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Redwine (Redwine)
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Username: Redwine

Post Number: 826
Registered: 1-2011
Posted on Thursday, June 02, 2011 - 10:12 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

She came for what she needed and left with what she needed more.

Story which I read as a true one. All she's refer to the same HAF.
Markobr (Markobr)
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Post Number: 1128
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Thursday, June 02, 2011 - 12:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she come to a building? A village? Town? City? Country? Some place inside a village/town/city other than a building? A means of transport?

Is what she needed a tangible object? What she needed more?

Time between coming and leaving: Seconds? Minutes? Hours? Days? Months? Years?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Username: Redwine

Post Number: 827
Registered: 1-2011
Posted on Thursday, June 02, 2011 - 1:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Markobr:
Did she come to a building? this A village? Town? City? Country? Some place inside a village/town/city other than a building? A means of transport?

Is what she needed a tangible object? yes What she needed more? no

Time between coming and leaving: Seconds? Minutes? Hours? this Days? Months? Years?
Markobr (Markobr)
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Post Number: 1130
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Thursday, June 02, 2011 - 1:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the building a shop? A factory? An office? A hospital? A surgery? A pub? A hotel? A (bus/railway/underground/...) station? A residential house? A school? Townhall? Library? Other public building?

Did she want to buy the tangible object? Borrow it? Steal it? Is it her own, and she just wanted to fetch it?

Is what she needed more some kind of information? Maybe advice?

Did she spend more time in the building than she originally intended? Less time? Did she also get the tangible object?

Other person(s) relevant? If so: 1? 2? 3? 4? more?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Username: Vesica

Post Number: 1250
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Thursday, June 02, 2011 - 7:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

At the time when she left,
Did she still need what she originally came for?

The building she came to:
Store or Retailer?
Restaurant/Cafe?
A Service business (such as tax prep, travel agency etc.)?
School?
Government office?
Recreational Facility (gym, movie theater, etc)?
Residence?
Medical facility?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Username: Redwine

Post Number: 829
Registered: 1-2011
Posted on Friday, June 03, 2011 - 11:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Markobr:
Is the building a shop? A factory? An office? A hospital? A surgery? A pub? thisish, see below A hotel? A (bus/railway/underground/...) station? A residential house? A school? Townhall? Library? Other public building?

Did she want to buy the tangible object? yes, no to the rest Borrow it? Steal it? Is it her own, and she just wanted to fetch it?

Is what she needed more some kind of information? Maybe advice? no to both

Did she spend more time in the building than she originally intended? yes Less time? Did she also get the tangible object? yes

Other person(s) relevant? If so: 1? 2? 3? this 4? more?

Vesica:
At the time when she left,
Did she still need what she originally came for? no

The building she came to:
Store or Retailer?
Restaurant/Cafe? thisish, see above
A Service business (such as tax prep, travel agency etc.)?
School?
Government office?
Recreational Facility (gym, movie theater, etc)?
Residence?
Medical facility?
Markobr (Markobr)
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Username: Markobr

Post Number: 1138
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Friday, June 03, 2011 - 11:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she want to get something to eat? To drink?

Did she meet the three other relevant persons in the pub/restaurant/cafe? Two of them? One of them?

Did she know the three other relevant persons before entering? Two of them? One of them?

Are the other relevant persons H? A? M? Relevant?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Username: Redwine

Post Number: 835
Registered: 1-2011
Posted on Friday, June 03, 2011 - 11:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Markobr:
Did she want to get something to eat? yes To drink? maybe only as an addition to food

Did she meet the three other relevant persons in the pub/restaurant/cafe? yes Two of them? One of them?

Did she know the three other relevant persons before entering? Two of them? One of them? She could have seen one of the persons before, but they were not acquaitances.

Are the other relevant persons H? A? M? HA mixed, not so much relevant. In fact, two men and one woman. Relevant?
Markobr (Markobr)
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Post Number: 1142
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Friday, June 03, 2011 - 5:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she get what she needed more from (some of) the three people? Do all three people more or less play a single role together?

Is it relevant what type of pub/restaurant/cafe she is going to?
Potato (Potato)
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Post Number: 796
Registered: 7-2010
Posted on Monday, June 06, 2011 - 12:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she eat the food in the pub/restaurant/cafe?
Did she take it with her when she left?
Did she take leftovers with her?
If she took food with her, did she give any of it to any of the three persons?

The thing that she needed more, was it a feeling?
If so, was it a feeling of
...having done something good?
...being liked/accepted?
...being respected?
...being smart?
...safety?

Or was it advice?
Directions?
Certainty?
Support?
Reassurance?
A job?

