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Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 732
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Posted on Thursday, March 31, 2011 - 9:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

He started the epidemics and saved thousands of lives.
Potato (Potato)
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Post Number: 505
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Posted on Thursday, March 31, 2011 - 9:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

True story? FYOI? FSEI?

Time and place relevant? [Insert LTPF list of countries, centuries and decades]

He = a scientist?

Did he start the epidemics by by setting free bacteria/viruses? Was it an accident? While he was experimenting? Or did he do it on purpose?

Did he start only one epidemy? Or several? If the latter is the case, were they all the same disease or different types thereof? Or completely different diseases?

Using the singular form from now on, just for the sake of convenience:

Before it became an epidemy, was it a moderately spread disease? Was he trying to find a cure?

Or was he the first person to have a certain disease that couldn't be cured and he passed it on to other people?

Drug resistance relevant?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 734
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Posted on Thursday, March 31, 2011 - 10:38 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Potato:
True story? this FYOI? FSEI?

Time and place relevant? [Insert LTPF list of countries, centuries and decades] Poland, during World War II, location is not essential to the puzzle

He = a scientist? yesish

Did he start the epidemics by by setting free bacteria/viruses? Was it an accident? While he was experimenting? Or did he do it on purpose? this, no to the rest

Did he start only one epidemy? difficult to say, assume one Or several? If the latter is the case, were they all the same disease or different types thereof? Or completely different diseases? completely different diseases are somehow relevant, but be careful

Using the singular form from now on, just for the sake of convenience:

Before it became an epidemy, was it a moderately spread disease? Was he trying to find a cure? no to both

Or was he the first person to have a certain disease that couldn't be cured and he passed it on to other people? no

Drug resistance relevant? no
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Thursday, March 31, 2011 - 11:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Epidemics = infectuous disease? parasites? something else? human disease? veterinary? plant disease?
Did he carry the disease himself? if so: did he know?
Was he in Poland when he started the epidemics?
Did he come to Poland?
The Colorado Beetle relevant?
Twilightseeker (Twilightseeker)
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Posted on Thursday, March 31, 2011 - 11:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he kill a lot of Nazis with the epidemic and thereby save lot of Jews that would have otherwise been killed by the Nazis?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 735
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Posted on Thursday, March 31, 2011 - 12:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sundowner:
Epidemics = infectuous disease? this parasites? something else? human disease? this veterinary? plant disease?
Did he carry the disease himself? if so: did he know? no to both
Was he in Poland when he started the epidemics? yes
Did he come to Poland? no, he was Polish. But he emigrated after the war
The Colorado Beetle relevant? no

Twilightseeker:
Did he kill a lot of Nazis with the epidemic and thereby save lot of Jews that would have otherwise been killed by the Nazis? no
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, March 31, 2011 - 1:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he start the epidemic among humans? Did he save human lives?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 737
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Posted on Thursday, March 31, 2011 - 2:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin:
Did he start the epidemic among humans? yes Did he save human lives? yes
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Thursday, March 31, 2011 - 2:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did anyone die from the disease during this epidemic? Did the survivors develop some sort of resistance to the disease so it was impossible for them afterwards to contract the disease?

Did he start it knowingly? Was it part of the war effort?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Thursday, March 31, 2011 - 4:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Location not essential...As in, it doesn't have to be Poland?
Would any European country work as well?
Only Eastern European?
Only those invaded by Germany?
Germany itelf?

Is WWII relevant?
Are concetration camps revelant?

He is a yes-ish scientist:
Doctor?
Medical professional?
Academic in a medical field?
Biology? Sociology?
(I don't think this existed yet but...)Epidemiology?

Epidemic of a single disease, yes?
But other diseases are relevant?
Are the others related to the one?
Like Cow Pox and Small Pox?

