| Author | Message | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 1624 Registered: 11-2008 |
When Stan passed out, George remembered an old skill. It meant not much of a change for him – he was to die one way or the other - but it resulted in an injury, a financial loss and a great shame. What happened? | ||
| Fleemco198 (Fleemco198)
New member Username: Fleemco198 Post Number: 331 Registered: 9-2009 |
him= stan or george? he= stan or george? did the skill have anything to do with first aid? CPR? medical training of any kind? were stan and george in the same room? building? how did stan pass out? due to a medical condition? Hypoxia? loss of blood? LPTF list stan and george's age. the injury was to whom? financial loss? great shame? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 1625 Registered: 11-2008 |
him= stan or george? George he= stan or george? George did the skill have anything to do with first aid? No CPR? No medical training of any kind? No were stan and george in the same room? No building? No how did stan pass out? due to a medical condition? No Hypoxia? No loss of blood? No LPTF list stan and george's age. Stan is about 65, George is about 25. the injury was to whom? financial loss? great shame? These are not yes/no questions, are they? | ||
| Oisin (Oisin)
New member Username: Oisin Post Number: 219 Registered: 12-2008 |
Stan H? A? M? George H? A? M? Were Stan and George together at the time? Near each other? (if so, within touching distance? 10m? 100m?) Did Stan know George previous to this incident? Did George know Stan? Was the injury / loss / shame Stan's? Was the injury / loss / shame George's? Was George going to die in the next day? week? month? year? Was George aware of his impending death? Was his death from natural causes? Did Stan's passing out trigger George's memory? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 1626 Registered: 11-2008 |
Stan H? A? M? Yes George H? No A?Yes M? Yes Were Stan and George together at the time? Near each other? Yes (if so, within touching distance? 10m? Assume this 100m?) Did Stan know George previous to this incident? No Did George know Stan? No Was the injury / loss / shame Stan's? No Was the injury / loss / shame George's? No Was George going to die in the next day? Possibly week? Possibly month? Possibly year? Was George aware of his impending death? Probably not but irr Was his death from natural causes? Possibly Did Stan's passing out trigger George's memory? Not exactly, but there was something else what did | ||
| Oisin (Oisin)
New member Username: Oisin Post Number: 221 Registered: 12-2008 |
The best laid schemes... George a mouse? If not, is George a mechanoid? an alien? a fictional animal with anthropomorphic skills? an ordinary animal? Did the skill which George remembered involve his making something? doing something to Stan? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 1627 Registered: 11-2008 |
The best laid schemes... George a mouse? Brilliant thinking, but no If not, is George a mechanoid? an alien? a fictional animal with anthropomorphic skills? an ordinary animal? This Did the skill which George remembered involve his making something? If you mean "making" as "producing" then No doing something to Stan? No | ||
| Oisin (Oisin)
New member Username: Oisin Post Number: 222 Registered: 12-2008 |
pass out: to faint? to graduate from military academy? to distribute something? George's skill: artistic? singing? dancing? whistling? George as an animal: LTPF list of animals allowed? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 1630 Registered: 11-2008 |
pass out: to faint? This to graduate from military academy? to distribute something? George's skill: artistic? DOYD of artistic singing? dancing? whistling? No to rest George as an animal: LTPF list of animals allowed? That would be making it too easy, wouldn't it? But OK. George is a bear. | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 653 Registered: 5-2009 |
Did George cause Stan to pass out? Is George a wild bear? A bear in a zoological garden? In a circus? In some kind of scientific research station or laboratory? Did he live where he lives for his whole life? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 1633 Registered: 11-2008 |
Did George cause Stan to pass out? Yes Is George a wild bear? A bear in a zoological garden? In a circus? This In some kind of scientific research station or laboratory? Did he live where he lives for his whole life? Good question. No. | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 655 Registered: 5-2009 |
Will George die because somebody will intentionally kill him? For the reason that he proved to be dangerous? Does Stan work for the circus? Visit the circus? Does Stan also die? Was George previously a wild bear? A bear in a zoological garden? In some kind of scientific research station or laboratory? In another circus? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 1636 Registered: 11-2008 |
Will George die because somebody will intentionally kill him? This is one of the possibilities For the reason that he proved to be dangerous? No Does Stan work for the circus? Visit the circus? Does Stan also die? No to all Was George previously a wild bear? Irr, probably not A bear in a zoological garden? No In some kind of scientific research station or laboratory? No In another circus? No | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 658 Registered: 5-2009 |
Does George's remembering of an old skill change the way he will die? Is the old skill something he learned for a circus act? Does George use the old skill to escape? Is there something on fire? Is George in the circus when he remembers the old skill? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 1638 Registered: 11-2008 |
