| Author | Message | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 1 Registered: 10-2010 |
Too french for being dutch. Too dead for being american. | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 541 Registered: 9-2009 |
Hi and welcome! Was someone too french for being dutch? Was someone too dead for being american? If so, is he1=he2? Are they HAM? | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 2 Registered: 10-2010 |
Was something too french for being dutch? YES (if question is rephrased as above) Was someone too dead for being american? YES If so, is he1=he2? NO Are they HAM? Explain HAM (sorry I am new to this) | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 542 Registered: 9-2009 |
HAM = Human? Adult? Male? | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 543 Registered: 9-2009 |
So, it was something (as opposed to someone) too french for being dutch? And someone too dead for being American? Time relevant? Location? Is this a real story? FYOI? FSEI? | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 3 Registered: 10-2010 |
HAM = Human? Adult? Male? YES regarding "he2" | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 544 Registered: 9-2009 |
Title relevant? The profession of he2? (let's name him Bob, ok?)His age? Did someone die? Did Bob die? Sport relevant? | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 4 Registered: 10-2010 |
So, it was something (as opposed to someone) too french for being dutch? YES And someone too dead for being American? YES Time relevant? YES Location? YES Is this a real story? NO (assuming you mean "non-fictional") he2 YES in reference to it FYOI? NO FSEI? YES (assuming FSEI means "from someone else imaginition") | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 5 Registered: 10-2010 |
Title relevant? YES The profession of he2? (let's name him Bob, ok?) NO (Bob OK) His age? NO Did someone die? YES Did Bob die? YOPE Sport relevant? NO | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 546 Registered: 9-2009 |
Time relevant: specific era? specific year? month? day? season? time of the day? Did this happen in [LTPF list of centuries]? Location: country relevant? did this happen in Europe? North America? South America? Asia? Africa? Australia and Oceania? Is the type of location relevant? (in the mountains as opposed to the sea shore, for example) | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 547 Registered: 9-2009 |
Clarifying the YOPE to Bob's death: Did he actually die in the sense that he lost his life? Is this relevant? Was he through some sort of near-death experiences? Is Bob a living person? Or was he, at some point in time? A character in a movie? A character in a computer game? | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 6 Registered: 10-2010 |
Time relevant: specific era? specific year? month? day? season? time of the day? Did this happen in [LTPF list of centuries]? NO (Hint: above aspects of time not relevant - time somewhat relevant in another sense) Location: country relevant? YES did this happen in Europe? YES North America? YES South America? Asia? Africa? Australia and Oceania? NO Is the type of location relevant? (in the mountains as opposed to the sea shore, for example) NO | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 7 Registered: 10-2010 |
Clarifying the YOPE to Bob's death: Did he actually die in the sense that he lost his life? YES Is this relevant? YES Was he through some sort of near-death experiences? NO (but eg. since he died he was also near dying) Is Bob a living person? YOPE (in the fictional space established by answer below) Or was he, at some point in time? YES A character in a movie? YES A character in a computer game? NO | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 548 Registered: 9-2009 |
Attempting an early recap here: Something was too French for being Dutch. Someone (Bob, HAM and a character in a movie) is too dead for being American. Bob died. Time is relevant in a certain sense. Country is relevant. This happened in North America and Europe. Correct so far? Was Bob killed? Did he commit suicide? Are there other persons relevant? Are wars relevant? The 'it' that is too french to be dutch: is it something tangible? If so: larger than a golf ball? larger than a microwave? a room? a building? Is the name of 'it' relevant? Its colour? The part that happened in North America was in: Canada? the US? Mexico? The part that happened in Europe -- please insert here the [LTPF list of European countries]? | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 8 Registered: 10-2010 |
Attempting an early recap here: Something was too French for being Dutch. Someone (Bob, HAM and a character in a movie) is too dead for being American. Bob died. Time is relevant in a certain sense. Country is relevant. This happened in North America and Europe. Correct so far? YES Was Bob killed? YES Did he commit suicide? YOPE Are there other persons relevant? YESISH Are wars relevant? NO The 'it' that is too french to be dutch: is it something tangible? NO If so: larger than a golf ball? larger than a microwave? a room? a building? NR Is the name of 'it' relevant? YES Its colour? NR The part that happened in North America was in: the US? YES Mexico? The part that happened in Europe -- please insert here the [LTPF list of European countries]? France | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 9 Registered: 10-2010 |