Is it relevant WHICH disease was the epidemic?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 741
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Posted on Thursday, March 31, 2011 - 9:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Rbruma:
Did anyone die from the disease during this epidemic? no, very good question. Did the survivors develop some sort of resistance to the disease so it was impossible for them afterwards to contract the disease? no

Did he start it knowingly? Was it part of the war effort? yes to both

Vesica:
Location not essential...As in, it doesn't have to be Poland?
Would any European country work as well?
Only Eastern European?
Only those invaded by Germany? This could happen in any country. Just wartime context is relevant
Germany itelf?

Is WWII relevant? Only that it happened during the war and to settle the context
Are concetration camps revelant? Mildly

He is a yes-ish scientist:
Doctor? yes
Medical professional?
Academic in a medical field? probably also this. He had more specific knowledge than any usual doctor
Biology? Sociology?
(I don't think this existed yet but...)Epidemiology? also a bit of this

Epidemic of a single disease, yes? yes
But other diseases are relevant? yesish - one other "disease", for svv of "disease"
Are the others related to the one? YES
Like Cow Pox and Small Pox? but not this way. Explore!

Is it relevant WHICH disease was the epidemic? YES - very.
Twilightseeker (Twilightseeker)
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Posted on Thursday, March 31, 2011 - 10:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he somehow cause a dangerous variation of an otherwise "typical" disease? Several variations?

Did he cause certain people to die? Or did he only save lives? Did he kill other, non-human entities?
Shez (Shez)
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Post Number: 429
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Posted on Thursday, March 31, 2011 - 10:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

flu? a sexually transmitted disease?

measles?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 743
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Posted on Thursday, March 31, 2011 - 10:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Twilightseeker:
Did he somehow cause a dangerous variation of an otherwise "typical" disease? Several variations? no to both

Did he cause certain people to die? no Or did he only save lives? yes Did he kill other, non-human entities? no

Shez:
flu? no a sexually transmitted disease? no

measles? no
Twilightseeker (Twilightseeker)
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Posted on Thursday, March 31, 2011 - 10:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the presence or existence a disease/diseases prevent some kind of war crime? prevent general war-induced slaughter/killing? was it widely known that this disease(s) was/were dangerous?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Thursday, March 31, 2011 - 10:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he ordered to do this by some higher authority? Did authorities or officials know what he was doing? Did they approve it?

Did he save lives in general? Or the lives of a certain group of people? Lives of unborn children?
Field hospitals relevant?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Post Number: 486
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Posted on Friday, April 01, 2011 - 3:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is this disease easily remedied?
Was it at the time?
Bacterial?
Viral?
Caused by some sort of microorganism?
Deficiency of some sort?

Affecting the:
Skin?
Bones?
Digestive System?
Brain/Nervous System?
Muscles?
Circulatory System?
Reproduction?
Endocrine?

Did the "saved" people have the disease when their lives were saved?
After?
Very long after?

Did the epidemic disease help them create antibodies that saved them from a later disease(s)?
Did the symptoms make them less susceptible to other diseases?

Did the epidemic disease make them sick?
Very sick, in bed?
Feeling a little unwell?
Or caused some sort of sickness in their body, but at an almost unnoticable level?

Is the epidemic disease unique to humans?
In this epidemic, did it originate in humans?

Conditions of war time - Are these relevant:
Food shortages?
Lack of clean water?
Social dislocation?
Loss of heating for homes?
Being exposed to immigrants from other countries (and their diseases)?
Actual fighting by troops?
Bombings?

Were the "saved" people saved all at the same time? Over a period of time?
Were they all in the same place?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 746
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Posted on Friday, April 01, 2011 - 11:07 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Twilightseeker:
Did the presence or existence a disease/diseases prevent some kind of war crime? prevent general war-induced slaughter/killing? was it widely known that this disease(s) was/were dangerous? yes to all

Doriana:
Was he ordered to do this by some higher authority? Did authorities or officials know what he was doing? Did they approve it? all are irrelevant, assume he did it on his own

Did he save lives in general? Or the lives of a certain group of people? this Lives of unborn children? not in this meaning of group, though
Field hospitals relevant? no
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Friday, April 01, 2011 - 11:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Vesica:
Is this disease easily remedied? which one?
Was it at the time?
Bacterial? this
Viral?
Caused by some sort of microorganism?
Deficiency of some sort?

