| Author | Message | ||
| It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
New member Username: It_so_happened Post Number: 536 Registered: 5-2010 |
A man died because of a geometric solid. Why? | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 107 Registered: 9-2009 |
A man = HAM? Did he really die (i.e., lost his life)? Was he killed by the geometric solid? Was he murdered? Other people involved or relevant? Solid as in neither liquid nor gaseous? | ||
| Mattiel (Mattiel)
New member Username: Mattiel Post Number: 241 Registered: 6-2005 |
Geometric solid: a real object whose shape is geometrically defined (e.g. a dice, which has the shape of a cube)? Or an object whose name is the also the name of a geometric solid? Cube? Sphere? Cylinder? Cone? | ||
| It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
New member Username: It_so_happened Post Number: 538 Registered: 5-2010 |
A man = HAM? Yes Did he really die (i.e., lost his life)? Yes Was he killed by the geometric solid? Yes-ish, only indirectly Was he murdered? Yes with a small ish Other people involved or relevant? Yes Solid as in neither liquid nor gaseous? not exactly the definition I was going for, see below Geometric solid: a real object whose shape is geometrically defined (e.g. a dice, which has the shape of a cube)? One might have been involved, but that's actually irrelevant Or an object whose name is the also the name of a geometric solid? Not sure I understand what you mean. There is a specific geometric solid in mind, but whether or not there was an actual object involved is irrelevant Cube? Sphere? Cylinder? Cone? Not any of these, but yes, along these lines | ||
| Mattiel (Mattiel)
New member Username: Mattiel Post Number: 243 Registered: 6-2005 |
Was he shot? poisoned? stabbed? suffocated? forced to fall from a great heigth? (Isn't there a LTPF list of way to murder s.o.? :-) Relevant his age? profession? country of residence? nationality? Other relevant people: how many, 1? 2? 3? LTPF list of integers? Relevant their sex? their age? their profession? their country of residence? nationality? | ||
| It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
New member Username: It_so_happened Post Number: 540 Registered: 5-2010 |
Was he shot? poisoned? stabbed? suffocated? forced to fall from a great heigth? (Isn't there a LTPF list of way to murder s.o.? :-) I believe there is such a list. He was drowned. Relevant his age? no profession? yes-ish country of residence? yes nationality? yes-ish Other relevant people: how many, 1? 2? 3? LTPF list of integers? Ultimately, I think there are a couple-hundred people involved. Specifically relevant might be three or so. (Is there an LTPF list of integers? I'd like to see that list! ;) Relevant their sex? no their age? no their profession? yes-ish their country of residence? yes nationality? yes-ish | ||
| Mattiel (Mattiel)
New member Username: Mattiel Post Number: 244 Registered: 6-2005 |
Did this happen in sea? in a lake? in a river? in a pool? in a bathtub? elsewhere? Was he alone when he was drowned? Did he fall from a boat/ship/other aquatic vehicle? Did this happen in the US? Or in the LTPF list of continents? | ||
| Galfisk (Galfisk)
New member Username: Galfisk Post Number: 3157 Registered: 9-2009 |
Solid: toroid? Prism? Polyhedron? Was he murdered? Was the solid implicated in the: death? Motive? Circumstances? Archimedes relevant? | ||
| It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
New member Username: It_so_happened Post Number: 542 Registered: 5-2010 |
Did this happen in sea? I believe this, although somewhat irrelevant in a lake? in a river? in a pool? in a bathtub? elsewhere? Was he alone when he was drowned? no Did he fall from a boat/ship/other aquatic vehicle? perhaps, yes, DOYD of "fall" Did this happen in the US? Or in the LTPF list of continents? Europe Solid: toroid? Prism? Polyhedron? this Was he murdered? yes, with a small ish Was the solid implicated in the: death? yope Motive? yes Circumstances? yes, I think, although this seems vague Archimedes relevant? no, but OTRT | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3620 Registered: 4-2010 |
Was it a pyramid? Did he jump? Was it suicide? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3621 Registered: 4-2010 |
Was it a pyramid? Did he jump? Was it suicide? | ||
| It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
New member Username: It_so_happened Post Number: 544 Registered: 5-2010 |
Was it a pyramid? no Did he jump? no Was it suicide? no, it was definitely more akin to murder | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3625 Registered: 4-2010 |
Was the solid large? Small? Was it an octahedron? Dodecahedron? Isocahedron? Tetrahedron? Was it a die? A loaded die? | ||
| It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
New member Username: It_so_happened Post Number: 549 Registered: 5-2010 |
Was the solid large? Small? irrel Was it an octahedron? Dodecahedron? this Isocahedron? Tetrahedron? Was it a die? no A loaded die? | ||
| Biograd (Biograd)
