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Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 14, 2010 - 10:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

He saw his wife. He became angry, which proved his downfall.

All of the he/his/hims refer to one H/A/M.
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 14, 2010 - 10:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Any other people than he and his wife relevant? Anything relevant about him? his wife?

Is location relevant? what about era?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 14, 2010 - 10:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Any other people than he and his wife relevant? Yes. Anything relevant about him? Yes. his wife? Yes.

Is location relevant? Yes. what about era? Yes.
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 14, 2010 - 10:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

One more person relevant? More than one?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 14, 2010 - 10:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

One more person relevant? One in particular. More than one? But eight or nine others are involved.
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 14, 2010 - 10:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The one particularly relevant, HAM? HAF?

Were all the people together when the man saw his wife?

Is the era (LTPF list of centuries, please)
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 14, 2010 - 11:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The one particularly relevant, HAM? This. HAF?

Were all the people together when the man saw his wife? Yes.

Is the era (LTPF list of centuries, please) 20th.
Eli (Eli)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 14, 2010 - 11:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is location relevant as in spesific geographical location? or just the type of place they are at when the man sees his wife?

Does he think his wife is having an affair with the other man? Is she having an affair?

Does the husband see something that he misunderstands?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 14, 2010 - 11:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he see his wife in person? On television? On video? Is this a military puzzle?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 14, 2010 - 11:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is location relevant as in spesific geographical location? Yes. or just the type of place they are at when the man sees his wife? This too, in a sense.

Does he think his wife is having an affair with the other man? Yes. Is she having an affair? No.

Does the husband see something that he misunderstands? Yes.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 15, 2010 - 1:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You missed my questions...
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 15, 2010 - 4:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he see his wife in person? No. On television? No. On video? No. Is this a military puzzle? Yes.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 15, 2010 - 1:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he see a picture of his wife? Was it taken by surveillance? Was it a mug shot?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 15, 2010 - 3:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he see a picture of his wife? Yes. Was it taken by surveillance? Was it a mug shot? Neither.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 15, 2010 - 4:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Relevant where the picture was taken? Who took the picture? Is the picture a posed shot? Candid shot? Is anything in the picture other than the wife relevant? If the wife had not been in the picture, would the story still work?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, September 16, 2010 - 1:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Relevant where the picture was taken? Generally yes, and FA. Who took the picture? No. Is the picture a posed shot? Yope. Candid shot? Yes. Is anything in the picture other than the wife relevant? Yes. If the wife had not been in the picture, would the story still work? Possibly, but not as well.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, September 16, 2010 - 3:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the picture taken indoors? Outdoors? Is the picture authentic? Fabricated?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, September 16, 2010 - 4:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the picture taken indoors? Outdoors? Irrelevant. Is the picture authentic? Yope. Fabricated? Yes.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, September 16, 2010 - 12:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was his wife in the original photo? Added in later? Was something else added in? Taken out? Was the fabrication intended to get the man upset? To ensure his downfall?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, September 16, 2010 - 12:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was his wife in the original photo? Hint: No photo. Added in later? No. Was something else added in? Yes. Taken out? Was the fabrication intended to get the man upset? Yes. To ensure his downfall? Yes.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, September 16, 2010 - 12:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the picture a drawing? A sketch? A painting?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, September 16, 2010 - 9:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the picture a drawing? A sketch? A painting? This.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, September 16, 2010 - 10:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Relevant who painted the original? Did Our Hero? Did his wife? Did the same person who painted the original add the later detail?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Friday, September 17, 2010 - 12:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Relevant who painted the original? Not really. Did Our Hero? Did his wife? Did the same person who painted the original add the later detail? Yes, and FA.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, September 17, 2010 - 1:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the FA in describing the thing added as a "detail"? Was the something added another person? A thing? Was something changed but not added?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Friday, September 17, 2010 - 1:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the FA in describing the thing added as a "detail"? It refers to the word "add." This may not actually be an FA, now I think of it. I assumed you thought that the detail was added later, but the painting and the detail were produced at the same time as a single picture. Was the something added another person? A thing? Neither. Was something changed but not added? No.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, September 18, 2010 - 2:42 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it a portrait of the man's wife? Or did she just happen to be in the scene painted?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, September 18, 2010 - 3:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it a portrait of the man's wife? Yes. Or did she just happen to be in the scene painted?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, September 18, 2010 - 4:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the wife's clothing relevant? The background of the portrait? Was the detail part of the wife's body? Something she was wearing? A piece of jewelry?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, September 18, 2010 - 2:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the wife's clothing relevant? You could say that. The background of the portrait? No. Was the detail part of the wife's body? Something she was wearing? A piece of jewelry? No to all.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, September 18, 2010 - 3:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the painter insert another person into the painting?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, September 18, 2010 - 4:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the painter insert another person into the painting? No.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, September 18, 2010 - 7:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the painter change something about the wife? Add something to her? An article of clothing? Is the wife wearing any clothing in the painting?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, September 18, 2010 - 8:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the painter change something about the wife? No. Add something to her? No. An article of clothing? Is the wife wearing any clothing in the painting? No. Excellent question.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, September 19, 2010 - 2:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the wife supposed to be nude in the painting? Was the painting intended for the husband's eyes only? Was the wife a model?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Sunday, September 19, 2010 - 3:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the wife supposed to be nude in the painting? Yes. Was the painting intended for the husband's eyes only? Yes -- though plenty of other people saw it, only the husband is relevant. Was the wife a model? No.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, September 19, 2010 - 3:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