Does George's remembering of an old skill change the way he will die? Yes Is the old skill something he learned for a circus act? Yes Does George use the old skill to escape? Not really Is there something on fire? No Is George in the circus when he remembers the old skill? No. Good question. | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 659 Registered: 5-2009 |
Did George break out of the circus? Was stolen from the circus? Confiscated? Or brought to some other place by the circus people or with their consent? Will George now that he remembered his old skill die by an intentional killing? An accident? Natural forces (say, a sunstroke or freezing to death)? Hunger? Sickness? Would George otherwise die by an intentional killing? An accident? Natural forces (say, a sunstroke or freezing to death)? Hunger? Sickness? Geographical location relevant? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 1641 Registered: 11-2008 |
Did George break out of the circus? Was stolen from the circus? Confiscated? Or brought to some other place by the circus people or with their consent? This Will George now that he remembered his old skill die by an intentional killing? Possibly this... An accident? Natural forces (say, a sunstroke or freezing to death)? Hunger? Sickness? ...or this Would George otherwise die by an intentional killing? Very likely An accident? Natural forces (say, a sunstroke or freezing to death)? Hunger? Sickness? Possibly Geographical location relevant? Only in general terms | ||
| Oisin (Oisin)
New member Username: Oisin Post Number: 223 Registered: 12-2008 |
The bear's skill: linked to the circus? tightrope walking? unicycling? balancing an object? balancing on an object? using some other piece of circu equipment? Does the George make physical contact with Stan? Are there other humans around at the time? Is one of them injured? By George directly? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 661 Registered: 5-2009 |
Is George sick when he remembers the skill? Is sickness the reason why the circus people brought George to another place? Is Stan a veterinary? Did Stan pass out because he just discovered something shocking? Because of an accident? Was the injury / loss / shame (some of) the circus people's? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 1643 Registered: 11-2008 |
The bear's skill: linked to the circus? Yes tightrope walking? unicycling? balancing an object? balancing on an object? using some other piece of circu equipment? Yes; no to rest Does the George make physical contact with Stan? No Are there other humans around at the time? Yes Is one of them injured? Yes By George directly? No Is George sick when he remembers the skill? Yes Is sickness the reason why the circus people brought George to another place? Yes Is Stan a veterinary? No Did Stan pass out because he just discovered something shocking? Yes Because of an accident? No Was the injury / loss / shame (some of) the circus people's? No | ||
| Oisin (Oisin)
New member Username: Oisin Post Number: 224 Registered: 12-2008 |
Is the shock that Stan receives linked to George? something that Stan sees? hears? reads? is told by another? Is the subsequent shame linked to the shock? The piece of circus equipment - is it normally associated with the circus? with music? sports? food? Is it a cage? a hoop?a bucket of water? Did George use this equipment as part of the circus show? Did the circus act involve humans falling to the ground? (clowns?) Did anyone do something to try and help Stan before George remembered this skill? Was it that action that triggered the memory? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 1644 Registered: 11-2008 |
Is the shock that Stan receives linked to George? Yes something that Stan sees? Yes hears? reads? is told by another? No to rest Is the subsequent shame linked to the shock? No The piece of circus equipment - is it normally associated with the circus? No with music? sports? This is closest food? Is it a cage? a hoop?a bucket of water? Neither Did George use this equipment as part of the circus show? Yes Did the circus act involve humans falling to the ground? (clowns?) No Did anyone do something to try and help Stan before George remembered this skill? No Was it that action that triggered the memory? No | ||
| Fleemco198 (Fleemco198)
New member Username: Fleemco198 Post Number: 333 Registered: 9-2009 |
could george and stan see each other? if not did he find out by some one telling him? from a news broadcast? was the injury/loss/shame inflicted upon a bystander? | ||
| Oisin (Oisin)
New member Username: Oisin Post Number: 225 Registered: 12-2008 |
The sports (ish): soccer? hockey? athletics? gymnastics? swimming? is it actually a sport? (Hmm, I suppose that could be a DOYD of sport...) Is it an Olympic sport? A sport which people engage in professionally? Does the injury occur at the time of George's demonstration of his skill? Almost immediately? Within the next 5 minutes? Hour? Day? Is the shame merely felt by an individual, or is there a public shaming? Is the shame linked to George's death? What Stan sees that shocks him: that there is a bear there at all? what George is doing? what other people are doing to George? And is George restrained in any way? caged? chained? on a leash? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 1645 Registered: 11-2008 |
