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Balin (Balin)
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Username: Balin

Post Number: 13925
Registered: 4-2010
Posted on Saturday, May 21, 2011 - 3:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Last new puzzle from me before I leave Tuesday for my two-month hiatus (see my "Closed for the season" puzzle) -- good luck.

A man was killed by a dead man. How?

(FSEI)
Doriana (Doriana)
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Username: Doriana

Post Number: 1363
Registered: 12-2010
Posted on Saturday, May 21, 2011 - 8:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the body directly physically kill him? Did the body fall on him? Did he stumble over it?
Markobr (Markobr)
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Username: Markobr

Post Number: 1098
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Saturday, May 21, 2011 - 9:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he killed because he was considered guilty of killing the now dead man? Otherwise intentionally killed by some living person? Did he commit suicide? Die by accident? Would his death usually be attributed to natural causes?
Balin (Balin)
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Username: Balin

Post Number: 13926
Registered: 4-2010
Posted on Saturday, May 21, 2011 - 11:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the body directly physically kill him? Yes Did the body fall on him? No Did he stumble over it? No

Was he killed because he was considered guilty of killing the now dead man? No, but... Otherwise intentionally killed by some living person? No Did he commit suicide? No Die by accident? Yope Would his death usually be attributed to natural causes? No
Markobr (Markobr)
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Username: Markobr

Post Number: 1099
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Sunday, May 22, 2011 - 9:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he kill the man? If so: Was it murder? An execution? An act of war? Self-defence? An accident?
Balin (Balin)
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Username: Balin

Post Number: 13930
Registered: 4-2010
Posted on Sunday, May 22, 2011 - 7:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he kill the man? Yes If so: Was it murder? Yes An execution? An act of war? Self-defence? An accident?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Username: Doriana

Post Number: 1366
Registered: 12-2010
Posted on Sunday, May 22, 2011 - 8:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he (can we call him Charly?) die right after killing the other man (can we call him Jacob?)?
If not, hours later? days? weeks? months? years?

Is Charly's age relevant? religious background? ethnic background? physical appearance? character traits? profession?
Same questions for Jacob.

Location/time relevant? If so, the usual lists, please.
Shez (Shez)
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Username: Shez

Post Number: 874
Registered: 2-2011
Posted on Sunday, May 22, 2011 - 9:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did Charly push Jacob off a precipice and they were tied together?

did Jacob's body fall on him and suffocate him? or pin him down in a dangerous situation like a railway track or in front of a bus?
Balin (Balin)
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Username: Balin

Post Number: 13932
Registered: 4-2010
Posted on Monday, May 23, 2011 - 1:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he (can we call him Charly?) die right after killing the other man (can we call him Jacob?)? Those names work, and No
If not, hours later? days? weeks? months? years? Probably minutes -- say 15-30

Is Charly's age relevant? religious background? ethnic background? physical appearance? character traits? profession?
Same questions for Jacob. No to all

Location/time relevant? Yes (DOYD of location) and No If so, the usual lists, please. Not that kind of location

did Charly push Jacob off a precipice and they were tied together? No

did Jacob's body fall on him and suffocate him? No, but close or pin him down Noish in a dangerous situation like a railway track or in front of a bus? No
Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
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Username: Dukhsan

Post Number: 100
Registered: 3-2011
Posted on Monday, May 23, 2011 - 1:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This is probably on the wrong track. Just in case:
Did Charly cannibalize any part of Jacob's body? Or, in general, was one particular body part responsible for the death? If yes to either, [insert list of body parts to ask about.]
Or did he touch/otherwise ingest a poisonous item the body was carrying?

The "No, but..." answer above - so is the fact that Jacob was murdered definitely relevant? As in, could Charly have died the same way (by means of Jacob's body) if he did not kill Jacob?

Was an avalanche involved (a variant on shooting a gun and triggering one)?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Username: Doriana

Post Number: 1369
Registered: 12-2010
Posted on Monday, May 23, 2011 - 6:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Charly kill Jacob indoors? outdoors? in a private residence? public building? vehicle?
Same questions for where Charly died.

Did Charly hide the body?

Relevant why he murdered Jacob?
Shez (Shez)
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Username: Shez

Post Number: 875
Registered: 2-2011
Posted on Monday, May 23, 2011 - 8:54 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did Jacob's body fall on Charly? did it fall in such a way that it blocked Charly's movement in another way?

did it fall on a switch? did it fall and block a tunnel or exit?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Username: Peter365

Post Number: 3450
Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Monday, May 23, 2011 - 10:26 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Question unrelated to this puzzle. Where is the "Closed for the season puzzle"? I can't seem to see it anywhere.
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Username: Peter365

Post Number: 3451
Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Monday, May 23, 2011 - 10:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cancel that I just found it. I was terrified that I'd deleted by accident.
Shez (Shez)
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Username: Shez

Post Number: 876
Registered: 2-2011
Posted on Monday, May 23, 2011 - 12:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

call me pedantic, but couldn't you just have deleted your previous post?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Username: Peter365

Post Number: 3454
Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Monday, May 23, 2011 - 1:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

call me pedantic, but couldn't you just have deleted your previous post? Hee hee I keep forgetting that my moderator privilages allow me to delete all sorts of embarassing posts. I could of course delete both my posts and this one which would make your post look a bit left field but of course that would be an abuse of power
Balin (Balin)
New member
Username: Balin