In the painting, was she on a bed? Was the bed her own? Did the thing added make it seem like the bed belonged to someone else? So it would give an appearance that she was unfaithful?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Sunday, September 19, 2010 - 4:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

In the painting, was she on a bed? Irr. Was the bed her own? Did the thing added make it seem like the bed belonged to someone else? So it would give an appearance that she was unfaithful? Yes.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, September 20, 2010 - 1:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the painter insert another person into the painting? In the background?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, September 20, 2010 - 2:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the painter insert another person into the painting? No. In the background? No.
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Monday, September 20, 2010 - 7:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Between last seeing his wife in person and seeing the picture, how much time did pass: 1 day? 1 month? 1 year? more? Was she pregnant in the picture (or appeared to be)? Was our hero in the military? During a war or in peace time? In another country than the one his wife lives in? The 'downfall' refers to a professional set back, or a personal one (being fired as opposed to getting a divorce)? By any chance, did he attempt a suicide? If location is relevant, please [LTPF list of continents]
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, September 20, 2010 - 12:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Between last seeing his wife in person and seeing the picture, how much time did pass: 1 day? 1 month? Six months at least. 1 year? more? Was she pregnant in the picture (or appeared to be)? No. Was our hero in the military? Yes. During a war This. or in peace time? In another country than the one his wife lives in? Yes. The 'downfall' refers to a professional set back, You could call it this. or a personal one (being fired as opposed to getting a divorce)? By any chance, did he attempt a suicide? In a sense. If location is relevant, please [LTPF list of continents] Mediterranean (neither Europe, Africa or Asia).
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, September 20, 2010 - 1:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the man die? Is he murdered? Was there only one copy of the painting? Did he see the original? Did he see another copy? Relevant what country/continent his wife lives in? Or only that they're different?
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Monday, September 20, 2010 - 2:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

One of the islands of the Mediterranean? Or was he aboard a ship sailing in the sea? Did he attempt to take his own life? If so, did he succeed? Was any one else hurt in this attempt? If on a ship, did he intend / attempt to sink the vessel?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, September 20, 2010 - 9:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does the man die? No, but irrelevant. He easily could have. Is he murdered? No. Was there only one copy of the painting? Yes. Did he see the original? Yes. Did he see another copy? No. Relevant what country/continent his wife lives in? Yes. Or only that they're different? They aren't.

One of the islands of the Mediterranean? No. Or was he aboard a ship sailing in the sea? No. Did he attempt to take his own life? In a sense, but irrelevant. If so, did he succeed? No. Was any one else hurt in this attempt? No. If on a ship, did he intend / attempt to sink the vessel? No.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, September 20, 2010 - 9:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were they in North America? South America? Australia? Antarctica? Were they a long distance apart?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, September 20, 2010 - 9:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well, blooper:

Or only that they're different? They aren't.

Actually, they are. Oops.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, September 20, 2010 - 10:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the man in [LTPF list of continents]? The woman?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2010 - 1:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the man in [LTPF list of continents]? The husband was from Europe -- he wasn't there at the time of the puzzle. The woman? Was in Africa.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2010 - 3:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the man in Africa as well? Was the painting done in Africa? In Europe?
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Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2010 - 9:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So in the Mediterranean but neither Asia, Africa nor Europe, not on an island and not on a ship, correct? Hmmm, this leaves few options: was he flying? In a plane, helicopter, hot-air balloon? Was he from the paratroopers? Was he in or on some man-made structure at sea, but which cannot be classified as a ship? Was he on a piece of land? On a rock? Was he swimming randomly across the Mediterranean?
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Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2010 - 10:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the man in Africa as well? No. Was the painting done in Africa? This. In Europe?

