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Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 - 9:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I used to have a scrund that only an atheist, agnostic, or a very religious person could have. What is it?
Pikachizzle (Pikachizzle)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 - 10:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the scrund about:

God?
Religious customs?
Bible verses?
Religious people?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 - 10:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Pikachizzle (Pikachizzle)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 - 10:16 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is the scrund about:

God? no
Religious customs? no
Bible verses? no
Religious people? yes
Quovynyte (Quovynyte)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 - 10:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cheistianity relevant?
Islam? Judaism? Hinduism? Sikhism? Jainism? Buddhism? Old religions?

Is it related to:
Holy writings?
Prayers/Creeds?
Places of worship?
Symbols?
Number of gods?
Sacrifices?
Culture?
Clothes?
A specific place relevant?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Quovynyte (Quovynyte)
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Posted on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 - 10:43 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Cheistianity relevant?
Islam? Judaism? Hinduism? Sikhism? Jainism? Buddhism? Old religions? No religion is more relevant than others

Is it related to:
Holy writings? no
Prayers/Creeds?no
Places of worship? no
Symbols? no
Number of gods? no
Sacrifices? no
Culture? noish
Clothes? no
A specific place relevant? no
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 25, 2009 - 3:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hm. Does it have to do with something that atheists and highly religious folks have in common? Could it apply to a religious person who is not a member of an established religion, for example a cultist?

Are any general categories of religions relevant (sky-god, animist, monotheist, etc.)? General categories of atheists/agnostics (hard, soft, etc)?

Anything to do with the discredited trope that atheism is a religion all its own and shares many of religion's trappings and failings? Anything to do with "New Atheism" as discussed by Dawkins et al?

Would members of extinct religions have had it? Would members of tiny yet fundamentalist sects have it? Tiny tribes in the jungles of New Guinea and South America?

Could it apply to people who follow something that is not, technically, a religion, yet involves irrational faith to a degree shared by religion (such as Communism, Nazism, or a belief in flying saucers)?

Could it apply to someone who has been atheist all their life, or only to one who was raised in a religion and lost faith later on?
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 25, 2009 - 10:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it something about what 'average' religious people believe?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Thursday, November 26, 2009 - 9:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 25, 2009 - 3:45 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Hm. Does it have to do with something that atheists and highly religious folks have in common? no Could it apply to a religious person who is not a member of an established religion, for example a cultist?I had this beliefs about new religions, too, but I'm not sure if it's a scrund. N.B. What's a cult? A cult is the other guy's religion.}

Are any general categories of religions relevant (sky-god, animist, monotheist, etc.)? no General categories of atheists/agnostics (hard, soft, etc)? I'm not sure what 'hard' & 'soft' mean in this context. Do you mean the degree of confidence that the person has in his beliefs? If so, it's irrel.

Anything to do with the discredited trope that atheism is a religion all its own and shares many of religion's trappings and failings? no Anything to do with "New Atheism" as discussed by Dawkins et al? No. I had this scrund before that.

Would members of extinct religions have had it? I don't knowWould members of tiny yet fundamentalist sects have it? possiblyTiny tribes in the jungles of New Guinea and South America? possibly

Could it apply to people who follow something that is not, technically, a religion, yet involves irrational faith to a degree shared by religion (such as Communism, Nazism, or a belief in flying saucers)? Some people may the same sort of scrund about these people as I had about religious believers.

Could it apply to someone who has been atheist all their life yes, or only to one who was raised in a religion and lost faith later on no, although such people might have this scrund, too,?
Bentarm (Bentarm)
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Posted on Wednesday, November 25, 2009 - 10:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is it something about what 'average' religious people believe? yope
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Friday, November 27, 2009 - 3:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Some people may the same sort of scrund about these people as I had about religious believers.

So the scrund is about people with religious faith? Does that mean the very religious people have the scrund about themselves? or only about people who are less religious than they are? or would strong believers have it about atheists and agnostics and vice versa?
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Friday, November 27, 2009 - 9:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the scrund about what every religiuos person would believe? think? do? About some social relations of religious people?

Same for non-religious people?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Saturday, November 28, 2009 - 2:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Could a very religious person have this scrund about less religious people of the same religion? If an atheist had this scrund, would it be about all religious people? Or would the very religious people be excluded?
Does the scrund involve looking down on, or up to, the targets of the scrund?
Open/closedmindedness relevant?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Saturday, November 28, 2009 - 7:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Friday, November 27, 2009 - 3:15 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Some people may the same sort of scrund about these people as I had about religious believers.