Affecting the:
Skin?
Bones?
Digestive System?
Brain/Nervous System? this
Muscles?
Circulatory System? this
Reproduction?
Endocrine? also this

Did the "saved" people have the disease when their lives were saved? yes
After?
Very long after?

Did the epidemic disease help them create antibodies that saved them from a later disease(s)? no
Did the symptoms make them less susceptible to other diseases? no

Did the epidemic disease make them sick? no!
Very sick, in bed?
Feeling a little unwell?
Or caused some sort of sickness in their body, but at an almost unnoticable level? this or even less than this

Is the epidemic disease unique to humans? no
In this epidemic, did it originate in humans? activity of our man affected humans only

Conditions of war time - Are these relevant:
Food shortages?
Lack of clean water?
Social dislocation?
Loss of heating for homes?
Being exposed to immigrants from other countries (and their diseases)?
Actual fighting by troops? this but not only this
Bombings?

Were the "saved" people saved all at the same time? Over a period of time? during the whole wartime
Were they all in the same place? yesish
Potato (Potato)
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Posted on Friday, April 01, 2011 - 12:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The persons that became sick: People who were about to join the troops? Because they were forced? People who were already fighting? Prisoners of war?

Did the sickness allow them to stay at home / go back home? If they hadn't become sick, would they have probably died in the war (due to them fighting)? Or even surely (because they would've been executed)?

If they were allowed to stay away from the war, was it more because the persons who decided that were afraid of the disease spreading further? Or because the disease would've affected the performance of the infected persons (assuming they were soldiers)?

So, the disease didn't really make the infected persons look sick, right? Were healthy persons able to stay away by claiming that they had the disease?

Was the general public even aware of the disease at that time?

While not being deadly, did the disease lead to any sort of long-time or permanent impairment?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Friday, April 01, 2011 - 3:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Potato:
The persons that became sick: People who were about to join the troops? Because they were forced? People who were already fighting? Prisoners of war? no to all

Did the sickness allow them to stay at home / go back home? FA If they hadn't become sick, would they have probably died in the war some probably would (due to them fighting but not for this reason)? Or even surely (because they would've been executed)? some probably would be executed, too.

If they were allowed to stay away from the war literally correct, but the same FA, was it more because the persons who decided that were afraid of the disease spreading further? YES! Or because the disease would've affected the performance of the infected persons (assuming they were soldiers)? no

So, the disease didn't really make the infected persons look sick, right? yes indeed. Were healthy persons able to stay away by claiming that they had the disease? Yes, they were.

Was the general public even aware of the disease at that time? The enemy knew and only that's relevant

While not being deadly, did the disease lead to any sort of long-time or permanent impairment? no
Potato (Potato)
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Posted on Friday, April 01, 2011 - 3:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Not sure if this is too far-fetched, but did the enemy refuse to carry on fighting due to being afraid of catching the disease?

Probably even more far-fetched, but did the epidemy actually exist? Or was it all just made up with the aim of frightening the enemy by the rumor of a new epidemy? One that was similar to an actual and highly dangerous one?