Could she have gotten the thing she needed also if she hadn't bought the food?
Could she have gotten it at a place other than the pub/restaurant/cafe, assuming all relevant persons were there, too?
Potato (Potato)
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Post Number: 797
Registered: 7-2010
Posted on Monday, June 06, 2011 - 12:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Correction...

Could she have gotten the thing she needed more also if she hadn't bought the food?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Username: Redwine

Post Number: 837
Registered: 1-2011
Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2011 - 11:52 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Markobr:
Did she get what she needed more from (some of) the three people? yes Do all three people more or less play a single role together? noish

Is it relevant what type of pub/restaurant/cafe she is going to? No, it's only relevant that people can get both food and drinks there.

Potato:
Did she eat the food in the pub/restaurant/cafe? yes
Did she take it with her when she left? no
Did she take leftovers with her? no
If she took food with her, did she give any of it to any of the three persons? so irr.

The thing that she needed more, was it a feeling? no.
If so, was it a feeling of
...having done something good?
...being liked/accepted?
...being respected?
...being smart?
...safety?

Or was it advice?
Directions?
Certainty?
Support?
Reassurance?
A job? This and also something else.

Could she have gotten the thing she needed more also if she hadn't bought the food? Probably yes, but it would be more difficult. There is a FA in this question.
Could she have gotten it at a place other than the pub/restaurant/cafe, assuming all relevant persons were there, too? Assume no.
Vesica (Vesica)
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Username: Vesica

Post Number: 1310
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2011 - 5:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

A job AND the skills to do the job?
Some requirement of the job - like a uniform?

So what she needed was a meal?
But what she needed more was the ability to get future meals as well (aka income to support herself)?

Did she get a job at the cafe/pub?
Potato (Potato)
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Username: Potato

Post Number: 813
Registered: 7-2010
Posted on Tuesday, June 07, 2011 - 10:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The FA in the one question in my previous post, is it because she didn't actually buy the food?
Did she intend to pay but realized that she didn't have enough money on her?
And somebody paid for her?
If so, was it
...the waiter/bartender?
...the owner of the cafe/pub?
...another costumer?

Relevant what she had for a meal?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Username: Redwine

Post Number: 843
Registered: 1-2011
Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2011 - 3:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Vesica:
A job AND the skills to do the job? no
Some requirement of the job - like a uniform? no

So what she needed was a meal? yes
But what she needed more was the ability to get future meals as well (aka income to support herself)? Something like this, yes. She was unemployed at the time.

Did she get a job at the cafe/pub? yes.

Potato:
The FA in the one question in my previous post, is it because she didn't actually buy the food? YES!
Did she intend to pay yes... but realized that she didn't have enough money on her? No.
And somebody paid for her? No, if you imagine someone taking his/her purse and paying but yes, she got a free meal.
If so, was it
...the waiter/bartender?
...the owner of the cafe/pub? I think this. She got her meal free, so the owner didn't get his money - so in fact he paid the cost of the meal.
...another costumer?

Relevant what she had for a meal? No.
Potato (Potato)
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Post Number: 820
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Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2011 - 3:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What she needed more:
A work contract?
If so, did she need the contract to get anything else (apart from money, of course), such as a better apartment?
Potato (Potato)
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Post Number: 821
Registered: 7-2010
Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2011 - 3:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Had she offered to work for her meal, instead of paying for it?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 846
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Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2011 - 4:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Potato:
What she needed more:
A work contract? Yes and...
If so, did she need the contract to get anything else (apart from money, of course), such as a better apartment? Yes, she was offered also a flat to rent.
Had she offered to work for her meal, instead of paying for it? Yope - yesish.
Potato (Potato)
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Post Number: 822
Registered: 7-2010
Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2011 - 7:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Had she also been homeless before?

Did the owner hire her out of pity?
Or did she work for her meal and the owner was convinced of her being a good worker?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Username: Redwine

Post Number: 850
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Posted on Thursday, June 09, 2011 - 9:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Potato:
Had she also been homeless before? I don't know. Certainly she was looking for a flat.

Did the owner hire her out of pity? no
Or did she work for her meal note the above yope-yesish answer... and the owner was convinced of her being a good worker? Yesish. One particular skill of hers is relevant.
Vesica (Vesica)
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Post Number: 1359
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Posted on Thursday, June 09, 2011 - 7:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the owner know he would be "comping" her meal when she walked in?
When she ordered?
When her food arrived?
During her meal?
After she ate?
("Comping", in case it's unfamiliar, is service-industry lingo for providing services billed to the house or free.)

Did she intentionally show the owner her skill?
Did something happen while she was there that revealed her skill?