could george and stan see each other? Stan can see George; it is irrelevant whether George sees Stan if not did he find out by some one telling him? from a news broadcast? No to rest was the injury/loss/shame inflicted upon a bystander? Not exactly but OTRT The sports (ish): soccer? hockey? athletics? gymnastics? swimming? Neither is it actually a sport? (Hmm, I suppose that could be a DOYD of sport...) That's correct ;-)) Is it an Olympic sport? It is not included in the Olympic program but it is recognized by the International Olympic Committee A sport which people engage in professionally? Yes Does the injury occur at the time of George's demonstration of his skill? Yes Almost immediately? Within the next 5 minutes? Hour? Day? Is the shame merely felt by an individual, or is there a public shaming? This Is the shame linked to George's death? No What Stan sees that shocks him: that there is a bear there at all? This, no to rest what George is doing? what other people are doing to George? And is George restrained in any way? caged? chained? on a leash? Neither | ||
| Oisin (Oisin)
New member Username: Oisin Post Number: 226 Registered: 12-2008 |
So George is unrestrained at the time. Is George being supervised at this time? or has he escaped from the circus? Is there a specific event that triggers George's memory? Something he sees? hears? Is this linked to other people's reaction to George? to their reaction to Stan's fainting? The skill - does it involve George picking up anything with his paws? with his mouth? The article of equipment: a ball? an item of clothing? An item for hitting a ball (racket? club? bat?) Does George keep hold of the item, or does he have to release it in some way? Oh, and just to check: is the exact species of bear relevant? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 1670 Registered: 11-2008 |
So George is unrestrained at the time. Correct Is George being supervised at this time? Yesish or has he escaped from the circus? No Is there a specific event that triggers George's memory? Yes Something he sees? This hears? And this, too Is this linked to other people's reaction to George? Yes to their reaction to Stan's fainting? No The skill - does it involve George picking up anything with his paws? Not exactly picking up, but his paws do interfere with something with his mouth? No The article of equipment: a ball? an item of clothing? An item for hitting a ball (racket? club? bat?) Neither Does George keep hold of the item, or does he have to release it in some way? Keeps hold of it Oh, and just to check: is the exact species of bear relevant? No, just one of those which usually act in circuses | ||
| Oisin (Oisin)
New member Username: Oisin Post Number: 227 Registered: 12-2008 |
Are other people expecting to see George? Does George run towards people? climb on something? Could his skill be mistaken for a threat? Is their current physical location relevant? Near the circus? Is any crime being committed? Military operation involved? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 1674 Registered: 11-2008 |
Are other people expecting to see George? Yes Does George run towards people? Yesish climb on something? No Could his skill be mistaken for a threat? No Is their current physical location relevant? Yes Near the circus? NoIs any crime being committed? No Military operation involved? No | ||
| Oisin (Oisin)
New member Username: Oisin Post Number: 229 Registered: 12-2008 |
Has George finished his circus career? Is he now employed in some other capacity? Do the circus owners know that George is at his current location? Or is George there to advertise the circus? Is he deliberately unrestrained? Could he attack the human bystanders? Are there safety measures in place? The sport - is it a sport between opposing teams? individuals? a sport which involves a definite measure of success, such as goals scored? or one which needs a subjective judging of merit, such as diving or dancing? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 1677 Registered: 11-2008 |
Has George finished his circus career? Yes Is he now employed in some other capacity? Yesish Do the circus owners know that George is at his current location? Probably but rather irr Or is George there to advertise the circus? No Is he deliberately unrestrained? Yes Could he attack the human bystanders? Yes Are there safety measures in place? No The sport - is it a sport between opposing teams? Can be this individuals? or this; it encompasses quite a wide variety of disciplines a sport which involves a definite measure of success, such as goals scored? Mostly this or one which needs a subjective judging of merit, such as diving or dancing? | ||
| Oisin (Oisin)
New member Username: Oisin Post Number: 230 Registered: 12-2008 |
Do the bystanders who expect to see the bear realise that he could attack them? Are they unworried because they are armed? Are they hoping to hunt bears? Does George's skill involve weapons of some sort? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 1679 Registered: 11-2008 |
Do the bystanders who expect to see the bear realise that he could attack them? FA Are they unworried because they are armed? Yesish Are they hoping to hunt bears? Yes Does George's skill involve weapons of some sort? No | ||
| Oisin (Oisin)
New member Username: Oisin Post Number: 231 Registered: 12-2008 |
FA - bystander singular? Has the bystander (s) come here specifically to hunt bear? Has George been brought here for him/her/them to hunt? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 1681 Registered: 11-2008 |
FA - bystander singular? I perhaps caused some confusion - when answering your question about bystanders I meant that George would be able to attack any potential bystanders as he was unrestrained, had no muzzle etc., it did not automatically mean that the bystanders actually were there. Let us say there was one relevant bystander Has the bystander (s) come here specifically to hunt bear? Yes Has George been brought here for him/her/them to hunt? Yes | ||
| Oisin (Oisin)
New member Username: Oisin Post Number: 232 Registered: 12-2008 |