You said that the disease affects the brain/nervous system, the circulatory system and the endocrine system. Does the disease mainly have an impact on the psyche?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Friday, April 01, 2011 - 4:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Potato:
Not sure if this is too far-fetched, but did the enemy refuse to carry on fighting due to being afraid of catching the disease? yesish - yope

Probably even more far-fetched, but did the epidemy actually exist? Noish! Or was it all just made up with the aim of frightening the enemy by the rumor of a new epidemy? Yes it was indeed One that was similar to an actual and highly dangerous one? This is all very OTRT, but some important details are wrong or missing

You said that the disease affects the brain/nervous system, the circulatory system and the endocrine system. Does the disease mainly have an impact on the psyche? again - which disease? The dangerous one is a normal, physical disease.
Fishbones (Fishbones)
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Posted on Friday, April 01, 2011 - 5:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Redwine-

Think I might know this. I'm sending you an e-mail, so if I dont' I can start guessing.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Monday, April 04, 2011 - 9:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Fishbones - Emailed solution is correct.
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Monday, April 04, 2011 - 9:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are there two diseases, right? Is there a scenario like the following: a very contagious disease had some symptoms, easily recognized by the enemy; so our hero created a variation that exhibited the same apparent symptoms, but of a condition that was not life-threatening? And the enemy considered this "epidemic" to be that of the real one? Is it at least OTRT?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - 9:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Rbruma:
Are there two diseases, right? yes Is there a scenario like the following: a very contagious disease had some symptoms, easily recognized by the enemy; yes so our hero created a variation that exhibited the same apparent symptoms, but of a condition that was not life-threatening? noish And the enemy considered this "epidemic" to be that of the real one? yes Is it at least OTRT?
This is very OTRT, only the part of what the man actually did is inaccurate.
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - 12:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The people he saved were civilians, right? Not soldiers?

Who did he save: a whole town? all the occupants of a single building (e.g. a hospital)? Something in between these two?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - 6:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he make people pretend they had that disease?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 06, 2011 - 8:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel:
The people he saved were civilians, right? yes Not soldiers?

Who did he save: a whole town? whole region all the occupants of a single building (e.g. a hospital)? Something in between these two? no to the rest

Doriana:
Did he make people pretend they had that disease? yes, but there's more to it
Potato (Potato)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 06, 2011 - 12:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he manage to turn the region into a kind of sanctuary that wasn't allowed to be attacked? And people from other regions went there to escape from war?

Evacuation relevant? Were the people who pretended to have the disease allowed to go to some place that was specifically designed for curing their disease (like a leper colony)? And they stayed there until the war was over (or even longer)?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 06, 2011 - 4:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Potato:
Did he manage to turn the region into a kind of sanctuary that wasn't allowed to be attacked? In a sense, yes. The Nazis were afraid to enter the area due to the "disease". And people from other regions went there to escape from war? Unknown, but possible.

Evacuation relevant? no Were the people who pretended to have the disease allowed to go to some place that was specifically designed for curing their disease (like a leper colony)? And they stayed there until the war was over (or even longer)? see above, people stayed safely at homes.
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 06, 2011 - 7:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Okay, let's try another variation:
Somewhere in Poland, during WWII there is a doctor?
And he starts a rumor that the citizens of his town (part of the country, the whole country) have X disease?
And X disease can be passed from person to person?
And the Nazis are sore afraid?
Because X disease is fatal? Highly contagious? Disfiguring?

This ruse works because...
There is another epidemic, Y disease, plaguing the citizens?
Y disease is not fatal (serious, life-threatening)?
But it has symptoms that can be mistaken for symptoms of X disease?

So the Nazis believe the X outbreak is real and stay away?

X and Y diseases are related?
But are not Small Pox and Cow Pox?

And now...for a really long list of diseases that can be passed from person to person...
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 06, 2011 - 8:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Y disease something that can pass from person to person (Infectious/communicable)?