The Skill:
Relevant to cooking?
Waitressing?
Accounting?
Dishwashing?
Knife Skills?
People skills?
Is it a skill that would be obviously relevant to a cafe/pub setting?

Totally Random Question: Are autistic savants at all relevant here?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Username: Redwine

Post Number: 851
Registered: 1-2011
Posted on Friday, June 10, 2011 - 10:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Vesica:
Did the owner know he would be "comping" her meal when she walked in? no
When she ordered? no, and this is a FA here
When her food arrived? This is when it was definite that her food was free.
During her meal?
After she ate? This is when owner got known of the situation.
("Comping", in case it's unfamiliar, is service-industry lingo for providing services billed to the house or free.)

Did she intentionally show the owner her skill? She intentionally did what she did, but it was not on purpose of showing her skill.
Did something happen while she was there that revealed her skill? See above.

The Skill:
Relevant to cooking?
Waitressing? A bit of this is relevant, but it's not the primarily relevant skill.
Accounting? Ditto.
Dishwashing?
Knife Skills?
People skills? This is closest to the primarily relevant skill, but beware.
Is it a skill that would be obviously relevant to a cafe/pub setting? No. It's a general skill.

Totally Random Question: Are autistic savants at all relevant here? No.
Potato (Potato)
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Post Number: 833
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Posted on Friday, June 10, 2011 - 2:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she trick the owner into giving her the meal for free?
Did she lie to him at some point?
Did she pose as somebody else?
Did she give him arguments as to why giving out free meals is a good marketing strategy?
Or why he should give her in particular the free meal?
Did she flirt with him?

It was clear that she would get the meal for free when it arrived.
Is that just because of her determination and that she was handed the meal?
Or was she doing something relevant then?
Had she done something relevant earlier?

There are three other relevant persons, right?
Is one of them the owner?
And another one the waiter?
Is the third one another worker for the cafe/pub?
Or is it another costumer?

Did the waiter complain about her to the owner for some reason?
Did she wanted to talk to the owner herself?
Did the owner see whatever she was doing and talked to her?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Username: Vesica

Post Number: 1389
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Friday, June 10, 2011 - 3:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So she did NOT order?
Was that standard for this establishment?
Did she differentiate herself from other customers when she walked in? After that?

Did her skill become apparent because of her interaction with someone else? More than one someone else?
In how she ate?
What she did before eating?
After eating?
Did she eat?

What she ate relevant?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Username: Redwine

Post Number: 857
Registered: 1-2011
Posted on Monday, June 13, 2011 - 9:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Potato:
Did she trick the owner into giving her the meal for free? no
Did she lie to him at some point? no
Did she pose as somebody else? no, but...
Did she give him arguments as to why giving out free meals is a good marketing strategy? no
Or why he should give her in particular the free meal? no
Did she flirt with him? no

It was clear that she would get the meal for free when it arrived. Yes, and the circumstances are important.
Is that just because of her determination determination is relevant and that she was handed the meal? I'm not sure if I understand the question correctly. Please rephrase.
Or was she doing something relevant then? no
Had she done something relevant earlier? no

There are three other relevant persons, right? Absolutely.
Is one of them the owner? Yes.
And another one the waiter? Yes.
Is the third one another worker for the cafe/pub? Yes, the cook.
Or is it another costumer? So no. But customers are also relevant in a way.

Did the waiter complain about her to the owner for some reason? No.
Did she wanted to talk to the owner herself?No.
Did the owner see whatever she was doing and talked to her? You may safely assume this.

Vesica:
So she did NOT order? Correct and relevant.
Was that standard for this establishment? No.
Did she differentiate herself from other customers when she walked in? Possibly. Explore.After that? After that she became a worker of the pub, so yes.

Did her skill become apparent because of her interaction with someone else? YES! More than one someone else? and YES!
In how she ate? No, but the circumstances of eating are relevant.
What she did before eating? No.
After eating? She did the relevant interaction after eating.
Did she eat? Yes.

What she ate relevant? No.
Vesica (Vesica)
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Username: Vesica

Post Number: 1414
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Monday, June 13, 2011 - 2:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, she walked in?
Did she ask for a table?
Did she ask for the owner (or an application)?
Was the first person she interacted with the waiter?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 864
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Posted on Tuesday, June 14, 2011 - 9:41 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Vesica:
So, she walked in? Yes.
Did she ask for a table? Yes - but she didn't get one. Why? (HINT)
Did she ask for the owner (or an application)? No.
Was the first person she interacted with the waiter? Yes.
Vesica (Vesica)
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Post Number: 1449
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Posted on Tuesday, June 14, 2011 - 4:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hmmm....Was the place full?
No empty tables?
Was it "Seat Yourself"?
Did they need immediate help?
Were they short staffed/missing a staff member?