Attempting an early recap here: Something was too French for being Dutch. Someone (Bob, HAM and a character in a movie) is too dead for being American. Bob died. Time is relevant in a certain sense. Country is relevant. This happened in North America and Europe. Correct so far? YES (but important hint and clarification - BOB did both die and not die) | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 549 Registered: 9-2009 |
Religion relevant? Time travel? Is the actor playing Bob in the movie relevant? Maybe because the character dies in the movie while obviously the actor is still alive? | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 10 Registered: 10-2010 |
Religion relevant? NO Time travel? NO Is the actor playing Bob in the movie relevant? YOPE Maybe because the character dies in the movie while obviously the actor is still alive? NO (not at all relevant) | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 5779 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did Bob die in a dream? Did he die but was then revived? Did Bob die in France? In the US? Alternate universes relevant? Dream sequences relevant? | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 11 Registered: 10-2010 |
Did Bob die in a dream? NO Did he die but was then revived? NO Did Bob die in France? YES In the US? NO Alternate universes relevant? NO Dream sequences relevant? NO | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 12 Registered: 10-2010 |
Alternate universes relevant? NO (putting in a vague hint here: Alternate Corporate Cultures are relevant though - maybe that could vaguely be regarded as an "Alternate Universe") | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 5789 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did Bob die and stay dead? Is this a movie-inside-a-movie? | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 13 Registered: 10-2010 |
Did Bob die and stay dead? YOPE Is this a movie-inside-a-movie? NO | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 5809 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is the afterlife relevant? Reincarnation? Heaven? Hell? Ghosts? Zombies? | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 14 Registered: 10-2010 |
Is the afterlife relevant? Reincarnation? Heaven? Hell? Ghosts? Zombies? NO to all | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 5876 Registered: 4-2010 |
The thing that was "too French for being Dutch" - was that a person? Do the two halves of the puzzle statement refer to the same thing? The same person? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 5877 Registered: 4-2010 |
The thing that was "too French for being Dutch" - was that a person? Do the two halves of the puzzle statement refer to the same thing? The same person? | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 15 Registered: 10-2010 |
The thing that was "too French for being Dutch" - was that a person? NO Do the two halves of the puzzle statement refer to the same thing? YES The same person? NO (eg. This "same thing" is not a person) | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 5901 Registered: 4-2010 |
Are any animals relevant? Is there more than one person involved? If so, 2? 3? [LTPF list of integers]? H? A? M? | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 16 Registered: 10-2010 |
Are any animals relevant? NO Is there more than one person involved? YES (the specificness of this is more releveant in BOBs part of the puzzle than in the french/dutch part - but still - both parts refer to the same main thing of the puzzle) If so, 2? 3? [LTPF list of integers]? four main persons four secondary persons and more people where their numbers are not that relevant H? A? M? Four adult males main characters, four adult females secondary characters | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 17 Registered: 10-2010 |
RECAP SO FAR: Something was too French for being Dutch and "Bob" was too dead for being American (US) "As Leeman" is relevant to main puzzle "Time" and "Location" are relevant "Too French for being Dutch" is a true story "Bob" is a fictional character occuring in (existing) cinema The cinema part involves 4 male main characters and four female secondary characters. It happened in France and the US "Bob" both died (France) and did not die (US). When "Bob" did die he was killed but also comitted suicide | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 5923 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did Bob die from assisted suicide? Euthanasia? Was the cause of death blunt force? Sharp force? Strangulation? Poisoning? Electrocution? Cardiac arrest? Burning to death? | ||
| Woodworm (Woodworm)
New member Username: Woodworm Post Number: 2103 Registered: 3-2006 |
