| Author | Message | ||
| Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
New member Username: Dukhsan Post Number: 9 Registered: 3-2011 |
Last puzzle until the other two have been solved! I'm on a roll tonight. He destroyed his friends' possessions so that they might retain them. Why? What happened? | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 12679 Registered: 4-2010 |
He - H? A? M? He = his? Friends - H? A? M? Friends = they? Possessions: objects? Tangible? People? Animals? Possessions = them? Number of friends relevant? If so, [LTPF list of integers]? Number of possessions relevant? If so, [LTPF list of integers]? Were the possessions owned by all the friends as a group? Or were some owned by one friend, some by another, etc? | ||
| Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
New member Username: Dukhsan Post Number: 12 Registered: 3-2011 |
He - H? A? M? Adult man. He = his? Yes, same man. Friends - H? A? M? Adult men. Friends = they? Yes, same men. Possessions: objects? Tangible? People? Animals? Possessions = them? Tangible objects, "them" does refer back to these items. Number of friends relevant? No. If so, [LTPF list of integers]? Number of possessions relevant? No. If so, [LTPF list of integers]? Were the possessions owned by all the friends as a group? No. Or were some owned by one friend, some by another, etc? Yes. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 12682 Registered: 4-2010 |
Were the possessions physically destroyed? Smashed? Burned? Melted? | ||
| Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
New member Username: Dukhsan Post Number: 14 Registered: 3-2011 |
Were the possessions physically destroyed? Smashed? Burned? Melted? No to all, but the first one is closer to no-ish. | ||
| Sundowner (Sundowner)
New member Username: Sundowner Post Number: 695 Registered: 6-2003 |
Were the possessions pieces of artwork? cars? ships? real estate property? company shares? Did he make them worthless? without actually physically destroying them? Would the friends have lost their possessions otherwise? would they have gone to someone else? would they have disappeared? ceased to exist physically? Would they have been confiscated? stolen? taxed? would the friends have been forced to sell them? | ||
| Shez (Shez)
New member Username: Shez Post Number: 355 Registered: 2-2011 |
is this a true story? FYOI? FSEI? did this happen in a game? | ||
| Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
New member Username: Dukhsan Post Number: 16 Registered: 3-2011 |
Were the possessions pieces of artwork? cars? ships? real estate property? company shares? None of these. Did he make them worthless? No. without actually physically destroying them? Physically is a strange word to use. They were destroyed. Would the friends have lost their possessions otherwise? Probably. Would they have gone to someone else? Yes. would they have disappeared? No. ceased to exist physically? No. You can't create or destroy matter. :P Would they have been confiscated? stolen? taxed? Confiscated. would the friends have been forced to sell them? No. This is based on a true story. It did not happen in any game. | ||
| Sundowner (Sundowner)
New member Username: Sundowner Post Number: 701 Registered: 6-2003 |
Were these items smuggled? stolen? Was it illegal to have them? Were the items manmade? tangible? alive? solid? liquid? Relevant how the friends came to possess these items? did they buy them? make them? find them? | ||
| Shez (Shez)
New member Username: Shez Post Number: 357 Registered: 2-2011 |
were the possesions broken down in some way so that they lost their current form, which would have been a reason to confiscate them? gold? | ||
| Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
New member Username: Dukhsan Post Number: 19 Registered: 3-2011 |
Were these items smuggled? No. stolen? No. Was it illegal to have them? No. Were the items manmade? tangible? alive? solid? liquid? Tangible solids, arguably manmade. Relevant how the friends came to possess these items? Probably. did they buy them? make them? find them? None of these. were the possesions broken down in some way so that they lost their current form, which would have been a reason to confiscate them? Yes. gold? Yes. Nice. | ||
| Shez (Shez)
New member Username: Shez Post Number: 358 Registered: 2-2011 |
yay! teeth? jewellery? gold cups? religious artefacts? | ||
| Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
New member Username: Dukhsan Post Number: 20 Registered: 3-2011 |
yay! WOOHOO! teeth? jewellery? gold cups? religious artefacts? None of these. | ||
| Shez (Shez)
New member Username: Shez Post Number: 359 Registered: 2-2011 |
ingots? rands? PCBs? statues? trophies? dubloons? pieces of eight? | ||
| Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
New member Username: Dukhsan Post Number: 21 Registered: 3-2011 |
ingots? No. rands? No. PCBs? Item "PCB" cannot be found. Please try again. statues? No. trophies? Sort of. dubloons? Arr, ye be stealin' me booty! No. pieces of eight? No. | ||
| Shez (Shez)
New member Username: Shez Post Number: 362 Registered: 2-2011 |
gold medals? | ||
| Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
New member Username: Dukhsan Post Number: 24 Registered: 3-2011 |
gold medals? Yes. | ||
| Shez (Shez)
New member Username: Shez Post Number: 363 Registered: 2-2011 |
Olympic gold medals? | ||
| Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
New member Username: Dukhsan Post Number: 25 Registered: 3-2011 |
Olympic gold medals? No. | ||
| Shez (Shez)
New member Username: Shez Post Number: 366 Registered: 2-2011 |
were these miltary medals? | ||
| Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
New member Username: Dukhsan Post Number: 33 Registered: 3-2011 |
were these military medals? No. | ||
| Shez (Shez)
New member Username: Shez Post Number: 372 Registered: 2-2011 |
were they medals awarded for sporting achievement? were they melted down to conceal their origin? or just the fact that they were made of gold? were they being smuggled across a border? concealed from the police? other authority figure? | ||
| Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
New member Username: Dukhsan Post Number: 44 Registered: 3-2011 |
were they medals awarded for sporting achievement? No. were they melted down to conceal their origin? Probably. They may have held symbolic value. or just the fact that they were made of gold? This is important too. were they being smuggled across a border? No. concealed from the police? Maybe. other authority figure? I'm not sure if these figures would count as police or other authority. Given the circumstances, I'd say the latter. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 12709 Registered: 4-2010 |
Were they concealed from criminals? By criminals? | ||
| Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
New member Username: Dukhsan Post Number: 47 Registered: 3-2011 |
Were they concealed from criminals? No-ish. By criminals? No. Re-checking some facts allows me to say that the possessions were contraband according to the organization that sought to confiscate them. So the symbolic value of the possession is indeed very important. | ||
| Shez (Shez)
New member Username: Shez Post Number: 381 Registered: 2-2011 |
were the authority figures-ish soldiers? did this take place in wartime? is the organisation that would confiscate them the government? one of the armed forces? were the medals awarded by an underground organisation? or something banned or illegal? were the medals a symbol of belonging to this body? a poliotical body or resistance movement? | ||
| Vesica (Vesica)
New member Username: Vesica Post Number: 381 Registered: 8-2001 |
Hmm...his destroying of the (gold) possessions... Did he need to destroy them to hide what they were? Or to transform them into some specific other thing? Did the medals signify something specific about the persons bearing them? | ||
| Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
New member Username: Dukhsan Post Number: 49 Registered: 3-2011 |
were the authority figures-ish soldiers? Soldiers may have been the ones who physically confiscated the item, but if so they'd have orders. did this take place in wartime? Yes. is the organisation that would confiscate them the government? Yes. one of the armed forces? The government may use its armed forces to do so. were the medals awarded by an underground organisation? or something banned or illegal? Neither. were the medals a symbol of belonging to this body? To a body, yes. a poliotical body or resistance movement? Neither. Did he need to destroy them to hide what they were? Yes. Or to transform them into some specific other thing? An unrecognizable thing, yes. Did the medals signify something specific about the persons bearing them? Yes. | ||
| Vesica (Vesica)
New member Username: Vesica Post Number: 399 Registered: 8-2001 |
Is it relevant which war? Belonging to a body: As in a group? Racial group? Religious group? Group with a certain belief? Did the objects retain their value for the friends even after they'd been melted down? Were the friends the original owners of these things? | ||
| Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
New member Username: Dukhsan Post Number: 52 Registered: 3-2011 |
Is it relevant which war? Yes. Belonging to a body: As in a group? This is the closest to correct. Racial group? Religious group? Group with a certain belief? None of these three. Did the objects retain their value for the friends even after they'd been melted down? Eventually, yes. They were not melted down, though. Were the friends the original owners of these things? Yes. | ||
| Redwine (Redwine)
New member Username: Redwine Post Number: 713 Registered: 1-2011 |
Was the group made illegal by the government? Was it dangerous to belong to the group? Did the orders to confiscate concern all possessions of the group? Or only the medals? Time and location relevant? If so, please the [LTPF list of continents] and [LTPF list of decades]. | ||
| Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
New member Username: Dukhsan Post Number: 54 Registered: 3-2011 |