OK - so George is an ex-circus bear, who has been taken to this place for an individual (A? M?) to 'hunt'. Does the individual realise that George is an ex-circus bear? or does he/she think it to be a wild bear? Is the future shame linked to people's revulsion at the idea of killing a 'tame' bear? Is the reason for hunting George rather than a wild bear relevant? Is the individual a poor shot? A dying hunter who wants one last kill, regardless of the circumstances? And another person, Stan, inadvertently stumbles across this scene, and faints in shock at seeing George? Did Stan bring something relevant to the scene? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 1682 Registered: 11-2008 |
OK - so George is an ex-circus bear Yes, who has been taken to this place for an individual Yes (A? M? Yes, and human too) to 'hunt' Exactly. Does the individual realise that George is an ex-circus bear? No or does he/she think it to be a wild bear? This Is the future shame linked to people's revulsion at the idea of killing a 'tame' bear? Possibly-ish but there is more to it Is the reason for hunting George rather than a wild bear relevant? Yes Is the individual a poor shot? Irr A dying hunter who wants one last kill, regardless of the circumstances? An interesting idea, but no And another person, Stan, inadvertently stumbles across this scene Yes, and faints in shock at seeing George Yes? Did Stan bring something relevant to the scene? Yes | ||
| Oisin (Oisin)
New member Username: Oisin Post Number: 233 Registered: 12-2008 |
Did Stan bring a mode of transport with him? Motorbike? Scooter? Pedal bike? Skateboard? Skates? Or a tool of some sort, such as a shovel? spade? pitchfork? wheelbarrow? Or some food or drink with him? So the shame is linked to the circumstances of the hunting? Does George actually get killed by our bystander? Does someone else stumble across the scene? Does Stan retell the incident later, leading to Mr. X's shame? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 1683 Registered: 11-2008 |
Did Stan bring a mode of transport with him? Motorbike? This Scooter? This would work as well Pedal bike? Skateboard? Skates? Or a tool of some sort, such as a shovel? spade? pitchfork? wheelbarrow? Or some food or drink with him? No to rest So the shame is linked to the circumstances of the hunting? Yes Does George actually get killed by our bystander? No Does someone else stumble across the scene? No; however, there is another relevant group of people involved Does Stan retell the incident later, leading to Mr. X's shame? Possibly, but there is much more to it | ||
| Oisin (Oisin)
New member Username: Oisin Post Number: 234 Registered: 12-2008 |
Is George's skill linked to the motorbike? Can he ride it? Balance on it? Does Stan fall off his bike, and the bike continue towards George? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 1684 Registered: 11-2008 |
Is George's skill linked to the motorbike? Yes Can he ride it? Yes Balance on it? Irr Does Stan fall off his bike, and the bike continue towards George? Exactly so. | ||
| Oisin (Oisin)
New member Username: Oisin Post Number: 235 Registered: 12-2008 |
Does the bicycle crash into George? Or does George successfully mount it to ride? Does George then crash the motorbike into something? This other group of people - are they involved when George rides the motorbike towards them? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 1685 Registered: 11-2008 |
Does the bicycle crash into George? No Or does George successfully mount it to ride? Yes Does George then crash the motorbike into something? No This other group of people - are they involved when George rides the motorbike towards them? No, their involvement is of a different nature | ||
| Oisin (Oisin)
New member Username: Oisin Post Number: 237 Registered: 12-2008 |
The reason that George was brought instead of a wild bear: are there no wild bears in the area? is the decision to hunt bear by Mr. X a spur-of-the-moment one? are Mr. X and/or the person?/people? who get George drunk? The other group of people relevant - do they find out that Mr. X has hunted George? at the time? later? Are they the ex-owners of George? newspaper reporters? you-tube viewers? Is it Mr X who is shamed? The people who provide George for the hunt? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 1697 Registered: 11-2008 |
The reason that George was brought instead of a wild bear: are there no wild bears in the area? Yope; it is OTRT but there is little more to that is the decision to hunt bear by Mr. X a spur-of-the-moment one? Yes, but beware a FA are Mr. X and/or the person?/people? who get George drunk? No The other group of people relevant - do they find out that Mr. X has hunted George? No, and beware a FA at the time? later? Are they the ex-owners of George? newspaper reporters? you-tube viewers? No to the rest Is it Mr X who is shamed? Very likely The people who provide George for the hunt? Definitely | ||
| Oisin (Oisin)
New member Username: Oisin Post Number: 238 Registered: 12-2008 |
Do we actually know how George died? or are the facts of his death disputed? The FAs - was the desire to hunt not initially expressed by Mr X? He just went along? or it was arranged for him without his express wish? At the scene there are Stan (fainted), Mr. X (hunter)? and one relevant bystander? was this bystander the person who released (or part of the group who released) George? Finally, there is another relevant group of people who were not present, but who found out about the incident? Did George do something on the motorcycle which attracted the attention of this final group of people? Is his sickness relevant here? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 1701 Registered: 11-2008 |