Are we looking for a single French film? Perhaps one in which a character dies in the French version but not in the US version? And perhaps also one in which some detail is de-Gallicized for the Dutch market? Something along these lines? Is it anything to do with the translation of the title? La Grande Bouffe? | ||
| Woodworm (Woodworm)
New member Username: Woodworm Post Number: 2104 Registered: 3-2006 |
Is 'As Leeman' an anagram? Of a French phrase? | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 18 Registered: 10-2010 |
Did Bob die from assisted suicide? Yesish (a matter of interpretation by the audience to the film) Euthanasia? NO Was the cause of death blunt force? Sharp force? Strangulation? Poisoning? Electrocution? Cardiac arrest? Burning to death? NO to all | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 19 Registered: 10-2010 |
Are we looking for a single French film? Noish Perhaps one in which a character dies in the French version but not in the US version? Yes! (but not really a French version) And perhaps also one in which some detail is de-Gallicized for the Dutch market? No Something along these lines? Yesish Is it anything to do with the translation of the title? No La Grande Bouffe? No | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 20 Registered: 10-2010 |
Is 'As Leeman' an anagram? Of a French phrase? No to both | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 5937 Registered: 4-2010 |
Was Bob shot? Did he drown? | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 21 Registered: 10-2010 |
Was Bob shot? Did he drown? No to both | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 5968 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did he die from a long-term illness? Was he executed? | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 22 Registered: 10-2010 |
Did he die from a long-term illness? Was he executed? No to both | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 6037 Registered: 4-2010 |
Was he suffocated? Did he die of smoke inhalation? | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 23 Registered: 10-2010 |
Was he suffocated? YES! Did he die of smoke inhalation? NO | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 6045 Registered: 4-2010 |
Was he suffocated with a pillow? A plastic bag? | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 24 Registered: 10-2010 |
Was he suffocated with a pillow? A plastic bag? NO to both | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 593 Registered: 9-2009 |
The French/Dutch "it": is it an idea? an emotion? a sentiment? a color? a state of mind? a concept? a god? a name? Is it really Dutch, but sounds more like French? Or is it French, but someone thinks or want someone else to think that it is Dutch? | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 25 Registered: 10-2010 |
new recap/clarifications on where we are at the moment in the puzzle - the skeletal form of the second phrase in the puzzle is solved "Too dead for being American" - An American remake of a film is changed in content so that the main character does not die. To solve the rest of the puzzle (which is a real story - as the film(s) are existing (eg FSOEI)) the general storyline of the film(s) and the details of "BOB"s death might be one way to go. "Bob" was killed and died of suffocation and it might be seen as a suicide. There were more characters of importance in the film(s) - another male adult (in both films) and two other adult women (in both films). The title "As Leeman" and how that relates to the puzzle is also unresolved so far | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 26 Registered: 10-2010 |
Made a clumsy and misleading writing in previous post "was killed and died of suffucation" should instead read "was killed by suffocation" | ||
| Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
New member Username: Kayleetonkslupin Post Number: 490 Registered: 9-2010 |
Carbon monoxide poisoning relevant? Sitting in a car with the gas filling up an enclosed garage? | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 595 Registered: 9-2009 |
You missed my questions | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 27 Registered: 10-2010 |
The French/Dutch "it": is it an idea? an emotion? a sentiment? a color? a state of mind? a concept? a god? a name? No to all Is it really Dutch, but sounds more like French? YES! Or is it French, but someone thinks or want someone else to think that it is Dutch? NOISH | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 6100 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is the pronunciation or spelling of a certain word relevant? | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 28 Registered: 10-2010 |
Carbon monoxide poisoning relevant? NO Sitting in a car with the gas filling up an enclosed garage? NO | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 29 Registered: 10-2010 |
