| Author | Message | ||
| Logician (Logician)
New member Username: Logician Post Number: 615 Registered: 6-2003 |
Like any other scrund, this puzzle involves someone holding a mistaken belief about something. The only real difference is that this isn't based on personal experience. He thought, quite reasonably, they were being patriotic. They weren't. | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1425 Registered: 7-2009 |
Is he included in they? Patriotic by an action? Something they said? Something they were wearing? Something they were displaying? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 555 Registered: 5-2009 |
Country relevant? If so, LTPF list of countries. Century relevant? If so, LTPF list of centuries. Does he know them personally? Is he at the same place as they are? | ||
| Logician (Logician)
New member Username: Logician Post Number: 616 Registered: 6-2003 |
Is he included in they? no Patriotic by an action? yes Something they said? Something they were wearing? Something they were displaying? no to rest Country relevant? If so, LTPF list of countries. the UK Century relevant? If so, LTPF list of centuries. 20th Does he know them personally? not necessarily Is he at the same place as they are? no | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1427 Registered: 7-2009 |
Was it a short term action (along the lines of saluting?) Or a long term action (such as lobbying parliament?) Did they think they were being patriotic? Were they actually being UNpatriotic? Or neutral/unrelated? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 558 Registered: 5-2009 |
Is a certain part of the UK especially relevant? England? Scotland? Wales? Northern Ireland? Are they in the UK? Is he? Are they citizens of the UK? Is he one? Does he see them while they act (e.g. on TV)? Hear of the action? Read about it? Are their actions especially un-patriotic? Or simply not motivated by patriotism? | ||
| Twilightseeker (Twilightseeker)
New member Username: Twilightseeker Post Number: 82 Registered: 2-2009 |
Is his occupation/gender/race/nationality/other attribute relevant? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 1993 Registered: 5-2003 |
Does it involve a salute of some sort? | ||
| Yojimbo (Yojimbo)
New member Username: Yojimbo Post Number: 254 Registered: 11-2009 |
along the same lines - were they actually being rude, rather than patriotic? | ||
| Logician (Logician)
New member Username: Logician Post Number: 617 Registered: 6-2003 |
Was it a short term action (along the lines of saluting?) yesish Or a long term action (such as lobbying parliament?) noish Did they think they were being patriotic? no Were they actually being UNpatriotic? yes Or neutral/unrelated? so no Is a certain part of the UK especially relevant? no England? Scotland? Wales? Northern Ireland? Are they in the UK? Is he? yes to both Are they citizens of the UK? Is he one? yes to both Does he see them while they act (e.g. on TV)? no... Hear of the action? Read about it? either of these Is his occupation/gender/race/nationality/other attribute relevant? no Does it involve a salute of some sort? no along the same lines - were they actually being rude, rather than patriotic? in the same way as they were being unpatriotic, yes | ||
| Twilightseeker (Twilightseeker)
New member Username: Twilightseeker Post Number: 88 Registered: 2-2009 |
Were they trying to be unpatriotic? Were they protesters? Was it related to something they were wearing? saying? writing/speaking? is there violence involved here? is this form of being unpatriotic legal? generally socially acceptable in context? Was this a large group of people? More than 2? 10+? A large demographic? Does this involve the Queen/royalty? Navy/military? Parliament/other legal body? | ||
| Logician (Logician)
New member Username: Logician Post Number: 618 Registered: 6-2003 |
Were they trying to be unpatriotic? yes Were they protesters? define? Was it related to something they were wearing? saying? writing/speaking? none of these is there violence involved here? no is this form of being unpatriotic legal? yes generally socially acceptable in context? only if the so a monarchist / against displays of anti-monarchism generally Was this a large group of people? yes More than 2? 10+? 10+++ would probably be more accurate ;) A large demographic? insofar as it's a large group in general, yes Does this involve the Queen/royalty? yes Navy/military? Parliament/other legal body? none of these | ||
| Logician (Logician)
New member Username: Logician Post Number: 619 Registered: 6-2003 |
Semantics correction:only if you're a monarchist... | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 561 Registered: 5-2009 |
He reads or hears about the action. Does he misunderstand something about the physical course of the action? About the context of the action? Just about the group's motives? Is he a monarchist? Does he think the action is directed against (displays of) anti-monarchism? The size of the group: 10-50? 51-100? 101-500? 501-2500? 2500-10000? 10000-25000? 25000-100000? 100000-500000? More than 500000? Elections relevant? Demonstrations? Flashmobs? Political parties? Violent political activism? Is the Internet relevant? | ||
| Logician (Logician)
New member Username: Logician Post Number: 621 Registered: 6-2003 |