Do we actually know how George died? Not really or are the facts of his death disputed? It is irrelevant how he actually died The FAs - was the desire to hunt not initially expressed by Mr X? Exactly He just went along? or it was arranged for him without his express wish? Spot on. At the scene there are Stan (fainted)Yes, Mr. X (hunter)Yes ? and one relevant bystander No? was this bystander the person who released (or part of the group who released) George? No; let us assume there is no one else present on the scene than George, Stan and X the hunter. Finally, there is another relevant group Yes of people who were not present Yes, but who found out about the incident? Yes Did George do something on the motorcycle which attracted the attention of this final group of people? No Is his sickness relevant here? At this stage, no | ||
| Oisin (Oisin)
New member Username: Oisin Post Number: 239 Registered: 12-2008 |
Is Mr X's reaction to George on the motorcycle relevant? Does he try to shoot George? Go to help Stan? Call out for help? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 1703 Registered: 11-2008 |
Is Mr X's reaction to George on the motorcycle relevant? Essential Does he try to shoot George? No Go to help Stan? No Call out for help? No | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 1137 Registered: 9-2009 |
Does he chase George? Does George have an accident? If so, did Mr. X cause it? Is the group of people tied to an animal rights movement? Is George injured as a consequence of Mr. X's actions? Killed? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 1722 Registered: 11-2008 |
Does he chase George? Literally? No Does George have an accident? No If so, did Mr. X cause it? Is the group of people tied to an animal rights movement? No Is George injured as a consequence of Mr. X's actions? Killed No to both | ||
| Oisin (Oisin)
New member Username: Oisin Post Number: 241 Registered: 12-2008 |
Mr X's reaction: does he contact other people to report the amazing sight? attempt to photograph George? Video him? Is it relevant where George goes on the motorcycle? Does he ride it for long? Ride it to where other people can see it? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 1729 Registered: 11-2008 |
Mr X's reaction: does he contact other people to report the amazing sight? attempt to photograph George? Video him? Neither; however, there is a significant reaction. Is it relevant where George goes on the motorcycle? Yes Does he ride it for long? b{Irr but probably not} Ride it to where other people can see it? Yes | ||
| Oisin (Oisin)
New member Username: Oisin Post Number: 243 Registered: 12-2008 |
So the other relevant group of people: the people who see George when he rides off on his bicycle? Do we need to discover their reaction? Does Mr.X fire his gun? (We know he doesn't try to shoot George, but he might fire it in shock, possibly injuring himself, or Stan) Does Mr.X move from the spot? Does he have transport with him? Perhaps his own motorbike? Does he follow George? Do we need to find out what else happens to Stan? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 1730 Registered: 11-2008 |
So the other relevant group of people: the people who see George when he rides off on his bicycle?No; there are no such people Do we need to discover their reaction? Does Mr.X fire his gun? Yope (We know he doesn't try to shoot George, but he might fire it in shock Yesish to yope, possibly injuring himself Yes, or Stan) No Does Mr.X move from the spot? No Does he have transport with him? Irr Perhaps his own motorbike? Does he follow George? No Do we need to find out what else happens to Stan? No | ||
| Oisin (Oisin)
New member Username: Oisin Post Number: 244 Registered: 12-2008 |
The injury inflicted on Mr.X : is it fatal? or inflict serious injuries? does it occur when he drops his gun accidentally, and it discharges? So it is relevant where George goes; and although he goes where he could be seen, no-one actually does see him? Or they see the motorbike, but not George? Does anyone see George on the bicycle, apart from Mr.X and Stan? Does anyone else see George in the immediate aftermath of the event? Do people discover the strange series of events that lead to Mr. X's injury? or do they only have Stan's (and Mr.X, if he survives) testimony? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 1731 Registered: 11-2008 |
The injury inflicted on Mr.X : is it fatal? No or inflict serious injuries? Assume no does it occur when he drops his gun accidentally, and it discharges? Yes So it is relevant where George goes Yes; and although he goes where he could be seen, no-one actually does see him? No, that's not correct Or they see the motorbike, but not George? Does anyone see George on the bicycle, apart from Mr.X and Stan? No Does anyone else see George in the immediate aftermath of the event? Irr Do people discover the strange series of events that lead to Mr. X's injury? Yes or do they only have Stan's (and Mr.X, if he survives) testimony? | ||
| Oisin (Oisin)
New member Username: Oisin Post Number: 245 Registered: 12-2008 |
Sorry, I'm confused (easily done). You said Is it relevant where George goes on the motorcycle? Yes Ride it to where other people can see it? Yes the people who see George when he rides off on his bicycle? No; there are no such people and although he goes where he could be seen, no-one actually does see him? No, that's not correct Are those replies correct? If so, I will think harder about what that implies. | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 1732 Registered: 11-2008 |
Oisin: When I answered "yes" to "ride it to where other people can see it", it was meant as a possibility (ie that he is not in an enclosed space or something along this way), not that there are other people ACTUALLY seeing him. It really does sound confusing, sorry for that. The only two relevant people actually seeing George on the bike are Stan and Mr X. | ||
| Oisin (Oisin)