Is the pronunciation or spelling of a certain word relevant? YES (but question should actually be rephrased not to make WA - at least remove "of a certain word" and go broader in the assumption) | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 6120 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is pronunciation relevant? Spelling? Of the title? | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 30 Registered: 10-2010 |
Is pronunciation relevant? YESISH (hope it is not my fault that you seem to miss the obvious line of thought that would make the YESHISH into YES ) Spelling? YESHIS Of the title? NO | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 6124 Registered: 4-2010 |
It's not...I tend to miss obvious stuff a lot =P Pronunciation/spelling of something in French? Dutch? English? Of Bob's name? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 6125 Registered: 4-2010 |
Of the word "suffocation"? | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 31 Registered: 10-2010 |
Pronunciation/spelling of something in French? YES! Dutch? YES! English? NO Of Bob's name? NO | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 32 Registered: 10-2010 |
Of the word "suffocation"? NOISH (too particular - somewhat WA) | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 33 Registered: 10-2010 |
A vague but also such an interesting hint that I cannot withold it: It is much easier for a Scandinavian, Dutch, British or Portugese citizen to solve this part of the problem than it is for an American, German, French, Italian or Spanish citizen (other nations I´m not that sure about how easy/hard it might be but it differs between countries) | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 34 Registered: 10-2010 |
Also Romanians, Serb, Croat, Macedonian, Greek and Turkish citizen should have less problem than other europeans solving it (also harder for Swiss, Austrian, Czech, Hungarian, Belgian and Slovak citizens) | ||
| Woodworm (Woodworm)
New member Username: Woodworm Post Number: 2114 Registered: 3-2006 |
Was the film censored/Bowdlerised in some countries but not in others? Does it have something to do with the American penchant for happy endings? I'm assuming that the difficulty has nothing to do with language, then? As a Brit, I only have a little French and a smattering of American ... Is it a Dutch film? A Scandinavian film? A British film? | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 35 Registered: 10-2010 |
Was the film censored/Bowdlerised in some countries but not in others? Don´t really know but NR Does it have something to do with the American penchant for happy endings? YES I'm assuming that the difficulty has nothing to do with language, then? NO (it has everything to do with language) As a Brit, I only have a little French and a smattering of American ... Is it a Dutch film? YES! A Scandinavian film? NO A British film? NO | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 36 Registered: 10-2010 |
Too not be confusing or misleading: Does it have something to do with the American penchant for happy endings? YES (the "Too dead for being American" part) I'm assuming that the difficulty has nothing to do with language, then? NO (it has everything to do with language (the "Too French for being Dutch" part)) | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 596 Registered: 9-2009 |
Is it some phonetic rule relevant? That is harder for some to grasp, while it is easier for others? In your hint above, is it language that matters? Hmmm... long shot... does it have anything to do with subtitling movies, as opposed to doubling them? | ||
| Woodworm (Woodworm)
New member Username: Woodworm Post Number: 2116 Registered: 3-2006 |
@ Rbruma ... well, we have a Brit and a Romanian on the case. Perhaps we should drag that Czech guy out of his bear? Lijmen? Translated as 'Leeman'? Oh heck, this is hard! Would it help to do a bit of brute-force guessing of Dutch films? Or is there a more subtle way of approaching it? | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 37 Registered: 10-2010 |
Is it some phonetic rule relevant? NOISH That is harder for some to grasp, while it is easier for others? NO if you are referring to the original puzzle YES if you refer to the hint In your hint above, is it language that matters? YES Hmmm... long shot... does it have anything to do with subtitling movies, as opposed to doubling them? YES! Brilliant assumption - but remember this was a hint that almost became a puzzle within the puzzle and the hint is still not used on the main puzzle - I will rephrase the hint more bluntly since you solved it: Why would dubbing vs. subtitling make a difference in how easy it is to grasp the "Too French for Being Dutch"? | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 38 Registered: 10-2010 |
Lijmen? Translated as 'Leeman'? NR Oh heck, this is hard! Clarification: "As Leeman"(not solved) refers to "too dead for being American" (statement solved) - but no title yet that could help with the first statement "Too French for being Dutch" Would it help to do a bit of brute-force guessing of Dutch films? Maybe - It would most likely lead to the puzzle being solved if the correct title was found but not as fun if "brute force googling/listing was used" Or is there a more subtle way of approaching it? Yes - and they are not that subtle - definately - It would also be more fun if the three parts was solved and then a moviebuff would have a good chance to provide the title - or I would give you the reasoning and facts | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 598 Registered: 9-2009 |