Was it a counter service place?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 14, 2011 - 4:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

At any time, was she rude or impolite to anyone? Was the waiter impolite to her at any time? Same question for the cook and the owner?
Did she, at any time, make a helpful suggestion to the waiter? To the cook? To the owner?
Did the owner get the sense that she could enhance overall service at the restaurant? That she could attract new patrons? That she could assist with a specific issue at the restaurant?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Username: Redwine

Post Number: 872
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Posted on Wednesday, June 15, 2011 - 11:16 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Vesica:
Hmmm....Was the place full? Yes...
No empty tables? ... and Yes.
Was it "Seat Yourself"? Irrelevant.
Did they need immediate help? Who and when?
Were they short staffed/missing a staff member? Let's say that one waiter was not enough when the place was SO full.

Was it a counter service place? Irrelevant. Relevant that it was not a "high class" restaurant.

Ixoye:
At any time, was she rude or impolite to anyone? No Was the waiter impolite to her at any time? No Same question for the cook and the owner? No
Did she, at any time, make a helpful suggestion to the waiter? She did more than a suggestion. To the cook? No To the owner? No
Did the owner get the sense that she could enhance overall service at the restaurant? Yes, discover WHY. That she could attract new patrons? In a sense. That she could assist with a specific issue at the restaurant? Also, in a sense. Remember that she showed a particular, relevant skill.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 873
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Posted on Wednesday, June 15, 2011 - 11:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

RECAP:
She came for what she needed and left with what she needed more.

We established so far the following chain of events:
1. Young woman, hungry and unemployed, enters the cafe/pub (place with both food and drinks, relevant) to have a meal.
2. The place is overcrowded, there are no free tables, and only one waitress is not enough to manage with this all.
3. Woman gets a meal (she didn't order, relevant).
4. She gets known that her meal was free.
5. She has some interaction with a waitress (and here customers are also relevant), more than just a helpful suggestion, and this interaction reveals her particular skill.
6. She gets a job in the restaurant and is also offered a flat to rent.

Fields of exploration:
- Why the meal was free?
- What was the interaction with the waitress (don't forget about customers) and what happened next?
Potato (Potato)
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Post Number: 839
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Posted on Wednesday, June 15, 2011 - 12:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she get the meal as soon as the cafe/pub was less crowded (so that she could actually have a table there)?
Or did she get the meal while it was still crowded?
Is this relevant?

Did she offer to help the waitress by serving meals herself?
Did she get the free meal as a reward for her helpfulness?
Did she get the free meal as a compensation for not getting a table?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 874
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Posted on Wednesday, June 15, 2011 - 12:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Potato:
Did she get the meal as soon as the cafe/pub was less crowded (so that she could actually have a table there)? No
Or did she get the meal while it was still crowded? Yes.
Is this relevant? Yes, it is.

Did she offer to help the waitress by serving meals herself? Yes! She offered to serve drinks at the counter, to be precise.
Did she get the free meal as a reward for her helpfulness? No, remember that she got her free meal FIRST.
Did she get the free meal as a compensation for not getting a table? No, but not getting a table is relevant.
Potato (Potato)
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Post Number: 843
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Posted on Wednesday, June 15, 2011 - 2:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the meal prepared just for her?
Was it something that another costumer wrongly ordered?
Or something that another costumer wasn't happy with?

Relevant where she ate the meal?
Apparently not on a table, right?
Did she have it at the counter? While she served the drinks?
Did she have it in a "workers only" section of the cafe/pub, like the kitchen?
Did she have it outside the cafe/pub?

Relevant that she didn't get a table?
Relevant that other costumers didn't get a table?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Post Number: 1473
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Posted on Wednesday, June 15, 2011 - 3:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

She offered to serve drinks, but did she actually serve drinks?
Did she get her meal before she served any drinks?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 877
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Posted on Wednesday, June 15, 2011 - 4:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Potato:
Was the meal prepared just for her? Yesish
Was it something that another costumer wrongly ordered? no
Or something that another costumer wasn't happy with? no

Relevant where she ate the meal? YES!
Apparently not on a table, right? Right.
Did she have it at the counter? While she served the drinks? no
Did she have it in a "workers only" section of the cafe/pub, like the kitchen? YES. Precisely in the kitchen.
Did she have it outside the cafe/pub? so no.

Relevant that she didn't get a table? Yes - that's why she get her meal in the kitchen.
Relevant that other costumers didn't get a table? No.

