| Author | Message | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2026 Registered: 1-2001 |
One afternoon, Stan is sitting at a table alone when Mr. Doe enters and sits down at the table with Stan. Mr. Doe then puts 3 styrofoam cups on the table in front of himself, while telling Stan that he is tired of coffee getting spilled. As Stan watches, Mr. Doe slides one of the cups across the table toward Stan and says, "If you want to keep your job, make sure no more coffee gets spilled." Is Mr. Doe simply a picky person, or is something else going on? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3198 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is something else going on? Are any of the cups filled with coffee? With any other liquid? Is Mr. Doe Stan's employer? Does Stan's job involve coffee? Food? Drinks? Does he work at a cafe? Has coffee been spilled in the past? If so, on the floor? On a table? A counter? Other people? On himself? On Mr. Doe? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2028 Registered: 1-2001 |
Is something else going on? Why of course! Are any of the cups filled with coffee? Yes, 1 of them is With any other liquid? No Is Mr. Doe Stan's employer? Yes Does Stan's job involve coffee? No Food? Yes Drinks? Yes, to a lesser degree Does he work at a cafe? No Has coffee been spilled in the past? This is a great question, yet very difficult to answer at this point. The most direct answer is YES, but at this point this answer only applies when viewing the situation through a certain point of view. So...exploration is needed here. If so, on the floor? On a table? A counter? Other people? On himself? On Mr. Doe? No to all of these | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3204 Registered: 4-2010 |
Does Stan work at a restaurant? On the coffee point...is Mr. Doe testing Stan? Has coffee been spilled in the past...by others? By Stan? By Mr. Doe? Does "coffee being spilled" mean "liquid coffee ends up out of the cup and onto a surface"? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2030 Registered: 1-2001 |
Does Stan work at a restaurant? Yes On the coffee point...is Mr. Doe testing Stan? No, I wouldn't call it a "test", but pursue this point Has coffee been spilled in the past...by others? Yes, keeping the previous disclaimer in mind (and see below) By Stan? No By Mr. Doe? No Does "coffee being spilled" mean "liquid coffee ends up out of the cup and onto a surface"? Ahh...NO indeed it does not - great question! | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3208 Registered: 4-2010 |
Coffee: liquid coffee? Ground coffee? Coffee beans? Is the cup filled with liquid coffee? Relevant? Does Mr. Doe want Stan to keep his job? Is he neutral on the point? Does he want to make sure Stan is the best candidate? Is Stan a waiter? Does he work in the kitchen? At the bar? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2031 Registered: 1-2001 |
Coffee: liquid coffee? Yes AND No...explore Ground coffee? Coffee beans? No to both Is the cup filled with liquid coffee? Yes Relevant? Sure Does Mr. Doe want Stan to keep his job? Is he neutral on the point? Does he want to make sure Stan is the best candidate? Mostly this last one - let's say that Mr. Doe wants to make sure Stan will do the job that Mr. Doe has hired him to do Is Stan a waiter? Does he work in the kitchen? At the bar? None of these | ||
| Mattiel (Mattiel)
New member Username: Mattiel Post Number: 199 Registered: 6-2005 |
Is there any communication code between Mr. Doe and Stan which is based on the use of styrofoams cups? Relevant the fact that they are 3, and that only one is full? Relvant which one is full? The one that Mr. Doe slides towards Stan or one of the two others? Is "coffee being spilled" some coded expression to indicate something illegal? Something happening in their restaurant but not connected to the official business? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2032 Registered: 1-2001 |
Slight error in last post - Stan is not a waiter and does not work at the bar, but to a small degree he does work in the kitchen. | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2033 Registered: 1-2001 |
Is there any communication code between Mr. Doe and Stan which is based on the use of styrofoams cups? You're O(n) T(he) R(ight) T(rack) in that the cups are being used to communicate something, but there isn't really a "code" Relevant the fact that they are 3, and that only one is full? Yes Relvant which one is full? The one that Mr. Doe slides towards Stan or one of the two others? Yes it is relevant, and Mr. Doe does slide the cup containing coffee toward Stan. Proceed carefully now, for there is a slight FA which may be lurking. Is "coffee being spilled" some coded expression to indicate something illegal? Something happening in their restaurant but not connected to the official business? I think the answer to both of these is "no", but could you clarify? | ||
| Mattiel (Mattiel)
New member Username: Mattiel Post Number: 201 Registered: 6-2005 |
Is a similar situation (Mr. Doe sits and put x cups on a table, sliding some of them towards Stan) already happened in the past? Relevant how many times, and with how many cups? If Mr. Doe had been happy with Stan's work, would he still put the same number/configuration of cups on the table? Concerning the previous post, I meant the following: Is "coffee being spilled" some expression to indicate, say, gambling in the kitchen? Or money laundering, etc...? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3211 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is the coffee in the cup meant to be drunk? Is Mr. Doe using the coffee cup to make a point? Emphasize a point? Is anything illegal going on? Is Stan a janitor? A cook? | ||
| Woodworm (Woodworm)
New member Username: Woodworm Post Number: 1810 Registered: 3-2006 |
[With the Stella awards still fresh in my mind] Is this anything to do with the case of the McDonalds litigation case where someone spilt scalding coffee over herself? Is Stan using the 'spilt coffee' as a metaphor? Is the phrase 'spill the beans' relevant at all? Is the game of 'find the lady' relevant? Are the three cups stacked one inside the other? Or are they side by side? Are the other two cups empty? Is the famous 'three doors' puzzle relevant (or some variant thereof)? Is Mr Doe a waitron (gotta love that word) in a fast-food joint? Would the puzzle work in a swanky Michelin-starred restaurant? Would Mr D think that Stan was being intimidating? Is Stan a mafioso of sorts? When he slides the cup, is the configuration of cups relevant? For instance, does he slide the middle cup? The left one? The right one? Are all the cups the same size? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2034 Registered: 1-2001 |
Is a similar situation (Mr. Doe sits and put x cups on a table, sliding some of them towards Stan) already happened in the past? No - good q Relevant how many times, and with how many cups? This is the first time it's been done, and Mr. Doe could have used more cups if he'd wanted to If Mr. Doe had been happy with Stan's workFA, would he still put the same number/configuration of cups on the table? No, if Mr. Doe had been completely happy he wouldn't have used the cups, but the FA needs to be cleared up... Concerning the previous post, I meant the following: Is "coffee being spilled" some expression to indicate, say, gambling in the kitchen? Or money laundering, etc...? Ok, that's what I thought. No, it does not indicate this kind of thing but the same principle applies. Is the coffee in the cup meant to be drunk? No, and it could have been another drink, I just like coffee so that's why I used it. Is Mr. Doe using the coffee cup to make a point? Yes, indeed! Good q! Emphasize a point? Yes, indeed! Is anything illegal going on? Yes Is Stan a janitor? A cook? Neither | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2035 Registered: 1-2001 |
