| Author | Message | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1608 Registered: 11-2003 |
"Honestly, how difficult can it be? All he has to do, is to fax that to us." | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 8270 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is this a computer stupidity? "He" = H? A? M? Speaker of the quote: H? A? M? Is the stupidity related to faxing? Folding the paper over before faxing so no one else could read it? Holding the paper up to the screen to fax it? Saying "fax me everything on this disk" and having the disk itself sent through the fax machine? | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1612 Registered: 11-2003 |
Is this a computer stupidity? Nope "He" = H? A? M? Yes Speaker of the quote: H? A? M? HAF (I think, but gender not relevant) Is the stupidity related to faxing? No, not the process of sending a fax Folding the paper over before faxing so no one else could read it? Holding the paper up to the screen to fax it? Saying "fax me everything on this disk" and having the disk itself sent through the fax machine? So no to all these | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 8298 Registered: 4-2010 |
Does "he" even own a fax machine? Is the thing to be faxed something that is not allowed to? Like cash? Or cannot be? Like the contents of a sealed envelope? | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1616 Registered: 11-2003 |
Does "he" even own a fax machine? He has access to one Is the thing to be faxed something that is not allowed to? Like cash? Or cannot be? This is closest, it cannot be faxed. Because?? Like the contents of a sealed envelope? No to all the rest | ||
| Potato (Potato)
New member Username: Potato Post Number: 263 Registered: 7-2010 |
Is it somehing that's too large or too rigid to go through the fax machine? Is it a book(let)? Or several sheets of paper that are stapled together? Does the speaker have a fax machine? | ||
| Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
New member Username: Kayleetonkslupin Post Number: 1450 Registered: 9-2010 |
Were they trying to fax a fax machine? (I hope no one's that stupid, LOL) | ||
| Kaygee (Kaygee)
New member Username: Kaygee Post Number: 613 Registered: 9-2008 |
Is the speaker a customer? a business associate? Is "he who is expected to use the fax machine" a customer? a business associate? (Whew, where is Kaylee to give these people some names?) | ||
| Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
New member Username: Kayleetonkslupin Post Number: 1453 Registered: 9-2010 |
Teaching sibling the LTPF lingo. She's asking me "what's a woubit" I said "that would be mr. woubit" and she still wants to know what's a woubit, and I said "he is" LOL... HAM = Jack, HAF (irrelevant) = Sam. There. | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1622 Registered: 11-2003 |
Potato (Potato) Is it somehing that's too large or too rigid to go through the fax machine? Is it a book(let)? Or several sheets of paper that are stapled together? Neither of these Does the speaker have a fax machine? There is one available to her where she works. Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin) Were they trying to fax a fax machine? (I hope no one's that stupid, LOL) No, lol Kaygee (Kaygee) Is the speaker a customer? a business associate? No to both Is "he who is expected to use the fax machine" a customer? Yope a business associate? No (Whew, where is Kaylee to give these people some names?) Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin) Teaching sibling the LTPF lingo. She's asking me "what's a woubit" I said "that would be mr. woubit" and she still wants to know what's a woubit, and I said "he is" LOL... - So a new LTPF'er in training?? Brilliant! HAM = Jack, HAF (irrelevant) = Sam. There. Perfect! | ||
| Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
New member Username: Kayleetonkslupin Post Number: 1475 Registered: 9-2010 |
Yep, new LTPF'er in training, that's my Tortie. Posted her first puzzle and everything...and it's even woubit-y, I think! *grin* Have you stopped by to look? *is very proud of TortieKitten* aww, my tortiesibling. :-) | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 8333 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is he trying to use a photocopier as a fax machine? A fax machine to make copies? | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1626 Registered: 11-2003 |
Is he trying to use a photocopier as a fax machine? A fax machine to make copies? So many good suggestions, but I'm afraid it's no again. It is something totally different going on here. HINT: It is not Jack who is the stupid one. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 8360 Registered: 4-2010 |
Was it the speaker who was the stupid one here? Did she even own a fax machine? Did it have paper in it? | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1629 Registered: 11-2003 |
Was it the speaker who was the stupid one here? Did she even own a fax machine? Did it have paper in it? Yes to all. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 8365 Registered: 4-2010 |
Was the fax machine plugged in? Had she given Jack the correct fax number? | ||
| Potato (Potato)
