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Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Friday, October 01, 2010 - 1:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Anne, an atheist and an American citizen, is a staunch supporter of the separation of church and state which prevents government from promoting or supporting any sectarian views. Yet she sometimes wishes that the US had been officially established as a Christian country. Explain.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, October 01, 2010 - 1:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does she wish this because of a political issue? A religious issue? Other religions relevant? Is school relevant (that's where the issue of church/state seems to pop up the most)? Tea Party (the Republican branch, not the even in Boston in 1773) relevant? Constitution? Declaration of Independence? Language relevant? Literature? Science relevant? Evolution? Intelligent Design movement? Expansion of the country relevant? Wars? Territories? Is any current ideological conflict relevant?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Friday, October 01, 2010 - 1:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does she wish this because of a political issue? Partly these. A religious issue? Primarily these. Other religions relevant? No. Is school relevant (that's where the issue of church/state seems to pop up the most)? No. Tea Party (the Republican branch, not the even in Boston in 1773) relevant? Could be. Constitution? Yes. Declaration of Independence? No. Language relevant? No. Literature? No. Science relevant? Commonly. Evolution? Good choice. Intelligent Design movement? Another good choice. Expansion of the country relevant? No. Wars? Yes. Territories? No. Is any current ideological conflict relevant? No specific issue is relevant -- any or all will do, so long as religion is involved.
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Friday, October 01, 2010 - 10:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If the US had been established as a Christian country, would this have been beneficial to her? To some other person? To one group of persons? More than one? To the US as a whole? To the world? Christian - any specific denomination relevant?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Friday, October 01, 2010 - 1:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are church holidays relevant?


This reads like a Nimue puzzle don't you think
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, October 02, 2010 - 3:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It is rather Nimue-esque, isn't it?

If the US had been established as a Christian country, would this have been beneficial to her? To some other person? To one group of persons? More than one? This. To the US as a whole? To the world? Depending on your politics, both. Christian - any specific denomination relevant? No.

Are church holidays relevant? Again, possibly.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, October 02, 2010 - 12:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

More than one group of persons? Or more than one person?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, October 02, 2010 - 3:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

More than one group of persons? This. Or more than one person?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, October 02, 2010 - 11:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The groups of persons: do they have anything to do with religion? Gender? Race? Sexual orientation? Political party? Charity? Service relevant? Missionaries relevant?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Saturday, October 02, 2010 - 11:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The groups of persons: do they have anything to do with religion? Possibly. Gender? Yes. Race? Possibly. Sexual orientation? Yes. Political party? Possibly. Charity? Irr. Service relevant? Hm? Elaborate, please. Missionaries relevant? No.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2010 - 2:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Service: community service? Profession? The groups of persons: Males who are homosexual? Heterosexual? Females who are homosexual? Heterosexual?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2010 - 3:22 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Service: community service? Profession? A few of these come to mind. The groups of persons: Males who are homosexual? This. Heterosexual? Females who are homosexual? Heterosexual? Both.
Woodworm (Woodworm)
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Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2010 - 3:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are we talking about married people? Is Ann married? Engaged? Divorced?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2010 - 3:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are we talking about married people? Another relevant issue. Is Ann married? Irr. Engaged? Divorced?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2010 - 7:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Gay marriage controversy relevant? Prop 8? Relevant whether Anne is pro- or anti-gay-marriage?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2010 - 9:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does she have an ex-boyfriend who left her because he was gay and wanted to get a boyfriend? And if America had been established as Christian, perhaps he wouldn't be gay and wouldn't have broken her heart?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2010 - 11:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Gay marriage controversy relevant? Again, relevant. Prop 8? Likely relevant. Relevant whether Anne is pro- or anti-gay-marriage? Yes, she's pro.

