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Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 6:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

They were known as the Deathless...or at least one of them was. The other was famed for conquering Death with magic, though history tells us he did, in fact, die.
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 6:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Real story? Failing that, from a book? movie? FYOI?

Death -- the only act that we are all bound to experience it at some point or another? Some other thing?

Gaming involved? Is Death a character in a play or movie?

More than two people involved? One 'Deathless' and one dead poor fellow who conquered Death? Both HAM? Religion involved?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 6:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Real story? Yope, I think, would be the right way to answer this.
Failing that, from a book? Two different books.
movie? Two different movies, of the aforementioned books.
FYOI? No.

Death -- the only act that we are all bound to experience it at some point or another? indeed
Some other thing? no

Gaming involved? Not really
Is Death a character in a play or movie? Not those movies.

More than two people involved? Only two relevant
One 'Deathless' and one dead poor fellow who conquered Death? Yes
Both HAM? Deathless = A/M but not H, other H/A/M
Religion involved?Er...yopishly for second one, I think, but not very relevant.
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Post Number: 425
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 6:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yope to real story in the sense that it never happened on Earth but could have happened? Or in the sense that it is 'real' because was featured in a book?

Were those SF books? Religious books? Fairy tales? Shot in the dark: the 'Dune' series relevant?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 7:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yope to real story in the sense that it never happened on Earth but could have happened? It's No to first one, Yesish to second one, more accurately...second person existed, but the deathlessness of second person is not historically accurate
Or in the sense that it is 'real' because was featured in a book? That works for both of them

Were those SF books? ...Hard to say. I believe the first character's books are shelved under SF/Fantasy at Barnes & Noble, but the second character is more children's/young adult fiction
Religious books? Only in the sense that both authors have Christian themes in their stories (not allegory) and I believe the real human was a Christian, though I may be wrong
Fairy tales? I wouldn't call them this
Shot in the dark: the 'Dune' series relevant?No
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 7:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Pouring some more questions:

-- Let's call the first one (Deathless) John and the other one Mark, ok?

-- John (A & M but not H): animal (other than human?)? robot?

-- Mark: Jesus? Would the puzzle work if the authors were Jews? Muslims? Some other religion?

-- Mark (the H): relevant where he lived? If so, please [LTPF list of continents].

For the whole setting: relevant the time?

Any of the following relevant: Alice in Wonderland? The wizzard of Oz? The Bible? Stories from Christian Andersen, Charles Perrault or the Grimm Brothers? Isaac Asimov's series 'The Foundation'?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 7:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Let's call the first one (Deathless) John and the other one Mark, ok? Sure, all right, lol

-- John (A & M but not H): animal (other than human?)? robot? None of these.

-- Mark: Jesus? No Would the puzzle work if the authors were Jews? Muslims? Some other religion? No idea. I suppose the books wouldn't have been written the way they were if the authors weren't Christians...though certain types of Christians have called both book series from the devil, which makes me laugh.

-- Mark (the H): relevant where he lived? It'll help you figure out who he is, I suppose. If so, please [LTPF list of continents]. Europe. And because I like you, the relevant nationality is French. :-p

For the whole setting: relevant the time? Two different times. The non-H was from a fictional "prehistory". Mark (the H) 14th-15th century.

Any of the following relevant: Alice in Wonderland? The wizzard of Oz? The Bible? Stories from Christian Andersen, Charles Perrault or the Grimm Brothers? Isaac Asimov's series 'The Foundation'? None of the above.
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 7:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Let's concentrate on Mark then: is he a famous person? a writer? a philosopher? a ruler? a wizzard? Hundred years war relevant?

The non-H: a spirit? ghost? god?

Heresy relevant? 'certain types of Christians' -- religious authorities? Thomas a Kempis relevant? Jan Hus?
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 7:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Alchemy relevant?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 7:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Let's concentrate on Mark then: is he a famous person? I think so
a writer? some say so
a philosopher? Haha...
a ruler? no
a wizzard? In the book, at least...lolol
Hundred years war relevant? I do not believe so, no

The non-H: a spirit? ghost? god? none of these

Heresy relevant? 'certain types of Christians' -- religious authorities? ...er, maybe?
Thomas a Kempis relevant?
Jan Hus? I do not know who these people are, so not likely
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 7:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does John have human form? Like a statue?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 7:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Religious authorities ARE relevant, but may be misleading. I think most of these certain Christians are not authorities...
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 7:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does John have human form? Like a statue? Human-ish form, but not like a statue, no.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 7:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is a specific Christian denomination relevant? Catholic? Orthodox? Protestant?
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 7:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Because I didn't manage to understand some of the answers above, I'll just stay and watch the story unfold.
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 7:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is a specific Christian denomination relevant? Not really relevant as such, but...Catholic?John's author was certainly this. And now I noticed something ironic about the name given to him, and am laughing like an idiot. Also, real Mark was this. Orthodox? NoProtestant?I think fictional-Mark's author is some form of this.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 7:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmmm...the storyline is starting to get a bit confusing. Could you please supply a recap?