[With the Stella awards still fresh in my mind] Is this anything to do with the case of the McDonalds litigation case where someone spilt scalding coffee over herself? No, but what a crazy thing that was... Is Stan using the 'spilt coffee' as a metaphor? Yes Is the phrase 'spill the beans' relevant at all? No Is the game of 'find the lady' relevant? No Are the three cups stacked one inside the other? No Or are they side by side? Yes Are the other two cups empty? Yes Is the famous 'three doors' puzzle relevant (or some variant thereof)? No Is Mr Doe a waitron (gotta love that word) in a fast-food joint? No Would the puzzle work in a swanky Michelin-starred restaurant? No, it wouldn't, good q Would Mr D think that Stan was being intimidating? No Is Stan a mafioso of sorts? No When he slides the cup, is the configuration of cups relevant? No For instance, does he slide the middle cup? The left one? The right one? It does not matter Are all the cups the same size? Yes | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3213 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is the "coffee" a metaphor? The "spilling"? The illegal thing...is death involved? Money? Is the coffee representative of blood? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2036 Registered: 1-2001 |
Is the "coffee" a metaphor? Yes, as is...The "spilling"? also, yes The illegal thing...is death involved? No Money? Yes Is the coffee representative of blood? No | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3215 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is the illegal thing theft? Blackmail? Embezzlement? Money laundering? Counterfeiting? Is the coffee spilling representative of evidence getting out? Someone "squealing"? | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 3049 Registered: 9-2009 |
Is Mr. Doe a picky person? Is there coffee in the styrofoam cups? Will there be? Is there something else in them? Do they all contain the same thing? Was the coffee spilled by Mr. Doe? By Stan? By someone else? Relevant what the coffee was spilled on? | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 3050 Registered: 9-2009 |
I forgot about my post and pressed "post" a few hours late. | ||
| Mattiel (Mattiel)
New member Username: Mattiel Post Number: 203 Registered: 6-2005 |
One thing is not clear to me: I asked if it's relevant that the cups are 3 and one is filled and you answered yes, and then you say that Mr Doe could have used more cups if he wanted. What is relevant, the fact that there are 3 cups? Or the fact that only one is filled? Concerning the previous FA, it is false to assume that Mr Doe is not happy with Stan's job? Is he just warning him for the future? Is coffee a metaphore for money? And spilling a metaphore for stealing? Maybe stealing money from the restaurant cash desk? Does Stan work as a: cleaner? Security staff? Food/drinks supplier? | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 2777 Registered: 1-2007 |
Fascinating puzzle this.... Is Stan in charge of hygiene? Is the restaurant due an inspection by the health department? | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1831 Registered: 7-2009 |
Was there ever coffee in the empty cups? If so, did someone drink the coffee out of them? Or was the coffee in them poured into the third cup (the full one)? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2037 Registered: 1-2001 |
Is the illegal thing theft? Yes Blackmail? Embezzlement? Money laundering? Counterfeiting? No to these Is the coffee spilling representative of evidence getting out? Someone "squealing"? No Galfisk, I'll answer your q's because after reading these it occurred to me that I had not fully answered a previous one Is Mr. Doe a picky person? Perhaps, but not relevant here Is there coffee in the styrofoam cups? Only in 1 Will there be? No Is there something else in them? Do they all contain the same thing? Coffee in 1 of them, others empty Was the coffee spilled by Mr. Doe? Good q (and I think I didn't fully answer this earlier) - no, THE coffee wasn't, but Mr. Doe did spill coffee By Stan? No, but...By someone else? Yes Relevant what the coffee was spilled on? Which coffee? One thing is not clear to me: I asked if it's relevant that the cups are 3 and one is filled and you answered yes, and then you say that Mr Doe could have used more cups if he wanted. What is relevant, the fact that there are 3 cups? Or the fact that only one is filled? Yes, that only one is filled Concerning the previous FA, it is false to assume that Mr Doe is not happy with Stan's job? Yes Is he just warning him for the future? Yes, precisely Is coffee a metaphore for money? Yes And spilling a metaphore for stealing? Yes Maybe stealing money from the restaurant yes cash desk? but not this Does Stan work as a: cleaner? Security staff? Food/drinks supplier? None of these | ||
| It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
New member Username: It_so_happened Post Number: 500 Registered: 5-2010 |
Has Stan been working there before? Or did he just get a job? Is Stan expected to do anything with the cup containing coffee? "Money" means cash? Or product (such as food?) Or something else? Method of stealing relevant? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2038 Registered: 1-2001 |
Fascinating puzzle this....Thanks, hope you enjoy it! Is Stan in charge of hygiene? Is the restaurant due an inspection by the health department? No to both Was there ever coffee in the empty cups? No If so, did someone drink the coffee out of them? Or was the coffee in them poured into the third cup (the full one)? So no to these Has Stan been working there before? Before what? Next answer may help... Or did he just get a job? Yes, Stan was recently hired Is Stan expected to do anything with the cup containing coffee? No "Money" means cash? Yes Or product (such as food?) No Or something else? No, it refers to cash Method of stealing relevant? Yes | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3231 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is the money stolen from the cash register? From the bank deposits? Could the theft be considered embezzling? Does the stolen money go to Mr. Doe? To someone else? Is Mr. Doe making sure that he gets all his money? So "no coffee being spilled" means that none of the stolen money goes to another person? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2040 Registered: 1-2001 |
Is the money stolen from the cash register? No From the bank deposits? No Could the theft be considered embezzling? Yes, I suppose Does the stolen money go to Mr. Doe? No To someone else? Yes Is Mr. Doe making sure that he gets all his money? Yes, but... So "no coffee being spilled" means that none of the stolen money goes to another person? Mr. Doe does not expect to receive any stolen money - is this what you are asking? | ||
| Mattiel (Mattiel)
New member Username: Mattiel Post Number: 207 Registered: 6-2005 |