Are any of the following diseases relevant:
African sleeping sickness?
Anthrax?
Hemorragic fever?
Influenza?
Pneumonia?
Botulism?
Chickenpox?
Chlamydia?
Cholera?
Thyphoid?
Diphtheria?
Gonorrhea?
Strep?
Hepatitis?
Legionnaires' disease?
Leprosy?
Lyme disease?
Malaria?
Measles?
Meningitis?
Mumps?
Conjunctivitis?
Pertussis?
Rabies?
Rubella?
Salmonella?
Syphilis?
Tetanus?
Tuberculosis?
Tularemia?
Encephalitis?
Yellow fever?
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Wednesday, April 06, 2011 - 8:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

ick, what a scary list, Vesica...
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Thursday, April 07, 2011 - 12:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the disease a VD/STD?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Thursday, April 07, 2011 - 6:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What's scary is how easy it was for me to come up with once I started thinking. I've always thought epidemiology was cool and have looked at postings for the CDC. Don't want to live in Atlanta though...
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Thursday, April 07, 2011 - 8:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

To answer all the questions about the disease first, it's typhoid.

Vesica:
Somewhere in Poland, during WWII there is a doctor? yes
And he starts a rumor that the citizens of his town (part of the country, the whole country) have X disease? He did more. Would Nazis just believe his word, no checking the rumor?
And X disease can be passed from person to person? yes
And the Nazis are sore afraid? yes
Because X disease is fatal? yes Highly contagious? Disfiguring?

This ruse works because...
There is another epidemic, Y disease, plaguing the citizens? yope, explore
Y disease is not fatal (serious, life-threatening)? yes. It has very little impact on people, but...
But it has symptoms that can be mistaken for symptoms of X disease? YOPE - explore! Definitely it can be mistaken for typhoid, but WHY?

So the Nazis believe the X outbreak is real and stay away? yes

X and Y diseases are related? somehow related, explore the yope for symptoms and you will know
But are not Small Pox and Cow Pox? indeed
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2011 - 4:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Okay, I've been forced to wiki this one, as I am at the end of my given knowledge about typhoid.

Relevant typhoid symptom:
Fever?
Sweating?
Cough?
Diarrhea?
Rash of red spots (though wiki says this happens in only 1/3 of cases)?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Friday, April 15, 2011 - 9:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Vesica:
Relevant typhoid symptom:
Fever?
Sweating?
Cough?
Diarrhea?
Rash of red spots (though wiki says this happens in only 1/3 of cases)? none, as to my knowledge.
HINT: The non-harmful bacteria and typhoid give exactly the same result of blood analysis, and that's all relevant knowledge about symptoms. Only thing left is what the doctor did to convince Nazis that there's typhoid epidemia?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Friday, April 15, 2011 - 3:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So the Nazis would have to do blood work to confirm?
That seems really involved...

Did the doctor fake test results?
And show them to the Nazis?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Friday, April 15, 2011 - 3:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Vesica:
So the Nazis would have to do blood work to confirm? indeed
That seems really involved...

Did the doctor fake test results? No, he did more.
And show them to the Nazis? Nazis wanted to check by themselves.
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Friday, April 15, 2011 - 4:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the doctor claim he didn't know what was wrong with the people?
And brought them to Nazi docs for evaluation?
When the tests were run - it looked like typhoid?

Did the doctor draw the blood?
Did the Nazis?
Were the Nazis checking for illness or something else?

Did everyone's blood get checked?
Or just certain people?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Monday, April 18, 2011 - 11:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Vesica:
Did the doctor claim he didn't know what was wrong with the people? no
And brought them to Nazi docs for evaluation? but yes
When the tests were run - it looked like typhoid? yes, that was the concept

Did the doctor draw the blood? yes
Did the Nazis? and yes
Were the Nazis checking for illness or something else? for illness. They realized that there's epidemics but not more people die than usually and decided to check.

Did everyone's blood get checked?
Or just certain people? This. Certain people of those about whom the doctor claimed they were ill
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Monday, April 18, 2011 - 2:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I don’t know about the rest of you, but I need a RECAP

He started the epidemics and saved thousands of lives.

True story, Set in Poland during WWII.

He was a doctor and for the purposes of this puzzle, we are assuming he started one epidemic (correct?).

The epidemic did not make people sick and no one died, BECAUSE there was no epidemic. It was a rumor.