Was the group made illegal by the government? In a way, yes. Was it dangerous to belong to the group? Possibly, if the medals were found. Did the orders to confiscate concern all possessions of the group? Or only the medals? Likely just the latter, and it may have been a 'seize on sight' thing, depending on who knows they have the medals. Time and location relevant? If so, please the [LTPF list of continents] and [LTPF list of decades]. Europe in the 1940s. | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 12724 Registered: 4-2010 |
So WWII, then? Were the Nazis the ones who made the medals illegal? Were they wartime medals? | ||
| Sundowner (Sundowner)
New member Username: Sundowner Post Number: 705 Registered: 6-2003 |
Were they freemasons? | ||
| Vesica (Vesica)
New member Username: Vesica Post Number: 405 Registered: 8-2001 |
I'm confused about the melted/not melted thing... My Q: Did the objects retain their value for the friends even after they'd been melted down? Eventually, yes. They were not melted down, though. Earlier in the thread: were they melted down to conceal their origin? Probably. They may have held symbolic value. So they were not melted down? But they were altered? After alteration, did they still appear as distinct objects? Of the same number? For example, if there were 3 whatevers, were they altered into three something elses? After alteration, were they still recognizable as gold? Were the originals PURE gold? Only gold? Or made of gold and other stuff? Okay, belonging to a body or group, but not one based on race, religion or belief…Hmm… Do the individuals know they are part of this…group..thing? Would they identify themselves as such? Or would those doing the confiscating identify them as "X" but the individuals themselves would not? Do they know that the objects would identify them as such? | ||
| Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
New member Username: Dukhsan Post Number: 56 Registered: 3-2011 |
So WWII, then? Yes. Were the Nazis the ones who made the medals illegal? Nazi Germany prohibited its people from accepting the medals. Were they wartime medals? No. Were they freemasons? No. Vesica: My mistake - I must have not noticed. Here's a hint: I am a chemistry major. The correct errata is that they were destroyed to the point of being unrecognizable but were not melted. They were not distinct objects after alteration, and there was one result from any number of medals. They were not recognizable as gold, and were pure gold or very close to it initially. They know they belong to a group, would identify themselves as such, and the objects would identify them as such. | ||
| Vesica (Vesica)
New member Username: Vesica Post Number: 423 Registered: 8-2001 |
Dukhsan - Ah! Thank you. I did have the advantage reading the Qs & As all in one fell swoop. I'm certainly not a chemistry major, but I'm also not a chemistry idiot so... Pure (or nearly pure) gold is very malleable, yes? And could be "transformed" by hand? With some basic tools? Did he mix something with the gold? Knowing he could later extract/purify/insert knowledgable-sounding chem term here the gold? The retaining of them - so they could retain the gold? For later use as currency? For some other purpose? I have to think some more about this new Nazi twist...I almost wish I could just invoke [LTPF list of "Stuff the Nazis Didn't Like"] but we'd be here all week with that list. | ||
| Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
New member Username: Dukhsan Post Number: 58 Registered: 3-2011 |
Sure thing. I'm unaware how I managed to contradict myself there. Pure (or nearly pure) gold is very malleable, yes? And could be "transformed" by hand? It is fairly malleable, but this is irrelevant. With some basic tools? Again, irrelevant. Did he mix something with the gold? Yes. Knowing he could later extract/purify/insert knowledgable-sounding chem term here the gold? Yes. You're on the right track. The retaining of them - so they could retain the gold? Yes. For later use as currency? Yes. For some other purpose? Yes. | ||
| Sundowner (Sundowner)
New member Username: Sundowner Post Number: 707 Registered: 6-2003 |
Were these medals Nobel Prize medals? The German government forbid from 1936 on Germans to accept a Nobel Prize .. is this relevant? (but how could they have the medals then, if they were forced to refuse the prize) Were there occasions where a German publicly rejected the prize but, nevertheless, secretly received the medal? | ||
| Shez (Shez)
New member Username: Shez Post Number: 401 Registered: 2-2011 |
or maybe they had already received the prize before the 1936 edict? | ||
| Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
New member Username: Dukhsan Post Number: 59 Registered: 3-2011 |
Were these medals Nobel Prize medals? Yes! The German government forbid from 1936 on Germans to accept a Nobel Prize .. is this relevant? Completely. (but how could they have the medals then, if they were forced to refuse the prize) Were there occasions where a German publicly rejected the prize but, nevertheless, secretly received the medal? Not to my knowledge. or maybe they had already received the prize before the 1936 edict? Yes. All that remains is to figure out how the medals were destroyed. | ||
| Vesica (Vesica)
New member Username: Vesica Post Number: 437 Registered: 8-2001 |