So in the Mediterranean but neither Asia, Africa nor Europe, not on an island and not on a ship, correct? Correct. Hmmm, this leaves few options: was he flying? This. In a plane, This. helicopter, hot-air balloon? Was he from the paratroopers? No. Was he in or on some man-made structure at sea, but which cannot be classified as a ship? Was he on a piece of land? On a rock? Was he swimming randomly across the Mediterranean?
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Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2010 - 7:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he literally fall from the plane? Crash with the plane? If the former, did he jump or was thrown out?
Was his wife in Africa because there was her home? His home? Their home? His workplace (military base or such)? Was she detained? Did he know, before seeing the picture, that she is in Africa?
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Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2010 - 3:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he literally fall from the plane? Crash with the plane? This. If the former, did he jump or was thrown out? No.
Was his wife in Africa because there was her home? Yes. His home? Unknown, assume yes. Their home? His workplace (military base or such)? No. Was she detained? Yope. Did he know, before seeing the picture, that she is in Africa? Yes.
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Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2010 - 5:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he voluntarily crash with the plane? Was he the pilot? Was he the only one in the aircraft? Relevant what type of aircraft? (Fighther? Bomber? Reconnaissance?) Did someone show him the picture or did he find it aboard, by himself? If the latter: before take-off? En-route? Was he in a war-related mission? Or found out the story before and took the airplane to go and check out what was happening? To revenge? Upon seeing the picture, was he angry at his wife? The one who took the picture? Some other person(s)?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2010 - 9:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he try to crash into his home? To kill his wife? To kill someone else?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2010 - 1:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he voluntarily crash with the plane? No. Was he the pilot? Yes. Was he the only one in the aircraft? Yes. Relevant what type of aircraft? Yes. (Fighter? This. Bomber? Reconnaissance?) Did someone show him the picture Yope. or did he find it aboard, No. by himself? If the latter: before take-off? En-route? Was he in a war-related mission? Yes. Or found out the story before and took the airplane to go and check out what was happening? No. To revenge? This. Upon seeing the picture, was he angry at his wife? Irr. The one who took the picture? It's not a photo. Some other person(s)? This (singular.)

Did he try to crash into his home? No. To kill his wife? No. To kill someone else? Yes.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2010 - 1:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he try to kill the painter? The person whom he assumed his wife was unfaithful with?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2010 - 1:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he try to kill the painter? No. The person whom he assumed his wife was unfaithful with? Yes.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2010 - 3:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he know the person he thought was cuckolding him? Was it a man? A woman? (It's the LTPF, have to cover every option.) Did he crash into a house? The cuckolder's house?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2010 - 5:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he know the person he thought was cuckolding him? No. Was it a man? Yes. A woman? (It's the LTPF, have to cover every option.) Did he crash into a house? No. The cuckolder's house?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2010 - 5:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Slight clarification:

Did he know the person he thought was cuckolding him? No, though he had met him (for SVV of "met") several months previously.
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2010 - 8:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So he did not crash voluntarily: was he shot down? had engine or some other mechanical problems?

Is it relevant how he was planning to take revenge? Crash into a building where the relevant man lived? Use the arms on-board to kill kim? Land somewhere and go in pursuit of the rival? His planned revenge was to kill the rival? Or do some other thing?

Was the other man also a fighter pilot and a plane fight ensued or was likely to? Was he also in the military? Was he the same nationality as our hero? Fighting in the same army? An enemy -- whom he met in combat? Or in a detention facility?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2010 - 12:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So he did not crash voluntarily: was he shot down? Yes. had engine or some other mechanical problems?

Is it relevant how he was planning to take revenge? Yes. Crash into a building where the relevant man lived? No. Use the arms on-board to kill kim? Yes. Land somewhere No. and go in pursuit of the rival? Yes. His planned revenge was to kill the rival? Yes. Or do some other thing? No.

Was the other man also a fighter pilot No. and a plane fight ensued Yes. or was likely to? Was he also in the military? Yes. Was he the same nationality as our hero? No. Fighting in the same army? No. An enemy -- whom he met in combat? Yes. Or in a detention facility? Afterwards.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2010 - 12:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he shot down in a dogfight? Did he think the rival shot him down? The detail in the painting - was it an enemy uniform? Medal? Something military-related?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2010 - 12:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he shot down in a dogfight? Something like that. Did he think the rival shot him down? He did (or at any rate, the rival got credit). The detail in the painting - was it an enemy uniform? Medal? Something military-related? None of these.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2010 - 4:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the detail a flag?
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2010 - 4:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So -- we have a painting of his nude wife and a detail within that made him think she was unfaithful and why he came to this conclusion is the last thing to be found out. Correct?

If so, are anything of the following relevant (as details in the painting): other persons? animals? plants? minerals? if she is pictured indoors? outdoors? the surrounding scenes? (for indoors: an object in a room? a man's coat on a bed or on a chair? a picture on the wall?)
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2010 - 9:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the detail a flag? No.

So -- we have a painting of his nude wife and a detail within that made him think she was unfaithful Yes, but the nude painting and the detail go together. Just one or the other won't do. and why he came to this conclusion is the last thing to be found out. Correct? No, you also have to figure out how he came to see this painting in the first place, and how this led to his downfall. There is significant background to this story which you haven't learned yet.