Vesica:
She offered to serve drinks, but did she actually serve drinks? Yes, she did.
Did she get her meal before she served any drinks? Yes and this is also important.
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 15, 2011 - 6:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When she got her meal, did she know it would be free? Or did she discover after receiving it that she didn't have the money?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Username: Vesica

Post Number: 1480
Registered: 8-2001
Posted on Wednesday, June 15, 2011 - 8:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So she walked in and the place was packed, the waitress overwhelmed?
And she offered to help?
And the waitress referred her to the manager or owner?
Who was in the kitchen?
And he/she asked when she could start?
And offered her lunch first?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 878
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Posted on Thursday, June 16, 2011 - 8:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Noel:
When she got her meal, did she know it would be free? No. She wanted to pay. Or did she discover after receiving it that she didn't have the money? She had the money.

Vesica:
So she walked in and the place was packed, the waitress overwhelmed? Yes
And she offered to help? She did, but not so early.
And the waitress referred her to the manager or owner? No.
Who was in the kitchen? No, only the cook was in the kitchen.
And he/she asked when she could start? No.
And offered her lunch first? No.

HINT: Try the other way round - she entered the place, there was no table free, she had her meal in the kitchen. Everything else relevant happened after.
Vesica (Vesica)
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Post Number: 1490
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Posted on Thursday, June 16, 2011 - 2:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I don't understand why on earth any restaurant would let someone eat in the kitchen. It violates health code for starters.

Did she speak with the cook?
Did the cook speak with her?

She entered the place with the sole intent of getting a meal, for which she intended to pay?
She did not come in looking for work?
Or hoping for a free meal?

You said "Yes-ish" to her meal being made FOR her. We also established that she did not order.
Was there only one menu option at this place?
She did not ask for a meal but was given one, yes?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Thursday, June 16, 2011 - 2:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

OH wait...was there a special more expensive table IN the kitchen?
(some places have started doing this)

Or when you say "in the kitchen" you don't mean "standing right next to a stove"?
You mean more "back of the house", which is anywhere that is not the public "floor" of the restaurant?
Could it have been in an employee break room?
A picnic table out back?
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Thursday, June 16, 2011 - 3:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did her meal become free after she offered to help? or before?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Friday, June 17, 2011 - 2:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Vesica:
I don't understand why on earth any restaurant would let someone eat in the kitchen. It violates health code for starters. That's the clue...

Did she speak with the cook? Yes. When?
Did the cook speak with her? Yes. When?

She entered the place with the sole intent of getting a meal, for which she intended to pay? Yes.
She did not come in looking for work? She did not.
Or hoping for a free meal? Also she did not.

You said "Yes-ish" to her meal being made FOR her. We also established that she did not order. All correct.
Was there only one menu option at this place? Irrelevant.
She did not ask for a meal but was given one, yes? She wanted a meal. She asked for table. Waitress offered her meal in the kitchen. She didn't order as people do normally order in restaurants. Explore the circumstances.

OH wait...was there a special more expensive table IN the kitchen? No, maybe just a table for staff.
(some places have started doing this)

Or when you say "in the kitchen" you don't mean "standing right next to a stove"? In a separate kitchen, the place where cook prepared meals.
You mean more "back of the house", which is anywhere that is not the public "floor" of the restaurant? Yes.
Could it have been in an employee break room? Possibly.
A picnic table out back? Possibly.

Noel:
Did her meal become free after she offered to help? or before? The latter.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Friday, June 17, 2011 - 2:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

HINT 1: The waitress didn't follow her to the kitchen to explain the situation to the cook.

HINT 2: The relevant skill of hers is neither directly related to food/drinks, cooking, waitressing nor managing the business.
Potato (Potato)
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Posted on Friday, June 17, 2011 - 5:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Can we call "her" Mary, so that we don't confuse her with the waitress?

Did the waitress think that Mary was a restaurant critic?
Or a health inspector?
Or somebody being close to the owner? Like a friend or relative of his?

Did Mary choose the cafe/pub on purpose, knowing that she would get her meal for free there?

Is Mary's skill related to convincing people?
To acting?
Potato (Potato)
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Posted on Friday, June 17, 2011 - 5:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Mary wear a particular suit or uniform?
Potato (Potato)
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Posted on Friday, June 17, 2011 - 5:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the waitress think that Mary was another emloyee of the cafe/pub?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Monday, June 20, 2011 - 9:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Potato:
Can we call "her" Mary, so that we don't confuse her with the waitress? Of course.

Did the waitress think that Mary was a restaurant critic? No, but she was indeed mistaken for someone else.
Or a health inspector? No.
Or somebody being close to the owner? Like a friend or relative of his? No.The assumption about Mary was not positive.

Did Mary choose the cafe/pub on purpose, knowing that she would get her meal for free there? No. She intended to pay.

