| Author | Message | ||
| La_sparky (La_sparky)
New member Username: La_sparky Post Number: 203 Registered: 10-2008 |
The rules may be saving lives of many people, but by their own standards, they are also endangering lives. | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 730 Registered: 9-2009 |
Rules: laws made by humans? physics (natural) laws? rules of God? rules of conduct in a certain activity / profession? driving rules? Endangering lives - type of danger: loss of life or limb? loss of property? other type of monetary loss? loss of prestige? loss of salvation in the afterlife? Time relevant? Location? | ||
| La_sparky (La_sparky)
New member Username: La_sparky Post Number: 204 Registered: 10-2008 |
Rules: laws made by humans? thisphysics (natural) laws? rules of God? rules of conduct in a certain activity / profession?not rules of conduct, but certain activity/profession is relevant driving rules? Endangering lives - type of danger: loss of life or limb?life, or could cause sickness loss of property? other type of monetary loss? loss of prestige? loss of salvation in the afterlife? Time relevant? Location?ish, the specific activity is more relevant | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 733 Registered: 9-2009 |
The medical profession relevant? Fire-fighting? Military rules? Are the rules established by: the national legislative authority? Some branch of the executive? A professional association? Are they mandatory for the profession they apply to? Or are they a sort of best practices? | ||
| Lordofthegeeks1000 (Lordofthegeeks1000)
New member Username: Lordofthegeeks1000 Post Number: 49 Registered: 1-2010 |
Are the law still in effect? Are they in effect in the USA? Is it normally a risky profession? | ||
| La_sparky (La_sparky)
New member Username: La_sparky Post Number: 205 Registered: 10-2008 |
The medical profession relevant?medical field in general yes Fire-fighting? Military rules? all others no Are the rules established by: the national legislative authority? Some branch of the executive? A professional association?this Are they mandatory for the profession they apply to?yes Or are they a sort of best practices? | ||
| Rbruma (Rbruma)
New member Username: Rbruma Post Number: 750 Registered: 9-2009 |
Do the rules pertain to: doctors? nurses? patients? hospitals as institution? others? Are they intended to protect the patients? Is any medical profession more relevant? | ||
| La_sparky (La_sparky)
New member Username: La_sparky Post Number: 210 Registered: 10-2008 |
Do the rules pertain to: doctors? nurses?yes patients?as well as this, SVV of patients hospitals as institution?no others? Are they intended to protect the patients?protect one set of patients yes. There are two sets involved here Is any medical profession more relevant?more of medical area. Think medical organizations | ||
| La_sparky (La_sparky)
New member Username: La_sparky Post Number: 211 Registered: 10-2008 |
Do the rules pertain to: doctors? nurses?this a little bit patients?this, svv of patients hospitals as institution? others? Are they intended to protect the patients?one group of patients yes, there are two involved here Is any medical profession more relevant?no, just think of specific medical organizations | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 7136 Registered: 4-2010 |
You missed LOTG's questions above.... Are germs relevant? Cleanliness? | ||
| La_sparky (La_sparky)
New member Username: La_sparky Post Number: 212 Registered: 10-2008 |
Are the law still in effect? just beginning to be taken down, but mostly in effect}Are they in effect in the USA?ditto Is it normally a risky profession?no You missed LOTG's questions above.... sorry about that, my computer was freaking out as evidenced by my answering of the next set of questions twice Are germs relevant?no, but OTRT Cleanliness?no | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 7252 Registered: 4-2010 |
Rules about how nurses can treat patients? Are the patients mentally ill? In nursing homes? | ||
| La_sparky (La_sparky)
New member Username: La_sparky Post Number: 213 Registered: 10-2008 |
Rules about how nurses can treat patients?this is close. but recall that it is svv of patients and not necessarily at a hospital Are the patients mentally ill? In nursing homes? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 7273 Registered: 4-2010 |
Are the "svv-patients" being treated for injuries? For long-term illnesses? For comas? | ||
| La_sparky (La_sparky)
New member Username: La_sparky Post Number: 216 Registered: 10-2008 |
ok there is one group of actual patients for the other group,Are the "svv-patients" being treated for injuries? For long-term illnesses? For comas?no to all | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 7288 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is a study going on? Double-blind test? | ||