As a Romanian, always accustomed to subtitling and totally unaccustomed to dubbing... Is it a Dutch film being dubbed in French? Is it by any chance a film in Dutch, but from Belgium as opposed to the Netherlands? (Not so brilliant assumption anymore, but it's my best at 01:30 AM :=) On the same idea, are different names of places relevant (Charleroi vs. Tchalerwe, e.g)? Is the pronounciation of some name that it is relevant? Is it an accent relevant, that may confuse regions? | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 39 Registered: 10-2010 |
Oh heck, this is hard! Since "Too dead for being American" is structurally solved "As Leeman" is not neceesary to solve "Too French for being Dutch" - but it would be nice if someone gave "Leeman" a solution also | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 599 Registered: 9-2009 |
@Woodworm -- by all means -- and then we split it Is something about death spelled / pronounced differently in the languages used? So that, for example, one can understand that Bob was killed, while another that he committed suicide? My Dutch is a bit rusty... | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 600 Registered: 9-2009 |
Leeman: layman? Lake Geneva? Is it a name? | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 40 Registered: 10-2010 |
Is it a Dutch film being dubbed in French? NO or NR (but this film is dubbed in France like any other film is dubbed when screened in France) Is it by any chance a film in Dutch, YESISH but from Belgium as opposed to the Netherlands? NO (Not so brilliant assumption anymore, but it's my best at 01:30 AM :=) The direction is actually good On the same idea, are different names of places relevant (Charleroi vs. Tchalerwe, e.g)? NO Is the pronounciation of some name that it is relevant? Is it an accent relevant, that may confuse regions? NO but I have to say that you are so close but being too particular | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 41 Registered: 10-2010 |
Is something about death spelled / pronounced differently in the languages used? YES but you are too particular So that, for example, one can understand that Bob was killed, while another that he committed suicide? NO and also NR My Dutch is a bit rusty... | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 6132 Registered: 4-2010 |
A Brit and a Romanian...don't forget the American. Are there particular accents in French words relevant? In Dutch words? Do Dutch words sound the similar to French words, but are spelled completely different? The other way around? | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 42 Registered: 10-2010 |
Leeman: layman? NO Lake Geneva? NO Is it a name? YES! | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 6134 Registered: 4-2010 |
Leeman: Lehman? Les mains? (From my rusty high school french)? | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 43 Registered: 10-2010 |
Are there particular accents in French words relevant? NR In Dutch words? NR Do Dutch words sound the similar to French words, but are spelled completely different? NR The other way around? NR Hint to all involved: simplify the questions about language | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 44 Registered: 10-2010 |
Leeman: Lehman? Les mains? (From my rusty high school french)? Leeman is established as being A NAME | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 6139 Registered: 4-2010 |
A name...is the name Lee? Is it a man's name? | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 45 Registered: 10-2010 |
Hint to all involved: simplify the questions about language I feel one of the most obvious questions have not been asked yet | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 6140 Registered: 4-2010 |
Relevant how widespread the language is? Is it simply easier to understand the French when read, rather than spoken? The other way round? | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 46 Registered: 10-2010 |
A name...is the name Lee? NO (the name is Leeman). Is it a man's name? YES. | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 602 Registered: 9-2009 |
We'll split the Czech in three, Matt. One last question for tonight, at 2:00 AM: Any reference to Abraham Leeman? | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 47 Registered: 10-2010 |
Relevant how widespread the language is? NR Is it simply easier to understand the French when read, rather than spoken? NR The other way round? NR | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 6142 Registered: 4-2010 |
So you'll Czech back in later, then? Is the man related to the film? Director? Producer? Actor? | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 48 Registered: 10-2010 |
Any reference to Abraham Leeman? NO | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 49 Registered: 10-2010 |