Let's try a short recap. Mr. Doe has just hired Stan for a certain position (not found out yet) in his restaurant. He warns Stan that he wants no "coffee spilling" anymore, and does this by pushing the only filled cup of coffee on a table towards Stan. "Spilling coffee" is a metaphore to indicate "stealing money". We know that in the past some other person has "spilled coffee", but Stan never did that. Now the questions: Did Mr Doe himself ever spill coffee, in the sense of stealing money from his own restaurant? Is he actually the owner of the restaurant, or just the responsible person? Was Stan hired as an accountant? Or is his position related in anyway with the restaurant accounting/money flow? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2043 Registered: 1-2001 |
Let's try a short recap. Always wise Mr. Doe has just hired Stan for a certain position (not found out yet) in his restaurant. Correct He warns Stan that he wants no "coffee spilling" anymore, Yes and does this by pushing the only filled cup of coffee on a table towards Stan. Mostly correct, only one minor false assumption here that may help unlock some other aspects "Spilling coffee" is a metaphore to indicate "stealing money". Yes We know that in the past some other person has "spilled coffee", but Stan never did that. Correct Now the questions: Did Mr Doe himself ever spill coffee, in the sense of stealing money from his own restaurant? No Is he actually the owner of the restaurant Yes, or just the responsible person? He is 1 of the responsible people - good q Was Stan hired as an accountant? Not strictly speaking, however...Or is his position related in anyway with the restaurant accounting/money flow? Yes | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3239 Registered: 4-2010 |
Does the cash theft consist of cheating on taxes? Does Mr. Doe want the illegal stuff to go on? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2044 Registered: 1-2001 |
Does the cash theft consist of cheating on taxes? no Does Mr. Doe want the illegal stuff to go on? No! | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3240 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did people who previously held Stan's position commit theft? People under Stan? People over Stan? Is Mr. Doe using the coffee metaphor so that none of the criminals will understand? Because he fears what might happen if they find out? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2045 Registered: 1-2001 |
Did people who previously held Stan's position commit theft? No, qood question because...People under Stan? Yes People over Stan? No Is Mr. Doe using the coffee metaphor so that none of the criminals will understand? Not relevant Because he fears what might happen if they find out? No | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3241 Registered: 4-2010 |
So Mr. Doe is telling Stan that he wants him to stop the workers under him from stealing money? And this has been an ongoing problem? What's left to find out? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2046 Registered: 1-2001 |
So Mr. Doe is telling Stan that he wants him to stop the workers under him from stealing money? And this has been an ongoing problem? Yes What's left to find out? The method of stealing and why the coffee cup metaphor applies to it | ||
| It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
New member Username: It_so_happened Post Number: 504 Registered: 5-2010 |
Trying to figure out this FA: There are three cups? On a table? And only one of them has coffe in it? Is it actually full of coffee or is there only some coffee in it? And he "slides" it, which means he pushes it with his hands? Towards Stan? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2048 Registered: 1-2001 |
Trying to figure out this FA: There are three cups? Yes On a table? Yes And only one of them has coffee in it? Yes Is it actually full of coffee Yes, however...or is there only some coffee in it? ...this is the case as well, at one point (you've cleared up one of the FA's, good job!) And he "slides" it, which means he pushes it with his hands? Yes Towards Stan? Yes | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3243 Registered: 4-2010 |
Does coffee spill out of the cup when Mr. Doe slides it to Stan? | ||
| Mattiel (Mattiel)
New member Username: Mattiel Post Number: 209 Registered: 6-2005 |
Does Mr. Doe let some coffee spills out of the cup on purpose to emphasize his warning to Stan? Is the stolen money concealed somehow in coffee "containers"? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2049 Registered: 1-2001 |
Does coffee spill out of the cup when Mr. Doe slides it to Stan? Yes Does Mr. Doe let some coffee spills out of the cup on purpose yes to emphasize his warning to Stan? This is not the primary purpose for his action but keep exploring Is the stolen money concealed somehow in coffee "containers"? No | ||
| It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
New member Username: It_so_happened Post Number: 508 Registered: 5-2010 |
Is he demonstrating the means by which money is stolen? Do they steal: directly from the restaurant? from customers? from the transaction between the two? do they steal tips? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2050 Registered: 1-2001 |
Is he demonstrating the means by which money is stolen? Yes Do they steal: directly from the restaurant? Yes from customers? No from the transaction between the two? Yes do they steal tips? No | ||
| It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
New member Username: It_so_happened Post Number: 509 Registered: 5-2010 |
So they pocket some of the money before putting it in the registers, perhaps? And the coffee demonstrates that, as a customer is giving the money to the restaurant, money is "spilling out", i.e. being stolen? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2052 Registered: 1-2001 |
So they pocket some of the money before putting it in the registers, perhaps? Yes And the coffee demonstrates that, as a customer is giving the money to the restaurant, money is "spilling out", i.e. being stolen? Yes! Now before we close it out, can anyone identify the exact nature of the business, and why Mr. Doe didn't simply use 1 cup to make his point? BONUS HINT: One of the names used in the story is a clue in itself | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3246 Registered: 4-2010 |
Was the theft occuring at all registers? Just one? Out of three registers? And Mr. Doe was showing which one the problem was at? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2054 Registered: 1-2001 |
Was the theft occuring at all no registers? FA Just one? Yes, but not a register Out of three yes, or more registers? Still FA And Mr. Doe was showing which one the problem was at? No - Mr. Doe could not show this because...? On the right track, for sure... | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3249 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did Mr. Doe know exactly where the money was being stolen from? Is the customers' method of payment relevant? Did they always pay cash? Was the cash handed over at the registers? Left on the table? | ||
| Noel (Noel)
New member Username: Noel Post Number: 1832 Registered: 7-2009 |
Is the theft only occurring by way of one form of payment? Such as only cash customers? Because it's impossible to skim off the top of a credit card or check payment? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2055 Registered: 1-2001 |
Did Mr. Doe know exactly where the money was being stolen from? No! Good q! Is the customers' method of payment relevant? Yes Did they always pay cash? Yes, at least the customers that Mr. Doe was concerned with Was the cash handed over at the registers? NO Left on the table? NO Is the theft only occurring by way of one form of payment? Yes Such as only cash customers? Yes Because it's impossible to skim off the top of a credit card or check payment? The theft that Mr. Doe was concerned about was cash theft, not related to checks or credit cards - good q | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3250 Registered: 4-2010 |