Does she have an ex-boyfriend who left her because he was gay and wanted to get a boyfriend? No. And if America had been established as Christian, perhaps he wouldn't be gay and wouldn't have broken her heart? No. It's not nearly this specific.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, October 04, 2010 - 2:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Protests relevant? Does she wish America had been established as Christian simply because the controversy would not be raging?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, October 04, 2010 - 3:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Protests relevant? No. Does she wish America had been established as Christian simply because the controversy would not be raging? That's part of the reason.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, October 04, 2010 - 3:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does she hope that as a consequence of America being established Christian, the country would not be entirely (or close to it) pro-gay-marriage?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, October 04, 2010 - 3:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

EPIC BLOOPER: That should say "WOULD BE entirely," not "WOULD NOT BE entirely." Major blooper on my part - sorry.
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, October 04, 2010 - 3:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does she hope that as a consequence of America being established Christian, the country would be entirely (or close to it) pro-gay-marriage? Yes. Also pro-evolution, and pro-a-number-of-other-things.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, October 04, 2010 - 1:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wild stab: Does she hope Christianity would have been abolished? Or otherwise "removed from power," so to say? Shown to be false? That way, people would "come to their senses" and embrace evolution, homosexuality, etc.?

If so, I heartily disagree with her.
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, October 04, 2010 - 9:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wild stab: Does she hope Christianity would have been abolished? No. Or otherwise "removed from power," so to say? Yope, OTRT. Shown to be false? No. That way, people would "come to their senses" Not necessarily. and embrace evolution, homosexuality, etc.? OTRT. They wouldn't have to embrace it.

