| Author | Message | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 1010 Registered: 5-2007 |
If I'd carried an umbrella, I'd have been arrested. | ||
| It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
New member Username: It_so_happened Post Number: 537 Registered: 5-2010 |
Was it raining? If you'd carried a cane, would you have been arrested? Would you have been arrested for a crime you actually committed, regardless of umbrella? A crime you would have committed only on the condition of carrying an umbrella? A crime you didn't commit? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 1011 Registered: 5-2007 |
Was it raining? yes If you'd carried a cane, would you have been arrested? no Would you have been arrested for a crime you actually committed, regardless of umbrella? no A crime you would have committed only on the condition of carrying an umbrella? no A crime you didn't commit? yes | ||
| Biograd (Biograd)
New member Username: Biograd Post Number: 936 Registered: 6-2008 |
Were those who would have arrested you, looking for a suspect described only by his carrying an umbrella in a particular place? Would they have in fact been searching for a suspect at the time they saw you with the umbrella? or would seeing you with the umbrella have been the thing that made them think a crime was committed? | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 2808 Registered: 1-2007 |
Longshot this but is Georgi Markov relevant? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 1012 Registered: 5-2007 |
Were those who would have arrested you, looking for a suspect described only by his carrying an umbrella in a particular place? no Would they have in fact been searching for a suspect at the time they saw you with the umbrella? no or would seeing you with the umbrella have been the thing that made them think a crime was committed? no Longshot this but is Georgi Markov relevant? no | ||
| It_so_happened (It_so_happened)
New member Username: It_so_happened Post Number: 541 Registered: 5-2010 |
Is being dry what would have resulted in arrest? Is being wet what prevented your arrest? If it had not been raining, and you were without an umbrella, would you have been arrested? If it had not been raining, and yet you were still carrying an umbrella, would you have been arrested? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3641 Registered: 4-2010 |
Was an umbrella used in the crime? Was the crime stealing an umbrella? Other theft? | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4618 Registered: 12-2000 |
Is this a true story? Is it only possible in a fictitious setting? Any archaic laws relevant? Would the umbrella have been seen as a weapon? Type of umbrella relevant? Would the umbrella have been in use? Or just carried unfurled? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 1013 Registered: 5-2007 |
Is being dry what would have resulted in arrest? no Is being wet what prevented your arrest? no If it had not been raining, and you were without an umbrella, would you have been arrested? yes If it had not been raining, and yet you were still carrying an umbrella, would you have been arrested? yes Was an umbrella used in the crime? FA, but no Was the crime stealing an umbrella? FA, but no Other theft? FA, but yes Is this a true story? yes Is it only possible in a fictitious setting? no Any archaic laws relevant? no Would the umbrella have been seen as a weapon? no Type of umbrella relevant? no Would the umbrella have been in use? yes Or just carried unfurled? no | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3648 Registered: 4-2010 |
Was a crime committed at all? And yet they would have thought you had committed one, had you been carrying the umbrella? Had the police received a tip about a potential crime? Potential theft? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 1014 Registered: 5-2007 |
Was a crime committed at all? no And yet they would have thought you had committed one, had you been carrying the umbrella? yes Had the police received a tip about a potential crime? no Potential theft? no | ||
| Kdoc (Kdoc)
New member Username: Kdoc Post Number: 1071 Registered: 7-2001 |
relevant where you were at the time? inside? outside? town? countryside? were you walking into a building? out of one? were you stationary? running? walking? did you say anything relevant? did anyone say anything relevant to you? so the relevant thing which keeps you from being arrested is the combination of raining plus no umbrella? you said you would have been arrested if it were not raining? with or without umbrella? so we need to find out why the police might have thought you'd committed a crime? and why, by not carrying an umbrella in the rain they did not think you had? or was it that they just didn't notice you? or thought someone else had committed a crime? or didn't think a crime had been comitted at all? or that you had done something but it was not a crime? was justified in some way? is any person other than you and the police relevant? were the police particularly looking for criminals? looking out for someone comitting a certain type of crime? to be arrested would you have been holding an open umbrella in the normal way? would the holding of the umbrella have stopped you from doing something else that might have made it seem you had not committed a crime? the theft they might have arrested you for: of money? shoplifting? of a car? pickpocketing? | ||