Was the cash handed from the customer to the waiter? Then from waiter to cash register? Would the waiters be the ones stealing the money? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2056 Registered: 1-2001 |
Was the cash handed from the customer yes, but not... to the waiter? no, FA Then from waiter no to cash register? Eventually, yes Would the waiters no, not waiters be the ones stealing the money? Yes | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 3453 Registered: 5-2003 |
Was Stan one of the waiters, and has now been promoted to his current position? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2058 Registered: 1-2001 |
Was Stan one of the waiters (FA), and has now been promoted to his current position? No, Stan has been recently hired | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3251 Registered: 4-2010 |
Are there waiters in this restaurant? Chefs? Is this a fast-food restaurant? Would the people behind the counter be the thieves? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2059 Registered: 1-2001 |
Are there waiters in this restaurant? No Chefs? Yes, I suppose technically they are called this Is this a fast-food restaurant? Yes, a certain kind Would the people behind the counter be the thieves? No Good q's! | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3254 Registered: 4-2010 |
Do customers pay before they get their food? After? Do the thieves prepare the food? Assist the customer? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2060 Registered: 1-2001 |
Do customers pay before they get their food? Yes After? No Do the thieves prepare the food? No, they... Assist the customer?Yes, this, and... | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3255 Registered: 4-2010 |
Do the thieves get the money from the customer? To take to the cash register? But they pocket some of the money in transit? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2062 Registered: 1-2001 |
Do the thieves get the money from the customer? Yes To take to the cash register? No, they don't do this But they pocket some of the money in transit? Yes, this is the form of theft | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3257 Registered: 4-2010 |
Are the thieves supposed to take all the money to someone? Somewhere? Does the money eventually end up in the cash register? | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 2778 Registered: 1-2007 |
Is this a drive thru? Are the thieves not relaying all of their orders and pocketing some cash? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2063 Registered: 1-2001 |
Are the thieves supposed to take all the money to someone? Yes, and Somewhere? Yes Does the money eventually end up in the cash register? Some of it may end up there Is this a drive thru? No Are the thieves not relaying all of their orders and pocketing some cash? Yes | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3266 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is all the money supposed to end up at the cash register? Is this a drive-in restaurant (like Sonic)? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2065 Registered: 1-2001 |
Is all the money supposed to end up at the cash register? No, not specifically Is this a drive-in restaurant (like Sonic)? No | ||
| It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
New member Username: It_so_happened Post Number: 514 Registered: 5-2010 |
Is the restaurant in a relevant time period? If so, list of centuries/decades? Is it in a relevant geographical location? If so, list of continents? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2066 Registered: 1-2001 |
Is the restaurant in a relevant time period? If it helps to know, yes... If so, list of centuries/decades? As far as I know, this kind of restaurant has existed since the 1970's Is it in a relevant geographical location? No, doesn't have to be, this kind of restaurant exists all over the U.S.A. If so, list of continents? At least in North America, possibly in other countries but I do not know that for sure | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3279 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is it a specific chain of restaurants? A McDonald's? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2070 Registered: 1-2001 |
Is it a specific chain of restaurants? No, not a chain, but a category A McDonald's? No, not this kind of restaurant | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2071 Registered: 1-2001 |
TWO BONUS HINTS: There is still something to be discovered about what Mr. Doe did with the cups. This will help greatly in discovering the kind of restaurant. And don't forget, one of the names in the puzzle is a direct clue to the type of business. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3284 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is it relevant: That Mr. Doe placed the cups directly in front of himself? That he slid one over? Did he do something with the cups after leaving the table? Throw them out? Leave them on the table? Take them with him? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2072 Registered: 1-2001 |
Is it relevant: That Mr. Doe placed the cups directly in front of himself? No - he could have put them anywhere on the table That he slid one over? This is part of the relevant action, yes Did he do something with the cups after leaving the table? Throw them out? Leave them on the table? Take them with him? Irrelevant - all the relevant action took place from the time Mr. Doe sat down and when he slid the cup over to Stan Great exploring, just a little further... | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3287 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did he put the cups down one at a time? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2074 Registered: 1-2001 |
Did he put the cups down one at a time? He could have, or could have set them down all at once...the relevant action happened after this | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3288 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did the relevant take place before the cup was slid over? After? Or was that the relevant actio? Is the relevant name "Stan"? "Mr. Doe"? Is "John Doe" relevant? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2076 Registered: 1-2001 |
Did the relevant take place before the cup was slid over? Yes! After? No Or was that the relevant action? To clarify, there was a relevant action that took place between the time Mr. Doe put the cups on the table and when he slid the cup containing coffee toward Stan Is the relevant name "Stan"? No "Mr. Doe"? Yes Is "John Doe" relevant? No | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3290 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is the statement that Mr. Doe is tired of coffee spillage relevant? Or is the action a physical action? Is it done with the cups? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2077 Registered: 1-2001 |
Is the statement that Mr. Doe is tired of coffee spillage relevant? Yes, but I think the extent of this relevance has been discovered in that it is a metaphor for the type of theft that is occurring. Or is the action a physical action? Yes, there is an additional action which remains undiscovered Is it done with the cups? Yes! | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3292 Registered: 4-2010 |
Are any of the cups moved other than the one? Is the action done with one cup? Two? Three? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2079 Registered: 1-2001 |