If so, are anything of the following relevant (as details in the painting): other persons? animals? plants? minerals? None of these. if she is pictured indoors? outdoors? She's not pictured in or out of doors. the surrounding scenes? (for indoors: an object in a room? a man's coat on a bed or on a chair? a picture on the wall?) And there is no surrounding scene.
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2010 - 9:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Back to the drawing board then...

She is not pictured in or out doors and there's no surrounding scene: is it a picture at all (oil on canvas? relevant what type of picture?)? is she a nude? maybe multiplicated for use on stamps or cards? is she pictured as an allegory for something? Justice? Love? The lack of indoors or outdoors setting: is she painted against a white background? Is their a tertium datur to the dichotomy of in/out-doors? Should we be more laterally thinking?

Trying more: was his wife in the picture at all? Or something that our hero, laterally thinking, of course, believed that couldn't be painted without his wife being unfaithful? Can we replace the painting with a photo and still have the same result?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2010 - 10:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Back to the drawing board then...

She is not pictured in or out doors and there's no surrounding scene: is it a picture at all Yes. (oil on canvas? Exact medium irrelevant. Definitely not on canvas; what it is on is very relevant. relevant what type of picture?)? is she a nude? Yep. maybe multiplicated for use on stamps or cards? No, unique. is she pictured as an allegory for something? No. Justice? Love? The lack of indoors or outdoors setting: is she painted against a white background? No. Is their a tertium datur to the dichotomy of in/out-doors? Hm... not really. Should we be more laterally thinking? Yep.

Trying more: was his wife in the picture at all? Yes. Or something that our hero, laterally thinking, of course, believed that couldn't be painted without his wife being unfaithful? Something like that. Can we replace the painting with a photo and still have the same result? No.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2010 - 10:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the color of the painting relevant? The color of the object?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2010 - 10:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the color of the painting relevant? The color of the object? No to both.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2010 - 10:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the painting on wood? Paper? On a wall? A building? On the ceiling?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2010 - 10:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the painting on wood? Paper? On a wall? Of sorts... A building? On the ceiling? None of the others.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2010 - 11:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the painting on the plane?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2010 - 11:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the painting on the plane? Not on his.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2010 - 11:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it on another plane? That he was fighting against? The rival's plane?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2010 - 11:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it on another plane? That he was fighting against? The rival's plane? Yes to all.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2010 - 11:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the rival flying his plane? Someone else? Was the painting supposed to be painted on Our Hero's plane?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2010 - 11:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the rival flying his plane? Whose plane?

Y'know, I think we'd better name these characters. Our hero is named Guido, and the other guy is named Harold.


Someone else? Was the painting supposed to be painted on Our Hero's plane? No.
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2010 - 11:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, is this true: Guido is out on a mission. He sees his enemy, Harold, flying a plane with Guido's wife painted on Harold's plane... A fight ensues?

Is Harold a British guy? Guido -- Italian? Relevant? Is this a true story -- because by now it seems unbelievable, but sure wonderful if true.
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Friday, September 24, 2010 - 12:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, is this true: Guido is out on a mission. He sees his enemy, Harold, flying a plane with Guido's wife painted on Harold's plane... A fight ensues? Yes, but there's quite a bit more to this story.

Is Harold a British guy? American. Guido -- Italian? Yes. Relevant? Yes. Is this a true story -- because by now it seems unbelievable, but sure wonderful if true. Supposedly it's true. I've encountered it more than once in factual books, but I've also heard it's apocryphal.

As a hint, Harold is a lateral thinker.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, September 24, 2010 - 1:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I don't think we've asked yet - is Guido's wife actually unfaithful? With Harold?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Friday, September 24, 2010 - 1:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I don't think we've asked yet - is Guido's wife actually unfaithful? No. With Harold?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, September 24, 2010 - 1:58 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the fight involve only the two planes? Or is there a third involved?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Friday, September 24, 2010 - 2:22 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the fight involve only the two planes? Yes. Or is there a third involved? Yes.
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Friday, September 24, 2010 - 4:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Or is there a third involved? Indirectly, yes... but mostly irrelevant.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, September 24, 2010 - 1:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Harold shoot down Guido? Did the third plane?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Friday, September 24, 2010 - 5:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Harold shoot down Guido? Yes, with a small ish. Did the third plane? No.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, September 24, 2010 - 5:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Harold shoot Guido's plane? Were the shots the main cause of the plane crash? Did he shoot Guido?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Friday, September 24, 2010 - 5:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Harold shoot Guido's plane? Not personally. Were the shots the main cause of the plane crash? Yes. Did he shoot Guido? No.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, September 24, 2010 - 6:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was more than one person in Harold's plane?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Friday, September 24, 2010 - 6:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was more than one person in Harold's plane? Yes.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, September 24, 2010 - 7:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the second person in Harold's plane shot down Guido? Was Harold flying while the other was shooting? Or was the other person flying and shooting?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Friday, September 24, 2010 - 7:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the second person in Harold's plane shot down Guido? There were more than two. Was Harold flying while the other was shooting? Correct. Or was the other person flying and shooting?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, September 24, 2010 - 9:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Might you perchance recap?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, September 25, 2010 - 4:32 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Let's see...