| La_sparky (La_sparky)
New member Username: La_sparky Post Number: 218 Registered: 10-2008 |
Is a study going on? Double-blind test?no to both | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 7292 Registered: 4-2010 |
Are the actual patients being treated for injuries? For long-term illnesses? For comas? | ||
| La_sparky (La_sparky)
New member Username: La_sparky Post Number: 219 Registered: 10-2008 |
Are the actual patients being treated for injuries? thisFor long-term illnesses? or thisFor comas?as far as I know not this, but possible | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 7301 Registered: 4-2010 |
The actual patients - do they require hospital stays? Long ones? Rehab relevant? Or physical therapy? | ||
| La_sparky (La_sparky)
New member Username: La_sparky Post Number: 222 Registered: 10-2008 |
The actual patients - do they require hospital stays?generally Long ones?sometimes Rehab relevant? Or physical therapy?no to those | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 7308 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is the gender of the patients relevant? Male? Female? | ||
| La_sparky (La_sparky)
New member Username: La_sparky Post Number: 224 Registered: 10-2008 |
Is the gender of the patients relevant?for the svv of patients group, yes. Sorry it's hard to make it more clear so far Male? Female?this | ||
| Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
New member Username: Kayleetonkslupin Post Number: 951 Registered: 9-2010 |
Pregnant women? | ||
| La_sparky (La_sparky)
New member Username: La_sparky Post Number: 225 Registered: 10-2008 |
Pregnant women?in a round about way yes, but I wouldn't focus on that particular tangent right now if I were you | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 7313 Registered: 4-2010 |
Women who are infertile? Want to get pregnant? Had miscarriages? Abortions? | ||
| La_sparky (La_sparky)
New member Username: La_sparky Post Number: 227 Registered: 10-2008 |
Women who are infertile? Want to get pregnant? Had miscarriages? Abortions?women who have been pregnant at some point in time | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 7314 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is the other group their children? Other relatives of theirs? | ||
| La_sparky (La_sparky)
New member Username: La_sparky Post Number: 229 Registered: 10-2008 |
Is the other group their children? Other relatives of theirs?no to both, the two groups do not know eachother at all | ||
| Potato (Potato)
New member Username: Potato Post Number: 108 Registered: 7-2010 |
Hormones relevant? Is the other group women who haven't been pregnant? Are the once pregnant women the people who are saved and the other group the people whose lives are endangered (or vice versa)? Is it because according to the rules, both groups are to be treated equally/differently although they really shouldn't be? | ||
| La_sparky (La_sparky)
New member Username: La_sparky Post Number: 230 Registered: 10-2008 |
Hormones relevant? no, in a very small way you could probably argue for yes, but I would say no Is the other group women who haven't been pregnant? some of them probably are, but completely irrel Are the once pregnant women the people who are savedno, the once pregnant women are actually only part of that group, adn that group is not saved and the other group the people whose lives are endangeredbut this is true (or vice versa)? Is it because according to the rules, both groups are to be treated equally/differently although they really shouldn't be?no | ||
| La_sparky (La_sparky)
New member Username: La_sparky Post Number: 235 Registered: 10-2008 |
HINT: the organization involved is the Red Cross | ||
| Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
New member Username: Gregoryuconn Post Number: 228 Registered: 9-2010 |
Can we call the group who is saved Group A and the group who isn't Group B? Is Group B causing Group A to be in danger? If not for Group B, would Group A need assistance from the Red Cross? Or would they already be dead? Is Group B a terrorist organization? And they attack Group A thus causing the Red Cross to intervene and when force is used by the military against Group B they don't save them? | ||
| La_sparky (La_sparky)
New member Username: La_sparky Post Number: 238 Registered: 10-2008 |
Can we call the group who is saved Group A and the group who isn't Group B? YES! would be very helpful indeed Is Group B causing Group A to be in danger? no If not for Group B, would Group A need assistance from the Red Cross?no Or would they already be dead? if not for Group B, many in Group A would die yes Is Group B a terrorist organization? And they attack Group A thus causing the Red Cross to intervene and when force is used by the military against Group B they don't save them?no to these HINT: try to figure out exactly what is going on between group A and B, then we can move on to the next part of the puzzle. Ignore the pregnancy part for now. Pregnancy has something to do with group B, but group B is not necessarily pregnant or not pregnant so many of these questions have been FA's | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 7391 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is Group B people giving blood? | ||