Are any of the cups moved other than the one? Yes! Is the action done with one cup? Two? Three? All 3 cups! | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3294 Registered: 4-2010 |
Are the cups shuffled around after being placed on the table? Are they moved towards Stan? Towards Mr. Doe? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2081 Registered: 1-2001 |
Are the cups shuffled around after being placed on the table? Yes! Are they moved towards Stan? Towards Mr. Doe? Likely, but could have been moved in any direction (the "shuffling" is the relevant part) | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3296 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is the intent of the shuffling to show that something is unknown? Like the identity of the culprits? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2083 Registered: 1-2001 |
Is the intent of the shuffling to show that something is unknown? No, the intent of the shuffling is to demonstrate an action that is known (and has already been revealed in the line of questions) Like the identity of the culprits? No, the shuffling is not done in an attempt to identify someone (see previous answer), but to communicate a message to Stan (as with the other action) | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3298 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is the shuffling to communicate the method of theft? The "shuffling" of money from hand to hand? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2084 Registered: 1-2001 |
Is the shuffling to communicate the method of theft? Yes The "shuffling" no of money from hand to hand? No, this kind of theft is not occurring (refer back to Mr. Doe's statement to Stan) | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3300 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is coffee spilled when the cups are shuffled? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2087 Registered: 1-2001 |
Is coffee spilled when the cups are shuffled? Yes! Good q! | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2088 Registered: 1-2001 |
RECAP: Stan works at a restaurant, and Mr. Doe is his employer. Stan is a new employee, and Mr. Doe tells Stan that if he (Stan) wants to keep his job, he needs to make sure that no coffee gets spilled. While saying this, Mr. Doe puts 3 cups on the table (1 full of coffee, 2 empty), and shuffles them around causing some coffee to spill out. He then passes the cup containing coffee to Stan, allowing more coffee to spill out. This is done to provide an example to Stan of how theft is occurring at the restaurant - a type of restaurant that does not have waiters, nor a drive thru, and customers must pay for their food prior to receiving it. Stan is not an accountant, but is partially responsible for the handling of money for the business. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3302 Registered: 4-2010 |
So, let me try and recap... Mr. Doe has noticed a trend of theft in his restaurant. The theft is orchestrated by certain employees who are supposed to take money from the customer from their money orders and take it somewhere, but pocket some of the cash instead. Mr. Doe wants the newly-hired Stan, whom the thieving employees are under, to stop the thefts. To communicate this, he places three Styrofoam coffee cups on the table, shuffles them around (spilling coffee in the process), and slides one over to him, and states what is said in the puzzle statement, "spilling coffee" being a metaphor for the theft. This good? What's left to find out? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2089 Registered: 1-2001 |
So, let me try and recap...Great minds think alike! Mr. Doe has noticed a trend of theft in his restaurant. Yes The theft is orchestrated by certain yes employees FA who are supposed to take money from the customer from their money orders and take it somewhere, but pocket some of the cash instead. Yes Mr. Doe wants the newly-hired Stan, whom the thieving yes employees FA are under, to stop the thefts. Yes To communicate this, he places three Styrofoam coffee cups on the table, shuffles them around (spilling coffee in the process), and slides one over to him, and states what is said in the puzzle statement, "spilling coffee" being a metaphor for the theft. Yes This good? You are almost completely accurate, merely a small FA that can be cured with the simply removal of a letter What's left to find out? The nature of the business, and why the coffee cup demonstration is so accurate | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3303 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is it only one employee who's stealing the money? Is the employee performing a sort of "shuffle" in stealing the money? When he steals the money, does he have other money with him? i.e. He takes the customer's money, drops it in his pocket, then takes out other money that was a) in the same pocket or b) in a different pocket, then passes that along? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2091 Registered: 1-2001 |
Is it only one employee who's stealing the money? Exactly! Is the employee performing a sort of "shuffle" in stealing the money? Yes, but not immediately at the point of theft When he steals the money, does he have other money with him? No, I don't think so (see next answers) i.e. He takes the customer's money, Yes, he does this drops it in his pocket, Yes, at some point, but likely not upon taking it from the customer then takes out other money that was a) in the same pocket or b) in a different pocket, then passes that along? No, this isn't where the shuffling is taking place - think much more literally | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3305 Registered: 4-2010 |
Does the employee actually drop the money, then pick it up, but pocket some of it? Is the money literally shuffled? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2093 Registered: 1-2001 |
Does the employee actually drop the money, then pick it up, but pocket some of it? No Is the money literally shuffled? Yes, but there is something else being shuffled as well (and at the same time), which makes the coffee cup example very easy to understand | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3307 Registered: 4-2010 |
Does the employee take money from a whole bunch of customers at once? So he puts them all in one bunch, then hands one big bunch over? But he has secretly pocketed some of the money? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2094 Registered: 1-2001 |
Does the employee take money from a whole bunch of customers Yes at once? No, not possible So he puts them all in one bunch, then hands one big bunch over? But he has secretly pocketed some of the money? Yes, this is a perfect description | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3308 Registered: 4-2010 |
Let's work on the restaurant angle... This is a fast-food place, right? Relevant what type of food is sold? Do they sell burgers? Fries? Coffee? Relevant? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2096 Registered: 1-2001 |
This is a fast-food place, right? It may not be strictly considered this, but it would be in this category when compared to something like "Fine Dining" Relevant what type of food is sold? Yes, very Do they sell burgers? Fries? Coffee? None of these Relevant? If you can discover the kind of restaurant, you'll quickly discover how the theft was taking place and how the "shuffling" occurred | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3310 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is it a sit-down restaurant? Indoors? Outdoors? Do they sell hot dogs? Ethnic food? Pizza? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3311 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is it a take-out restaurant? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2097 Registered: 1-2001 |