New member Username: Potato Post Number: 277 Registered: 7-2010 |
Had she given him any fax number at all? | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1633 Registered: 11-2003 |
Balin (Balin) Was the fax machine plugged in? Had she given Jack the correct fax number? Yes to both Potato (Potato) Had she given him any fax number at all? Yes, the problem was not with the fax machine. What she wanted him to fax is completely impossible - in some situations. | ||
| Biograd (Biograd)
New member Username: Biograd Post Number: 1183 Registered: 6-2008 |
Can it not be faxed because it would not fit into the fax machine? Because the writing on it would be "invisible" to the machine? Was the thing to be faxed actually on a sheet of paper? | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1636 Registered: 11-2003 |
Can it not be faxed because it would not fit into the fax machine? Because the writing on it would be "invisible" to the machine? Was the thing to be faxed actually on a sheet of paper? I have problems answering either of these questions properly, because there has been a big FA lurking for a while. I think I'll do a recap with a couple of hints to see if that helps. | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1637 Registered: 11-2003 |
RECAP Sam is asking Jack to fax her some fairly important information. But Jack is not able to do so, for a very particular reason. However, Sam does not understand why he cannot fax whatever she wants him to. In most similar cases, faxing that particular information is no problem at all. Given a situation where it had been possible to fax that information, it would be a small piece of paper with something printed, and maybe stamped in it. HINTS: Locations are relevant. Also, somewhat relevant is Sam's job, at least where she's working. I will also give you one piece of information that I am surprised no one has asked (because this is usually one question that pops up fairly early). There is one other person involved in this scenario, my ex-colleague that told me this story. Let's call her Eve. She is actually the one talking to Sam, on Jack's behalf. | ||
| Potato (Potato)
New member Username: Potato Post Number: 278 Registered: 7-2010 |
Was whatever she wanted Jack to fax something that wasn't printed on paper? And couldn't be printed on paper, either? Or only with effort? Like via hard-to-obtain special printers or something? Was it something that was on the display of some machine? Or was it even a machine? Or some other three-dimensional object? And simply taking a photo of it and faxing that wouldn't satisfy her needs? Or was the thing an idea on Jack's mind? Or something Jack didn't have access to? Did she want him to fax her the internet or something like that? xD Would it be possible to send the thing by e-mail? Or by post? | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1638 Registered: 11-2003 |
Was whatever she wanted Jack to fax something that wasn't printed on paper? Well, it wasn't possible. Because..... And couldn't be printed on paper, either? Ditto Or only with effort? Like via hard-to-obtain special printers or something? No to both Was it something that was on the display of some machine? Or was it even a machine? Or some other three-dimensional object? And simply taking a photo of it and faxing that wouldn't satisfy her needs? Or was the thing an idea on Jack's mind? Or something Jack didn't have access to? This is sort of OTRT, but no to the others. Did she want him to fax her the internet or something like that? xD Would it be possible to send the thing by e-mail? Or by post? No to both | ||
| Potato (Potato)
New member Username: Potato Post Number: 279 Registered: 7-2010 |
So, when it's not possible to fax it, it wouldn't be a piece of paper? Would it be available electronically then? Or would it have to be written down in the first place? Is the thing an official document, such as a passport or a driver's license? And when it's not possible to fax, is it so because it's a plastic card instead of a piece of paper? With a chip in it? And the chip contains the needed information? Or would it be notarially certified document? And the fax version wouldn't have the same status legally, because only the original has? When you say locations are relevant, do you refer to the Jack's and Sam's fields of work? Do both have similar jobs? Or do you refer to the cities? States? Countries? Continents? In Germany, the (newer) driver's licenses are made of plastic and have a chip card format, btw. Dunno what that's like in other countries, though. | ||
| Biograd (Biograd)
New member Username: Biograd Post Number: 1187 Registered: 6-2008 |
So the key thing that needed to be faxed was a particular kind of information, not a particular document? Did that information even exist? (for example, if someone was supposed to fax a high school diploma, but had never attended high school in the first place, this would clearly be impossible). | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1640 Registered: 11-2003 |