Is Mary's skill related to convincing people? No.
To acting? No.
Did Mary wear a particular suit or uniform? No.
Did the waitress think that Mary was another emloyee of the cafe/pub? No.
Potato (Potato)
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Posted on Monday, June 20, 2011 - 11:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Mary mistaken for someone else due
...her general appearance?
...her clothes?
...the way she spoke?
...what she said?

Did she speak with the cook
...before she got her meal?
...when she was given her meal?
...while she ate?
...after she ate?
...in the kitchen?
...somewhere else?

Did the cook speak with her
...before she got her meal?
...when she was given her meal?
...while she ate?
...after she ate?
...in the kitchen?
...somewhere else?

Had Mary ever met any of the relevant persons before she went to the cafe/pub?
If so, was it
...the owner?
...the waitress?
...the cook?

Was Mary mistaken for a particular person?
A famous or at least well-known person?
A relative of one of the relevant persons?
A costumer who had cancelled a table reservation?
A former partner or love interest of one of the relevant persons?

Or was she mistaken for a certain kind of person?
A criminal?
A beggar?

The person who mistook Mary for someone else, was it
...the waitress?
...the owner?
...the cook?

Was she treated badly in any way because of her being mistaken for someone else?
Did she recieve the free meal as a compensation?

At some point, the relevant person(s) realized that Mary wasn't the person (s)he thought she was. Did that happen
...while she was looking for a table?
...when she got her meal?
...when she learned her meal was free?
...during her interaction with the waitress?
...when she was offered the job?

Did the cook tell her that her meal was free?
Did the owner?
Did the waitress?

Did Mary and any of the relevant persons interact in a way while she was looking for a table?
If so, was it
...the waitress?
...the owner?
...the cook?
...other costumers?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Username: Redwine

Post Number: 893
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Posted on Monday, June 20, 2011 - 12:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Potato:
Was Mary mistaken for someone else due
...her general appearance?
...her clothes?
...the way she spoke?
...what she said?
Hard to say... I would say the misunderstanding was caused by the whole situation.

Did she speak with the cook
...before she got her meal?
...when she was given her meal?
...while she ate? This
...after she ate? Possibly also this.
...in the kitchen? Yes.
...somewhere else?

Did the cook speak with her
...before she got her meal?
...when she was given her meal?
...while she ate?
...after she ate?
...in the kitchen?
...somewhere else? The same answers as above.

Had Mary ever met any of the relevant persons before she went to the cafe/pub? No.
If so, was it
...the owner?
...the waitress?
...the cook?

Was Mary mistaken for a particular person? No.
A famous or at least well-known person?
A relative of one of the relevant persons?
A costumer who had cancelled a table reservation?
A former partner or love interest of one of the relevant persons?

Or was she mistaken for a certain kind of person? Yes.
A criminal?
A beggar? Something like this.

The person who mistook Mary for someone else, was it
...the waitress?
...the owner?
...the cook? This.

Was she treated badly in any way because of her being mistaken for someone else? No.
Did she recieve the free meal as a compensation? So no.

At some point, the relevant person(s) realized that Mary wasn't the person (s)he thought she was. Did that happen
...while she was looking for a table?
...when she got her meal?
...when she learned her meal was free? This.
...during her interaction with the waitress?
...when she was offered the job?

Did the cook tell her that her meal was free? This.
Did the owner?
Did the waitress?

Did Mary and any of the relevant persons interact in a way while she was looking for a table?
If so, was it
...the waitress? This.
...the owner?
...the cook?
...other costumers?

You've got the whole situation from Mary entering the place till finishing her meal.
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 21, 2011 - 1:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Mary of the same nationality like the other three persons involved? Anyway, are the three of the same nationality? Speaking the same language? Having the same color?

Did she have any ability in speaking foreign languages?

Did she receive a meal because she looked so poor -- like a charity meal?
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Post Number: 1578
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Posted on Tuesday, June 21, 2011 - 1:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Forgot to ask: Is the title relevant? Did she excel in fishing?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 21, 2011 - 2:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Rbruma:
Was Mary of the same nationality like the other three persons involved? NO! Anyway, are the three of the same nationality? Yes. Speaking the same language? Yes. Having the same color? What color?

Did she have any ability in speaking foreign languages? YES!

Did she receive a meal because she looked so poor -- like a charity meal? Yesish - The waitress offered her a meal in the kitchen, but couldn't go with her and explain it to cook. And the cook mistook her for poor woman seeking just a meal. But she didn't look especially poor or homeless.

Is the title relevant? Yes, in a way. Did she excel in fishing? But no.

