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Lateral Puzzles » Solved Lateral Thinking Puzzles » Solved Puzzles - October 2010 » {KayleeTonksLupin} No such thing as a free gift, or is there? « Previous Next »

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Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Post Number: 857
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Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 3:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

He gave us all a gift, but it came with a high price
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 3513
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Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 4:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

he: H? A? M? Gift: something tangible? Us: H? A? F? Mixed gender? Price: monetary? Material? Social? Could "high price" be reformulated to: great price? great cost? large cost? big detriment?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Post Number: 858
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Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 4:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

he: H? A? M?Not human. The others are questionable...most would say male.
Gift: something tangible?No
Us: H? A? F? Mixed gender? This
Price: monetary? Material? Social? All of these on some level, though I don't think any of them is exactly right Could "high price" be reformulated to: great price? great cost?This works large cost? big detriment?And this
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 7074
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Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 4:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

He - animal? A pet? God? A computer? Is this a true story? FYOI? FSEI?

Is this the story you emailed me? If so, I will stay out.
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Username: Kayleetonkslupin

Post Number: 859
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Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 4:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

He - animal? A pet? God?Yes A computer? Is this a true story?The essence is something I believe to be true. FYOI? FSEIYesish?

Is this the story you emailed me? If so, I will stay out.Yes. Awww, poor Balin, I'll miss you on it. *hugs*
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 3516
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Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 6:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Free will? Choice? The Christian God?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 6:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Free will?This, and
Choice?This are involved, but we need to have something *slightly* more specific.
The Christian God?Yes, although this was mentioned in what was essentially a Silmarillion-based ficlet. One could, I suppose, call it a Silm/Bible crossover. And the good Professor *was* Catholic...
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 3521
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Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 6:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Us all: humanity? Damnation relevant? Or salvation? An instinct? Intelligence?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 6:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Us all: humanity? Indeed
Damnation relevant?
Or salvation? Both
An instinct? Mmm...I don't think so, not really
Intelligence? Yes, in the sense that one would have to be capable of thinking for this to work
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 3526
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Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 7:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Seven deadly sins relevant? If so, one specific sin? If so, is it [LTPF list of seven deadly sins]? Are there humans who don't have this gift? Are there humans who are not paying any significant price for it?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Post Number: 879
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Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 7:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Seven deadly sins relevant? Not specifically
If so, one specific sin? If so, is it [LTPF list of seven deadly sins]?
Are there humans who don't have this gift? No.
Are there humans who are not paying any significant price for it? That's difficult to answer without giving away the $poiler.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 3527
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Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 8:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Emotions relevant? Logic? Illogic? Superstition? Interactions between humans?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 10:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Emotions relevant? Yes, some
Logic?
Illogic? Neither logic or illogic matter
Superstition? No
Interactions between humans? The only "interaction" relevant is between humans and God
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Post Number: 735
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Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 10:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The price that we have to pay -- is this taking responsibility for our actions? Are we supposed to be paying it here or in the afterlife?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 10:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The price that we have to pay -- is this taking responsibility for our actions? Yes, and...
Are we supposed to be paying it here or in the afterlife? Both, but neither one has much to do with the answer; you're trying to figure out what the gift is. The price is a result of it, but not the answer.
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Post Number: 3532
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Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 10:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Good relevant? Evil? Judgment after death? Limbo? Rapture? Some other thing happening after death? Emotions: good? Bad? Neutral?
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Post Number: 736
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Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 10:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Something along the lines of: you are free to choose... but make the wrong choice and you'll pay? Is the gift a specific instance of exercising free will? Anything to do with bearing children?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Post Number: 884
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Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 10:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Good relevant? Evil? Both are the most relevant. What happens after death is really irrelevant.
Judgment after death? Limbo? Rapture? Some other thing happening after death? Emotions: good? Bad? Both.Neutral?

RECAP: God gave all of humanity a gift, but it came with a great cost.

The gift has something to do with free will, good and evil, and everything to do with an interaction between us and our Creator.
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 10:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the gift God himself?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 10:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the gift God himself? No, but...
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 11:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Jesus? Virgin Mary? Satan? Godzilla?
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 11:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

His only son? The tree of knowledge? The forbidden fruit? Something else given during creation/garden of eden?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2010 - 11:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Gregory Coke: Jesus? Virgin Mary? Satan? No to all Godzilla? No, but very funny.

Galfisk: His only son? The tree of knowledge? The forbidden fruit?
Something else given during creation/garden of edenThis is closest, no to rest?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 5:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OK, since this hasn't been remarked upon for a while, and you've gotten the main idea, I've just been pedantic about detail, should I spoyle?
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 6:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I think you missed my questions from Tue, 10:41 pm...
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 6:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I think you missed my questions from Tue, 10:41 pm...
*blinks* How'd I do that?! Sorry, Rbruma!! Rectified below with my profuse apologies...
Something along the lines of: you are free to choose... but make the wrong choice and you'll pay?Yes, sort of...
Is the gift a specific instance of exercising free will? YES! :D
Anything to do with bearing children?No.
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 8:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Distingushing between right and wrong? And the price was death?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Post Number: 893
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Posted on Wednesday, October 20, 2010 - 4:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Distingushing between right and wrong? Well, sort of. "Free will" was closer...actually, it was the right answer, I was being pedantic about wording. I'll spoyle below.
And the price was death? In the sense of separation from God, at least.

***SPOILER***
One of my favorite authors on the Tolkien fanfiction site 'Stories of Arda' is Fiondil. He's written several things that I've used before (his description of Valmar for my first Latventure, his feast for my tables in Painting the Roses Red...etc.) and one of my favorites of his short pieces was called "POWER: Divine Restraint". It's a sort of "look at the other side". He had a long epic dealing with Creation as Tolkien laid it out in the Silmarillion, called "Wars of the Valar". This short ficlet showed what the Ainur, brethren of the Valar and Maiar who had remained behind in the "Timeless Halls", Tolkien's "Heaven", thought as their Fallen Brother, Melkor, warred against the Valar.

Two of the Ainur (angels) came to ask their Atar (God, the Father) why He did not stop Melkor from trying to destroy the universe. Atar smiled and said "Because I gave unto him the same gift I gave unto all of ye, My Children. Canst ye not guess what gift that is?" It took them a while, and a lot of suggesting some of the same things you did, but finally one of them said...

"Thy gift to us is the ability to refuse Thy gift?"

And so it was. Free will is the gift...I just wanted it worded more specifically and was being pedantic, as Atar said "I gave ye the free will not only to love Me but also to refuse My gift of love, to reject Me."

It's something I go back to a lot...remembering that in my faith, too, I believe that evil only is allowed to exist as, ultimately, an instrument of good...even if I can't see the ultimate Design.

As the Professor himself said...

‘Of all His Designs, the issue must be for His children’s joy.’

— J. R. R. Tolkien

Thank you all for reading and participating. Kudos to Galfisk, Rbruma, and Gregory Coke, and even Balin though knowing this tale already made him bow out.

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