Guido was an Italian fighter pilot during WWII. Unexpectedly, Guido saw a picture of his wife (and something else relevant) painted on Harold's American plane. He did something which might be considered suicidal, but Harold's gunners shot him down. A third plane (which is not present) is relevant to the background of the story. Guido's wife (whose name is Gina, btw) lives apart from her husband, in Africa.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, September 25, 2010 - 2:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he try to crash into the other plane?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, September 25, 2010 - 5:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he try to crash into the other plane? At one point, yes.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, September 25, 2010 - 7:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he try to shoot down the other plane?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, September 25, 2010 - 7:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he try to shoot down the other plane? Yes.

Hm, wait, which plane are we talking about?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, September 25, 2010 - 7:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he try to crash into Harold's plane? The third one? Shoot down Harold's plane? The third one?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, September 25, 2010 - 7:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he try to crash into Harold's plane? Yes. The third one? No. Shoot down Harold's plane? Yes. The third one? Yes.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, September 25, 2010 - 7:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Plane 3 come to Harold's assistance?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, September 25, 2010 - 7:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Plane 3 come to Harold's assistance? No.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, September 25, 2010 - 7:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Plane 3 try to stop Guido? Assist Guido?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, September 25, 2010 - 7:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Plane 3 try to stop Guido? Assist Guido? Neither.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, September 25, 2010 - 8:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Plane 3 a fighter plane? Relevant?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, September 25, 2010 - 9:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Plane 3 a fighter plane? No. Relevant? Yes.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, September 25, 2010 - 9:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Plane 3 a bomber? Stealth plane? Passenger plane?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, September 25, 2010 - 9:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Plane 3 a bomber? This. Stealth plane? Passenger plane?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, September 25, 2010 - 9:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Plane 3 drop a bomb? Is the pilot of Plane 3 relevant?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, September 25, 2010 - 11:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Plane 3 drop a bomb? No. Is the pilot of Plane 3 relevant? Yes.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, September 26, 2010 - 1:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the pilot of Plane 3 the painter?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Sunday, September 26, 2010 - 6:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the pilot of Plane 3 the painter? No.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, September 26, 2010 - 9:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the pilot of Plane 3 (can we call him Olson?) related to Guido? Harold? Gina? The painter? Does he know any of those people?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Sunday, September 26, 2010 - 11:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the pilot of Plane 3 (can we call him Olson? FA.) related to Guido? Harold? Technically... Gina? The painter? Does he know any of those people?
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Posted on Sunday, September 26, 2010 - 11:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the pilot of Plane 3 a female? Gina perhaps?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, September 26, 2010 - 11:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the pilot of Plane 3 a woman? Gina? Harold's wife?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, September 27, 2010 - 12:09 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the pilot of Plane 3 a woman? Gina? Harold's wife? No to all. Significant FA.
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Monday, September 27, 2010 - 12:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the third plane have a pilot at all? Could you please recap again?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, September 27, 2010 - 12:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the third plane have a pilot at all? Yes. Could you please recap again? Not much has changed from the previous recap. You need to develop the significant background that goes back before Harold's gunners shoot Guido down. The third plane is part of this.

As a hint, it is NOT a coincidence that Gina's picture is on Harold's plane.
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Monday, September 27, 2010 - 8:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the third plane flying at all at the time of the event? Or was grounded? Was this plane: Italian? American? German? British? Other? Relevant?

Was Gina's picture on the plane as a signal for someone? Someone in the air? Someone on the ground?

Was Gina a prisoner of the American forces? Aiding them?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, September 27, 2010 - 12:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the third plane flying at all at the time of the event? No. Or was grounded? Not in that sense. Was this plane: Italian? American? This. German? British? Other? Relevant?

Was Gina's picture on the plane as a signal for someone? This. Someone in the air? This. Someone on the ground?

Was Gina a prisoner of the American forces? No. Aiding them? Not deliberately.
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Monday, September 27, 2010 - 12:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry, I meant to ask if the third plane was on the ground at the time.

Someone in the air: one person? more? allied? enemy? in a plane? if so, allied aircraft? enemy?

The 3rd plane is relevant: before the event? during it? after it?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, September 27, 2010 - 9:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry, I meant to ask if the third plane was on the ground at the time. At the time of the puzzle statement? Well, technically...

Someone in the air: Huh? one person? more? allied? enemy? in a plane? if so, allied aircraft? enemy?