New member Username: Oisin Post Number: 246 Registered: 12-2008 |
So, attempt at recap: Mr.X is with at least one other person, when a decision is made to go hunting bears. (Do we need to find out why they decide this? Has Mr. X hunted before? Do we need to find out why he ends up on his own at the critical point of the story?) For reasons to be determined, the person/people with Mr.X release George, an ex-circus bear. Before Mr.X can shoot George, an innocent bystander called Stan rides his motorbike on to the scene, spots George, and faints with the shock. George, to Mr.X's amazement, gets on the motorbike and rides off on it. Mr. X drops his gun, which discharges, injuring him, although not seriously. (A flesh wound, as they say? In the buttocks? arm? leg? hand?) The circumstances behind Mr.X's injury are discovered, causing shame to Mr.X's hunting partners, and to Mr.X himself. The way in which the circumstances become public knowledge has yet to be determined. OK: does Mr.X go to receive treatment for his injury? Is this where the story is made public? Or do others hear the gunshot, and come to find out what has happened? Does George return to the place from which he was released? Does Stan get reunited with his motorbike? And the reason why the people released George to be hunted: had Mr.X been searching for bear for too long, and they knew where George was kept? Did they have any connection with the current owners of George? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 1733 Registered: 11-2008 |
So, attempt at recap: Mr.X is with at least one other person, when a decision is made to go hunting bears. Yope (Do we need to find out why they decide this? Would be helpful Has Mr. X hunted before? Yes Do we need to find out why he ends up on his own at the critical point of the story? No - let us assume it was an usual routine ) For reasons to be determined, the person/people with Mr.X release George, an ex-circus bear. Yes Before Mr.X can shoot George, an innocent bystander called Stan rides his motorbike on to the scene,Yes spots George Yes, and faints with the shock Yes. George, to Mr.X's amazement No, gets on the motorbike and rides off on it. Yes Mr. X drops his gun, which discharges, injuring him, although not seriously. Yes (A flesh wound, as they say? Let us assume this, yes In the buttocks? arm? leg? hand?) Irrelevant; the relevant thing is just the fact he was injured The circumstances behind Mr.X's injury are discovered, causing shame to Mr.X's hunting partners, and to Mr.X himself. Yes The way in which the circumstances become public knowledge has yet to be determined. In fact, they are irrelevant. It is sufficient to know that they somehow leaked to the public. OK: does Mr.X go to receive treatment for his injury? Is this where the story is made public? Or do others hear the gunshot, and come to find out what has happened? Can be either; as said above, this is irrelevant Does George return to the place from which he was released? Irr Does Stan get reunited with his motorbike? Irr And the reason why the people released George to be hunted: had Mr.X been searching for bear for too long, and they knew where George was kept? Noish Did they have any connection with the current owners of George? Let us assume that "they" are his current owners Great questions and little left to be solved. I will not be around for a while, so please be patient. | ||
| Torquemada (Torquemada)
New member Username: Torquemada Post Number: 5 Registered: 1-2010 |
In the hope of clarifying some of the negative responses: Was a decision made by a group to go hunting? Was Mr X involved in making decision? Did he know the whole plan? Part of it? Was the decision to specifically hunt bears? Was Mr.X told that he was hunting bears? Or that he was hunting something else? Did the other members of the group want Mr.X to shoot George? Was there some specific reason for this? Birthday? Some sort of celebration? Convince Mr.X that he could (still?) kill a bear? See for themselves whether he could? Had Mr.X seen George before? If so, did he recognise him? Did he like George? Was he scared of him? Was Mr.X connected to the circus? Did Mr.X work at the circus? With animals? | ||
| Oisin (Oisin)
New member Username: Oisin Post Number: 257 Registered: 12-2008 |
Mr. X was not amazed to see George mount the bicycle? Did he recognise George? Did he drop his gun from the shock of recognition? or from the shock of realising that he might have shot a tame bear? And if Mr.X does have prior knowledge of George, does the group that released George know this? Is the other group's motive for releasing George malicious? do they dislike Mr.X? dislike George? are they hoping to blackmail Mr. X? publically shame him? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2264 Registered: 5-2003 |
RE the financial loss -- Was George valuable? Was someone sued? Paid restitution? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 1734 Registered: 11-2008 |
In the hope of clarifying some of the negative responses: Was a decision made by a group to go hunting? No in the sense that no group went hunting Was Mr X involved in making decision? Noish Did he know the whole plan? No Part of it? Yesish Was the decision to specifically hunt bears? Yes Was Mr.X told that he was hunting bears? Yes Or that he was hunting something else? No Did the other members of the group want Mr.X to shoot George? Yes Was there some specific reason for this? Yes Birthday? Some sort of celebration? Convince Mr.X that he could (still?) kill a bear? See for themselves whether he could? But none of these Had Mr.X seen George before? No If so, did he recognise him? So, no Did he like George? Irr Was he scared of him? No Was Mr.X connected to the circus? No Did Mr.X work at the circus? No With animals? No Mr. X was not amazed to see George mount the bicycle? On the contrary Did he recognise George? No Did he drop his gun from the shock Yes of recognition? but not this or from the shock of realising that he might have shot a tame bear? And neither this And if Mr.X does have prior knowledge of George, does the group that released George know this? Is the other group's motive for releasing George malicious? No do they dislike Mr.X? No dislike George? No are they hoping to blackmail Mr. X? No publically shame him? No RE the financial loss -- Was George valuable? No Was someone sued? Possibly, but this is not the main cause of the financial loss Paid restitution? Possibly, but this is not the main cause of the financial loss | ||