After the destruction, would it be possible to restore the medals to their original shape? Was another substance placed over the individual medals, forming one large mass of whatever? Did he make the medals look like something innocuous? Like a rock? Chunk of brick? Material(s) added: Another pure element? Clay? Ceramics of some sort (is this different than clay?)? Another metal? Paint? | ||
| Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
New member Username: Dukhsan Post Number: 60 Registered: 3-2011 |
After the destruction, would it be possible to restore the medals to their original shape? Yes. Was another substance placed over the individual medals, forming one large mass of whatever? Arguably yes, but probably not in the way you're thinking. The medals were placed in something. Did he make the medals look like something innocuous? Yes. Like a rock? Chunk of brick? Neither. Material(s) added: Another pure element? Clay? Ceramics of some sort (is this different than clay?)? Another metal? Paint? None of these. | ||
| Vesica (Vesica)
New member Username: Vesica Post Number: 440 Registered: 8-2001 |
When you say “destroyed” in the puzzle statement… Destroyed the metal part of the medals? Destroyed the medals as a whole? Perhaps by detaching the medal from the ribbon? Placed in something…Something: Wood? Metal? Vegetable? Organic? An animal? Person? Fabric? Stone? Plastic (or what we would call plastic today)? Did the Nazis find the object? But not realize what it concealed? Not investigate very closely? (For some reason I find myself thinking of hiding something in a slop bucket…eww) | ||
| Shez (Shez)
New member Username: Shez Post Number: 408 Registered: 2-2011 |
plaster of Paris? | ||
| Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
New member Username: Dukhsan Post Number: 62 Registered: 3-2011 |
Destroyed the metal part of the medals? Yes. Destroyed the medals as a whole? Perhaps by detaching the medal from the ribbon? Just the metal. Placed in something…Something: Wood? Metal? Vegetable? Organic? An animal? Person? Fabric? Stone? Plastic (or what we would call plastic today)? None of these. Did the Nazis find the object? Yes. But not realize what it concealed? Yes. Not investigate very closely? Yes. (For some reason I find myself thinking of hiding something in a slop bucket…eww) Nope. plaster of Paris? Nothing to do with this. | ||
| Shez (Shez)
New member Username: Shez Post Number: 413 Registered: 2-2011 |
were the medals just coated in something? or completely immersed in a foreign object? or was a chemical reaction involved? | ||
| Vesica (Vesica)
New member Username: Vesica Post Number: 479 Registered: 8-2001 |
Complete immersed in a liquid? A goo? In food? Going a little crazy trying to figure this one out! Crazy in a good way... Did he put them in a barell of oil? Into the soles of shoes? Sewn into the lining of suitcases? Tossed them into the gas tank of a vehicle? Baked into a cake? Were the concealed on someone's person? | ||
| Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
New member Username: Dukhsan Post Number: 63 Registered: 3-2011 |
were the medals just coated in something? No. or completely immersed in a foreign object? See the next answer. or was a chemical reaction involved? Yes. Almost got it. Vesica: I'm going to direct you to the above answer. Of your questions, they were immersed in a liquid. | ||
| Shez (Shez)
New member Username: Shez Post Number: 434 Registered: 2-2011 |
was it an acid? or another metal in liquid form? | ||
| Vesica (Vesica)
New member Username: Vesica Post Number: 495 Registered: 8-2001 |
Were they immersed in something toxic to humans? Just gross? | ||
| Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
New member Username: Dukhsan Post Number: 64 Registered: 3-2011 |
was it an acid? Yes. or another metal in liquid form? No. Clever idea, though. Were they immersed in something toxic to humans? Yes. Just gross? No. This is close enough for it to be spoiled. (I won't wait for people to guess the type of acid.) **************SPOILER*************** Germany's invasion of Denmark during World War II prompted a Hungarian chemist to dissolve two German physicists' Nobel prize metals (they won these prior to the war and Germany had banned its citizens from accepting/retaining them), which are solid gold, in aqua regia - a mixture of nitric and hydrochloric acids. The resulting solution of a compound known as chloroauric acid looks like a common laboratory chemical, and was placed on the shelf as such. The Nazis ignored it, it was made back into metallic gold after the war, and prize medals were recoined from it. Well done! After my puzzles are moved out of the 'current' thread, I'll post a few more. | ||
| Shez (Shez)
New member Username: Shez Post Number: 439 Registered: 2-2011 |
wow! great story | ||
| Balin (Balin)
New member Username: Balin Post Number: 12819 Registered: 4-2010 |
Good one! I think there's another puzzle about aqua regia somewhere in the solved section. By the way, you don't need to wait for the puzzles to be moved in order to post new ones - they just need to have been solved. |