New member Username: Biograd Post Number: 943 Registered: 6-2008 |
Oh no, I thought the die sounded really good! So (interpreting the earlier answers) the situation involved the concept of a dodecahedron, not a real physical object that was in the shape of one? | ||
| It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
New member Username: It_so_happened Post Number: 552 Registered: 5-2010 |
Oh no, I thought the die sounded really good! Yeah, I thought of that answer when I came up with this, and thought, maybe I could have two answers! So (interpreting the earlier answers) the situation involved the concept of a dodecahedron, not a real physical object that was in the shape of one? exactly! | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3649 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is the time period relevant? If so, [LTPF list of centuries]? Is the country on [LTPF list of continents]? | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4623 Registered: 12-2000 |
So it wasn't a solid object attached to his neck in order to force his drowning? I make dodecahedrons out of old Christmas cards. | ||
| Biograd (Biograd)
New member Username: Biograd Post Number: 945 Registered: 6-2008 |
Were some people arguing over the geometric properties of a dodecahedron? such as what its angles are? or how many vertices it has? | ||
| It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
New member Username: It_so_happened Post Number: 554 Registered: 5-2010 |
Is the time period relevant? If so, [LTPF list of centuries]? Is the country on [LTPF list of continents]? Greece, circa 500's BC So it wasn't a solid object attached to his neck in order to force his drowning? nope I make dodecahedrons out of old Christmas cards. Sounds neat. You don't drown people with them, do you? ;) Were some people arguing over the geometric properties of a dodecahedron? no such as what its angles are? or how many vertices it has? no to both | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3718 Registered: 4-2010 |
Had the idea of a dodecahedron just been discovered? Any other Platonic solids relevant? | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 113 Registered: 9-2009 |
Is this a real story? Was he intentionally drowned or was it an accident? Was he in the middle of an experiment? If he was, was this experiment a pretext for murder? The "concept of a dodecahedron" relevant? Could (the concept of) a cube be used for the same purpose? Of a sphere? Could the same happen in the 21st century in the North Sea? Was the event happening during a battle/war? Is this relevant? | ||
| It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
New member Username: It_so_happened Post Number: 556 Registered: 5-2010 |
Had the idea of a dodecahedron just been discovered? yes! Any other Platonic solids relevant? no Is this a real story? yes, or supposedly. I don't think it's been historically validated in full Was he intentionally drowned or was it an accident? intentional Was he in the middle of an experiment? no If he was, was this experiment a pretext for murder? The "concept of a dodecahedron" relevant? only in that it had been just discovered Could (the concept of) a cube be used for the same purpose? Of a sphere? only if it had just been discovered (which seems unlikely for either of these) Could the same happen in the 21st century in the North Sea? well, something similar COULD happen, but there are historical events relevant here Was the event happening during a battle/war? no, or irrel Is this relevant? no | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3753 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is the dead guy's profession relevant? Was he a mathematician? Philosopher? Is the killer a mathematician? Philosopher? Is there just one killer? More than one? HAM? HAF? | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 120 Registered: 9-2009 |
Did he invented the idea of a dodecahedron? Was it (the idea) considered by some (the murderer(s) included) to be impious? immoral? Was it a murder in the common sense or was it a killing performed by authorities? Did he / they kill him because of envy? In order to say that the idea of the dodecahedron came to him / them? | ||
| It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
New member Username: It_so_happened Post Number: 558 Registered: 5-2010 |
Is the dead guy's profession relevant? yes, small ish Was he a mathematician? Philosopher? both! Is the killer a mathematician? Philosopher? both again! Is there just one killer? More than one? this I believe HAM? HAF? HA, probably M, could have been a F around Did he invented the idea of a dodecahedron? no, or probably not (but it's possible) Was it (the idea) considered by some (the murderer(s) included) to be impious? no immoral? no Was it a murder in the common sense or was it a killing performed by authorities? not sure the correct answer exactly, but "authorities" were involved in at least some sense, definitely more than your average murder Did he / they kill him because of envy? no In order to say that the idea of the dodecahedron came to him / them? no | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3812 Registered: 4-2010 |