| Torquemada (Torquemada)
New member Username: Torquemada Post Number: 57 Registered: 1-2010 |
So a group arrange for Mr X to go hunting for bears. They arrange for George to be brought out, without Mr X's knowledge, because they want him to kill George. Stan sees George, passes out, and crashes his motorbike, which George starts to ride. Mr X is surprised to see George ride the motorbike, and drops his gun in shock, injuring himself. All correct? Do "the group" want Mr X to kill George for his own benefit? For George's? For theirs? Is this some sort of insurance scam? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 1735 Registered: 11-2008 |
So a group arrange for Mr X to go hunting for bears. They arrange for George to be brought out, without Mr X's knowledge, because they want him to kill George. Stan sees George, passes out, and crashes his motorbike, which George starts to ride. Mr X is surprised to see George ride the motorbike, and drops his gun in shock, injuring himself. All correct? So far, absolutely. Do "the group" want Mr X to kill George for his own benefit? Yes For George's? For theirs? But mostly this Is this some sort of insurance scam? No By the way, I like your nick very much :-)) | ||
| Torquemada (Torquemada)
New member Username: Torquemada Post Number: 59 Registered: 1-2010 |
Thanks. It seemed an appropriate choice. :o) Would "the group" (apart from Mr X) have got the same benefit if they'd killed George themselves? If George had died naturally? If someone other than Mr X had shot him? If Mr X had run him over? If George had escaped and died in some sort of freak accident involving an albatross? Is the expected benefit financial? Emotional? Would George have got the same benefit from shooting a different bear? From shooting a different animal altogether, like a deer? From running George over? Would he have got the same benefit if he only thought he'd killed George? Is the expected benefit financial? Emotional? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2276 Registered: 5-2003 |
Is Mr X a poor hunter (or clumsy), and his friends want to make things easy for him, so they release George, whom they assume is an easy mark? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 1738 Registered: 11-2008 |
Thanks. It seemed an appropriate choice. :o) Would "the group" (apart from Mr X) have got the same benefit if they'd killed George themselves? No If George had died naturally? No If someone other than Mr X had shot him? Assume no If Mr X had run him over? No If George had escaped and died in some sort of freak accident involving an albatross? No Is the expected benefit financial? This Emotional? Would George have got the same benefit from shooting a different bear? You mean Mr. X? If so, yes From shooting a different animal altogether, like a deer? No From running George over? No Would he have got the same benefit if he only thought he'd killed George? Probably not Is the expected benefit financial? Emotional? This Is Mr X a poor hunter (or clumsy), and his friends want to make things easy for him, so they release George, whom they assume is an easy mark? Nice thinking, but No | ||
| Torquemada (Torquemada)
New member Username: Torquemada Post Number: 64 Registered: 1-2010 |
Yes, I did mean Mr X. Sorry about that. I keep finding it confusing that the bear has a name, but not the hunter. Can we call him Elmer instead? So did Mr X (or Elmer) benefit emotionally in such a way that the bear's actual death, rather than just his perception of it, was important? Was it to do with seeing the bear die? Being able to bag a bearskin to put by his fire? Did he, by any chance, offer to pay "the group" if they found him a bear he could hunt and kill? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 1739 Registered: 11-2008 |
Yes, I did mean Mr X. Sorry about that. I keep finding it confusing that the bear has a name, but not the hunter. Can we call him Elmer instead? OK, let him be Elmer then. So did Mr X (or Elmer) benefit emotionally in such a way that the bear's actual death, rather than just his perception of it, was important? Yesish Was it to do with seeing the bear die? No Being able to bag a bearskin to put by his fire? This is very close. Let us say that, as a hunter, he would just be happy to have shot (and killed) a bear. Did he, by any chance, offer to pay "the group" if they found him a bear he could hunt and kill? Not exactly but very much OTRT | ||
| Torquemada (Torquemada)
New member Username: Torquemada Post Number: 70 Registered: 1-2010 |
Had Elmer ever shot a bear before? Had he shot any other animal? Did he intend to in future? Were "the group" hunters? Was this some sort of initiation? Was there a bet involved? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 1740 Registered: 11-2008 |
Had Elmer ever shot a bear before? Assume no Had he shot any other animal? Yes Did he intend to in future? Yes Were "the group" hunters? Yes Was this some sort of initiation? No Was there a bet involved? No | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 2290 Registered: 5-2003 |