Protestant Reformation relevant? Counter-Reformation relevant?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 8:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmmm...the storyline is starting to get a bit confusing.Sorry! Could you please supply a recap? Certainly. Two characters, one of whom is an adult male, but not human, and the second of which is a Human Adult Male, were at one point or another referred to as deathless or immortal for different reasons, though they both in fact died. The first character is entirely fictional, from a pre-history invented by a famous Catholic author. We have decided, most amusingly to me, to refer to the character as John. The second character, the H/A/M, is a real person, though the Christian author who mentioned him in her series portrayed him as a wizard and thusly, fictional. The real H/A/M was a French Roman Catholic alive during the 14th and 15th centuries, though his author makes him still alive in the late 20th century.

Protestant Reformation relevant?No, religion is really not important except that it may help you figure out who Mark is. Counter-Reformation relevant?Not in the least. You're OTWT.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 8:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Character 1 really named John? Was the Catholic author named John?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 8:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Character 1 really named John? Was the Catholic author named John? The Catholic author was indeed named John. *grin*
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 8:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You missed one of Rbruma's questions, which I will reproduce here....

Alchemy relevant?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 8:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You missed one of Rbruma's questions, which I will reproduce here....oops!! Sorry Rbruma...thanks much, Balin!!

Alchemy relevant?Yes, VERY relevant!!! for Mark, anyway!!!!
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 8:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So was Mark "deathless" through discovering the Elixir of Life?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 8:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So was Mark "deathless" through discovering the Elixir of Life? Indeed!! :-)
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 8:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So now we need to find out why John was considered "deathless," correct? Is his immortality in body? Spirit? Religion relevant to the character's immortality?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 8:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So now we need to find out why John was considered "deathless," correct? Yes, and also to identify him and Mark.
Is his immortality in body? Sort of.
Spirit? More this, though.
Religion relevant to the character's immortality? Well, his own people's beliefs are.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 8:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is John only spirit? Does he have a body? Is he part-human, part something-else?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 8:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is John only spirit? No
Does he have a body? Yes
Is he part-human, part something-else? He's not human at all.

Mahal take you, Balin...:-P I thought you'd catch on faster!!
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 8:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I should be asking this more often with you...is Tolkien relevant?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 8:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I should be asking this more often with you...is Tolkien relevant? I thought you got that when you deduced that the Catholic author was named John!!! *half frustrated, half amused look at Balin* Of course the Professor is relevant! *sticks tongue out* LOL!
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 8:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I know Tolkien's full name, but I typically think "J.R.R." not "John Robert Reuel"....yeah, should have gotten that earlier.

Is "John" an elf? Does he, at any point, possess the Ring?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 8:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I know Tolkien's full name, but I typically think "J.R.R." not "John Robert Reuel"....yeah, should have gotten that earlier. Could have sworn it was John *Ronald* Reuel...but anyway.

Is "John" an elf? Does he, at any point, possess the Ring? "John" is not an Elf. He does not possess THE Ring, though at one point he (depending if you hold the same belief as his people or not) possesses a Ring.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 8:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is John a dwarf? Is he one of the seven dwarfs to get the rings from Sauron?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 8:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And Ronald, Robert...close enough. =P My mistake.
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 8:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is John a dwarf? Is he one of the seven dwarfs to get the rings from Sauron?

He (if you believe, as his people do, the reason he is "deathless") eventually possesses one of the Seven Rings of the Dwarves. Yes, he is a Dwarf. I wish you hadn't said "Seven Dwarfs"...Tolkien said it was "Dwarves", and "Seven Dwarfs" sounds so...Snow White-ish. :-P
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 8:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So now all that's left is to get their names, correct?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 8:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So now all that's left is to get their names, correct? Indeed :-)
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 8:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

John: Thrain II? Thror?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 8:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

John: Thrain II? Thror? Nope..."The Deathless" is actually the epithet of this Dwarf...though you got it right that he was a King.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 8:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dunn?

(I was hoping it wouldn't be me =) )
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 9:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dunn? Indeed, Durin the Deathless! Durin III was the King at the time the Rings were made, and it was said by the folk of Durin that he would be reborn six times, each new Durin having the likeness of the first...so from Durin I through to Durin VII the Last, though not in order. Durin VII was a descendant of Thorin III Stonehelm, the King at the time of the War of the Ring.

(I was hoping it wouldn't be me =) ) No, but it was you who solved it! That bit, at least...one more...)
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 9:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Nick Flamel? (Given your username....)

And I can't believe I mistyped Durin's name...I accidentally typed "Dunn". Whoops?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 9:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Nick Flamel? (Given your username....) Nicholas Flamel, yes...maker of the Philosopher's Stone (Sorcerer's Stone to American readers of Harry Potter!) and immortalized in print by J.K. Rowling as an immortal (until he gives up said Stone) wizard.

And I can't believe I mistyped Durin's name...I accidentally typed "Dunn". Whoops? LOL! I didn't even notice.
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 9:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And that's the ***SPOILER***!!! Lol, sorry!
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 9:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Great puzzle! I had a hunch that Harry Potter would be relevant, early on, but I dismissed it....stupid of me.

Can't wait for your next one!
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 9:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hey, if I'm not stupid then neither are you. *hugs Balin* Thank you for staying with me on this.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 9:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

No problem - I had a lot of fun with this puzzle. And thanks for the hug =) *returns hug*
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Friday, October 01, 2010 - 2:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dang! I missed this one. Would've loved to solve it!

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