| Author | Message | ||
| Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
New member Username: Yojimbo Post Number: 206 Registered: 11-2009 |
I overheard this chunk of a chat recently, was intrigued, and asked about it (and was interested in the explanation; a topic I already enjoy, it turned out). Hope you're intrigued, too -- I think I have it verbatim... ~ Y "Everybody was doing four, maybe three, occasionally five or seven..." "What about six, and twelve?" "Oh, sure -- those, of course. But he was doing, like, seventeen, routinely." what are they talking about? And I'd really like you to find out who "he" is... | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1391 Registered: 7-2009 |
Are the numbers size measurements? Counts? Repetitions? Labels/identifications? Speeds? | ||
| Probably_monty_hall (Probably_monty_hall)
New member Username: Probably_monty_hall Post Number: 118 Registered: 10-2009 |
Everybody = H/A/M? Birds? He = H/A/M? A bird? | ||
| Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
New member Username: Yojimbo Post Number: 212 Registered: 11-2009 |
Are the numbers size measurements? Counts? this Repetitions? Labels/identifications? Speeds? Everybody = H/A/M? some HAFs as well (mostly HAM), but irr Birds? He = H/A/M? yes, and relevant A bird? | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1394 Registered: 7-2009 |
Counts --> of objects? of people? of categories of something? of animals? of skills? | ||
| Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
New member Username: Yojimbo Post Number: 214 Registered: 11-2009 |
Counts --> of objects? of people? of categories of something? this is closest of animals? of skills? we may have a brisk puzzle here... | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1395 Registered: 7-2009 |
would "types" fit better than categories? categories/types of people? categories/types of skills? categories/types of actions? categories/types of things? categories/types of tasks? When someone does a certain number (use five as an example), is he doing five simultaneously? one after the other? in a certain period of time? or is it that he is able to do five (i.e. his repertoire consists of five)? | ||
| Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
New member Username: Yojimbo Post Number: 216 Registered: 11-2009 |
would "types" fit better than categories? in your previous post, "of categories of something?" the close part was the "something," rather than "categories." Perhaps not much help, but may stave off a wee FA. Let's say it's "counts of something intangible." categories/types of people? categories/types of skills? categories/types of actions? categories/types of things? ...so this is closest. categories/types of tasks? When someone does a certain number (use five as an example), is he doing five simultaneously? no. one after the other? thus, this. in a certain period of time? nearly this. or is it that he is able to do five (i.e. his repertoire consists of five)? no, "five" is pretty straightforward, but "seventeen" legitimately astonished the fellows having the chat -- in my opinion. | ||
| Alex319 (Alex319)
New member Username: Alex319 Post Number: 874 Registered: 5-2007 |
Are higher numbers always more impressive than lower numbers? Were they playing a game? Video game? Board game? Sports competition? Some other kind of competition? Are the numbers a score of some kind? A difficulty rating? Is the goal to get the highest number possible? | ||
| Natanz (Natanz)
New member Username: Natanz Post Number: 156 Registered: 8-2009 |
Were they doing repetitions in training? Like weight lifting? Or other fitness related repetitions? Do 6 and 12 have specific meaning, or could that person for example also have asked about 8 and 11? Is money involved? Food? Gigs? Music? Drugs? Movies? Can everyone do 17? Routinely? Is it good to do 17? Or does that depend on your physical condition? | ||
| Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
New member Username: Yojimbo Post Number: 217 Registered: 11-2009 |
Are higher numbers always more impressive than lower numbers? yope Were they playing a game? Video game? Board game? Sports competition? Some other kind of competition? Are the numbers a score of some kind? A difficulty rating? Is the goal to get the highest number possible? none of this Were they doing repetitions in training? Like weight lifting? Or other fitness related repetitions? not this Do 6 and 12 have specific meaning, they do or could that person for example also have asked about 8 and 11? highly unlikely Is money involved? indirectly; let's say irr Food? Gigs? this, a bit Music? and this Drugs? not necessarily this, but sometimes Movies? not this Can everyone do 17? in theory, yes; in practice, not so much Routinely? yes, for the ones who can Is it good to do 17? it's impressive, at least -- although it's not to everyone's taste. Or does that depend on your physical condition? not this | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1400 Registered: 7-2009 |