So the scrund is about people with religious faith? yesDoes that mean the very religious people have the scrund about themselves? no or only about people who are less religious than they are? yes, if they have it at all. I didn't say that all atheists, agnostics, & very religious people have this scrund; I said that ONLY people in these groups could have this scrund. or would strong believers have it about atheists and agnostics possiblyand vice versait wouldn't be a scrund about strong believers?
Markobr (Markobr)
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Is the scrund about what every religiuos person would believe? no think? nodo? yopeAbout some social relations of religious people?noish

Same for non-religious people? no
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Could a very religious person have this scrund about less religious people of the same religion? yes If an atheist had this scrund, would it be about all religious people?see next answer Or would the very religious people be excluded? it wouldn't be a scrund about them
Does the scrund involve looking down on, or up to, the targets of the scrund? neither
Open/closedmindedness relevant? no
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Saturday, November 28, 2009 - 8:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the scrund that all religious people have something in common? While, in fact, this only holds for some of them? And these tend to be very pious?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Saturday, November 28, 2009 - 8:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Markobr (Markobr)
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Is the scrund that all religious people have something in common? yes While, in fact, this only holds for some of them? yesAnd these tend to be very pious? yes
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Saturday, November 28, 2009 - 8:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the scrund about the everyday life of religious people? About decisions they make? About their ethics?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Saturday, November 28, 2009 - 10:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Markobr (Markobr)
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Is the scrund about the everyday life of religious people? yesish About decisions they make? yesish About their ethics? yope
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Sunday, November 29, 2009 - 1:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Which of the following aspects of life are relevant:

Working for a living?
Voluntary work?
Hobbies?
Investment of money?
Spending of money?
Eating and drinking?
Romantic/sexual relationships and marriage?
Education?
Family relations and children?
Political activities?
Sleeping?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Sunday, November 29, 2009 - 5:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Markobr (Markobr)
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Which of the following aspects of life are relevant:

Working for a living?
Voluntary work?
Hobbies?
Investment of money?
Spending of money?
Eating and drinking?
Romantic/sexual relationships and marriage?
Education?
Family relations and children?
Political activities?
Sleeping?Sleeping is irrel, & all the others might be relevant
Markobr (Markobr)
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Is the scrund about the way people make decisions? About their motives for doing something? About the influence of their religious beliefs on their decisions?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Sunday, November 29, 2009 - 6:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Markobr (Markobr)
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Is the scrund about the way people make decisions?see next answer but one About their motives for doing something? see next answer About the influence of their religious beliefs on their decisions? yesish or maybe yope
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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10 commandments relevant? 7 deadly sins? Other sins? Hypocrisy? Holy texts? Morality?
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Sunday, November 29, 2009 - 9:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the scrund about how important religious teachings are for everyday decisions?
Biograd (Biograd)
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Is there a specific decision or type of decision that is relevant here? or just decisions in general?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Tuesday, December 01, 2009 - 10:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Galfisk (Galfisk)
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10 commandments relevant? 7 deadly sins? Other sins? Hypocrisy? Holy texts? Morality? all are relevant
Markobr (Markobr)
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Is the scrund about how important religious teachings are for everyday decisions? yesish
Biograd (Biograd)
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Is there a specific decision or type of decision that is relevant here? no or just decisions in general? yes
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 9:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the scrund about the result of decision-making (i.e. what religious people finally decide to do)? About the criteria for decision-making? The speed of decision-making? Something else in the process of decision-making?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 6:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Markobr (Markobr)
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Is the scrund about the result of decision-making (i.e. what religious people finally decide to do)? yope or yesish About the criteria for decision-makingb{ yes or yesish} The speed of decision-making? no Something else in the process of decision-making? no
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 6:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the scrund related to the idea that religious people make personal decisions based on the teachings of their religion?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 02, 2009 - 9:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel (Noel)
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Is the scrund related to the idea that religious people make personal decisions based on the teachings of their religion?Yesish, but that's not the whole scrund. You're very ORT, though
Probably_monty_hall (Probably_monty_hall)
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Is it something like "religious people are hypocrites"?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Probably_monty_hall (Probably_monty_hall)
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Is it something like "religious people are hypocrites"? no
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Friday, December 04, 2009 - 1:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does it have to do with comparing the decisions of religious people to non-religious people? That because they use the teachings of their religion to make decisions, their decisions are very different? When often, religious and non-religious people make the same decision?