So the key thing that needed to be faxed was a particular kind of information, not a particular document? Yes, that would be a correct assumption Did that information even exist? (for example, if someone was supposed to fax a high school diploma, but had never attended high school in the first place, this would clearly be impossible). This is definitely OTRT, even though it is not the example you provided. And it is not something similar to that either, as Jack is not trying to fool her. Remember, locations are relevant and so is Sam's work place. | ||
| Biograd (Biograd)
New member Username: Biograd Post Number: 1188 Registered: 6-2008 |
I don't think that question was really answered. Does the information that needs to be faxed, not exist in the first place? or if it does exist, does Jack have it, just not in a "faxable" form? or does only someone else have it? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 8387 Registered: 4-2010 |
You missed Potato's questions above... Is the information something that she has, but Jack does not have? Or that she has not given to Jack? Or, simply that because she has it already, having Jack fax it would be redundantly redundant? | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1642 Registered: 11-2003 |
Sooooo sorry, Potato!!! So, when it's not possible to fax it, it wouldn't be a piece of paper? The item Sam was expecting Jack to fax, would have been a piece of paper Would it be available electronically then? No Or would it have to be written down in the first place? Something has to be written on the piece of paper, but it also contains preprinted information Is the thing an official document, such as a passport or a driver's license? And when it's not possible to fax, is it so because it's a plastic card instead of a piece of paper? With a chip in it? And the chip contains the needed information? No to all Or would it be notarially certified document? Not as such, but something has to be stamped on it. And the fax version wouldn't have the same status legally, because only the original has? But this is not it. When you say locations are relevant, do you refer to the Jack's and Sam's fields of work? Sam's type of job is relevant Do both have similar jobs? No Or do you refer to the cities? States? Countries? This Continents? In Germany, the (newer) driver's licenses are made of plastic and have a chip card format, btw. Dunno what that's like in other countries, though. I think that is slowly coming in to the whole EU/EEA area, but this has nothing to do with the puzzle, lol And now to the other questions..... | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1643 Registered: 11-2003 |
Biograd (Biograd) I don't think that question was really answered. I'll try my best to clear up things Does the information that needs to be faxed, not exist in the first place? It does not. What Sam is asking for is something Jack cannot provide. or if it does exist, does Jack have it, just not in a "faxable" form? or does only someone else have it? No to both Balin (Balin) You missed Potato's questions above... Done now Is the information something that she has, but Jack does not have? Or that she has not given to Jack? Or, simply that because she has it already, having Jack fax it would be redundantly redundant? No to all | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 8400 Registered: 4-2010 |
Could Jack fax the preprinted info without the written thing? Does Sam have to sign the paper? And she wants Jack to fax her signature? | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1648 Registered: 11-2003 |
Could Jack fax the preprinted info without the written thing? No. Well, he could try, but it would be of no use to him. Does Sam have to sign the paper? And she wants Jack to fax her signature? No to both | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 8410 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is the written part a signature? Does the paper need to be signed at all? | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1654 Registered: 11-2003 |
Is the written part a signature? Yope, someone usually has to initial it, but there is also something else written on the page Does the paper need to be signed at all? It needs some sort of verification, but today some countries may have systems where the initialing is replaced by some sort electronic stamp or similar. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 8450 Registered: 4-2010 |
A prescription? | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1659 Registered: 11-2003 |
A prescription? No | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1681 Registered: 11-2003 |
So here's a little recap with hints. Eve is talking to Sam, on Jack's behalf. He needs something that Sam can provide, but she needs a certain form of verification to do so. In order to proceed, she asks him to send him that very particular verification/proof by faxing it to her. But due to circumstances, Jack is not able to as he cannot get that very specific verification she is demanding, and Sam (this is the stupid part) cannot understand why 'he can't just DO it'. A few hints to kick-start this one. Locations are relevant, and we are talking on a country level. Explore. Also, Sam's job is as a public/civil servant. And the thing/verification Sam needs - it is something most of us are dealing with on a regular basis. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 8526 Registered: 4-2010 |