If so, I heartily disagree with her. That's your right.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, October 04, 2010 - 9:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does she simply wish more people would be accepting of homosexuality etc?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, October 04, 2010 - 10:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does she simply wish more people would be accepting of homosexuality etc? Among other things. How would the United States being established as a Xian country factor into that?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, October 04, 2010 - 10:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would Christianity naturally become more liberal as time went on?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, October 04, 2010 - 10:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would Christianity naturally become more liberal as time went on? Yope. OTRT.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, October 04, 2010 - 10:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does she wish America were still a Christian country?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, October 04, 2010 - 10:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does she wish America were still a Christian country? It never has been (at least not officially), so it can't be still. Rephrase?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, October 04, 2010 - 10:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Rephrasing: Does she wish, in this alternate America (which had been established Christian), that it were still Christian today?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, October 04, 2010 - 10:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Rephrasing: Does she wish, in this alternate America (which had been established Christian), that it were still Christian today? She doesn't wish it, but assumes it.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, October 04, 2010 - 11:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does she think that if America had been established Christian, people would be more accepting of other viewpoints than they are now?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2010 - 12:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does she think that if America had been established Christian, people would be more accepting of other viewpoints than they are now? Perhaps.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2010 - 12:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is any other religion relevant?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2010 - 12:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is any other religion relevant? No.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2010 - 12:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So she wishes the US had been established Christian...because people would be more accepting of her viewpoints? Of her beliefs?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2010 - 1:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So she wishes the US had been established Christian...because people would be more accepting of her viewpoints? Yes. Of her beliefs? Yes.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2010 - 12:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, acceptance is key...is there more to find out? If so (and I'm sure there is), what? In this alternate US, does she wish there would be more Christians than in actuality? Fewer? Irrel?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2010 - 9:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, acceptance is key...is there more to find out? If so (and I'm sure there is), what? Why does Anne think that a "more Christian" country would be more accepting of her views? In this alternate US, does she wish there would be more Christians than in actuality? Fewer? Irrel? This.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2010 - 9:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the Bible relevant? A specific verse? Teaching?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Is the Bible relevant? A specific verse? Teaching? None of these.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 06, 2010 - 1:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does she think that because of the Christians she knows? Are they very liberal?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Does she think that because of the Christians she knows? No. Are they very liberal?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 06, 2010 - 4:22 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is a specific branch of Christianity relevant?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 06, 2010 - 4:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is a specific branch of Christianity relevant? No.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 06, 2010 - 1:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does she have a scrund about Christianity? About Christians?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 06, 2010 - 2:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does she have a scrund about Christianity? No. About Christians? No.
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Posted on Wednesday, October 06, 2010 - 2:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does she think that if church and state were not separated, the state would've forced/influenced the church, and therefore many people, into being more "pro-a-number-of-things" so to speak?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 06, 2010 - 2:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does she think that if church and state were not separated, the state would've forced/influenced the church, and therefore many people, into being more "pro-a-number-of-things" so to speak? No.
Balin (Balin)
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Does she wish that the church would have more influence? Less? The state would have more? Less?
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Does she wish that the church would have more influence? Less? This. The state would have more? Less? Irr.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, October 07, 2010 - 3:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the thought that if America had been established Christian, there would be more of a "natural" separation between church and state? That the church would keep to itself?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, October 07, 2010 - 4:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the thought that if America had been established Christian, there would be more of a "natural" separation between church and state? That the church would keep to itself? You're on the right track, but it's not the church or the state you should be thinking about.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, October 07, 2010 - 4:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Should the focus be more on Christians? On the government? On the population? Would the thought be that Christians would keep more to themselves?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, October 07, 2010 - 4:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Should the focus be more on Christians? On the government? On the population? This. Would the thought be that Christians would keep more to themselves? No.
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Posted on Thursday, October 07, 2010 - 9:04 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are other religions relevant? foreign policy as a result of being a Christian state? Domestic policy? Religiousness of the population? Different Christian denominations relevant?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, October 07, 2010 - 12:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are other religions relevant? foreign policy as a result of being a Christian state? Domestic policy? Religiousness of the population? This, none of the others. Different Christian denominations relevant?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, October 07, 2010 - 3:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would the population be more religious than now? Less?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, October 07, 2010 - 10:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would the population be more religious than now? Less? This.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, October 07, 2010 - 11:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is she hoping that the churches would keep to themselves? Would not try to convert others?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Friday, October 08, 2010 - 12:48 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is she hoping that the churches would keep to themselves? Not this. Would not try to convert others? Or this.
Balin (Balin)
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Is her theory that the government would be less invasive of the rights of individuals?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Friday, October 08, 2010 - 4:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is her theory that the government would be less invasive of the rights of individuals? No. Judging from the last few questions, I think you have an FA.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, October 08, 2010 - 5:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the thought that the Christian populace would not try to force others to accept their beliefs? Would ignore those who disagreed with them?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Friday, October 08, 2010 - 5:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the thought that the Christian populace would not try to force others to accept their beliefs? Yes. Would ignore those who disagreed with them? Quite possibly.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, October 08, 2010 - 1:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does she think this is because they would be free to practice their beliefs without scorn? So they would be less..."condescending" isn't the word I'm looking for...toward others?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Friday, October 08, 2010 - 10:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does she think this is because they would be free to practice their beliefs without scorn? No. So they would be less..."condescending" isn't the word I'm looking for...toward others? OTRT.
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Friday, October 08, 2010 - 10:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does she think this is because they would be free to practice their beliefs without scorn? No. So they would be less..."condescending" isn't the word I'm looking for...toward others? OTRT.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, October 10, 2010 - 7:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That the Christian populace would be more open and accepting of outside beliefs?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Monday, October 11, 2010 - 1:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That the Christian populace would be more open and accepting of outside beliefs? Yes. Why?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, October 11, 2010 - 1:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

In a desire to improve themselves and/or their behavior?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2010 - 12:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

In a desire to improve themselves and/or their behavior? No. There's been a trace of false assumption in most of your questions thus far...
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2010 - 12:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would they be more accepting of other beliefs in hopes of attracting more converts?
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2010 - 12:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When the government mandates something, it tends to be less popular. Relevant?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2010 - 12:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would they be more accepting of other beliefs in hopes of attracting more converts? No. Definite false assumption.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2010 - 1:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You missed Noel's question....
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2010 - 2:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When the government mandates something, it tends to be less popular. Relevant? Yes!
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2010 - 3:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So her hope is that by having the country be established Christian, there would be fewer Christians because of that very government support? That it?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2010 - 6:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So her hope is that by having the country be established Christian, there would be fewer Christians Not necessarily. because of that very government support? That it? Hint: Look at other countries where this has happened.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2010 - 12:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would the hope be that the government would influence the church?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2010 - 10:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would the hope be that the government would influence the church? No.