However, Nazis believed the rumor (based on some evidence) and lives were spared as the Nazis did not want to get sick and left the area.
The rumored epidemic was typhoid.

There WAS another epidemic among these people that looked like typhoid in blood tests, helping fool the Nazis.

SO……………
We still need:
What the other disease was?
Anything else?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Monday, April 18, 2011 - 2:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And now for some questions…
Did the doctor start the other epidemic (Disease Y)?
Was it present because of the wartime conditions?
Or was it endemic to the area?

Is Disease Y contagious?
Passed from person to person?

Tyhpoid is caused by a type of Salmonella bacteria, yes?
But there are other Salmonella bacteria that cause other illnesses in humans?
Such as food poisioning?

Hey WAIT! Did the doctor deliberately give a few folks Salmonella food poisoning?
And then send those folks only for testing?
And for some reason the Nazis could not tell the difference, only that they were Salmonella bacteria?
Did the right equipment not exist to see the difference?
Were they using a chemical or indicator test? That could not tell the difference?
Is how they read the blood test relevant?
Did the doctor tamper with the chemicals/equipment/means of reading the blood test?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2011 - 12:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Vesica:
I don't know about the rest of you, but I need a RECAP

He started the epidemics and saved thousands of lives.

True story, Set in Poland during WWII. yes

He was a doctor and for the purposes of this puzzle, we are assuming he started one epidemic (correct?). safe assumption

The epidemic did not make people sick and no one died, BECAUSE there was no epidemic. It was a rumor. generally, yes

However, Nazis believed the rumor (based on some evidence) and lives were spared as the Nazis did not want to get sick and left the area. yes
The rumored epidemic was typhoid. yes

There WAS another epidemic epidemic is a strong word for that among these people that looked like typhoid in blood tests, helping fool the Nazis.yes

SO;
We still need:
What the other disease was? that's only marginal information
Anything else? yes - what the man actually did. It was more than spreading a rumor and faking evidence.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2011 - 12:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Vesica:
Did the doctor start the other epidemic (Disease Y)? yes
Was it present because of the wartime conditions?
Or was it endemic to the area? See below

Is Disease Y contagious?
Passed from person to person? I don't know. My source says it's totally not harmful to people.

Forgive me not answering the specific questions about the disease and bacteria - but help is soon to come.


Tyhpoid is caused by a type of Salmonella bacteria, yes?
But there are other Salmonella bacteria that cause other illnesses in humans?
Such as food poisioning?

Hey WAIT! Did the doctor deliberately give a few folks Salmonella food poisoning? not exacly, but close enough.
And then send those folks only for testing?
And for some reason the Nazis could not tell the difference, only that they were Salmonella bacteria?
Did the right equipment not exist to see the difference?
Were they using a chemical or indicator test? That could not tell the difference?
Is how they read the blood test relevant?
Did the doctor tamper with the chemicals/equipment/means of reading the blood test?

******SPOILER*********
During World War II, a Polish doctor used the Proteus OX19 bacteria to masquerade as typhoid, as the presence of the bacteria made blood tests results look like those of typhoid. He deliberately give the Proteus OX19 to people from the area.
There is one more interesting story about that. When the Nazis wanted to check the rumor (they saw that no more people die than usually), the doctor made a big alcohol party in the town hall. The main Nazi doctor from the checking team stayed on the party and sent two young trainees to the hospital. Polish doctor previously moved the hospital to the weakest and most ruined cottage in the area, to make humble impression. Then he placed in the "hospital" the weakest, old people and taught them what to tell to Nazis. The trainees made a simple blood test, noticed fever and spots and diagnosed typhoid.

Thanks to Vesica for her persistence and guessing it, congrats also to Fishbones, who emailed me a correct solution.
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2011 - 2:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Awesome puzzle and very interesting historical fact!

So glad I could once again achieve success through the overwhemling power of my stubborness...I mean tenacity. :D

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