Post Number: 13936
Registered: 4-2010
Posted on Monday, May 23, 2011 - 6:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This is probably on the wrong track. Just in case:
Did Charly cannibalize any part of Jacob's body? No Or, in general, was one particular body part responsible for the death? Yes If yes to either, [insert list of body parts to ask about.] Arms
Or did he touch/otherwise ingest a poisonous item the body was carrying? No

The "No, but..." answer above - so is the fact that Jacob was murdered definitely relevant? Yes As in, could Charly have died the same way (by means of Jacob's body) if he did not kill Jacob? It is possible, but the circumstances would have been unlikely

Was an avalanche involved (a variant on shooting a gun and triggering one)? No

Did Charly kill Jacob indoors? outdoors? in a private residence? public building? vehicle? Irrel and I can't remember
Same questions for where Charly died. Outdoors

Did Charly hide the body? Yope!

Relevant why he murdered Jacob? No

did Jacob's body fall on Charly? did it fall in such a way that it blocked Charly's movement in another way? did it fall on a switch? did it fall and block a tunnel or exit? Jacob's body didn't fall at all
Doriana (Doriana)
New member
Username: Doriana

Post Number: 1372
Registered: 12-2010
Posted on Monday, May 23, 2011 - 6:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant how he murdered Jacob? If so, did the shoot him? strangle him? Drown him? Burn him? Push him off a cliff or something like that? Poison him? Run him over? Stab him?

Did Charly shoot Jacob, and Jacob had a gun in his hand too that went off somehow?

Did he try to hide the body? Did he hide parts of it?
Balin (Balin)
New member
Username: Balin

Post Number: 13940
Registered: 4-2010
Posted on Monday, May 23, 2011 - 11:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it relevant how he murdered Jacob? No, and that's good, because I can't remember, and I can't find the book with the story in it If so, did the shoot him? strangle him? Drown him? Burn him? Push him off a cliff or something like that? Poison him? Run him over? Stab him?

Did Charly shoot Jacob, and Jacob had a gun in his hand too that went off somehow? No

Did he try to hide the body? Yes Did he hide parts of it? No
Doriana (Doriana)
New member
Username: Doriana

Post Number: 1376
Registered: 12-2010
Posted on Monday, May 23, 2011 - 11:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he die while he was trying to hide the body? Did he want to bury the body? To burn it?
Balin (Balin)
New member
Username: Balin

Post Number: 13943
Registered: 4-2010
Posted on Monday, May 23, 2011 - 11:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he die while he was trying to hide the body? Yes! Did he want to bury the body? Noish/Yope To burn it? No
Doriana (Doriana)
New member
Username: Doriana

Post Number: 1377
Registered: 12-2010
Posted on Monday, May 23, 2011 - 11:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You said the arms were responsible for his death - were they attached to the body when Charly died? Did the arms strangle him?

Any weapons involved? Are there any witnesses?

By the way, I just sent you a facebook message.
Balin (Balin)
New member
Username: Balin

Post Number: 13948
Registered: 4-2010
Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2011 - 1:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You said the arms were responsible for his death - were they attached to the body when Charly died? Yes!! Did the arms strangle him? Yes!!

Any weapons involved? No Are there any witnesses? No
Doriana (Doriana)
New member
Username: Doriana

Post Number: 1380
Registered: 12-2010
Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2011 - 10:10 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he carrying the body piggyback?
Balin (Balin)
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Username: Balin

Post Number: 13951
Registered: 4-2010
Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2011 - 3:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he carrying the body piggyback? YES!!

One more detail...
Vesica (Vesica)
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Username: Vesica

Post Number: 1199
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2011 - 5:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he tie the dead man's hands together? Secure them in some way?

Did the dead man fall and his weight around the neck killed Man 2?
Balin (Balin)
New member
Username: Balin

Post Number: 13953
Registered: 4-2010
Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2011 - 6:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he tie the dead man's hands together? No Secure them in some way? No

Did the dead man fall and his weight around the neck killed Man 2? No
Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
New member
Username: Dukhsan

Post Number: 101
Registered: 3-2011
Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2011 - 10:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did rigor mortis set in while he was carrying the body, thus securing the arms and hands in a way that would asphyxiate him?
Balin (Balin)
New member
Username: Balin

Post Number: 13961
Registered: 4-2010
Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2011 - 3:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did rigor mortis set in while he was carrying the body, thus securing the arms and hands in a way that would asphyxiate him? Yes!!

And just in time, for indeed, the time has come...

**********SPOILER**********

And since I found the book with the story ("The Turn of the Tide," by C. S. Forester), I can give a more detailed $poyler.

A man strangles another man to death, and plans to dump the body into the sea. To do this, he carries the body piggyback-style. However, when he tries to dump the body, he cannot do so, and falls into the sea himself. Rigor mortis has set in, and the corpse's arms are around the killer's neck, strangling him.

Excellent work everyone, especially Doriana and Dukhsan. Now, I will sign off in the chatroom.
Dukhsan (Dukhsan)
New member
Username: Dukhsan

Post Number: 102
Registered: 3-2011
Posted on Friday, May 27, 2011 - 1:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well done. I forgot how quickly rigor mortis took to kick in, so I wasn't 100% sure on my guess, but it seems like I was right. Excellent puzzle.

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