Were they in a fight over the idea of the dodecahedron? Which one of them came up with it? | ||
| It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
New member Username: It_so_happened Post Number: 560 Registered: 5-2010 |
Were they in a fight over the idea of the dodecahedron? not exactly Which one of them came up with it? no | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3815 Registered: 4-2010 |
Are they other people also mathematicians? Philosophers? Government officials? Is the man executed? Wrongfully? | ||
| It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
New member Username: It_so_happened Post Number: 562 Registered: 5-2010 |
Are they other people also mathematicians? Philosophers? yes, both! Government officials? no Is the man executed? not exactly, but it had that sort of flavor to it Wrongfully? Most of us would think so, but it would have been debatable for those involved... | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 4042 Registered: 4-2010 |
Were the authorities actively involved with his death? Only the mathematicians/philosophers? | ||
| It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
New member Username: It_so_happened Post Number: 564 Registered: 5-2010 |
Were the authorities actively involved with his death? no, although DOYD of "authorities" Only the mathematicians/philosophers? yes | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 4127 Registered: 4-2010 |
So...were the mathemalosophers arguing? Over the idea of a dodecahedron? Is any property of a dodecahedron relevant? That it is a Platonic solid? Are any other geometric shapes relevant? | ||
| It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
New member Username: It_so_happened Post Number: 567 Registered: 5-2010 |
So...were the mathemalosophers arguing? haha. not exactly Over the idea of a dodecahedron? no Is any property of a dodecahedron relevant? That it is a Platonic solid? Are any other geometric shapes relevant? no to these, the only thing of importance is that the dodecahedron was just discovered. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 4485 Registered: 4-2010 |
Were they arguing over a certain potential use of a dodecahedron? Related to ships? To philosophy? | ||
| It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
New member Username: It_so_happened Post Number: 569 Registered: 5-2010 |
Were they arguing over a certain potential use of a dodecahedron? noish Related to ships? no To philosophy? yes-ish, it is somewhat important that they thought that math and philosophy were somehow intertwined | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 4564 Registered: 4-2010 |
Plato's theory of ideals relevant? (Philosophy major...I kinda have to know this stuff.) | ||
| It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
New member Username: It_so_happened Post Number: 571 Registered: 5-2010 |
Plato's theory of ideals relevant? (Philosophy major...I kinda have to know this stuff.) no, in fact, it would have been before Plato, although it is conjectured that Plato was influenced by this particular group | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 4640 Registered: 4-2010 |
Were they arguing over the idea of a dodecahedron? A (potential) physical dodecahedron? | ||
| It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
New member Username: It_so_happened Post Number: 572 Registered: 5-2010 |
Were they arguing over the idea of a dodecahedron? A (potential) physical dodecahedron? no, and they weren't really arguing | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 4641 Registered: 4-2010 |
Was the idea of a dodecahedron considered unlawful? Sacrilegious? | ||
| It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
New member Username: It_so_happened Post Number: 573 Registered: 5-2010 |
Was the idea of a dodecahedron considered unlawful? Sacrilegious? No, but something was done that was considered (by some) to be some strange mixture of both | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 4737 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did someone try to patent the dodecahedron? Take full claim for it? | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 244 Registered: 9-2009 |
Are we talking about the Pythagoreans here? | ||
| It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
New member Username: It_so_happened Post Number: 575 Registered: 5-2010 |
Did someone try to patent the dodecahedron? Take full claim for it? no to both Are we talking about the Pythagoreans here? yes! | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 250 Registered: 9-2009 |
Did the recent invention change something about their cosmological perception? Did they think that this will somewhat alter the armony of the world? The armony of the government? Were the 'authorities' the elders of the town? A council to the ruler? Did the whole event took place in Croton? Was Pythagoras alive when the invention occurred? When the killing took place? | ||