He reads or hears about the action. Does he misunderstand something about the physical course of the action? About the context of the action? Just about the group's motives? a mixture of these three, depending on one's viewpoint Is he a monarchist? irr. Does he think the action is directed against (displays of) anti-monarchism? no The size of the group: 10-50? 51-100? 101-500? 501-2500? 2500-10000? 10000-25000? 25000-100000? 100000-500000? More than 500000? Don't know/indeterminate - probably between 10,000 and 100,000 Elections relevant? Demonstrations Flashmobs? Political parties? Violent political activism? no to all Is the Internet relevant? no | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 565 Registered: 5-2009 |
Were all the 10.000 to 100.000 people assembled at one place? Assembled in several places but usually at least 20 of them in one place? Did they usually act in smaller groups? Everyone on his/her own? Are they all H? A? F? Pictures of the Queen relevant? Wild guess: Maybe on stamps? | ||
| Logician (Logician)
New member Username: Logician Post Number: 622 Registered: 6-2003 |
Were all the 10.000 to 100.000 people assembled at one place? Assembled in several places but usually at least 20 of them in one place? Did they usually act in smaller groups? Everyone on his/her own? this one Are they all H? yes A? probably F? irrelevant Pictures of the Queen relevant? no Wild guess: Maybe on stamps? | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 897 Registered: 9-2009 |
Did the group do this once? Multiple times? During a period of time? Did they show disrespect for the Queen? The flag? Something else? Would anybody doing what they did be considered to show disrespect? Satire involved? Irony? | ||
| Logician (Logician)
New member Username: Logician Post Number: 623 Registered: 6-2003 |
Did the group do this once? this Multiple times? no During a period of time? depending on your understanding of the action, could be this too Did they show disrespect for the Queen? yes The flag? Something else? no to both Would anybody doing what they did be considered to show disrespect? yes Satire involved? Irony? no to both | ||
| Twilightseeker (Twilightseeker)
New member Username: Twilightseeker Post Number: 92 Registered: 2-2009 |
The event/action of this group--did it happen within the last 500 years? 100? 50? 20? 5? Is it a widely known occasion in the UK? In the world? | ||
| Logician (Logician)
New member Username: Logician Post Number: 624 Registered: 6-2003 |
The event/action of this group--did it happen within the last 500 years? 100? 50? within the last 50 years, but not 20 20? 5? Is it a widely known occasion in the UK? In the world? not sure - could be well known, or might be a niche within which I'm blind to the outside ;) | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 921 Registered: 9-2009 |
Could anyone reasonably think they were being patriotic? Or was it quite plain to see that they weren't, but for some peculiar reason he had good reason to belive they were? Is he HAM? HCM? Is he royalty? Did they intend to decieve him? | ||
| Logician (Logician)
New member Username: Logician Post Number: 625 Registered: 6-2003 |
Could anyone reasonably think they were being patriotic? perhaps, if they didn't know the background/context in question Or was it quite plain to see that they weren't, but for some peculiar reason he had good reason to belive they were? no Is he HAM? HCM? either of these would work Is he royalty? Did they intend to decieve him? no to both | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 930 Registered: 9-2009 |
Was the group known for being against the Queen? Did they do their thing on a special day? Holiday? Was the event broadcast? Newsworthy? Did the group assemble? Or do it all over the country? Were they percieved as showing respect? Or showing disrespect, but for something else? Was the Queen present when they did it? | ||
| Logician (Logician)
New member Username: Logician Post Number: 626 Registered: 6-2003 |
Was the group known for being against the Queen? no... Did they do their thing on a special day? no, with a very small ish Holiday? no, once again with a very small ish Was the event broadcast? yope Newsworthy? yes Did the group assemble? no Or do it all over the country? yes Were they percieved as showing respect? yes Or showing disrespect, but for something else? no Was the Queen present when they did it? no | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 952 Registered: 9-2009 |
Did it become a special day after they had done it on that day? Was it a protest? Against something specific at that time? A strike? Unions relevant? | ||
| Logician (Logician)
New member Username: Logician Post Number: 627 Registered: 6-2003 |
Did it become a special day after they had done it on that day? no Was it a protest? yes Against something specific at that time? yope A strike? Unions relevant? no to both | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 583 Registered: 5-2009 |
Could this have happened in a kingdom other than the UK? A kingdom with a queen/king different from that of the UK? In a republic (take, say, the president instead of the king/queen)? Was it a protest against something the Queen did? Other royalty? The government? Patriotic people? | ||
| Twilightseeker (Twilightseeker)
New member Username: Twilightseeker Post Number: 97 Registered: 2-2009 |
Did the people do this in the privacy of their homes? At work? In public? Just in general/everywhere? Did they wear something? Say something? Make a type of gesture? Not wear/say/do something? | ||
| Logician (Logician)
New member Username: Logician Post Number: 628 Registered: 6-2003 |
