
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 20, 2009 - 3:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do i need to find out the type of car to solve this? If so here are some random guesses Beetle? Mini? Morris Minor? Bubble Car? Would it surprise people that this car was caught speeding ?
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 20, 2009 - 3:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do i need to find out the type of car to solve this? If so here are some random guesses Beetle? Mini? Morris Minor? Bubble Car? Would it surprise people that this car was caught speeding ? It is only one aspect of the cars design that is relevant to rain that needs to be discovered
Probably_monty_hall (Probably_monty_hall)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 20, 2009 - 9:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A question above asking if the windshield wipers were defective got an all-caps "NO". Is this relevant? Some quirky windshield wiper design? Do the wipers of this car move at a speed relative to the car's speed?
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 21, 2009 - 8:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A question above asking if the windshield wipers were defective got an all-caps "NO". Is this relevant? YES Some quirky windshield wiper design? Yes Do the wipers of this car move at a speed relative to the car's speed? YES would anyone like to have a go at putting it all together}
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 21, 2009 - 10:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well I'll try

Frank has an old quirky car, a feature of which is that the speed of the windscreen wipers is porportionate to the speed the car is travelling at. Unfortunately Franks speedometer is not working so he has no way of establishing what speed he is travelling at unless it's raining when he can use the wiper speed to estimate how fast he is travelling. The lack of a speedo and rain results in Frank getting a speeding ticket and being disqualified from driving. Some months later Frank's wife Jane falls, hits her head and lands in water. She is alive following the accident but their location is rather remote and as Frank does not have his car there is a delay in getting Jane to hospital. Unfortunately Jane dies before she can receive medical attention.

So had it been raining on the day Frank got his ticket he would have known how fast he was travelling, would not have gotten a speeding ticket, would not have had his licence revoked, would have had his car with him when Jane had her accident and would have got Jane to hospital in time to save her.

As the puzzle statement says had it been raining 3 months earlier Jane might have survived.

How's that?
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 21, 2009 - 11:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well I'll try

Frank has an old quirky car, a feature of which is that the speed of the windscreen wipers is porportionate to the speed the car is travelling at. Unfortunately Franks speedometer is not working so he has no way of establishing what speed he is travelling at unless it's raining when he can use the wiper speed to estimate how fast he is travelling. The lack of a speedo and rain results in Frank getting a speeding ticket and being disqualified from driving. Some months later Frank's wife Jane falls, hits her head and lands in water. She is alive following the accident but their location is rather remote and as Frank does not have his car there is a delay in getting Jane to hospital. Unfortunately Jane dies before she can receive medical attention.

So had it been raining on the day Frank got his ticket he would have known how fast he was travelling, would not have gotten a speeding ticket, would not have had his licence revoked, would have had his car with him when Jane had her accident and would have got Jane to hospital in time to save her.

As the puzzle statement says had it been raining 3 months earlier Jane might have survived.

How's that? Very good now for bonus points whats with the remote location aspect?
Probably_monty_hall (Probably_monty_hall)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 21, 2009 - 3:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok, so we know that Jane and Frank were driven to the remote location in a car by some 3rd person and that other people were present. Correct?

Was the car that transported them a form of public or private transit? Taxi? Tour? Friend's car? Is this line of questioning useful? Would it be appropriate to say that Jane and Frank were "dropped off" at the remote location?

Would it be helpful to learn about Jane's relationship (however distal) to the other people?

As far as the remote location, we know that there was at least 1 rock involved and a lake. Was the rock next to the lake? In the lake? Was the remote location in the mountains?
Probably_monty_hall (Probably_monty_hall)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 21, 2009 - 3:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Whoops! Looking at the thread again, the rock might be an FA. Did Jane suffer her head wound on a rock? On the ground? On wood? Metal? Some naturally-occuring object? Some man-made object?
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Posted on Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 8:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I think its all pretty much there now so I will post a *************SPOILER**************
Frank and Jane had been married for almost a year and Frank had planned a surprise weekend away in the mountains. He picked a secluded place miles from the nearest town, no disturbances and more crucially no mobile phone reception. However 3 months before this Frank was out in his car, a citroen 2Cv, with a broken speedometer. Frank had had the car for a while and as the windscreen wipers are driven by the same cable as the speedo he became good at judging the speed of the car from the speed of the wipers.However as it was not raining he did not realise he was speeding and got a ticket. It was not however his first ticket and he recieved a six month driving ban.
Not wanting to cancel his romantic weekend he asked his friend to drop them off at the cabin with instructions to pick them up in 3 days time. Sometime on the first day whilst on a walk around the lake Jane slipped and banged her head falling into the water. Frank pulled her out but with no phone or transport he could not either get her to, or summon medical help.All frank could do was begin the long walk to the nearest town and hope he would make it in time. Sadly he did not.
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 10:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Excellent puzzle Martin. Was it FYOI?
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Posted on Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 10:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks. Yeah from FMOI I was driving in the rain with intermittent wipers on and speed controlled wipers seemed like a good idea, I then found out that the 2Cv windscreen wipers were powered by a mechanical drive shared with the speedo,and the rest kind of grew from there.
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 1:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have 8 intermittent speed settings on my windscreen wipers. Now what sort of person would think we need that many.
Martinfg (Martinfg)
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Posted on Thursday, October 22, 2009 - 2:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Knowing the weather in Irealand there is probably a rain condition for each of them lol
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Friday, October 23, 2009 - 12:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Actually you're right. In fact it's absolutely peeing down as I type this.

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