| It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
New member Username: It_so_happened Post Number: 582 Registered: 5-2010 |
Did the recent invention change something about their cosmological perception? Did they think that this will somewhat alter the armony of the world? The armony of the government? all of these are possible, but irrelevant. I'm not sure what all the implications of the discovery were. Were the 'authorities' the elders of the town? no A council to the ruler? no Did the whole event took place in Croton? I believe so, yes Was Pythagoras alive when the invention occurred? yes When the killing took place? yes | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 4818 Registered: 4-2010 |
Were the "authorities" other Pythagoreans? Was the dead man a Pythagorean? | ||
| It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
New member Username: It_so_happened Post Number: 583 Registered: 5-2010 |
Were the "authorities" other Pythagoreans? yes! Was the dead man a Pythagorean? yes! | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 4822 Registered: 4-2010 |
Was the idea of the dodecahedron considered against the Pythagorean ideals? Was the man a scapegoat? | ||
| It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
New member Username: It_so_happened Post Number: 584 Registered: 5-2010 |
Was the idea of the dodecahedron considered against the Pythagorean ideals? no, quite the opposite Was the man a scapegoat? no | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 278 Registered: 9-2009 |
So, is it correct to say that by discovering the item he needed to be removed from the sect, from some yet to be determined reason? | ||
| It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
New member Username: It_so_happened Post Number: 589 Registered: 5-2010 |
So, is it correct to say that by discovering the item he needed to be removed from the sect, from some yet to be determined reason? not so much "because" of the discovery, but because of another action involved in the discovery that is yet to be determined. But yes, it was decided that he needed to be "removed", which is why he was killed | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 282 Registered: 9-2009 |
Did he performed some 'unlawfull' action in the process of discovery? Anything related to the laws of mathematics? Was he considered to do something that might angered the gods? Performed some sacrifices? | ||
| It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
New member Username: It_so_happened Post Number: 594 Registered: 5-2010 |
Did he performed some 'unlawfull' action in the process of discovery? yes, although more "after" than "in" Anything related to the laws of mathematics? no Was he considered to do something that might angered the gods? no, at least I don't think that was the nature of it Performed some sacrifices? no | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 287 Registered: 9-2009 |
So, in order to find out why removal was needed: Did he upset someone? Pythagoras himself? Did he break the rules of the community? Did he tell somebody about his discovery, while he was supposed to keep it as a secret? Did he endanger the sect (in the oppinion of fellow members)? If so: in front of the gods? Civil authorities? Was he simply killed or did he agree with the sentence? | ||
| It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
New member Username: It_so_happened Post Number: 599 Registered: 5-2010 |
So, in order to find out why removal was needed: Did he upset someone? perhaps Pythagoras himself? perhaps Did he break the rules of the community? yes Did he tell somebody about his discovery, while he was supposed to keep it as a secret? That's it! Did he endanger the sect (in the oppinion of fellow members)? If so: in front of the gods? Civil authorities? Was he simply killed or did he agree with the sentence? ********SPOILER************ The Pythagorean sect was a highly secretive and exclusive group. They considered their mathematics to be discovering the nature of God and the universe, and they only allowed those of extraordinary intellect into the group. One of the rules of the order was that all discoveries and knowledge acquired among the group was to stay within the group. This "law" was punishable by death. The account tells of a member of the sect that was caught discussing with "common" citizens about the nature of the newly discovered dodecahedron. Because this violated the laws of the order, the man was sentenced to death by drowning (some accounts say Pythagoras himself was present at the time of the execution). Thanks to everyone who participated. Good job, Balin and Rbruma, for putting together the majority of details. | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 290 Registered: 9-2009 |
Nice and instructive one! Thank you. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 4826 Registered: 4-2010 |
Good one! Doubt I would have come up with the answer for a long time though. Can't wait to see your next one...and I've got a good puzzle idea now. |