Is it a sit-down restaurant? No Indoors? Yes Outdoors? No Do they sell...Pizza? YES Is it a take-out restaurant? Yes, but that function is not of concern to Mr. Doe... | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2098 Registered: 1-2001 |
The clue in Mr. Doe's name was "Doe" = dough, as in pizza dough | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3313 Registered: 4-2010 |
D'oh! ;-) Relevant when the customers pay? Do they pay as they place their order? When they get their food? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2100 Registered: 1-2001 |
Relevant when the customers pay? Yes, because...Do they pay as they place their order? No When they get their food? Yes | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3315 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is the thief the one who gives the customers their food? And gets the money in return? Do they get the food at the counter? Their car? A table? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2102 Registered: 1-2001 |
Is the thief the one who gives the customers their food? The thief is one who gives customers food, yes And gets the money in return? Yes Do they get the food at the counter? Their car? A table? None of these | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3316 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is the pizza delivered? To the customers' homes? Is he a pizza delivery guy? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2104 Registered: 1-2001 |
Is the pizza delivered? To the customers' homes? Is he a pizza delivery guy? YES, YES, and YES! | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2105 Registered: 1-2001 |
Now it's just a matter of putting together what is known about the thefts and relating it to the coffee cup example | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3318 Registered: 4-2010 |
So... The theft is orchestrated by a pizza delivery guy who makes a bunch of deliveries. When he collects the money, he puts it together with money from other customers' orders. However, when he brings all the money back to the pizza place, he keeps some for himself. Does the pizza guy make a bunch of deliveries all in one trip? Does he return to the pizza place between orders? Does he put all the money in one place before returning to the pizza place? Does he just leave the pocketed money in the pizza delivery car, and come back for it? Or does he literally pocket it? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2107 Registered: 1-2001 |
So... The theft is orchestrated by a pizza delivery guy who makes a bunch of deliveries. When he collects the money, he puts it together with money from other customers' orders. However, when he brings all the money back to the pizza place, he keeps some for himself. Yes, exactly Does the pizza guy make a bunch of deliveries all in one trip? Sometimes he does, yes, but at other times he may make only 1 Does he return to the pizza place between orders? Sometimes yes, but not necessarily Does he put all the money in one place before returning to the pizza place? YES, this is important Does he just leave the pocketed money in the pizza delivery car, and come back for it? No, most likely..Or does he literally pocket it? He does this with it | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3320 Registered: 4-2010 |
Relevant exactly how much money is pocketed? What percentage of money? Or is it just relevant that money is stolen? Relevant what he does with the pocketed money? Does he buy pizza with it? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2109 Registered: 1-2001 |
Relevant exactly how much money is pocketed? Not an exact amount, moreso...What percentage of money? Yes, this (and consider what was done with the cups) Or is it just relevant that money is stolen? This is what is most relevant to the 2 people in the puzzle (and consider what role Stan is expected to fill) Relevant what he does with the pocketed money? No Does he buy pizza with it? Irrel. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3322 Registered: 4-2010 |
Was one-third of the money stolen? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2111 Registered: 1-2001 |
Was one-third of the money stolen? It likely wasn't this much, but an exact percentage does not matter. Keep in mind that Mr. Doe could have used more than 3 cups for his example, there was only 1 cup that had anything in it, and his actions caused something to happen to that cup... | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3324 Registered: 4-2010 |
He only slid one cup over, and the coffee spilled out when he shuffled them - was this his way of saying that only one employee was stealing? Do the delivery guys take the same car each time? Or "shuffle" cars? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2113 Registered: 1-2001 |
He only slid one cup over, and the coffee spilled out when he shuffled them - was this his way of saying that only one employee was stealing? Yes - Mr. Doe knew that based on something yet to be determined, there was probably 1 employee who was stealing Do the delivery guys take the same car each time? NO, slight FA Or "shuffle" cars? No, it is not the cars that are shuffled, but there is more than one car that is used for deliveries (clears up most of the FA) | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3327 Registered: 4-2010 |
So there are a bunch of cars used for delivering pizza, and the delivery guys do not necessarily take the same car each time, right? Or do they? Did the thieving employee take the same car each time? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2114 Registered: 1-2001 |
So there are a bunch of cars used for delivering pizza, and the delivery guys do not necessarily take the same car each time, right? Well a safe assumption is that each employee uses his or her own car to deliver, but this is not relevant Or do they? Did the thieving employee take the same car each time? That is safe to assume but does not factor into the thefts. Think about what was being done with the money | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3329 Registered: 4-2010 |
Was money pocketed from each individual customer's order? Or from the combined pack of money when all the payments were put together? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2116 Registered: 1-2001 |
Was money pocketed from each individual customer's order? Not likely, it was...from the combined pack of money YES, but... when all the payments were put together? YES AND NO, you are very close and you have the right idea. The theft was taking place sometime after the delivery person took money from customers and before all payments were combined. Consider what Stan was in charge of with regards to the restaurant's money. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3332 Registered: 4-2010 |
Was Stan in charge of making sure the customers paid the right amount? Of making sure all the money made it back to the pizza place? This puzzle is making me hungry; I'm going to order a pizza now! | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2118 Registered: 1-2001 |