| La_sparky (La_sparky)
New member Username: La_sparky Post Number: 240 Registered: 10-2008 |
Is Group B people giving blood?YES!!!! so the rules are about giving blood..there is also one similar thing involved.. Group A is no longer relevant to the puzzle | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 7404 Registered: 4-2010 |
Deferring relevant? Rules about who can and cannot give blood? Or when one can? | ||
| La_sparky (La_sparky)
New member Username: La_sparky Post Number: 243 Registered: 10-2008 |
Deferring relevant?yes Rules about who can and cannot give blood? yesOr when one can?no | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 7437 Registered: 4-2010 |
So the first part of the puzzle statement refers to the rules about who can/can't give blood, and that they may be "saving lives" in that they prevent potential disease from being passed along through transfusions, correct? Are they "endangering lives" in that there might not be enough blood to go around? | ||
| Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
New member Username: Kayleetonkslupin Post Number: 1006 Registered: 9-2010 |
HIV/AIDS or other blood-borne diseases relevant? | ||
| La_sparky (La_sparky)
New member Username: La_sparky Post Number: 246 Registered: 10-2008 |
So the first part of the puzzle statement refers to the rules about who can/can't give blood, and that they may be "saving lives" in that they prevent potential disease from being passed along through transfusions, correct? Yes Are they "endangering lives" in that there might not be enough blood to go around?no HIV/AIDS or other blood-borne diseases relevant?no HINT: plasma pheresis is also involved as well. Feel free to google. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 7476 Registered: 4-2010 |
Treatment of diseases relevant? Different blood types relevant? | ||
| La_sparky (La_sparky)
New member Username: La_sparky Post Number: 248 Registered: 10-2008 |
Treatment of diseases relevant? Different blood types relevant?no to both | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 7487 Registered: 4-2010 |
Do people give plasma? Instead of giving whole blood? | ||
| La_sparky (La_sparky)
New member Username: La_sparky Post Number: 249 Registered: 10-2008 |
Do people give plasma? Instead of giving whole blood? some people do yes | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 7499 Registered: 4-2010 |
The lives endangered - are they from Group A? Group B? Is there an unforseen danger in giving just plasma? Are there deferring rules for who can give just plasma? | ||
| La_sparky (La_sparky)
New member Username: La_sparky Post Number: 252 Registered: 10-2008 |
The lives endangered - are they from Group A?this Group B? Is there an unforseen danger in giving just plasma?no Are there deferring rules for who can give just plasma?yes | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 7516 Registered: 4-2010 |
Are the relevant rules related to disease? To geographical location? To age? Weight? Race? Are any rules relevant, period? | ||
| La_sparky (La_sparky)
New member Username: La_sparky Post Number: 253 Registered: 10-2008 |
Are the relevant rules related to disease?closest to this To geographical location? To age? Weight? Race?no to these...but there is one missing that it does relate to Are any rules relevant, period?yes | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 7546 Registered: 4-2010 |
Rules related to sexual orientation? | ||
| La_sparky (La_sparky)
New member Username: La_sparky Post Number: 255 Registered: 10-2008 |
Rules related to sexual orientation?no | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 7566 Registered: 4-2010 |
Rules related to travel? | ||
| La_sparky (La_sparky)
New member Username: La_sparky Post Number: 257 Registered: 10-2008 |
Rules related to travel?nope, look back from the questions at the beginning of this puzzle and you should get an idea | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 7577 Registered: 4-2010 |
Rules about doctors giving blood? | ||
| La_sparky (La_sparky)
New member Username: La_sparky Post Number: 259 Registered: 10-2008 |
Rules about doctors giving blood?no | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 7584 Registered: 4-2010 |
Rules about certain occupations giving blood? | ||
| La_sparky (La_sparky)
New member Username: La_sparky Post Number: 261 Registered: 10-2008 |