Is he a musician? A dancer? A DJ? A bartender? When he does 17, is it as part of a job? | ||
| Natanz (Natanz)
New member Username: Natanz Post Number: 158 Registered: 8-2009 |
Is there a maximum number that is theoretically possible? Physically possible? Is there a minimum number that is theoretically possible? Physically possible? Is 1/2 possible? Are the numbers just counts, or do they also stand for something (like cities?) Romance relevant? | ||
| Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
New member Username: Yojimbo Post Number: 227 Registered: 11-2009 |
Is he a musician? this A dancer? A DJ? A bartender? When he does 17, is it as part of a job? yes Is there a maximum number that is theoretically possible? technically, no - although "17" is scraping the ceiling of conventional values for this. Physically possible? infinity is possible, although I've not seen it yet... that would be pretty experimental. Maybe I'll try to be the pioneer! Is there a minimum number that is theoretically possible? 1 is possible, but let's say it's impractical - 2 is typically the lowest applicable number. Physically possible? 1 is possible, zero is not. I hope the numerical answers above don't mislead... Is 1/2 possible? no. Are the numbers just counts, yes... or do they also stand for something ...but they do stand for something... (like cities? ...although nothing tangible like this.) Romance relevant? according to my wife it is, and I'm inclined to agree - although it's irrelevant to this puzzle. | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1402 Registered: 7-2009 |
Is he a singer? A drummer or other percussionist? a pianist? a wind player? A strings player? | ||
| Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
New member Username: Yojimbo Post Number: 229 Registered: 11-2009 |
Is he a singer? A drummer or other percussionist? a pianist? a wind player?<-this, and also a ____... A strings player? not this, nor any of the rest. | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1404 Registered: 7-2009 |
wind player --> did he play the flute? trumpet? clarinet? oboe? french horn? saxophone? tuba? trombone? baritone? recorder? harmonica? didgeridoo? If none of these, to which is it most similar? also a ___ --> does the blank indicate that he is a different kind of musician than those listed? A composer? A conductor? A tap dancer? | ||
| Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
New member Username: Yojimbo Post Number: 236 Registered: 11-2009 |
wind player --> did he play the flute? trumpet? this, but he's known more for being a ____. clarinet? oboe? french horn? saxophone? tuba? trombone? baritone? recorder? harmonica? didgeridoo? If none of these, to which is it most similar? also a ___ --> does the blank indicate that he is a different kind of musician than those listed? A composer? this... A conductor? ...and this; if you put these two together, you can arrive at the filled ____. Want to give it a shot? A tap dancer? | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1407 Registered: 7-2009 |
band leader? writer/director? something along these lines? Is his ability to do 17 related to his trumpeting abilities? conducting abilities? songwriting abilities? | ||
| Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
New member Username: Yojimbo Post Number: 237 Registered: 11-2009 |
band leader? that's it, exactly. writer/director? something along these lines? Is his ability to do 17 related to his trumpeting abilities? conducting abilities? this, a bit... songwriting abilities? ...and this -- let's say "yesish" to both of those. | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1410 Registered: 7-2009 |
17 band members? 17 of the same instrument? 17 notes? | ||
| Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
New member Username: Yojimbo Post Number: 238 Registered: 11-2009 |
17 band members? 17 of the same instrument? 17 notes?<-this is OTRT | ||
| Gourami (Gourami)
Moderator Username: Gourami Post Number: 810 Registered: 10-2008 |
17 beats per measure? 17 notes per second (or minute)? A jump up or down seventeen notes (as in, a major seventeenth? That would be rather odd.)? Is this something he does as he conducts? As he plays trumpet? Both? Does the entire band do it? Is 17 not only amazing for how high a number it is, but for how odd it is (i.e., not a number typically used in western music)? | ||
| Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
New member Username: Yojimbo Post Number: 240 Registered: 11-2009 |