Is the man related to the film? NO Director? Producer? NO Actor? NO Tip: Ponder the EXACT phrasing: "Too dead for being American" relates to "As Leeman" | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 6145 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is Leeman dead? Is he the one we've been calling "Bob"? | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 50 Registered: 10-2010 |
RECAP SO FAR: A man named Leeman is "as" a character that dies (by suffocation that could be seen as suicide) in a Dutch movie that was later remade In the US where the same character did not die because Americans would want a "happier ending" - In both versions there is additional main characters (two women and and a man in each version). The Movie is "Too french for being dutch" this has something to do with language and this aspect is easier to grasp if you live in a country that don´t dub films (but uses subtitles instead). We are a bit stuck at what is the language problem and why it is "too"... and also "who is Leeman?" | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 51 Registered: 10-2010 |
Is Leeman dead? YES and YES Is he the one we've been calling "Bob"? NO (but he is "as BOB") | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 52 Registered: 10-2010 |
Is Leeman dead? Sorry made a mistake - in the logic I have used earlier the answer should of course be YES and YES and NO | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 53 Registered: 10-2010 |
IMPROVED RECAP (forgot a few things) SO FAR: A man named Leeman who has died, died and not died is "as" a character that dies (by being killed by suffocation that could be seen as suicide - the exact fashion this happens is not concluded but would make the film more identifiable) in a Dutch movie that was later remade In the US where the same character did not die because Americans would want a "happier ending" - In both versions there is additional main characters (two women and and a man in each version). The Movie is "Too french for being dutch" this has something to do with language and this aspect is easier to grasp if you live in a country that don´t dub films (but uses subtitles instead). We are a bit stuck at what is the language problem and why it is "too"... and also "who is Leeman?" | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 6150 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is the language problem auditory? Visual? | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 54 Registered: 10-2010 |
Is the language problem auditory? YES Visual? NO Hint: We seem to be stuck on an assumption that the language problem is a problem for the audience perception or internally in the film structure. The case though is that the problem concerning language is actually outside of the film (even if it originates within the film - but is not a problem there) and also really outside of the audience but it still affects the fate of the film | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 6155 Registered: 4-2010 |
Does a certain Dutch word sound like a certain French word? And that could cause misunderstanding? | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 55 Registered: 10-2010 |
Does a certain Dutch word sound like a certain French word? And that could cause misunderstanding? NO Perhaps TOO MUCH LATERAL THINKING GOING ON Hint: "Too MUCH French for beeing Dutch" in relation to the movie as such | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 6189 Registered: 4-2010 |
It was a Dutch film, correct? Was the film spoken in Dutch? In French? | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 56 Registered: 10-2010 |
It was a Dutch film, correct? YES Was the film spoken in Dutch? YES In French? YES | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 611 Registered: 9-2009 |
Was the film spoken in Dutch and dubbed in French?. Was a character in the movie pronounced in a way in the original and another way in the French dubbing? Was the name of the character Leeman? And sounded like Le Mans in French? Is any character in the original movie / American version named Leeman? Is it correct to assume that there are two things left to determine: 1. Relation between 'Too dead to be american' to 'As Leeman'? 2. The significance of 'Too much French for being Dutch' in relation to the movie? | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 57 Registered: 10-2010 |
Was the film spoken in Dutch and dubbed in French? NO (unless you saw it in France where all films are dubbed to French). Was a character in the movie pronounced in a way in the original and another way in the French dubbing? NO or more correctly NR (since in France I assume this could have been the fact - anyway not relevant) Was the name of the character Leeman? YESISH (YES if phrased "was a name of a character Leeman") And sounded like Le Mans in French? Is any character in the original movie / American version named Leeman? NO to both Is it correct to assume that there are two things left to determine: 1. Relation between 'Too dead to be american' to 'As Leeman'? YES! 2. The significance of 'Too much French for being Dutch' in relation to the movie? YES!! | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 6245 Registered: 4-2010 |