Rules about certain occupations giving blood?nope | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 7684 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is it just that there might not be enough blood to help everyone needing a transfusion? | ||
| La_sparky (La_sparky)
New member Username: La_sparky Post Number: 263 Registered: 10-2008 |
Is it just that there might not be enough blood to help everyone needing a transfusion?no | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 7686 Registered: 4-2010 |
Are the specific illnesses of those in Group A relevant? Or just that they are long-term? | ||
| La_sparky (La_sparky)
New member Username: La_sparky Post Number: 264 Registered: 10-2008 |
Are the specific illnesses of those in Group A relevant?not at all, just that they need a blood transfusion Or just that they are long-term? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 7783 Registered: 4-2010 |
Do those in Group A need a transfusion of whole blood? Of just plasma? Is the fear in potentially giving plasma to someone needing whole blood? Vice Versa? | ||
| La_sparky (La_sparky)
New member Username: La_sparky Post Number: 267 Registered: 10-2008 |
Do those in Group A need a transfusion of whole blood? Of just plasma? Is the fear in potentially giving plasma to someone needing whole blood? Vice Versa?no to the last two clarification/hint: there is a discrepancy between the deferring rules for plasma and whole blood that there admittedly shouldn't be. so the people in group A include plasma and whole blood recipients. In fact, Group A was only brought into the puzzle so you could figure out the relevant topic | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 7818 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is the discrepancy related to those who have given blood in the past? Those at risk for a certain disease? | ||
| La_sparky (La_sparky)
New member Username: La_sparky Post Number: 269 Registered: 10-2008 |
Is the discrepancy related to those who have given blood in the past? Those at risk for a certain disease?no to both | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 7828 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is the discrepancy related to those who have already had a transfusion? | ||
| La_sparky (La_sparky)
New member Username: La_sparky Post Number: 270 Registered: 10-2008 |
Is the discrepancy related to those who have already had a transfusion?no | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 7865 Registered: 4-2010 |
Could you please recap what we know about the discrepancy? | ||
| La_sparky (La_sparky)
New member Username: La_sparky Post Number: 272 Registered: 10-2008 |
RECAP: Giving blood or plasma saves lives. Tha is indisputed. There is a deferring rule that is different between blood donation and plasma donation. This rule involves pregnancy in some way, although that is NOT the main part of it. Because of the discrepancy between the deferring rules, lives are being endangered. | ||
| Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
New member Username: Kayleetonkslupin Post Number: 1207 Registered: 9-2010 |
Cord blood involved? | ||
| La_sparky (La_sparky)
New member Username: La_sparky Post Number: 274 Registered: 10-2008 |
Cord blood involved?no | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 7870 Registered: 4-2010 |
Does the rule involve people who are pregnant? Have been pregnant? Cannot get pregnant? Plan on becoming pregnant? | ||
| Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
New member Username: Kayleetonkslupin Post Number: 1212 Registered: 9-2010 |
"Women who are currently nursing, pregnant, or may become pregnant should not 'do X'"? (Usually it involves taking some medication or other. I hear it all the time...sometimes as "Women who are nursing, pregnant, or may become pregnant should consult their doctor before taking "X".) | ||
| La_sparky (La_sparky)
New member Username: La_sparky Post Number: 276 Registered: 10-2008 |
Does the rule involve people who are pregnant?wope Have been pregnant? yopeCannot get pregnant? Plan on becoming pregnant? "Women who are currently nursing, pregnant, or may become pregnant should not 'do X'"? (Usually it involves taking some medication or other. I hear it all the time...sometimes as "Women who are nursing, pregnant, or may become pregnant should consult their doctor before taking "X".) lets make this easier and say it involves all women. Pregnancy is just the underlying reason for this rule. This is what I was trying to get you to ask earlier when you were asking about age, weight, race, etc | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 7937 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is the rule simply that women are not allowed to give just plasma? | ||
| La_sparky (La_sparky)
New member Username: La_sparky Post Number: 277 Registered: 10-2008 |
Is the rule simply that women are not allowed to give just plasma?yes. Actually, For awhile it was just that they would not accept new female donors, but that is more specific than is relevant to the puzzle | ||
| Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
New member Username: Kayleetonkslupin Post Number: 1277 Registered: 9-2010 |
They're not? Why not? That's weird. Why just women?? (Or is that the...you know...to the puzzle?) | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 7969 Registered: 4-2010 |
Well, that rule eliminates half of all possible donors...relevant? | ||
| La_sparky (La_sparky)
New member Username: La_sparky Post Number: 278 Registered: 10-2008 |
They're not? Why not? That's weird. Why just women?? (Or is that the...you know...to the puzzle?)it's not exactly the answer to the puzzle, so I'll go ahead and tell you: there is an enzyme produced in SOME women who have been pregnant that has basically proved harmful in transfusions Well, that rule eliminates half of all possible donors...relevant?no, that's not what I'm looking for | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 7979 Registered: 4-2010 |
Would reversing the rule endanger lives b/c of the enzyme? | ||
| La_sparky (La_sparky)
New member Username: La_sparky Post Number: 279 Registered: 10-2008 |
Would reversing the rule endanger lives b/c of the enzyme?yes | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 7996 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is there a movement/motion/petition going around to reverse the rule? Which would endanger lives? | ||
| La_sparky (La_sparky)
New member Username: La_sparky Post Number: 280 Registered: 10-2008 |
Is there a movement/motion/petition going around to reverse the rule? Which would endanger lives?no | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 8125 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is the rule endangering lives because of something about women's plasma? Something about that enzyme? | ||
| La_sparky (La_sparky)
New member Username: La_sparky Post Number: 281 Registered: 10-2008 |
Is the rule endangering lives because of something about women's plasma? Something about that enzyme?no. Keep in mind that regular giving blood is involved as well | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 8135 Registered: 4-2010 |
Can the enzyme in certain women also come through giving normal blood? | ||
| La_sparky (La_sparky)
New member Username: La_sparky Post Number: 282 Registered: 10-2008 |
Can the enzyme in certain women also come through giving normal blood?yes | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 8154 Registered: 4-2010 |
So are lives being endangered in that the enzyme may still pass through a normal blood transfusion? | ||
| La_sparky (La_sparky)
New member Username: La_sparky Post Number: 283 Registered: 10-2008 |
So are lives being endangered in that the enzyme may still pass through a normal blood transfusion?yes | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 8248 Registered: 4-2010 |
So... The rule that women may not give plasma because of this enzyme is saving lives by eliminating the enzyme in plasma transfusions, but is also endangering lives because of the possibility that the enzyme may pass through a transfusion of whole blood. This everything? Or do we need more? | ||
| La_sparky (La_sparky)
New member Username: La_sparky Post Number: 284 Registered: 10-2008 |
So... The rule that women may not give plasma because of this enzyme is saving lives by eliminating the enzyme in plasma transfusions, but is also endangering lives because of the possibility that the enzyme may pass through a transfusion of whole blood. This everything? Or do we need more? this is pretty much everything, I'll explain the details, so: SPOILER I've been giving blood since I turned sixteen. For some personal reasons, and because I could do it every week instead of every two months, I asked if I could do pheresis. I was told that they weren't accepting any NEW female donors for pheresis because of the possibility of an enzyme in the blood of some women who have been pregnant. Apparently this enxyme was recently discovered, and one thing they could do is come up with a test for this enzyme. However, the more cost effective and time effective thing to do is defer people. This reduces the worry and makes it seem like they are doing something about it. I asked specifically though and this enzyme can be passed along through whole blood as well, but deferring all women from giving whole blood would be devastating to the supply, and a test would cost money, it is just not being mentioned. Sorry if the explanation is a little wordy. UPDATE: since I posted this puzzle, the blood center called and said that I am able to do pheresis, they are beginning to accept new female donors(who haven't ever been pregnant) | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 8274 Registered: 4-2010 |
Interesting, the way they defer... I liked this one! |