Good Q's.
Potato (Potato)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 21, 2011 - 9:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Let's assume that the other three persons speak English, okay?

Did Mary talk to the waitress in English?
Or in a foreign language?

Did Mary talk to the cook in English?
Or in a foreign language?

Relevant which foreign language Mary could speak?
Did she say something in the foreign language which the other person misunderstood? If so: The waitress? The cook?

The waitress was aware of who Mary was, but the cook wasn't, right?
Do we need to figure out why the waitress offered her a meal?
Was Mary some sort of a pilgrim?

The color question:
Were all of the three other ones
...caucasian?
...black?
...hispanic?
...asian?
...other?
Is this relevant?

Was Mary
...caucasian?
...black?
...hispanic?
...asian?
...other?
Is this relevant?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Username: Redwine

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Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2011 - 11:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Potato:
Let's assume that the other three persons speak English, okay? OK, it's irrelevant anyway.

Did Mary talk to the waitress in English? Assume yes.
Or in a foreign language? So no.

Did Mary talk to the cook in English? Assume yes.
Or in a foreign language? So no.

Relevant which foreign language Mary could speak? It's only relevant that she could speak native language of waitress, cook and boss.
Did she say something in the foreign language which the other person misunderstood? No. If so: The waitress? The cook?

The waitress was aware of who Mary was, but the cook wasn't, right? Absolutely.
Do we need to figure out why the waitress offered her a meal? No. The waitress offered her to eat in the kitchen because there was no free tables and the waitress just wanted to help.
Was Mary some sort of a pilgrim? No.

The color question:
Were all of the three other ones
...caucasian?
...black?
...hispanic?
...asian?
...other?
Is this relevant? It's irrelevant.

Was Mary
...caucasian?
...black?
...hispanic?
...asian?
...other?
Is this relevant? It's irrelevant.
Potato (Potato)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2011 - 8:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So, Mary, the waitress and the cook were never together in the kitchen, right?
And Mary had to go to the kitchen on her own, right?
If so, is getting there on her own relevant?
Does finding the way to the kitchen require knowledge of the foreign language (reading signs, for example)?

Relevant why the waitress couldn't take Mary there?

Did, at some point, Mary overhear a conversation in the foreign language?
If so, did the conversation involve her?
Did it involve the cook's false assumption about her?
Did it involve the current work overload?
Did Mary join in the conversation?
Did she react to the conversation (by helping out at the bar, if the conversation involves the work overload, for example)?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 29, 2011 - 1:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Potato:
So, Mary, the waitress and the cook were never together in the kitchen, right? Right.
And Mary had to go to the kitchen on her own, right? Absolutely.
If so, is getting there on her own relevant? No.
Does finding the way to the kitchen require knowledge of the foreign language (reading signs, for example)? No.

Relevant why the waitress couldn't take Mary there? Yes and it's already known - she was busy.

Did, at some point, Mary overhear a conversation YES! in the foreign language? Yope.
If so, did the conversation involve her? No.
Did it involve the cook's false assumption about her? No.
Did it involve the current work overload? YES!
Did Mary join in the conversation? YES!
Did she react to the conversation YES! (by helping out at the bar, if the conversation involves the work overload, for example)? and YES!
Dbw (Dbw)
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Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2011 - 5:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Mary a native English speaker?

Does Mary have a foreign accent in English?

Did the waitress realize Mary is a foreigner?

Did the cook realize?

Was the overheard conversation between the owner and the cook? Was the conversation in English? Was it at least partially in English?

Did the owner hire Mary because of her skill with languages? Is it because of her skill in English? A foreign language?

Was she hired to be a bartender?

Is the location relevant; e.g. is this in Miami or Quebec or Switzerland where multilingualism is very important?
Dbw (Dbw)
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Post Number: 49
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Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2011 - 5:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

More questions... Are the cook and owner both HAMs? Is the waitress a HAF?

Is Mary attractive?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2011 - 12:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dbw:
Is Mary a native English speaker? No, Mary was not native speaker of the language spoken by cook, waitress and owner.

Does Mary have a foreign accent in English? Irrelevant.

Did the waitress realize Mary is a foreigner? At first maybe not, but in one moment the waitress definitely knew it.

Did the cook realize? Irrelevant.

Was the overheard conversation between the owner and the cook? No. Was the conversation in English? No! It was not in the language spoken by the staff of the pub. Was it at least partially in English? Not at all.

Did the owner hire Mary because of her skill with languages? Yes. Is it because of her skill in English? A foreign language? None of them in fact. I think there is a FA.

Was she hired to be a bartender? Yesish.

Is the location relevant; e.g. is this in Miami or Quebec or Switzerland where multilingualism is very important? No.