Was the movie spoken partially in Dutch and partially in French? Is the language of the character Leeman relevant? | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 58 Registered: 10-2010 |
Was the movie spoken partially in Dutch and partially in French? YES!! Is the language of the character Leeman relevant? NO (Leeman issue only realates to "Too dead for being American") | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 6257 Registered: 4-2010 |
Does Leeman die in the film? Is Leeman Dutch? French? American? Relevant? | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 59 Registered: 10-2010 |
Does Leeman die in the film? YOPE Is Leeman Dutch? NO French? NO American? YOPE Relevant? YES | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 6293 Registered: 4-2010 |
In the version where Bob lives, does Leeman die? In the version where Bob dies, does Leeman live? | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 60 Registered: 10-2010 |
In the version where Bob lives, does Leeman die? In the version where Bob dies, does Leeman live? In the French version "BOB" dies as Leeman does in a UK version In the US version "BOB" does not die as "Leeman" also do not die in his US version Consider "As Leeman" solved - I will present "BOB" and Leeman in a later spoiler - just "Too French for being Dutch" to solve. The movie with "BOB" had that - in what way was that significant? - Unless anyone wants to keep on trying I´ll give the full spoiler tomorrow | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 6328 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did the movie have a narrator? Was the dialogue in French? Dutch? If there was a narrator, was the narration in French? Dutch? | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 61 Registered: 10-2010 |
Did the movie have a narrator? NO Was the dialogue in French? YES Dutch? YES | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 6349 Registered: 4-2010 |
Was Bob's dialogue all in French? Dutch? A mix? Was Leeman's dialogue all in French? Dutch? A mix? | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 62 Registered: 10-2010 |
Was Bob's dialogue all in French? Dutch? A mix? YES it was a mix Was Leeman's dialogue all in French? Dutch? A mix? NR Leeman relates to "Too dead for being american" Leeman DO NOT relate to "Too French for Being Dutch" | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 6382 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did Leeman also die in the original but not when the movie was brought to the US? | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 63 Registered: 10-2010 |
Did Leeman also die in the original but not when the movie was brought to the US? YES (movie is not correct format in Leeman´s case though) | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 6386 Registered: 4-2010 |
Was the movie based off a TV show? Video game? Book? Relevant? Did Leeman die in the original TV show/book/etc, but not in the movie? | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 64 Registered: 10-2010 |
Was the movie based off a TV show? Video game? Book? Relevant? Did Leeman die in the original TV show/book/etc, but not in the movie? YES (Leeman (named in the show in honor of a real Leeman) died in the UK TV-show - the character based on Leeman in the US TV-show did not die (This is the solution to the "As Leeman" part of the puzzle) | ||
| Woodworm (Woodworm)
New member Username: Woodworm Post Number: 2136 Registered: 3-2006 |
Leeman was the name of the man who dies in 'The Kipper and the Corpse', a famous episode of Fawlty Towers. I didn't guess this earlier, as I thought I was looking for a Dutch film, and I'm pretty sure that this doesn't exist in a death-free US version. So this is the Leeman in question? Or anything to do with the real Andrew Leeman, John Cleese's friend who was the inspiration for the episode? | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 65 Registered: 10-2010 |
Leeman was the name of the man who dies in 'The Kipper and the Corpse', a famous episode of Fawlty Towers. I didn't guess this earlier, as I thought I was looking for a Dutch film, and I'm pretty sure that this doesn't exist in a death-free US version. So this is the Leeman in question? Or anything to do with the real Andrew Leeman, John Cleese's friend who was the inspiration for the episode? YES this is the reference to Leeman. "The Kipper and the Corpse" storyline was used in one of several US attempts to do a hotel comedy on the "Fawlty Towers" concept - I saw the US version many years ago and was amazed when the "dead guest" came alive at the end of the show - I haven´t been able to track down which one of the various US shows it was though. So the only thing left is the title of the other (movie) which was also "Too French for being Dutch" and the significance of that statement | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 6424 Registered: 4-2010 |
