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Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Friday, March 18, 2011 - 5:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

It claimed him on the mountain.
It claimed him by the river.
It claimed him by the hand of the King.
The King claimed the crown when It failed.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, March 18, 2011 - 5:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are all Its the same thing? Are all Hims the same thing?

Him - H? A? M?

Is It an object? A person? A living thing? Something tabngible?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Friday, March 18, 2011 - 5:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are all Its the same thing? Yes/Yes/No Are all Hims the same thing? No

Him - H? A? M? Yes to all three.

Is It an object? Yes A person? No A living thing? DOYD of 'living' Something tabngible? Yes
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, March 18, 2011 - 5:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is It an animal? A plant?

Are any of the Its the same? The Hims? If so, which ones?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Friday, March 18, 2011 - 5:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is It an animal? A plant? Neither

Are any of the Its the same? Yes The Hims? No If so, which ones? It 1 and 2 are identical. You haven't asked about the Kings yet...?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, March 18, 2011 - 6:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the Kings the same?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Friday, March 18, 2011 - 6:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the Kings the same? No, they are not! *grin*
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, March 18, 2011 - 6:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are either of the Kings H? A? M? Objects? Chess pieces?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Friday, March 18, 2011 - 6:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are either of the Kings H? A? M? King #1, Yesish/yes/yes, King #2, yes/yes/yes, no to rest Objects? Chess pieces?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Friday, March 18, 2011 - 6:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh, and the "It" that failed is the same It as 1 and 2, sorry. Only the third mention of It is a different It.
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Friday, March 18, 2011 - 6:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is King #1 real? fictional? mythical?
Is King #2 real? fictional? mythical?

Is "it" #1,2,4 bigger than a finger? a hand? a loaf of bread? a table? a car? a house?
Is "it" #3 bigger than a finger? a hand? a loaf of bread? a table? a car? a house?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Friday, March 18, 2011 - 6:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is King #1 real? fictional? this mythical?
Is King #2 real? fictional? this mythical?

Is "it" #1,2,4 bigger than a finger? a hand? a loaf of bread? a table? a car? a house? no to all
Is "it" #3 bigger than a finger? a hand? a loaf of bread? a table? a car? a house? possibly between car and house, or bigger than a house
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Friday, March 18, 2011 - 6:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this FYOI? FSEI? From a book? film? game?

Is "it" #1,2,4 smaller than a finger?
[LTPF list of materials] for both "it"s, please?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Friday, March 18, 2011 - 6:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this FYOI? FSEI? this From a book? this film? some was adapted into this later, but not all game? and I think there have been games based on the books and films

Is "it" #1,2,4 smaller than a finger? it is
[LTPF list of materials] for both "it"s, please?

It 1/2/4 - gold, IIRC
It 3 - presumably primarily wood, though metal may have been involved and cloth must have been, too, as well as ropes


Hint: "It claimed him by the hand of the King" may mislead. That "him" is a King, too, and he technically had a hand in his own demise through idiocy. He was more immediately responsible for his own death than the other King was, though the other King initiated it.
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Friday, March 18, 2011 - 6:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is "it" #1,2,4 a ring?
LOTR relevant?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Friday, March 18, 2011 - 6:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is "it" #1,2,4 a ring? It is. In fact...
LOTR relevant? VERY relevant! :-D
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, March 18, 2011 - 6:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So is this just the basic plot of LOTR? First Sauron, then Isildur...not sure about the third line, but the last one is Aragorn?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Friday, March 18, 2011 - 7:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So is this just the basic plot of LOTR? Not *quite*. First Sauron, No, that was my fault...and since when is Sauron human? The first two were both Isildur. *BLOOPER* on my part. The One Ring claimed mastery of Isildur on Orodruin, It drew his enemies to him by the Gladden Fields, claiming his life. then Isildur Yes....not sure about the third line, but the last one is Aragorn? It is.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, March 18, 2011 - 7:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the third line's the mystery, eh?

Is the "it" in L3 a structure? A building? A bridge?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Friday, March 18, 2011 - 7:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the third line's the mystery, eh? it would seem so.

Is the "it" in L3 a structure? this is closest, for svv of "structure". It's something that was built, but not a building or bridge. A building? A bridge?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, March 18, 2011 - 7:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a single "built-thing"? A group of things? A wall? A city?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Friday, March 18, 2011 - 7:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a single "built-thing"? there may have been more than one, but only one is relevant A group of things? possibly, no to rest though A wall? A city?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, March 18, 2011 - 7:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it something portable? From FOTR? TTT? ROTK?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Friday, March 18, 2011 - 7:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it something portable? well, it moves, anyway From FOTR? TTT? ROTK? none of these, that's why I said "yesish" to LOTR. There is *mention* of this "him" during ROTK, but he isn't extant alongside Aragorn. He's one of his ancestors, however; an important one.
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Friday, March 18, 2011 - 7:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hint: Try the Appendices, Balin. And by RotK, I mean the book, not necessarily the film.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, March 20, 2011 - 6:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm not sure where my copy is though...

Is he mentioned in the timeline (App. B, IIRC)?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Sunday, March 20, 2011 - 9:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm not sure where my copy is though...o noez! were it went?!