Could this have happened in a kingdom other than the UK? no A kingdom with a queen/king different from that of the UK? no In a republic (take, say, the president instead of the king/queen)? no Was it a protest against something the Queen did? Other royalty? The government? Patriotic people? yes to all, but only for svv of "did" Did the people do this in the privacy of their homes? At work? In public? yesish Just in general/everywhere? no to rest Did they wear something? Say something? Make a type of gesture? Not wear/say/do something? no to these... | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1469 Registered: 7-2009 |
Did they sing something? A patriotic song? God Save the Queen? | ||
| Logician (Logician)
New member Username: Logician Post Number: 631 Registered: 6-2003 |
Did they sing something? no A patriotic song? no God Save the Queen? yes | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1481 Registered: 7-2009 |
Hmm, so "God Save the Queen" was involved, but they didn't sing it? Did they play it on an instrument? On a stereo system/loudspeaker? Display the text? Read the text? Say the phrase "God Save the Queen"? Display the phrase "God Save the Queen"? | ||
| Logician (Logician)
New member Username: Logician Post Number: 632 Registered: 6-2003 |
I'll answer these questions directly, but an FA may be present. (But it is not the cause of the number of no's in the following answers.) So beware... Hmm, so "God Save the Queen" was involved, but they didn't sing it? correct Did they play it on an instrument? On a stereo system/loudspeaker? Display the text? Read the text? Say the phrase "God Save the Queen"? Display the phrase "God Save the Queen"? no to the rest | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 1125 Registered: 9-2009 |
God Save the Queen - is the song relevant? Or the phrase? If it's the song, is the following relevant: the lyrics? The tune? A recording of it? A performance? The composer of the song? God relevant? Religion? | ||
| Logician (Logician)
New member Username: Logician Post Number: 633 Registered: 6-2003 |
God Save the Queen - is the song relevant? yes Or the phrase? no If it's the song, is the following relevant: the lyrics? yes The tune? no A recording of it? yes A performance? no The composer of the song? no God relevant? Religion? no to both | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1519 Registered: 7-2009 |
Is it a particular line in the lyrics that is relevant? A particular stanza? the entirety of the lyrics? Or just the general idea of the lyrics? | ||
| Logician (Logician)
New member Username: Logician Post Number: 634 Registered: 6-2003 |
Is it a particular line in the lyrics that is relevant? A particular stanza? no to both the entirety of the lyrics? Or just the general idea of the lyrics? both of these, in complementary ways | ||
| Hominid (Hominid)
New member Username: Hominid Post Number: 15 Registered: 1-2010 |
Is he playing a recording of the song? Is someone else? Is it relevant who originally created the recording? Was the recording of a parody of the song? Were they indoors? Were they outdoors? Was the queen present? Did she know about this? Did she know they were being unpatriotic. Was this Queen Elizabeth? Queen Victoria? Was this during Elizabeth's reign? Victoria's? Was this in the 1950s? '60s? '70s? '80s? '90s? Is it really relevant that this was in the 20th century, or is that just an appropriate time for it to take place? | ||
| Logician (Logician)
New member Username: Logician Post Number: 635 Registered: 6-2003 |
Is he playing a recording of the song? Is someone else? no to both Is it relevant who originally created the recording? noish Was the recording of a parody of the song? FA, no recording involved Were they indoors? Were they outdoors? neither in particular - more outdoors than indoors, but beware FA Was the queen present? no Did she know about this? maybe Did she know they were being unpatriotic. if she knew that it was happening, then yes she would Was this Queen Elizabeth? yes Queen Victoria? Was this during Elizabeth's reign? yes Victoria's? Was this in the 1950s? '60s? '70s? '80s? '90s? the 70s Is it really relevant that this was in the 20th century, or is that just an appropriate time for it to take place? It would have been impossible for this to happen before the 20th Century. | ||
| Hominid (Hominid)
New member Username: Hominid Post Number: 107 Registered: 1-2010 |
Is there a parody of the song involved? An alternate version? Was he just an average passerby? Can we call him Iain? | ||
| Torquemada (Torquemada)
New member Username: Torquemada Post Number: 21 Registered: 1-2010 |
Does "God Save the Queen" refer to the national anthem? Did he think it did? Does this have anything to do with the Sex Pistols and their single "God Save the Queen" in 1977? On a punt: Does he think, because he only knows the name of the song, that large numbers of people are buying the single out of a sense of patriotism in the Silver Jubilee year, whereas a basic knowledge of the lyrics would make it very clear that the reverse is true? | ||
| Logician (Logician)
New member Username: Logician Post Number: 637 Registered: 6-2003 |
***** SPOILER ***** Usually, I would at this point write a summary of the solution. Thanfully, however, Torquemada has been very kind and written one out already in the form of a correct guess, which I reproduce below. Well done :-) Does this have anything to do with the Sex Pistols and their single "God Save the Queen" in 1977? Does he think, because he only knows the name of the song, that large numbers of people are buying the single out of a sense of patriotism in the Silver Jubilee year, whereas a basic knowledge of the lyrics would make it very clear that the reverse is true? |