Country - on [LTPF list of continents]? Does the verification have to be in a certain person's handwriting? Someone from the government? | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1687 Registered: 11-2003 |
Country - on [LTPF list of continents]? Both Sam and Eve/Jack are in Europe, but not in the same country. Does the verification have to be in a certain person's handwriting? Someone from the government? No to both. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 8532 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is either of them in England? Ireland? France? Spain? Russia (the part in Europe)? Greece? Italy? Poland? Switzerland? Germany? Latvia? Romania? Georgia? Portugal? Norway? Sweden? Finland? Denmark? Iceland? Luxembourg? Bosnia? Lithuania? Austria? Other countries I forgot? | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1693 Registered: 11-2003 |
Is either of them in England? Ireland? France? Spain? Russia (the part in Europe)? Greece? Italy? Poland? Switzerland? Germany? Latvia? Romania? Georgia? Portugal? Norway? Sweden? Finland? Denmark? Iceland? Luxembourg? Bosnia? Lithuania? Austria? Other countries I forgot? Sam is in Norway, and as far as I remember Eve and Jack are in Poland. But their spesific location is not too relevant. The relevant part is that they are not in Norway, so not in the same country as Sam. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 8543 Registered: 4-2010 |
Any Norwegian laws relevant? Anything about international faxing relevant? Costs? | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1698 Registered: 11-2003 |
Any Norwegian laws relevant? Anything about international faxing relevant? Costs? No to all. Jack has to 'do' something to obtain the verification Sam is asking for. Explore. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 8551 Registered: 4-2010 |
Does Jack need to get the verification from Sam? | ||
| Martinfg (Martinfg)
New member Username: Martinfg Post Number: 861 Registered: 8-2005 |
Is it something like a blood or DNA sample? | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1702 Registered: 11-2003 |
Balin (Balin) Does Jack need to get the verification from Sam? No, that verification has to come from someone else as a result in doing something spesific. Martinfg (Martinfg) Is it something like a blood or DNA sample? No to both | ||
| Potato (Potato)
New member Username: Potato Post Number: 296 Registered: 7-2010 |
Does Jack want to travel to Norway? Or even move there? Does Sam want him to send her some kind of proof that he already lives there? Or works there? Or goes to school/university there? But he can't do either without whatever Sam is supposed to send to him? | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1705 Registered: 11-2003 |
Does Jack want to travel to Norway? No, not at this point in time anyway Or even move there? Moving to Norway is irrelevant for this puzzle, as he original was born there, but at the time of this, lives in Poland Does Sam want him to send her some kind of proof that he already lives there? so no Or works there? and no Or goes to school/university there? and no again, lol But he can't do either without whatever Sam is supposed to send to him? Same is not going to send him anything, but he has received something in the mail from the department where Sam is working. | ||
| Potato (Potato)
New member Username: Potato Post Number: 297 Registered: 7-2010 |
Is the thing that Sam wants Jack to send something that would only be available for him if he was living in Norway? Are bills relevant? | ||
| Martinfg (Martinfg)
New member Username: Martinfg Post Number: 863 Registered: 8-2005 |
"but he has received something in the mail from the department where Sam is working" Does Sam want proof he has recieved this in the mail? | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1706 Registered: 11-2003 |
Potato (Potato) Is the thing that Sam wants Jack to send something that would only be available for him if he was living in Norway? Yes! Are bills relevant? And yes Martinfg (Martinfg) "but he has received something in the mail from the department where Sam is working" Does Sam want proof he has recieved this in the mail? No | ||
| Martinfg (Martinfg)
New member Username: Martinfg Post Number: 864 Registered: 8-2005 |
Snow? Ice? Is insurance relevant? | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1708 Registered: 11-2003 |
Snow? Ice? Is insurance relevant? No to all. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 8597 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is the document specific to Norway? Would other documents of this type be specific to other countries as well? Citizenship relevant? | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1710 Registered: 11-2003 |
Is the document specific to Norway? The specific document they sent Jack and needed him to act on, Yes Would other documents of this type be specific to other countries as well? Yes Citizenship relevant? No | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 8611 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is the document related to where one is living? | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1715 Registered: 11-2003 |