Or that the teaching's of one's religion are the most important decision-making influence?

Or that religious people pray before making a big decision?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Sunday, December 06, 2009 - 7:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel (Noel)
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Does it have to do with comparing the decisions of religious people to non-religious people?This is part of the scrund but not the whole scrund That because they use the teachings of their religion to make decisions, their decisions are very different? possiblyWhen often, religious and non-religious people make the same decision? noish

Or that the teaching's of one's religion are the most important decision-making influence? This is part of the scrund but not the whole scrund. You're very ORT, though!!

Or that religious people pray before making a big decision? possibly
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Wednesday, December 09, 2009 - 11:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there another relevant thing also influencing their decisions? Does it involve weighing decisions against religious and real-world concerns? Legality relevant? Difficulty in making decisions for people who don't have a very strong conviction? The concept of good and evil relevant? Only big decisions relevant, or all decisions?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Is there another relevant thing also influencing their decisions? yesDoes it involve weighing decisions against religious and real-world concerns? Legality relevant? yesDifficulty in making decisions for people who don't have a very strong conviction? no The concept of good and evil relevant? yes Only big decisions relevant, or all decisions?Some but not all big decisions are relevant, as are some but not all small decisions. Also, not decisions are not the only thing that this scrund is about.
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 2:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

separation of church and state relevant?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Noel (Noel)
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separation of church and state relevant? no
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Sunday, December 13, 2009 - 9:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

HINT: Not only are people who have this scrund either very religious or totally non-religious, but so are most of the people they know.
Twilightseeker (Twilightseeker)
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Does it have something to do with swearing? i.e. taking god's name in vain or something like this?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Does it have something to do with swearing? noi.e. taking god's name in vain or something like this? no
Twilightseeker (Twilightseeker)
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Posted on Thursday, December 17, 2009 - 11:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it related to the concepts of good/evil being based on religion versus general social mores?

Are these "decisions" talked about above general or specific?

If people in these groups knew others that weren't either very religious or totally non-religious, would they automatically be unable to have this scrund?

Would anyone find this scrund offensive to others? Really religious people? Atheists/agnostics? Other people?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Twilightseeker (Twilightseeker)
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Is it related to the concepts of good/evil being based on religion versus general social mores? yope

Are these "decisions" talked about above general or specific? general

If people in these groups knew others that weren't either very religious or totally non-religious, would they automatically be unable to have this scrund? yes possibly

Would anyone find this scrund offensive to others? Really religious people? noAtheists/agnostics? no Other people? possibly
Twilightseeker (Twilightseeker)
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Is it about absolutes? That one must have conviction about some belief(s)?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Twilightseeker (Twilightseeker)
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Is it about absolutes? Please clarifyThat one must have conviction about some belief(s)? ditto
Twilightseeker (Twilightseeker)
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Absolutes, meaning moral absolutism as opposed to relativism.
Is it related to conviction in one's belief(s) as the absolute truth? (i.e. possibly something a very religious person or a hardcore atheist might have...)
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Friday, December 18, 2009 - 7:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Twilightseeker (Twilightseeker)
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Posted on Friday, December 18, 2009 - 5:32 am: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Absolutes, meaning moral absolutism as opposed to relativism.
Is it related to conviction in one's belief(s) as the absolute truth? (i.e. possibly something a very religious person or a hardcore atheist might have...) no
Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Saturday, December 19, 2009 - 9:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the scrund about the importance of convictions for everyday life?
Nimue (Nimue)
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Posted on Monday, December 21, 2009 - 6:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Markobr (Markobr)
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Posted on Saturday, December 19, 2009 - 9:04 pm: Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)
Is the scrund about the importance of convictions for everyday life? Yes!!

******SPOILER **************
Having grown up in a secular Jewish community where people were sometimes ethnocentric (which I disliked) but virtually never religious believers, I had the idea that if you believed in God, this belief was one of the most important things in your life. What a surprise when I went away to college & met religious believers who took their religious beliefs casually, To them, your heavenly father was like their earthly father: you loved him & knew he loved you, & could turn to him when you were in trouble. But his ideas were antiquated, his rules were too strict, & it was more fun to hang out with your friends. Another interesting surprise was that people from very religious backgrounds were as surprised as I was by casually religious people. Of course, that was silly of me. Religious beliefs don't imply fervor any more than political beliefs do.Forum regulars know that I'm a firm liberal. But politics are a low priority with me. I have more fervor for the forum: please check out my next puzzle!

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