This is very close to solution, as of Noel's post. Religion, strictly, is not less popular, but... Hint: The answer is counter-intuitive.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2010 - 10:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would the idea be that a government-mandated Christian church would attract fewer followers? Would be more open to outside beliefs so as to support the government?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2010 - 11:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would the idea be that a government-mandated Christian church would attract fewer followers? No. The physical church sitting on the street might attract fewer followers, but why would there be fewer people going to church? Hint: It's not because there are fewer Christians. Would be more open to outside beliefs so as to support the government? No. Remember, a government with an official religion is thus generally not opposed to the church.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2010 - 11:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Because fewer Christians would want to go to a government-run church?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 12:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Because fewer Christians would want to go to a government-run church? No. People's attitudes toward the government have nothing to do with the solution.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 1:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would the government be more accepting of other ideas so as to attract people to the church?
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 2:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Let's see...things that are mandated by the government are generally less popular. Because people don't like being forced to do things? Because they admire rebels? Because they respect individual freedoms?

It seems to me that in a country with a government religion, followers tend to assume that everyone actually believes in that religion. And so then they don't feel the need to try to convert them?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 2:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would the government be more accepting of other ideas so as to attract people to the church? No.

Let's see...things that are mandated by the government are generally less popular. Because people don't like being forced to do things? Because they admire rebels? Because they respect individual freedoms? None of these, and an FA on the first one.

It seems to me that in a country with a government religion, followers tend to assume that everyone actually believes in that religion. And so then they don't feel the need to try to convert them? Not this either.
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 2:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmm, if it is government mandated, people don't have to put as much thought into choosing their religion? So then maybe they wouldn't be so attached to it?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 2:50 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmm, if it is government mandated, people don't have to put as much thought into choosing their religion? So then maybe they wouldn't be so attached to it? Circling around relevance here...
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 10:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Relevant: Church attendance? Percentage of population that is Christian? Denominations? Conversion of non/other-believers? Fundamentalism? Other religions?
I know we have/had a state church here in Sweden, and we also have one of the lowest rates of Christianity in Europe. Relevant? Does she think if the US had been a Christian country, the same thing would've happened there?
(I don't know how or why it happened though)
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 3:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Relevant: Church attendance? As a symptom of something else. Percentage of population that is Christian? No. Denominations? No. Conversion of non/other-believers? No. Fundamentalism? Its lack. Other religions? No.
I know we have/had a state church here in Sweden, and we also have one of the lowest rates of Christianity in Europe. Relevant? Very much so. My quibbling in previous answers has been over the fact that pretty much everyone is still nominally Christian. Does she think if the US had been a Christian country, the same thing would've happened there? Yes.
(I don't know how or why it happened though) That's the puzzle; atheists have a pretty good idea why, though I don't know how much it's backed up by research.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 3:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would people only go to church to support the government? Because the government would require it? But they wouldn't actually be believers?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 4:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hm, I'm an atheist by birth, pretty much... My grandpa was a priest, and his kids got so fed up with religion that out of five, one switched churches and two became non-believers. Is this relevant? People being fed up by religion? Or seeing it as mundane, and therefore not putting much thought into it? Which leads to it not being a central part of people's lives, and therefore eventually not as widespread?
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 4:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are atheists under the impression that Christians, by associating their faith with the 'official' one, tend to be less religious, by transferring their resentiments towards the state also to the Church? That religion is no more than politics?
Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
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Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2010 - 1:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hm, I'm an atheist by birth, pretty much... My grandpa was a priest, and his kids got so fed up with religion that out of five, one switched churches and two became non-believers. Is this relevant? No, because... People being fed up by religion? ...this does not apply. Or seeing it as mundane, and therefore not putting much thought into it? Yes! Which leads to it not being a central part of people's lives, and therefore eventually not as widespread? Yes!

**************

Spoiler

**************

The experience of European countries with official faiths has turned out to be that they gradually lose faith, quite possibly because it is so pervasive that citizens simply don't take it seriously anymore. Whereas the United States, which even has a clause in its Constitution stating that no religious test may be set for members of government, is the most actively religious country in the Western world. Whenever people claim that Christianity is under threat in the USA, I just laugh.

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