Is the document related to where one is living? No. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 8626 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is the document related to the government? Is it a marriage license? Something related to marriage? Birth? Death? Divorce? Property? Taxes? | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1718 Registered: 11-2003 |
Is the document related to the government? Yes Is it a marriage license? Something related to marriage? Birth? Death? Divorce? Property? Taxes? This, one very specific tax. Explore. No to rest. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 8634 Registered: 4-2010 |
Property tax? Income tax? Is the tax related to food? Electronics? Water? Health? Profession? Using fax machines? | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1721 Registered: 11-2003 |
Property tax? Income tax? Is the tax related to food? Electronics? Water? Health? Profession? Using fax machines? No to all. It's related to transportation. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 8647 Registered: 4-2010 |
Gasoline tax? Automobile tax? Luxury car tax? "Gas-guzzler" tax? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 8648 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is the tax related to public transportation? | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1724 Registered: 11-2003 |
Gasoline tax? Automobile tax? This is closest, but I am not sure how common this specific tax is in other countries, so I will tell you. In Ireland it's called Motor Tax, in Norway Road Tax. No to rest Luxury car tax? "Gas-guzzler" tax? Is the tax related to public transportation? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 8655 Registered: 4-2010 |
Was it the tax form that was being faxed? | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1727 Registered: 11-2003 |
Was it the tax form that was being faxed? Not the form itself, he had received a letter regarding the road tax. And he had to do something about that. What? | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 868 Registered: 5-2009 |
Did he have to pay the tax? Prove he paid the tax? Someone else paid the tax? Prove he is exempt from the tax? | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1731 Registered: 11-2003 |
Did he have to pay the tax? This and Prove he paid the tax? this. Now to find out what the stupid thing was. Someone else paid the tax? Prove he is exempt from the tax? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 8725 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did Sam need to do something with the letter? Did it have to be an original of the letter? And not a fax? | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1736 Registered: 11-2003 |
Did Sam need to do something with the letter? Did it have to be an original of the letter? And not a fax? No to all. The letter was simply informing Jack that the Road Tax had to be renewed. The letter also contained something that would be most useful for him, except for the fact he was not in Norway. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 8741 Registered: 4-2010 |
Did he have to give an address? A license plate number? Something about his car? | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1739 Registered: 11-2003 |
Did he have to give an address? A license plate number? Something about his car? No to all. It's much simpler than that. What is usually enclosed in the envelope when someone is asking for money, be it taxes or other types of bills? | ||
| Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
New member Username: Kayleetonkslupin Post Number: 1692 Registered: 9-2010 |
A return envelope? | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1742 Registered: 11-2003 |
A return envelope? No | ||
| Markobr (Markobr)
New member Username: Markobr Post Number: 884 Registered: 5-2009 |
A money transfer form? | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1743 Registered: 11-2003 |
A money transfer form? If you mean the international money transfer forms, like MoneyGram or Western Union - No. That would have made some sense. HINT: The letter from the Road Tax office was not sent directly to him in Poland, but forwarded from his address in Norway. | ||
| Biograd (Biograd)
New member Username: Biograd Post Number: 1255 Registered: 6-2008 |
Did he need to fax the return address, that being the address of the tax collector? whereas the return address given on the envelope was that of the post office in Norway that forwarded it? | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1749 Registered: 11-2003 |
Did he need to fax the return address, that being the address of the tax collector? whereas the return address given on the envelope was that of the post office in Norway that forwarded it? No to all | ||
| Martinfg (Martinfg)
New member Username: Martinfg Post Number: 867 Registered: 8-2005 |
A phone number relevant? | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1753 Registered: 11-2003 |