More questions... Are the cook and owner both HAMs? Yes. Is the waitress a HAF? Yes.

Is Mary attractive? Irrelevant.
Dbw (Dbw)
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Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2011 - 2:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

(Is Mary attractive? Irrelevant. Maybe to you...)

Does Mary know sign language?

Was the overheard conversation between two HAMs? Did the conversation involve 2 additional people besides the 4 we already know about? Are they employees of the restaurant? Dishwashers? Are they customers?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2011 - 3:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Dbw:
Does Mary know sign language? Unknown and irrelevant.

Was the overheard conversation between two HAMs? Also irrelevant. Did the conversation involve 2 additional people besides the 4 we already know about? The number of people speaking is irrelevant. Are they employees of the restaurant? Dishwashers? Are they customers? This.
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2011 - 3:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"(Is Mary attractive? Irrelevant. Maybe to you...)"
*giggles madly* Sorry. That just cracked me up. :D

Okay, going slow here:
Mary overheard a conversation, correct?
Did she overhear this conversation after entering but before going to the kitchen for her meal?
While in the kitchen?
Is Mary a native speaker of the language of the country this puzzle is happening in?
Was the conversation in Mary's native language?
Is the "YOPE" because the conversation used jargon or restaurant-specific slang?

Just to check - because you said "Yes" to overhear - the conversation was verbal, yes?
Were customers talking amongst themselves?
Complaining?

Was there a large ethnic or foriegn population that frequently visited the place?
Did Mary speak their language?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 919
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Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2011 - 3:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Vesica:
Okay, going slow here:
Mary overheard a conversation, correct? Correct.
Did she overhear this conversation after entering but before going to the kitchen for her meal? No.
While in the kitchen? No.
Is Mary a native speaker of the language of the country this puzzle is happening in? No.
Was the conversation in Mary's native language? YES!!!
Is the "YOPE" because the conversation used jargon or restaurant-specific slang? No. Just it was neither native language of the staff nor foreign language to Mary.

Just to check - because you said "Yes" to overhear - the conversation was verbal, yes? Yes.
Were customers talking amongst themselves?
Complaining? Yes.

Was there a large ethnic or foriegn population that frequently visited the place? YES!
Did Mary speak their language? Yes, and that was her native language.

Everything important is discovered. Just need to be put together.
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2011 - 3:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So Mary went to the pub...
And it was very busy...
So the waitress said she could eat in the kitchen/back staff area...
And the cook assumed Mary was looking for a free meal...
And gave her one...
Mary ate...
And upon leaving the kitchen/back area, she heard customers complaining to themselves in her native language...
And the customers were of nationality/ethnic group that frequented the pub...
And she responded to them in their language...
And offered to work behind the bar and get folks drinks...
And her language ability, combined with her proven skill at working the bar...
Lead to her being offered a job?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 922
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Posted on Friday, July 01, 2011 - 4:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Vesica:
So Mary went to the pub...
And it was very busy...
So the waitress said she could eat in the kitchen/back staff area...
And the cook assumed Mary was looking for a free meal...
And gave her one...
Mary ate...
And upon leaving the kitchen/back area, she heard customers complaining to themselves in her native language...
And the customers were of nationality/ethnic group that frequented the pub...
And she responded to them in their language...
And offered to work behind the bar and get folks drinks...
And her language ability, combined with her proven skill at working the bar...
Lead to her being offered a job?

That's basically it.
*************SPOILER**************
Mary, a foreigner in one of the european countries, was hungry, so she decided to have a meal in a bistro/pub nearby. The place was overcrowded and waitress was busy. There was no free tables. The waitress told Mary, that she could have her meal in the kitchen. When Mary entered the kitchen, the cook gave her a meal and started a friendly conversation with her. The cook was surprised when Mary said she wanted to pay - he mistook her for a homeless woman, looking for a meal, as the place often helped poor people giving them a free meal.
When Mary was leaving the place, she overheard a conversation in her native language. The customers complained that they had to wait so long for their beer. Mary responded them and went to the bar to help the waitress with the beers. The waitress was astonished that Mary knew the language used by customers and gladly accepted her help.
In the evening the place went empty, only an elderly man sat at one of the tables. The waitress started speaking with him in the language that Mary didn't understand. Then the waitress approached Mary and said "My dad hopes you'll be at work also tomorrow - those foreign customers will stay around for some time."
Mary was offered a job and - when the owner of this family business heard about her looking for a flat - also a flat to rent.
That's how Mary entered for a meal and ended up with job & home.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 923
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Posted on Friday, July 01, 2011 - 4:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks to everyone who participated, especially Potato for lots of background work & Vesica for solving.

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