| Viniter (Viniter)
New member Username: Viniter Post Number: 130 Registered: 4-2010 |
If I was on the same place at the same time with umbrella, would I have been arrested? If there were 100 people with umbrellas would all of them have been arrested? Was it a place where you were restricted to carry and umbrella? Was some kind of event going on? Speech/performance of important/famous person... inauguration of president maybe? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 1016 Registered: 5-2007 |
relevant where you were at the time? yes inside? this one outside? town? countryside? were you walking into a building? out of one? this is closest were you stationary? more or less running? at my time of life? no walking more or less did you say anything relevant? did anyone say anything relevant to you? well, there was a conversation during which I was accused of an attempted crime so the relevant thing which keeps you from being arrested is the combination of raining plus no umbrella? in effect, yes you said you would have been arrested if it were not raining? I would with or without umbrella? indeed so we need to find out why the police might have thought you'd committed a crime? well, the police were never actually involved and why, by not carrying an umbrella in the rain they did not think you had? no or was it that they just didn't notice you? no or thought someone else had committed a crime? no or didn't think a crime had been committed at all? no or that you had done something but it was not a crime? no was justified in some way? oh, everything everyone did on this occasion was entirely justified is any person other than you and the police relevant? again, the police were not actually on the scene, but no one is relevant apart from me and those who would have summoned the police to arrest me had I carried an umbrella were the police particularly looking for criminals? I expect so, which is why they would not have been overjoyed to be summoned to arrest me, who was at least on this occasion entirely innocent looking out for someone committing a certain type of crime? oh, every type of crime - in Shepherd's Bush, the police are not exactly idle to be arrested would you have been holding an open umbrella in the normal way? yes would the holding of the umbrella have stopped you from doing something else that might have made it seem you had not committed a crime? no the theft they might have arrested you for: of money? shoplifting? this one - now then... of a car? pickpocketing? If I was on the same place at the same time with umbrella, would I have been arrested? if you found yourself in the same circumstances as I did, yes If there were 100 people with umbrellas would all of them have been arrested? ditto, but that is a vanishingly unlikely state of affairs Was it a place where you were restricted to carry and umbrella? no Was some kind of event going on? Speech/performance of important/famous person... inauguration of president maybe? nothing at all like this - the circumstances in which I would have been arrested but for my lack of umbrella were the most ordinary and commonplace in the world | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3710 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is the specific building relevant? Is it a public building? A bar? Restaurant? Grocery store? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 1017 Registered: 5-2007 |
Is the specific building relevant? yes Is it a public building? A bar? Restaurant? Grocery store? this is closest | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3714 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is it another type of store? Hardware store? Umbrella store? Clothing store? Walmart-type superstore? Convenience store? General store? | ||
| Kdoc (Kdoc)
New member Username: Kdoc Post Number: 1074 Registered: 7-2001 |
so you were leaving a store in the rain? and you would have been accused of shoplifting if - you had been carrying an umbrella and/or it wasn't raining? were you taking something out of the store without paying/ were you actually taking an item from the shop to the door to see it in daylight (for example to check it's true colour) and, if you had been carrying an umbrella it would have looked as though you intended to leave the store without paying? but because it was raining, and you didn't have an umbrella, it would be much less likely that you were actually intending to leave the store? had you in fact left your umbrella in the store? to show that you were not actually intending to leave with the item? | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 2809 Registered: 1-2007 |