The 3rd plane is relevant: before the event? This. during it? after it?
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Monday, September 27, 2010 - 10:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

[posted on 12:23pm]
Was Gina's picture on the plane as a signal for someone? This. Someone in the air? This.
[posted on 12:55 pm]
Someone in the air: Huh? one person? more? allied? enemy? in a plane? if so, allied aircraft? enemy?

someone in the air from 2nd post referenced something in the air from the 1st
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, September 27, 2010 - 10:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ah. Thanks.

Someone in the air: one person? Yes. more? allied? enemy? This. in a plane? Yes. if so, allied aircraft? b{This. Excellent question.} enemy?
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Monday, September 27, 2010 - 10:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Let me put a recap. Please confirm it or infirm it accordingly: Harold flew with Gina's picture on the aircraft. That was some signal for an enemy in a enemy aircraft (presumably Italian?)

Was it a trap involved? The referenced enemy: a POW? Was Guido piloting an allied aircraft? I have the feeling the we are close and circling around
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Monday, September 27, 2010 - 10:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I made a mess. So an enemy was in an allied aircraft? Guido being the enemy, is the 3rd plane relevant? Or some other plane? Where do you get these puzzles? :=)
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 1:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Let me put a recap. Please confirm it or infirm it accordingly: Harold flew with Gina's picture on the aircraft. Correct. That was some signal for an enemy Yes. in a enemy aircraft No. (presumably Italian?) Yes.

Was it a trap involved? Yes. The referenced enemy: a POW? No. Was Guido piloting an allied aircraft? Yes. I have the feeling the we are close and circling around You're getting closer, yes.

I made a mess. So an enemy was in an allied aircraft? Yes. Guido being the enemy, is the 3rd plane relevant? Yes. Or some other plane? Others are mildly relevant, but they're not important. To solve the puzzle you only need to work out these three. Where do you get these puzzles? :=) I love military and aviation history.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 2:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK, so just to make things super clear....

Were Guido and Harold on the same side? Guido and Plane 3? Guido and the pilot of Plane 3? Harold and Plane 3? Harold and the pilot of Plane 3?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 2:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK, so just to make things super clear....

Were Guido and Harold on the same side? No. Guido and Plane 3? No. Guido and the pilot of Plane 3? No. Harold and Plane 3? Yes. Harold and the pilot of Plane 3? Yes, FA.
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 6:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok, two things to be put straight: #1 Guido was the enemy, but he did pilot an allied aircraft? Was the aircraft stolen? Was he in the service of the US military but believed to be not loyal?

#2: The FA that keeps coming, about the pilot of plane 3: Did the plane 3 ever had a pilot? Was supposed to have one? Was the plane ever flying? Was it a normal plane or an image of such plane? Wild guess, was the 3rd plane simply in the picture, next to Gina?

The picture with Gina really depicted her or was simply something that made Guido think of his wife?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 12:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok, two things to be put straight: #1 Guido was the enemy, Yes. but he did pilot an allied aircraft? Yes. Was the aircraft stolen? Captured. Was he in the service of the US military but believed to be not loyal? Not this.

#2: The FA that keeps coming, about the pilot of plane 3: Did the plane 3 ever had a pilot? Yes. Was supposed to have one? Yes. Was the plane ever flying? Yes. Was it a normal plane This. or an image of such plane? Wild guess, was the 3rd plane simply in the picture, next to Gina? No.

The picture with Gina really depicted her Yes -- though the naked part may have been imaginative. or was simply something that made Guido think of his wife? Oh, that too.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 12:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Over the course of the story, is Plane 3 on the ground? In the air? Does it ever shoot at Guido? At Harold? Is it able to?
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 12:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Guido -- by piloting a captured aircraft -- trying to set a trap for the Americans? Or was the other way around? Relevant how the plane was captured?

The naked part may have been imaginative: was there a woman with no clothing depicted? Was Guido able to see it? Was the picture on the plane fuselage? The wings? Is it relevant? Did the name 'Gina' appear also? Maybe as an acronym for something? Or part of a larger inscription?

Before the event, were the two planes engaged in combat? Did the Americans know that the other plane was piloted by the enemy?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 9:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Over the course of the story, is Plane 3 on the ground? Yesish. In the air? Yes. Does it ever shoot at Guido? No. At Harold? No. Is it able to? Yope.

Was Guido -- by piloting a captured aircraft -- trying to set a trap for the Americans? Or was the other way around? Relevant how the plane was captured?

The naked part may have been imaginative: was there a woman with no clothing depicted? Irr, assume yes if you like, as it's kinda an aviation trope to have naked women on the side of your plane. Was Guido able to see it? Yes. Was the picture on the plane fuselage? This. The wings? Is it relevant? Only in that I've never seen a plane with a naked woman on its wings. Did the name 'Gina' appear also? Yes! This is the detail you were missing. Maybe as an acronym for something? No. Or part of a larger inscription? No, just the name.