A phone number relevant? Nope. The letter from the Road Tax office contained something that was meant to help him pay his Road Tax. But remember that the letter was sent to his address in Norway. This part might be a bit tricky. I don't know what kind of systems that exist around the world for paying bills, etc, so I will keep on hinting if needed. | ||
| Martinfg (Martinfg)
New member Username: Martinfg Post Number: 868 Registered: 8-2005 |
The address of a local payment centre? | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1757 Registered: 11-2003 |
The address of a local payment centre? No, but it is sort of OTRT | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 8993 Registered: 4-2010 |
An address, period? | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1759 Registered: 11-2003 |
An address, period? No, sorry. Nothing to do with addresses. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 9233 Registered: 4-2010 |
Something about a payment center? A website? A specific necessary piece of information? | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1762 Registered: 11-2003 |
I thought I had answered this AGES ago. Strange. Here goes then. Something about a payment center? A website? A specific necessary piece of information? No to all. Even though the last one is very close. I'd call it some very spesific type of documentation he needed to pay the road tax. I assume here that this system is widely used. There are differences between Norway and Ireland, but the basics are the same. If you get a bill, there is normally something added, either on it's own or as part of the invoice/bill, that will help you with the monetary transaction. | ||
| Martinfg (Martinfg)
New member Username: Martinfg Post Number: 905 Registered: 8-2005 |
is it VAT? | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1765 Registered: 11-2003 |
is it VAT? Sorry, nothing to do with VAT. | ||
| Martinfg (Martinfg)
New member Username: Martinfg Post Number: 908 Registered: 8-2005 |
Is the something added a charge? | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1768 Registered: 11-2003 |
I'm back, lol Is the something added a charge? No. When you receive a bill or invoice (at least it works that way both in Norway and Ireland), you will get a piece of paper stating what you owe. Then either at the bottom of that paper or sometimes on a separate 'item', is something that is meant to help you pay the bill correctly. What am I talking about? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 10390 Registered: 4-2010 |
A blank check? | ||
| Sundowner (Sundowner)
New member Username: Sundowner Post Number: 656 Registered: 6-2003 |
Is the relevant information where and how to pay the road tax? Does Sam request a proof that Jack paid the tax? Did Jack have to pay Norwegian road tax at all? Does he have a car registered in Norway? Did he pay the tax? Does he want to pay it? Relevant that Poland is a member of the EU, while Norway is not? Is there any special way how the road tax has to be paid in Norway? (other than transfering money from one bank account to another one) Does it have to be paid in cash in a post office? (like it was the usual way in East Germany until 1992) Any special payment system or payment terminals (Qiwi) relevant? Or payment through mobile phone? (a Norwegian mobile phone, of course) Would Jack have to travel to Norway in order to pay the tax? but they would not let him enter because he did not pay the tax? | ||
| Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo)
New member Username: Jenburdoo Post Number: 4374 Registered: 5-2003 |
Another recap, please? If Sam lived in Jack's country, would she be familiar enough with his situation to not ask for this particular verification? Would she need to? Does Sam have a scrund? Once the situation is explained to Sam's satisfaction, would she be able to do what Jack wants without requiring the information? By getting some other information? Anything to do with the fact that Eve is doing this for Jack? Is he in the room? Are they actively passing information back and forth, with Eve as a go between? If Jack could speak directly with Sam, would the problem arise at all? | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1772 Registered: 11-2003 |
Balin (Balin) A blank check? No Sundowner (Sundowner) Is the relevant information where and how to pay the road tax? Where is not relevant, but the information is related to how Does Sam request a proof that Jack paid the tax? Yes, precisely! Did Jack have to pay Norwegian road tax at all? He does, as he is a Norwegian citizen and the car registered in Norway (and used by others at the moment, I think) Does he have a car registered in Norway? See above Did he pay the tax? No Does he want to pay it? Yes Relevant that Poland is a member of the EU, while Norway is not? Nope Is there any special way how the road tax has to be paid in Norway? (other than transfering money from one bank account to another one) No Does it have to be paid in cash in a post office? (like it was the usual way in East Germany until 1992) It can be paid in the post office or bank in cash, cheque or card Any special payment system or payment terminals (Qiwi) relevant? The system for paying this tax does not differ from paying any other bills in Norway at