Was Stan in charge of making sure the customers paid the right amount? No, this wasn't up to Stan, but...Of making sure all the money made it back to the pizza place? YES! This is what Stan was expected to do, and it was not being currently done at the place prior to Mr. Doe hiring Stan. SO...can you figure out the "shuffling" that was being done? This puzzle is making me hungry; I'm going to order a pizza now! Enjoy! | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3334 Registered: 4-2010 |
Were any other employees accomplices to the theft? Are tips relevant? The cups were shuffled...do the cups refer to the employees? The money? The delivery cars? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2120 Registered: 1-2001 |
Were any other employees accomplices to the theft? No Are tips relevant? No, just for simplicity's sake The cups were shuffled...do the cups refer to the employees? The money? Both of these, and a specific aspect of the job (which has been discovered recently) The delivery cars? No | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3337 Registered: 4-2010 |
Do the cups refer to the payments for the orders? Were the payments shuffled before the money was stolen? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2122 Registered: 1-2001 |
Do the cups refer to the payments for the orders? Well yes, there is a specific aspect of the job that the cups are used to reference Were the payments shuffled before the money was stolen? No, the shuffling took place after the theft (good q) | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3340 Registered: 4-2010 |
Was the money for the payments shuffled after the theft? This way, it couldn't be determined just how much money there was? Or which money came from which order? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2123 Registered: 1-2001 |
Was the money for the payments shuffled after the theft? Yes This way, it couldn't be determined just how much money there was? The amount of money could be determined, and this is what led to the cup demonstration Or which money came from which order? Not "which order", but "which money" is the key to the solution. Mr. Doe (and Stan) could figure out how much money was coming in, this wasn't an issue, there was only 1 thing that they were not sure about, and this is where the shuffling is involved | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3342 Registered: 4-2010 |
Were they not sure which employee was the thief? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2126 Registered: 1-2001 |
Were they not sure which employee was the thief? Bingo! They knew that theft was taking place, just not who was doing it. Mr. Doe has hired Stan to keep coffee from being spilled, and we know pretty much all the details of the theft except the part that could be explained by shuffling cups around. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3344 Registered: 4-2010 |
Let me see if this sequence of events is correct: -Employee/thief receives payment from a customer. -He puts the money in a certain place. -Above steps repeated for a few more customers. -Employee pockets some of the money. -Employee shuffles money. -Employee brings rest of money to pizza place. That good? Are the bills shuffled so they will have to be sorted later? Is the shuffling intended to hide the theft? To make it so that the theft won't be noticed until later? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2127 Registered: 1-2001 |
Let me see if this sequence of events is correct: This was about to be my next post, so go for it! -Employee/thief receives payment from a customer. -He puts the money in a certain place. -Above steps repeated for a few more customers. -Employee pockets some of the money. All right so far (pay close attention to your second step) -Employee shuffles money. Small FA, there is something else along with the money that is being shuffled, refer back to your second step -Employee brings rest of money to pizza place. These are the last 2 steps, but not in this order... That good? Nearly perfect, just note my comments Are the bills shuffled so they will have to be sorted later? Bills (and coins) may be shuffled, but there is a more specific thing being shuffled Is the shuffling intended to hide the theft? YES AND NO, it is intended to hide the identity of the thief To make it so that the theft won't be noticed until later? Yes, part of the motive | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3346 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is ALL the money from ALL the orders from ALL the delivery guys shuffled together? This way, whichever money order that is short money will not be able to be identified? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2128 Registered: 1-2001 |
Is ALL the money from ALL the orders from ALL the delivery guys shuffled together? It is all shuffled at the same time, but it is not all combined when the shuffling takes place - great q! This way, whichever money order that is short money will not be able to be identified? Correct here, the shuffling does not hide the fact that money is missing, but it does hide the identity of the thief (at least it has in the past...Mr. Doe hopes that Stan can change this) | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3347 Registered: 4-2010 |
Are ALL the orders collected and shuffled, but not together? Or are they shuffled so that the payment cannot be matched to the car (or the employee)? (e.g. 4 cars, Car 1's payment moved so it appears to be coming from Car 2, Car 2's to 4, Car 3's to 1, and Car 4's to 3 - this way, no payment can be matched to a car)? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2129 Registered: 1-2001 |
Are ALL the orders collected and shuffled, but not together? This does happen, but in a certain way...read on Or are they shuffled so that the payment cannot be matched to the car not so much the car, but (or the employee)? Yes - the shuffling is done so that groups of payments cannot be matched to certain employees (e.g. 4 cars, Car 1's payment moved so it appears to be coming from Car 2, Car 2's to 4, Car 3's to 1, and Car 4's to 3 - this way, no payment can be matched to a car)? You have the right idea! Only don't think about it so much as relating to cars, but relating to employees. Now in your example the 4 cars represent 4 employees; if Mr. Doe had wanted to represent the same number of employees as you provided, he would have used 4 cups; he figured that 3 cups were sufficient to make the point, but he could have used 4 or more (depending on the number of employees he wanted to represent). All you need to discover is what exactly is being shuffled so that the thief's identity stays hidden...(and you're almost there) | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3349 Registered: 4-2010 |
Are the payments being swapped between employees? So no one knows which payment came from which employee? | ||
| Biograd (Biograd)
New member Username: Biograd Post Number: 929 Registered: 6-2008 |
Are they shuffling receipts? I'm imagining a system where the restaurant checks the amount of money each employee brings back at the end of the day with the total on all the "store copies" of the receipts given by him to his customers. If the employees exchange receipts such that the thief gets ones with smaller totals, then the restaurant will expect him to be returning less money. | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2130 Registered: 1-2001 |