Before the event, were the two planes engaged in combat? Before the puzzle statement? These two planes, no. Did the Americans know that the other plane was piloted by the enemy? At the time of the puzzle statement, yes.
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 10:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Gina, pretty ballerina... (I know that we are close but somehow missing an essential element)

Some questions missed above... Was Guido -- by piloting a captured aircraft -- trying to set a trap for the Americans? Or was the other way around? Relevant how the plane was captured?

Was the mere name that drove Guido 'crazy'? Anyway, I cannot go further before the questions above are solved.
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 11:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Gina, pretty ballerina... (I know that we are close but somehow missing an essential element)

Some questions missed above... Was Guido -- by piloting a captured aircraft -- trying to set a trap for the Americans? Yes. Or was the other way around? Also yes. Relevant how the plane was captured? No.

Was the mere name that drove Guido 'crazy'? That and the image. Anyway, I cannot go further before the questions above are solved.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2010 - 12:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Guido know the Americans were trying to trap him? Did the Americans know Guido was going to try to trap them? Was the painting part of the trap?
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2010 - 9:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I will try to post a short recap, please confirm if correct:

Harold (American, flying an American plane) meets Guido (Italian, flying a captured American plane) while in mid-air. Guido sees a naked image of his wife on the fuselage of the plane (but that is largely irrelevant) and also her name: Gina. He is enraged and tries to somehow attack Harold's plane, but is shot down. Harold and Guido are piloting fighter aircraft and they both try to set up a trap for the other. A mysterious 3rd plane, this time a bomber, which, when these events happen, is yesish on the ground and yes in the air (takeoff? or was simply on the ground and naturally surrounded by air?), is also relevant. Gina was at this time in Africa and helping the Americans (though not intentionally). Something relevant has happened before the incident with the two fighter planes.
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2010 - 10:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Guido know the Americans were trying to trap him? No. Did the Americans know Guido was going to try to trap them? At the time of the puzzle statement, yes. Was the painting part of the trap? Yes.

Harold (American, flying an American plane) meets Guido (Italian, flying a captured American plane) Correct. while in mid-air. Guido sees a naked image of his wife on the fuselage of the plane (but that is largely irrelevant) The nakedness is - his wife's likeness is entirely relevant. and also her name: Gina. Correct. He is enraged and tries to somehow attack Harold's plane, but is shot down. Correct. Harold and Guido are piloting fighter aircraft No, just Guido. and they both try to set up a trap for the other. Correct. A mysterious 3rd plane, this time a bomber, Correct. which, when these events happen, is yesish on the ground Correct. and yes in the air No - it was in the air at the time of its relevance, but is not anymore. (takeoff? or was simply on the ground and naturally surrounded by air?), is also relevant. Gina was at this time in Africa and helping the Americans (though not intentionally). Correct. Something relevant has happened before the incident with the two fighter Only one fighter. planes. Correct.
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2010 - 10:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok ... yesish on the ground for the 3rd plane -- was it shot down? By Guido? Is its pilot still alive? So Harold didn't pilot a fighter... Incidentally, was he piloting also a bomber?

By American 'trapping' should we understand that they try to trap any Italian fighter plane? Or just Guido's?

By the Italian 'trapping' should we understand that it consisted in attacking the planes with captured aircraft, thus enabling more time for maneuver before the other ones were aware that there were enemy planes, as opposed to allied ones?

Was Gina depicted on the plane because she happened to be a nice woman, without anyone (from the American side) recognizing that she has some connection with an Italian soldier?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2010 - 11:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ok ... yesish on the ground for the 3rd plane -- was it shot down? Yes. The 'ish' accounts for it being shot down over the sea. By Guido? Yes. Is its pilot still alive? Yes. So Harold didn't pilot a fighter... Incidentally, was he piloting also a bomber? Yes.

By American 'trapping' should we understand that they try to trap any Italian fighter plane? Or just Guido's? This.

By the Italian 'trapping' should we understand that it consisted in attacking the planes with captured aircraft, thus enabling more time for maneuver before the other ones were aware that there were enemy planes, as opposed to allied ones? Correct.

Was Gina depicted on the plane because she happened to be a nice woman, without anyone (from the American side) recognizing that she has some connection with an Italian soldier? Incorrect. You are getting closer and closer to solution.
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2010 - 11:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Still puzzles me why they tried to trap a fighter with a bomber. But I guess this why this is a puzzle after all

So, my understanding so far: Some time before, in an encounter, Guido, piloting a captured American aircraft, shot down the 3rd plane. Maybe Harold was also in the American formation?