Did the shop actually sell Umbrellas? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 1018 Registered: 5-2007 |
Is it another type of store? Hardware store? Umbrella store? Clothing store? Walmart-type superstore? Convenience store? this one General store? so you were leaving a store in the rain? not quite, but that was my intention and you would have been accused of shoplifting if - you had been carrying an umbrella and/or it wasn't raining? I would have been accused of shoplifting if either it had not been raining or I had carried my umbrella were you taking something out of the store without paying? no were you actually taking an item from the shop to the door to see it in daylight (for example to check it's true colour) and, if you had been carrying an umbrella it would have looked as though you intended to leave the store without paying? no but because it was raining, and you didn't have an umbrella, it would be much less likely that you were actually intending to leave the store? no had you in fact left your umbrella in the store? no - I had left it at home to show that you were not actually intending to leave with the item? no Did the shop actually sell Umbrellas? no | ||
| Mattiel (Mattiel)
New member Username: Mattiel Post Number: 251 Registered: 6-2005 |
Relevant how long have you been inside the store? Was it raining when you had entered the store? Relevant? Did you or your clothes get wet because of the rain at any moment? Alternatively, were your shoes dirty because of the rain, or of some rainy water puddles? If so, before you entered the store? After? Relevant all this? | ||
| Woodworm (Woodworm)
New member Username: Woodworm Post Number: 1824 Registered: 3-2006 |
Did you put a plastic bag on your head? | ||
| Peter365 (Peter365)
New member Username: Peter365 Post Number: 2813 Registered: 1-2007 |
Inspired guess Woodworm, maybe it was a newspaper. | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 1019 Registered: 5-2007 |
Relevant how long have you been inside the store? no, but I had been there about two minutes, as usual Was it raining when you had entered the store? yes Relevant? yes Did you or your clothes get wet because of the rain at any moment? yes Alternatively, were your shoes dirty because of the rain, or of some rainy water puddles? no If so, before you entered the store? no After? b{no} Relevant all this? no Did you put a plastic bag on your head? I was shopping, not trying to commit suicide, although I confess that the former has on more than one occasion encouraged me to contemplate the latter Inspired guess Woodworm, maybe it was a newspaper. maybe what was a newspaper? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3808 Registered: 4-2010 |
I believe Peter means "did you put a newspaper over your head" - did you? If so, is the newspaper relevant? Did you use any means other than an umbrella to keep dry? Relevant exactly what? | ||
| Biograd (Biograd)
New member Username: Biograd Post Number: 950 Registered: 6-2008 |
Was the relevant factor in your hypothetical arrest your wet clothing? I'm thinking that maybe someone was shoplifting something wet/filled with water. If it had not been raining, it would have been hard to explain wet clothes unless you handled something wet in the store, and therefore you would have been a suspect. And similarly, had you carried an umbrella, your clothes should have been kept dry, so wet clothes would again indicate you had handled something wet in the store. | ||
| Mattiel (Mattiel)
New member Username: Mattiel Post Number: 266 Registered: 6-2005 |
Taking one step back, did "the others" accuse you of shoplifting? And you could prove your innocence thanks to the fact that you had no umbrella? Or they didn't even accuse you, because they had already noticed you had no umbrella? If they did accuse you, was it because of some particular characteristics you had? Because of some physical/appearance reason? Maybe being wet? Because of the way you behaved? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 1020 Registered: 5-2007 |
I believe Peter means "did you put a newspaper over your head" - did you? I did not If so, is the newspaper relevant? no Did you use any means other than an umbrella to keep dry? no Relevant exactly what? no Was the relevant factor in your hypothetical arrest your wet clothing? no I'm thinking that maybe someone was shoplifting something wet/filled with water. If it had not been raining, it would have been hard to explain wet clothes unless you handled something wet in the store, and therefore you would have been a suspect. And similarly, had you carried an umbrella, your clothes should have been kept dry, so wet clothes would again indicate you had handled something wet in the store. nobody was actually shoplifting anything Taking one step back, did "the others" accuse you of shoplifting? yes And you could prove your innocence thanks to the fact that you had no umbrella? yes, indeed Or they didn't even accuse you, because they had already noticed you had no umbrella? no If they did accuse you, was it because of some particular characteristics you had? no Because of some physical/appearance reason? no Maybe being wet? no, but... Because of the way you behaved? no | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3841 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did they realize that because you were wet, you could not be able to conceal anything? Is the item/items they accused you of shoplifting relevant? Was the store indoors? (Sounds like a dumb question, but I know some stores without roofs - just asking.) And just a note - you have a puzzle in Limbo you may want to rescue.... | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 1021 Registered: 5-2007 |
Did they realize that because you were wet, you could not be able to conceal anything? no Is the item/items they accused you of shoplifting relevant? well, it was a magazine - a copy of New Scientist, in fact Was the store indoors? yes (Sounds like a dumb question, but I know some stores without roofs - just asking.) | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3868 Registered: 4-2010 |
Were you accused of stealing that magazine from that store? Is the important factor that you were wet? Did you point out that you would have had to conceal a magazine under wet clothes? Which would have ruined the magazine and made the shoplifting pointless? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 1022 Registered: 5-2007 |
Were you accused of stealing that magazine from that store? yes Is the important factor that you were wet? no, but... Did you point out that you would have had to conceal a magazine under wet clothes? no Which would have ruined the magazine it would not have done - it was not raining very hard and made the shoplifting pointless? | ||
| Lynne (Lynne)
New member Username: Lynne Post Number: 4670 Registered: 12-2000 |
Did they think that a stolen magazine could be hidden inside a closed umbrella? | ||
| Mattiel (Mattiel)
New member Username: Mattiel Post Number: 274 Registered: 6-2005 |
Did you actually have a copy of this magazine with you? Before entering the store? And they accused you to have stolen it from their store? If so, was your copy wet? dry? How were you carrying it, in your pockets? In a bag? Hidden under your clothes (maybe to avoid it getting wet)? | ||
| Woubit (Woubit)
Moderator Username: Woubit Post Number: 1023 Registered: 5-2007 |
Did they think that a stolen magazine could be hidden inside a closed umbrella? well, thinking wasn't the sort of thing they went in for generally, but help is at hand... Did you actually have a copy of this magazine with you? indeed I did Before entering the store? yes And they accused you to have stolen it from their store? exactly and precisely so If so, was your copy wet? this one dry? How were you carrying it, in your pockets? In a bag? Hidden under your clothes (maybe to avoid it getting wet)? none of the above, but that will do... ***** SPOILER ***** The strange thing about all this was that I went into what I guess is called a "convenience store" next to my local Underground (subway) station as I have done almost every day for the last eight years. I bought my usual sandwich, I trotted up as usual to the counter to pay for it, and the bloke behind the counter demanded another £3 and change for the copy of New Scientist that I was also carrying. In vain did I protest the truth: that I had the magazine before I entered the store. Our man was convinced that I had nicked it from their stock and was trying to avoid paying for it. He was on the point of telephoning for the police when a thought struck me. "Look", I said, "it's raining outside. And this magazine is wet". (It was, for the downpour had been sudden, and I carried nothing to shield either me or my possessions from its blast.) "Now, how did it get wet if I'd just pinched it from your shelves?" To his lasting credit, the bloke (who was newly employed at the store and did not, as its other employees did, know me by sight) reacted both speedily and graciously - I was treated to a free sandwich. But if I'd carried an umbrella, I'd have been arrested. Well done Mattiel, well done the bloke at Budgens. | ||
| Mattiel (Mattiel)
New member Username: Mattiel Post Number: 294 Registered: 6-2005 |
Nice puzzle! | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 3957 Registered: 4-2010 |
Almost turned into an "inconvenience store," I see...excellent puzzle, and excellent quick thinking on your part! | ||
| Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
New member Username: Kayleetonkslupin Post Number: 123 Registered: 9-2010 |
yay for free sandwich, hurrah for woubit puzzles! sorry to see I came across this puzzle so late, but free sandwiches are always good. |