Are the payments being swapped between employees? Yes, in a certain way (see step 2 in your list above) So no one knows which payment came from which employee? Yes Are they shuffling receipts? No, receipts are not involved I'm imagining a system where the restaurant Stan, in this case checks the amount of money each employee brings back at the end of the day This is right with the total on all the "store copies" of the receipts given by him to his customers. The customers do not handle receipts If the employees exchange receipts such that the thief gets ones with smaller totals, then the restaurant will expect him to be returning less money. There is an "exchange", or "shuffle" taking place, but not with receipts | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3360 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is the "certain place" where the money is put common to all employees? So each employee puts his/her money order there? And then just takes a random one to turn in? Or is there a way in which they know which one is theirs? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2131 Registered: 1-2001 |
Is the "certain place" where the money is put common to all employees? Yes (but be careful of FA) So each employee puts his/her money order there? Yes And then just takes a random one to turn in? No, this isn't their job Or is there a way in which they know which one is theirs? Yes (but it obviously isn't working well) | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3362 Registered: 4-2010 |
Do they put the money order in the place? Is there any way to tell which money order matches with which employee? Or are all the orders just put together to be collected by someone else? Who can't tell which order goes with which employee? After the shuffling, is it possible to tell which order goes with which employee? Are the money orders put in something? On something? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2133 Registered: 1-2001 |
Do they put the money order in the place? Yes Is there any way to tell which money order matches with which employee? Yes, but I think the phrase "money order" may be just a bit misleading, there is a better word for it Or are all the orders just put together to be collected Yes, at some point by someone else? Yes, this is Stan's job Who can't tell which order goes with which employee? Right, because...After the shuffling, is it possible to tell which order goes with which employee? NO - good q! Are the money orders put in something? YES On something? Yes-ish, but "on" is not the best term | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3368 Registered: 4-2010 |
Would "combined payment" be a better word? Just "payment"? Are the payments put in bags? Lockers? Cabinets? Drawers? Are the things labelled? With the employees' names/other forms of ID? Are the payments all put in the same single thing? In individual things? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2134 Registered: 1-2001 |
RECAP #2: The money from all orders is collected at some point by Stan, not by the delivery workers. The job of the delivery workers is to collect money from customers, put it in a certain place (which is the key to the puzzle now), bring the money to the restaurant to be later collected by Stan. The shuffling does not take place until after the money is brought back to the restaurant (these were the last 2 steps posted earlier, they were just in the opposite order). Once the shuffling is done, Stan cannot tell which order (but there's a better word, refer back to Step 2) goes with which employee. The orders (and something else specific) are put in something AND on something else, but "on" may be a little misleading for this latter part. | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2135 Registered: 1-2001 |
Would "combined payment" be a better word? Just "payment"? You've got the key word below - Are the payments put in bags? YES!!! And then... Lockers? No, but...Cabinets? YES! Drawers? No Are the things labelled? NO!!! With the employees' names/other forms of ID? NO!!! They aren't marked at all! Are the payments all put in the same single thing? The only time this is done is when Stan combines all money returned In individual things? YES! Initially, all payments are put into individual "things", and then into other individual "things" - you have discovered both important "things" now, and should have all you need! | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3369 Registered: 4-2010 |
So neither the cabinets nor bags are labelled? If not, are the bags labelled? Are the bags supposed to be put in corresponding cabinets? But the bags are shuffled around? So no one can tell which bag goes with which cabinet? Is that everything? | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2137 Registered: 1-2001 |
So neither the cabinets nor bags are labelled? Correct If not, are the bags labelled? So no Are the bags supposed to be put in corresponding cabinets? Does not matter But the bags are shuffled around? Yes So no one can tell which bag goes with which cabinet? Or which driver, in this case Is that everything? That is close enough and you have certainly worked hard enough! | ||
| Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
New member Username: Ixoye724 Post Number: 2138 Registered: 1-2001 |
****** SPOILER ****** Mr. Doe has decided to open a delivery-based pizza restaurant. He has no experience doing this, and doesn't want to be on site so he hires an in-store manager to monitor the store activity and employees. There are several delivery drivers on duty at any given time, their job is to deliver orders, take cash from customers, put the cash into bags/pouches and return the money to the store. The bags stay full of money until the end of the day, at which time the store manager empties all the bags, counts the money, compares what has been received with what is due, then returns the bags to a cabinet. The cabinet has divided cubbies, so that 1 bag fits into each one. One of the drivers has been taking small amounts of cash from his money bag after getting paid by a customer but before returning to the store. Even if he's the last one to place his bag into the cabinet, he shuffles all the bags around so that the bag with the incorrect amount of money is always in a different place. Mr. Doe has concluded that this means either 1) One driver on every shift is stealing from him, or 2) One driver alone is stealing money but has been able to safely stay anonymous. Mr. Doe's initial manager could not solve the problem, so Mr. Doe has now hired Stan. To show Stan an example, he uses 3 cups, representing 3 money bags. As he shuffles the cups, coffee begins to spill out of the one that isn't empty - of course all pouches would have money in them, but only one is "leaking", so Mr. Doe doesn't bother to fill up all the cups in order to keep his example simple. By the time the cup with coffee is passed to Stan, enough of it has spilled so that it's not as full as originally, making the point that over time enough money leaks from the one bag that the restaurant is being shorted on the money coming in. SO...whether Stan is smart enough to start labelling the bags, or keeping a close eye on when the bags go into and out of the cabinet, Mr. Doe has hired him to keep the coffee from being spilled. Bravo to all but especially Balin who kept at it! This puzzle is partially based on my experience as a delivery driver. My employer used a plain, unmarked bag for me and drivers who filled in for me when I was absent. We were all honest drivers, but there was not a strict accounting system in place. If there had been 3 or more drivers, without a better system in place it would have been easy to anonymously take money from the bags while out on a delivery and "do the shuffle" when we got back to the store. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3374 Registered: 4-2010 |
Wow, excellent puzzle, and excellent story! |