Is Elmer on safari? And the group runs it? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 1744 Registered: 11-2008 |
Is Elmer on safari? And the group runs it? Neither but OTRT | ||
| Torquemada (Torquemada)
New member Username: Torquemada Post Number: 111 Registered: 1-2010 |
Did Elmer, in conversation with the hunters, express a desire to hunt a bear? Did he ask them to arrange this? Or did they suggest it? Did he offer them money just for a hunt, and trust that he'd find some bears? Or was the payment contingent on the appearance of a bear? Or even on him killing a bear? Was the money lost by the group? By Elmer? The circus?? The bike rider??? George???? Did the group have the idea of making some money out of a sick and available bear? Or did they only come up with the idea once the hunt had been suggested? Relevant? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 1779 Registered: 11-2008 |
Did Elmer, in conversation with the hunters, express a desire to hunt a bear? No Did he ask them to arrange this? No Or did they suggest it? Yes Did he offer them money just for a hunt Yes, and trust that he'd find some bears? No Or was the payment contingent on the appearance of a bear? No Or even on him killing a bear? No Was the money lost by the group? Yes By Elmer? The circus?? The bike rider??? George???? No to rest Did the group have the idea of making some money out of a sick and available bear? Exactly so Or did they only come up with the idea once the hunt had been suggested? A hunt was already pre-arranged when they came up with the idea Relevant? Yes | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 1335 Registered: 9-2009 |
Was the group going to get a stake in whatever Elmer shot? Is Elmer famous? Such that a bear shot by him would be worth a lot? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 1795 Registered: 11-2008 |
Was the group going to get a stake in whatever Elmer shot? DOYD of stake Is Elmer famous? Irr, probably not Such that a bear shot by him would be worth a lot? No | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 1350 Registered: 9-2009 |
But they were getting more money if Elmer shot something? Or specifically if he shot a bear? Or were they hoping to profit in some other way from the killing of George? | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 1821 Registered: 11-2008 |
But they were getting more money if Elmer shot something? Probably but not so much relevant Or specifically if he shot a bear? Yes - or at least they were hoping that they would Or were they hoping to profit in some other way from the killing of George? No, just this Almost there - if you post a short summary, I will post a Spoyler. | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 1405 Registered: 9-2009 |
Elmer, a hunter, has arranged to pay a group of other hunters to take him out on a hunt. The group owns and old circus bear, George, and suggest to Elmer that they go bear hunting. In secret, they plan on assuring the success of the hunt by releasing George, hoping that Elmer will pay them handsomely after the hunt has turned out to be such a great success. Everything goes as planned at first, the hunters release George at the hunting grounds, and Elmer spots him. However at this time, a bystander enters the scene riding a motorcycle. When he sees the bear, he is so shocked that he passes out and falls from the vehicle. George, who rode motorcycles in the circus in his youth, remembers his old skill, mounts the bike and rides away. Elmer is so shocked by this turn of events that he drops his weapon, which discharges and injures him. the group of hunters never get any money for the phony hunt, and when the scandalous circumstances surrounding the event become known, all invovled are greatly shamed. (all correct? Are they also fined or otherwise punished?) Great puzzle! | ||
| Alhucema (Alhucema)
New member Username: Alhucema Post Number: 1828 Registered: 11-2008 |
Elmer, a hunter, has arranged to pay a group of other hunters to take him out on a hunt. The group owns and old circus bear, George, and suggest to Elmer that they go bear hunting. In secret, they plan on assuring the success of the hunt by releasing George, hoping that Elmer will pay them handsomely after the hunt has turned out to be such a great success. Everything goes as planned at first, the hunters release George at the hunting grounds, and Elmer spots him. However at this time, a bystander enters the scene riding a motorcycle. When he sees the bear, he is so shocked that he passes out and falls from the vehicle. George, who rode motorcycles in the circus in his youth, remembers his old skill, mounts the bike and rides away. Elmer is so shocked by this turn of events that he drops his weapon, which discharges and injures him. the group of hunters never get any money for the phony hunt, and when the scandalous circumstances surrounding the event become known, all invovled are greatly shamed. (all correct? Are they also fined or otherwise punished?) Spot on. They do not need more punishment, the public shame is more than sufficient. This is such a comprehensive *************SPOILER**************** that I have almost nothing to add. The hunters live in one village while Elmer comes from the city. They happened to acquire George when a circus stopped in their village and called the local vet to treat their sick bear. The vet found out that the bear's condition was hopeless and proposed to put him to sleep. However, the hunters saw a chance of earning some extra money.... and you wrote the rest of the story. Oh, and a detail - Elmer does not spot George until the latter is already riding the bike, which makes him drop the gun :-)) Thank you, Galfisk, for the excellent summary, I am glad you liked the puzzle. And thanks everyone for participating. |