Was the movie from the 2000s? 1990s? 1980s? 1970s? 1960s? Earlier? | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 66 Registered: 10-2010 |
Was the movie from the 2000s? 1990s? 1980s? 1970s? 1960s? Earlier? 1980s and 1990s | ||
| Mosson (Mosson)
New member Username: Mosson Post Number: 67 Registered: 10-2010 |
***** SPOILER ****** [I will not have much time to support this thread in the nearest future and the soultion is so close that I might as well present the solution: The puzzle is about an american remake of a european film. This is not an uncommon thing but in this case unusual for mainly two reasons to me: 1. The original 1988 Dutch version (Spoorlos/L´homme qui voulait savoir/The Vanishing) is one of my favourite films and by many seen as one of the most chilling and overall best thrillers made in Europe ever 2. The 1993 American Version (The Vanishing) is actually directed by the same (!) person as the original (George Sluizer) and is a rather dismal affair. In the original version the main character ("BOB1"=Rex Hofman played by unknown actor Gene Bervoets) pursues an obsession to find out what happened to his several years earlier vanished girlfriend (Saskia Wagter played by somewhat less unknown Johanna ter Steege) so that he in the end accepts to follow the same fate that a psychopath gave Saskia - being buried alive by the psycho and dying underground. A new girlfriend tries to save him from his obsession during the preceeding time in the film but fails. In the American version the main character ("BOB2"=Jeff Harriman played by Kiefer Sutherland) pursues an obsession to find out what happened to his several years earlier vanished girlfriend (Diane Shaver played by somewhat less unknown Sandra Bullock) so that he in the end accepts to follow the same fate that a psychopath (played by Jeff Bridges) gave Diane - being buried alive by the psycho but at the last moment being dug up by a new girlfriend Rita Parker (played by Nancy Travis) she has tried to save him from his obsession during the preceeding time and after she has dug him up they become a very happy couple. There is a lot more major and minor differences between the films. The original film was officially Dutch but a lot of the story took place in France. The film was very well recieved and was supposed to be the Dutch candidate for the Academy Rewards category of "Best Foreign Film". It was not allowed to enter though as there was too big a proportion of French dialogue in relation to Dutch language and that broke some rule with the "Academy Awards" (The "duality" of dual language dialogue is lost in countries that dubs films). This might seem like a trivia sidenote but my belief is that if it had been allowed to enter the "Academy Awards" process the position of George Sluizer would have strengthed and we would perhaps not have had him being pressured to do the American so flawed that it still taints the reputation of the original classic (if you fx. look at the comment fields at Amazon.co.uk or .com you can see that there is confusion on which one is which). from imdb: "The film was submitted to the Academy Awards in 1988 as the official Dutch entry for Best Foreign Language Film. However, the AMPAS disqualified it because they determined that there was too much French dialog in the film to warrant it being a Dutch candidate." Leeman is actually three positions 1. The "real" Andrew Leeman who died 2007 was a famous UK Hotellier that knew John Cleese. John Cleese was researching a comedy concept that would later become the also classic show "Fawlty Towers" and when questioning Leeman on Hotel stories Leeman told him about the problems of "stiffs" (dead people found in hotel rooms) that had to be dealt with without other hotelguests noticing anything. 2. The Leeman character was named in honor of the real Leeman and is the hotel guest that dies at "Fawlty Towers" in the episode "The Kipper and the Corpse" 3. The third Leeman is probably called something else but I saw him in one of the several ill-fated attempts of an American version of "Fawlty Towers" (which one has eluded me and I have not been able to research it). As you now must have guessed this supposedely dead "Leeman" turns out to be all well and healthy at the end of the show (he had fallen into some weird "sleep"). I deliberately wanted - as my first ever puzzle - to create something that was about a movie since that is my greatest interest - but since I did not want it to be a matter of memory of films quiz and to straightforward to solve - I made it the story of a film rather than the story in a film. Seems that this approached did lead to some extra confusion. As an extra touch I find it interesting that the original novel that is credited in both films ("The Golden Egg" by Tim Krabbé) is actually built on a classic urban legend and that area seems to also be the most classical source for the most classical lateral puzzles on this site.] | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 6504 Registered: 4-2010 |
Great puzzle! Can't wait for your next one! |