Is he mentioned in the timeline (App. B, IIRC)? Yes, in the twentieth century of the Third Age.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, April 01, 2011 - 7:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I will e-mail my sister - she knows this better than I. And she has access to the book.
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Friday, April 01, 2011 - 9:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Fair enough.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, April 03, 2011 - 5:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Here's the e-mail my sister sent me, quoted verbatim (I just left out the closing and signature):

Ok here's what I got.

20th century = 1900-1999 right? Third age. Frame of reference: the third age begins with Sauron going poof after his ring gets cut off. Bilbo isn't born until 2890, Aragorn until 2931. Just in case you were wondering.

I'm confused by exactly what you know and don't know and it is making my search more difficult. As to the third line, is the king refered to deffinatly Isildur or could it refer to the Witch-king (Nazgul)? In 2002 Minas Ithil was overtaken after being besieged by the Nazgul in 200 and gets renamed Minas Morgul. This could have been achomplished by use of trebuches, which are made of wood, metal and rope. Just a thought. Next time mom sends you stuff, I'll try to throw in a copy of LOTR; I think we might have two.

Let me know what you think.

P.S.

I like the title: The king is dead, long live the king.
Where have I heard that said before?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Sunday, April 03, 2011 - 7:22 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"The king is dead, long live the king" is a typically royal thing to say...particularly in the UK, where the throne is never without a monarch (even if the successor is not crowned). Oh, and don't get me started on the whole thing with Cromwell, because that sucked. Ahem. Anyway...

RECAP, with hints/bits solved:

The Ring claimed Isildur on the mountain.
It claimed Isildur by the river. (Not the Ring)
It claimed the King (not Isildur) because it was fated.
Aragorn claimed the crown when the One Ring failed.

You're pretty close to done here, Balin.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, April 03, 2011 - 2:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are either of the remaining "its" people?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Sunday, April 03, 2011 - 3:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are either of the remaining "its" people?
They aren't.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, April 03, 2011 - 5:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is either "it" a tangible object? Intangible thing? Greed?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Monday, April 04, 2011 - 2:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is either "it" a tangible object? Intangible thing? Greed?
The first one is tangible, the second one is intangible.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, April 04, 2011 - 1:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The King - of Gondor?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Monday, April 04, 2011 - 4:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The King - of Gondor? No, not Gondor. Not for lack of trying, though. After all, he did marry the daughter of a King of Gondor.
Docd (Docd)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 06, 2011 - 9:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Line 3-when King Arvedui of the North Kingdom was ship-wrecked in the Icebay of Forochel?
("It" being the ship on which Arvedui was ill-advised to sail)

Line 2- is "it" the orc's arrow which slew (love that word) Isildur?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 06, 2011 - 3:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Line 3-when King Arvedui of the North Kingdom was ship-wrecked in the Icebay of Forochel?
("It" being the ship on which Arvedui was ill-advised to sail)

Line 2- is "it" the orc's arrow which slew (love that word) Isildur?

Well done!!

***SPOILER***

It (The One Ring) claimed him (Isildur) on the mountain.
It (The orc arrow) claimed him (Isildur) by the river.
It (The ill-advised ship) claimed him (Arvedui Last-King) by the hand of the King.
The King (Aragorn Elessar) claimed the crown when It (The One Ring) failed.

A brief...ish background: Aragorn, later King Elessar, "the Elf-stone", wasn't just a scruffy Ranger to begin with, no matter how the films depict him. He (and the Rangers) had a long, noble and royal lineage. Isildur, son of Elendil, was his forefather and a direct descendant of Elros, Elrond Peredhel's twin brother. Isildur and his elder sons perished at the hands of orcs, after Isildur claimed the One Ring of Sauron during the War of the Last Alliance of Elves and Men.

Isildur was followed as King of Arnor by his son Valandil. (This was Gondor's northern neighbour; Gondor was ruled by the descendants of Isildur's brother Anarion.) The Kings of Arnor did fairly well, until one of them had three sons and decided to split Arnor in three pieces. Arthedain, as the largest bit was then called, later fell under attacks by the Witch-King who had conquered or eliminated the other realms of Arnor, Cardolan and Rhudaur. Arvedui was the last King of Arthedain. He married Firiel, daughter of King Ondoher of Gondor.

Unfortunately, Arvedui lived up to his name "last king" in a bad way, not a good one. His people hoped his political union with Gondor would reunite the two realms. Gondor's Steward said no way; we don't want you or YOUR son ruling us, even though Firiel's brothers had died. So the line of Kings soon went extinct in Gondor...and Arvedui perished in the North, in the Bay of Farochel, where he'd been warned not to sail.

This left his son and heir Aranarth alone to rule, but Arnor had been decimated...there was no "kingdom" left as such. So he took the name Chieftain of the Dunedain, and Aragorn (second of that name) was sixteenth in right line after him, finally realizing the dream of reuniting the long-sundered realms.

The End =)
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, April 07, 2011 - 12:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Nice puzzle, Kaylee!

And thanks, Docd, for hopping in on this one. Without my LOTR copy handy, I never would have gotten Arvedui (though I should have gotten the orc arrow).

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