the time. Or payment through mobile phone? (a Norwegian mobile phone, of course) Irr Would Jack have to travel to Norway in order to pay the tax? No but they would not let him enter because he did not pay the tax? so no Jenburdoo (Jenburdoo) Another recap, please? {Recap to follow soon} If Sam lived in Jack's country, would she be familiar enough with his situation to not ask for this particular verification? Difficult one to answer, because if she had lived in the same country as Jack, she would not be the one Eve was talking to. And if she at some stage in her life previous to this had been living there or in any other country, she would have understood why it was impossible for Jack to do what she wanted. Would she need to? If they had been in the same country, either Norway or Poland, there would have been no problem at all. Does Sam have a scrund?Yes, you can say that Once the situation is explained to Sam's satisfaction, would she be able to do what Jack wants without requiring the information? No, that was the stupidity of it. She only got argumentative. By getting some other information? That is the part Eve is trying to sort out Anything to do with the fact that Eve is doing this for Jack? Not really Is he in the room? Yes Are they actively passing information back and forth, with Eve as a go between? Yes If Jack could speak directly with Sam, would the problem arise at all? It would definitely still be there. | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1773 Registered: 11-2003 |
Recap Jack, who's a Norwegian citizen living in Poland at the time of this, has a car registered in Norway and so he needs to pay the road tax for that car. The documents related to his road tax are sent to his address in Norway and then forwarded to him in Poland. He wants to pay of course, and is looking for a way to do so. That is the reason why he contacts Eve. Either at the bottom of the letter or as a separate piece of paper, is some vital information he needs to pay the bill (I might have to reveal this part soon if no one guesses it). It is this part of the documentation that is the problem for them. But Sam is unable to understand WHY there is a problem at all. HINTS: Sundowner asked if Jack had to travel to Norway in order to pay, to which the answer is No. However, if he had gone to Norway, he could have paid without any problems. Also, to clear up something that might be a bit confusing. Upon receipt of payment of the road tax, the road tax office send out a new letter, containing a sticker. This sticker is to be placed on the rear registration plate, and every year the sticker has a different colour. After a certain date, the police can confiscate your car if you have the wrong colour sticker. Because of the delay in getting the documents regarding the road tax, Jack only got the letter from the road tax office either very close to the payment date or shortly after, and within a short amount of time, they would have issued a new bill with a penalising fee on top. This is what Jack tries to avoid. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 10757 Registered: 4-2010 |
The "fax item" - the sticker itself? An old sticker? | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1776 Registered: 11-2003 |
The "fax item" - the sticker itself? An old sticker? No to both. HINT: When you go in to a bank or post office to pay a bill in person, what do you take with you out of there after the transaction is finished? | ||
| Martinfg (Martinfg)
New member Username: Martinfg Post Number: 927 Registered: 8-2005 |
Receipt? | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1778 Registered: 11-2003 |
Receipt? Spot on. This is what Sam wants Jack to fax to her. But why is he unable to do so? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 10799 Registered: 4-2010 |
Does the receipt need to be signed? Does it have a date on it? | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1780 Registered: 11-2003 |
Does the receipt need to be signed? Signed or stamped to verify the bill had been paid Does it have a date on it? Nope | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 10801 Registered: 4-2010 |
Obviously, one cannot fax a stamped receipt, as the actual stamp would be "faxed" onto the paper. Relevant? Did Sam want Jack to fax the stamp as well? | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1781 Registered: 11-2003 |
Obviously, one cannot fax a stamped receipt, as the actual stamp would be "faxed" onto the paper. Relevant? There's nothing relevant about the stamp. Nowadays it would most likely be sent trough a machine to get a digital "stamp", or the cashier will have a self-inking stamp available to verify payment (probably also signing or initial it). I guess both will also contain information that allows one to track down a payment if it's not received in time. Did Sam want Jack to fax the stamp as well? All Sam wants of Jack is that he pays the bill, using the 'item' that was in the letter, then when that is done, fax her a cioy of the receipt as verification of payment. Remember, Jack has still not paid the road tax. There is a very simple reason WHY he is unable to follow her instructions. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 10813 Registered: 4-2010 |