17 beats per measure? this, precisely -- can anyone tell me who was the topic of the repartee? 17 notes per second (or minute)? A jump up or down seventeen notes (as in, a major seventeenth? That would be rather odd.)? Is this something he does as he conducts? As he plays trumpet? Both? this... Does the entire band do it? ...and this -- they all do it. Is 17 not only amazing for how high a number it is, but for how odd it is both, in that it's complex, and challenging for the musician to count (i.e., not a number typically used in western music)? | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1417 Registered: 7-2009 |
Was 17 beats per measure something he normally did in a variety of songs? Or was there just one special song that was written this way? | ||
| Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
New member Username: Yojimbo Post Number: 243 Registered: 11-2009 |
Was 17 beats per measure something he normally did in a variety of songs? b{this, or at least, other unusual numbers of beats per measure.} Or was there just one special song that was written this way? There's one in particular I'm thinking of, but it's not necessarily relevant. Any idea who this relevant HAM might be? I'm not sure how googling might help find out... At any rate, the $poil is imminent; just waiting to see if you can name this fellow. | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1422 Registered: 7-2009 |
Based on the trumpet/band leader clue, I'll guess: Louis Armstrong? Miles Davis? Wynton Marsalis? | ||
| Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
New member Username: Yojimbo Post Number: 246 Registered: 11-2009 |
Based on the trumpet/band leader clue, I'll guess: Louis Armstrong? Miles Davis? Wynton Marsalis? All good guesses, but none is correct. Perhaps it will help to know that this trumpeter/band leader is no longer living? And perhaps it helps to know that while he wasn't a film score composer, per se, he did one for a classic 70s film... | ||
| Sunset1123 (Sunset1123)
New member Username: Sunset1123 Post Number: 3 Registered: 12-2009 |
email sent | ||
| Sunset1123 (Sunset1123)
New member Username: Sunset1123 Post Number: 4 Registered: 12-2009 |
email sent | ||
| Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
New member Username: Yojimbo Post Number: 248 Registered: 11-2009 |
Sunset1123 "email sent" Right you are, exactly. care to $poil? I have an engagement for a couple of hours, so if you don't get to it, I'll follow up -- including the scenario in which I overheard the dialogue... | ||
| Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
New member Username: Yojimbo Post Number: 249 Registered: 11-2009 |
Sunset1123 sent a note with the correct answer (and two box-tops from specially-marked packages), so here's the * * * * * SPOILER * * * * * "Everybody was doing four, maybe three, occasionally five or seven..." "What about six, and twelve?" "Oh, sure -- those, of course. But he was doing, like, seventeen, routinely." The speakers were referring to beats per measure in music; jazz, specifically. The HAM in question is the great jazz trumpeter and bandleader, Don Ellis (1934 - 1978). Before I posted the puzzle, I wrote out a nice spoiler, but the Wikipedia article on time signatures tells the story better and prettier than I could (with the nice illustrations, and all). I overheard a couple of teens at one of the local coffee bars (my little town has two) talking jazz. The track they were referring to was "New Horizons," on Ellis's 1967 release, Electric Bath. Here's a YouTube clip of Ellis playing it with his big band; the 17/8 time signature bit starts about 2:25 into the clip. Check it out. | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1431 Registered: 7-2009 |
playing something in 17/8 time must be painfully difficult! I can see why they were impressed. | ||
| Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
New member Username: Yojimbo Post Number: 252 Registered: 11-2009 |
yes, it's tricky. But if you count the seventeen beats (really fast) like this, 2|3|2|3|2|2|3 [one-two one-two-three one-two one-two-three one-two one-two one-two-three], then you hear a kind of syncopated seven-beat pattern. You'll hear that in the New Horizons clip, if you're into counting it out. Ellis is brilliant, and I love the stuff. Glad he's still catching on with the young crowd. | ||
| Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
New member Username: Yojimbo Post Number: 253 Registered: 11-2009 |
oops - in the last post, I notated the New Horizons pattern wrong; it's actually 3|2|3|2|2|2|3 -- the tiny counting suggestion would be altered accordingly. lest you think I'm foolish. | ||
| Biograd (Biograd)
New member Username: Biograd Post Number: 581 Registered: 6-2008 |
When I was in high school, I took a class in MIDI. This one other student in the class composed a piece in which the time signature increased repeatedly throughout, with the numbers in the signatures being a series of successive primes. It was something like 2/1 --> 3/2 --> 5/3 --> ... It must have gone quite high, as the primes increase quickly once you get past 7 or so. |