The Americans somehow find out which was the mysterious pilot who shot down their plane: an Italian named Guido. They also found out that Guido's wife is within reach. So they organized another mission, after painting Gina on the plane, together with her name (was it simply her name or was a message attached? something like: "I like the Americans better. Bye-Bye Guido. Signed: Gina"?) Guido is furious, tries to attack the plane in an unsound manner and is shot down.

Is the above correct? Hopefully so, what we have to determine next: how the Americans found out that Guido (and not Luigi) was piloting the plane? How did they found out about his wife being within reach? And how they thought to 'trap' him by using a painting?

One more set of questions: When the bombers approached, was Guido on ground? Did someone tell him: "Guido, the Americans are coming again and one plane has your wife on it?"
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2010 - 12:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Still puzzles me why they tried to trap a fighter with a bomber. But I guess this why this is a puzzle after all Hint: Technically, it wasn't a bomber.

So, my understanding so far: Some time before, in an encounter, Guido, piloting a captured American aircraft, shot down the 3rd plane. Maybe Harold was also in the American formation? Technically, yes...

The Americans somehow find out which was the mysterious pilot who shot down their plane: an Italian named Guido. Yep. They also found out that Guido's wife is within reach. Yep. So they organized another mission, after painting Gina on the plane, together with her name (was it simply her name or was a message attached? Just her name. something like: "I like the Americans better. Bye-Bye Guido. Signed: Gina"?) No, but this statement is quite relevant. Guido is furious, tries to attack the plane in an unsound manner and is shot down. Yep.

Is the above correct? Hopefully so, what we have to determine next: how the Americans found out that Guido (and not Luigi) was piloting the plane? Irr. How did they found out about his wife being within reach? Irr. And how they thought to 'trap' him by using a painting? Relevant.

One more set of questions: When the bombers approached, was Guido on ground? Likely. Did someone tell him: "Guido, the Americans are coming again and one plane has your wife on it?" No.

You're extremely close to solution.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2010 - 1:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By painting Gina's likeness on the plane, were they trying to make it seem like Gina was unfaithful in marriage? Or to the Italian cause?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2010 - 1:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

By painting Gina's likeness on the plane, were they trying to make it seem like Gina was unfaithful in marriage? This, but it wasn't Gina they wanted Guido mad at. Or to the Italian cause? Irr.
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2010 - 1:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Gina depicted as suffering at the hands of the Americans? As being held hostage? As being abused?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2010 - 2:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Gina depicted as suffering at the hands of the Americans? As being held hostage? As being abused? None of these. Just unfaithful.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2010 - 4:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they want Guido to be mad at Harold? So that he would start shooting at Harold? And the Americans would then have a reason/an excuse to shoot him down?
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2010 - 7:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmm... let's try a different approach: Was there some piece of information that the Americans posessed about Guido that led them believe that they could implement this trap? Is it relevant to try out to find what it was? Was he known to be particularly jealous or anything like that?

Or should we concentrate simply on what the picture looked like? Were there any other relevants words in the picture or on the plane? Apart from her being naked and the word Gina appearing, was anything more relevant in the picture? Is it relevant that the name appeared there (I suppose Guido could recognize his wife without a name being mentioned)

To verify that I understand correctly: Harold's plane was not a fighter, but not technically a bomber? So was it some other kind of aircraft? Maybe a civilian one (or one that could be mistaken for a civilian one)?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, September 30, 2010 - 1:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You know, at this point I think I can just spoil. All that's left is technical details. So...

****************

Surprise Spoiler

****************

In 1943, an American P-38 fighter was captured by the Italians. An Italian pilot, Lt. Guido Rossi, flew it, still in American markings. He would look for lost and damaged B-17 bombers, give them the impression he was an American pilot offering to escort them home, then shoot them down once they lowered their guard.

One of the planes he shot down was flown by Lt. Harold Fisher.

Fisher, the only survivor, got hold of a YB-40, an experimental version of the B-17 that carried no bombs but did carry extra machine guns and ammunition. He learned that Rossi's wife lived in a city occupied by the Allies. He went to her home, took a picture, and had it painted on his plane along with her name: Gina. Then he joined bombing raids, acted like a lame duck, and waited for Rossi to turn up.

When he did, Fisher baited him with details of his (fictional) affair with Gina. Rossi lost his temper and attempted to attack at very close range, firing directly into Fisher's cockpit -- but the crew knew what was coming, and Fisher's gunners shot Rossi down.

Fisher was killed in the Berlin airlift several years later. Guido Rossi attended his funeral.

http://www.92ndma.org/miscellaneous/Newsletters/yb40gunship.d87.pdf
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, September 30, 2010 - 3:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This is definitely one of my favorite of your military/aviation stories/puzzles - nice one!
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Thursday, September 30, 2010 - 7:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A very nice one, indeed. It never occurred to me that the two guys were speaking at the time of the incident. Thanks.

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