Does he not get the receipt until he pays the road tax? | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1785 Registered: 11-2003 |
Does he not get the receipt until he pays the road tax? True. The receipt comes as a result of paying the bill. Since this part seems to cause a bit of confusion, I'll better explain it. When you receive a bill in Norway, you also receive a form called a giro. It's like a bank payment slip, and contains all the relevant information that is necessary for the money to get to the right bank account; like the recipient's company name and address, bank account number, etc. So when you take that slip with you to the bank or post office, you will get a receipt (in Ireland it's a stub portion of the slip) that is either digitially/electronically printed with payment information, or manually stamped and signed by the cashier to verify you have paid the bill. Sam wants Jack to fax her the receipt part of that slip, when he has paid his road tax. So what could the problem be? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 10850 Registered: 4-2010 |
Is the receipt specific to the bank? | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1786 Registered: 11-2003 |
Is the receipt specific to the bank? If you mean he has to go in to one spesific bank, then No. But... | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 10879 Registered: 4-2010 |
Do Sam and Jack use the same bank? If not, would the receipt then not work at any other bank? My apologies - I'm still not sure how all this works, nor how it connects to the puzzle. But I'm sure that last bit is what we need to figure out. | ||
| Sundowner (Sundowner)
New member Username: Sundowner Post Number: 658 Registered: 6-2003 |
Does it have to be a receipt from a Norwegian bank? Did banks in Poland refuse to stamp a receipt in Norwegian? Would the bank in Poland issue a receipt in Polish? which would be useless to the Norwegian tax office? ("Language is the reason of all these misunderstandings" -- King Oskar II) or do Polish banks not issue receipts at all? IBAN/Swift code relevant? Does Jack need the tax office's Swift code to send money from Poland, but on the payment slip is only the Norwegian account number printed? | ||
| Eli (Eli)
New member Username: Eli Post Number: 1789 Registered: 11-2003 |
Balin (Balin) Do Sam and Jack use the same bank? Irr If not, would the receipt then not work at any other bank? It would - In Norway you can pay in any bank or post office using the standard yellow giro/slip My apologies - I'm still not sure how all this works, nor how it connects to the puzzle. But I'm sure that last bit is what we need to figure out. See below, it will all be revealed. Sundowner (Sundowner) Does it have to be a receipt from a Norwegian bank? Well, the road tax office wouldn't care, but it's on the right track Did banks in Poland refuse to stamp a receipt in Norwegian? Refuse is not the correct word Would the bank in Poland issue a receipt in Polish? Yes, most likely which would be useless to the Norwegian tax office? ("Language is the reason of all these misunderstandings" -- King Oskar II) But this is not the reason or do Polish banks not issue receipts at all? I assume they do as well. IBAN/Swift code relevant? Very much so Does Jack need the tax office's Swift code to send money from Poland, but on the payment slip is only the Norwegian account number printed? Yes!! This is so close that here comes the ************SPOILER*************** Eve (Evelyn), an ex-colleague of mine, told me this story from when she was posted in Warsaw, Poland. A Norwegian guy came in asking for advice on how to pay the road tax. He had received the normal letter, informing it was due, with the bank payment slip attached. As I earlier said, it was sent to the address he was registered with in Norway - as is usual, and it was then forwarded to him in Poland as he was living there temporarily. The bank payment slip contains information about sender, receiver and amount paid in. There is a bank payment slip in Ireland as well, but it looks very different to the Norwegian one. Also, the currency is different of course. Eve tried to help Jack by calling the authorities in Norway. She even suggested that Jack could pay to them (since it was an official government body) and she could then transfer the money to wherever it needed going - but of course she needed the IBAN and Swift codes. However, Sam was adamant that all Jack needed to do was to go to a bank and pay the bill and then fax the receipt. Eve tried to say that they were in Poland and the answer was something like 'I understand that. What is the problem?' And when she was told that there was no way the Polish banks would accept the Norwegian giro, and even less would know what to do with it or what was printed on it, Sam worked herself up and told them that was rubbish, because 'it was a bank giro, after all'. Thanks all for patiently playing. I never anticipated it would run for so long, but it was fun, lol | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 10944 Registered: 4-2010 |
Thanks for the explanation - I think I'm starting to get it now. And great puzzle! |
