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Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 3243
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Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2011 - 4:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Allright puzzlers, here's one you may enjoy. Heads-up: there is a specific situation relevant to this puzzle that happens in several U.S. cities. I don't know if this situation occurs in other countries, but the details can be discovered through Q's and A's. Have fun!

Sean's boss walks into the room and finds Sean lying on the floor. Then Eric enters the room and removes a pen from his pocket. Later, Eric leaves the room and someone outside the building is arrested. What's going on?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Post Number: 1525
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Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2011 - 5:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sean = H/A/M? his boss = H/A/M? Eric = H/A/M? his pocket = Sean's pocket? Eric's pocket?
Is Sean dead? unconscious? sleeping? having a seizure? doing something on the floor?
Pen = the thing you write with? If so, is it a ballpoint pen? fountain pen? felt-tip pen? Or is it an insulin pen?
Noel (Noel)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2011 - 5:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

removes a pen from his pocket:"his" = Sean's? Eric's? someone else's?

Sean, the boss, Eric, the someone arrested all HAM?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2011 - 7:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sean = H/A/M? his boss = H/A/M? Eric = H/A/M? Yes, all 3 are HAMs
his pocket = Sean's pocket? Eric's pocket? Eric removes a pen from his own pocket
Is Sean dead? No unconscious? Possibly sleeping? No having a seizure? No
doing something on the floor? Not really
Pen = the thing you write with? Yes
If so, is it a ballpoint pen? fountain pen? felt-tip pen? It could be any of these, you can safely assume it's a ball-point pen.
Or is it an insulin pen? No
Sean, the boss, Eric, the someone arrested all HAM? Yes
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Post Number: 1358
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Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2011 - 7:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Eric a deliveryman? Who wanted the boss to sign for a package? Wanted Eric to do it?

Can we call the person who was arrested Zander? Was Zander responsible for Sean's on-the-floor state? Did he assault him?

Going back to the first question - was the package from Zander? If not, is it relevant who it was from? H/A/M? Can we call him Moses or her Ezmerelda?
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Post Number: 1359
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Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2011 - 7:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

One more question - is the Geico "pen is mightier than the sword" commercial of any relevance?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2011 - 7:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Eric a deliveryman? No
Who wanted the boss to sign for a package? N/A Wanted Eric to do it? N/A

Can we call the person who was arrested Zander? Sure, I like that
Was Zander responsible for Sean's on-the-floor state? Did he assault him? Yes to both

Going back to the first question - was the package from Zander? N/A
If not, is it relevant who it was from? FA, N/A
H/A/M? Can we call him Moses or her Ezmerelda? N/A
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 3246
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Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2011 - 7:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

One more question - is the Geico "pen is mightier than the sword" commercial of any relevance? None whatsoever
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2011 - 8:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Sean's profession relevant? Is the type of building relevant? Does Sean share the office with someone? Are Sean and Eric co-workers? Does Eric write anything down?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2011 - 9:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Sean's profession relevant? Yes
Is the type of building relevant? Yes
Does Sean share the office with someone? Yes
Are Sean and Eric co-workers? No, good q, and...Does Eric write anything down? NO, another good q
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2011 - 9:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does Sean work in
Artistic / musical / writer
Banking / financial / real estate
Clerical / Administrative
Computer related / Hardware
Construction / Craftsman
Criminal / Questionable Repute
Education / Academic Research
Entertainment / Media
Environmental / Outdoors / Nature
Executive / Management
Hospitality / Travel
Legal Services
Manufacturing / Distributions
Medical / Health Services
Politics / Government / Military
Sales / Marketing
Technical / Science / Engineering
Teaching / Child care
Transportation
Food Service
Other?

Is the building he works in an office building? A shop? A public building?
Any of the following relevant about the building: doors? windows? staircases? elevators? escalators?

Is he lying on the floor in his office?
Does Sean share the office with Zander? If not, does Zander work in the same building?
Does Eric work in the same building?

Does Eric take the pen with him when he leaves the room? Does he do anything relevant after leaving the room? Did Eric know that Zander assaulted Sean? Does Eric leave the room before Zander is arrested? At the same time? Afterwards?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2011 - 9:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does Sean work in...management? Yes, and... Sales? ...also this, and... Marketing? ...this also involved.
Transportation? This is involved but explore

Is the building he works in an office building? Partially, but moreso...A shop? ...this.
A public building? You mean like a courthouse? No, not this type.
Any of the following relevant about the building: doors? windows? staircases? elevators? escalators?
None of these
Is he lying on the floor in his office? No
Does Sean share the office with Zander? No
If not, does Zander work in the same building? No
Does Eric work in the same building? No

Does Eric take the pen with him when he leaves the room? Yes Does he do anything relevant after leaving the room? Yes
Did Eric know that Zander assaulted Sean? Yes and no...
Does Eric leave the room before Zander is arrested? Yes, good q
At the same time? Afterwards? No to these
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Thursday, June 09, 2011 - 7:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

does Eric use the pen for something other than writing?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Thursday, June 09, 2011 - 8:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a shop that sells transport-related things? cars? car parts? train/flight tickets? a travel agency?

Is Sean lying on the sales floor? in the storage room?

The above list of professional fields for Eric and Zander, please.

Did Eric and Sean know eachother? Eric and Zander? Zander and Eric?
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Thursday, June 09, 2011 - 8:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Correction: The last question should read Zander and Sean?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Thursday, June 09, 2011 - 9:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Eric a policeman? Did Eric come to the room to examine the situation? To examine Sean's condition? To interview a boss? Did Eric arrest Zander?
Peter365 (Peter365)
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Posted on Thursday, June 09, 2011 - 2:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does Eric chew the pen by any chance?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, June 09, 2011 - 3:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

does Eric use the pen for something other than writing? Yes

Is it a shop that sells transport-related things? Yes, it sells...cars? ...cars, yes
car parts? train/flight tickets? a travel agency?
None of these though
Is Sean lying on the sales floor? Yes
in the storage room? No

The above list of professional fields for Eric and Zander, please. Eric - Criminal, government. Zander's job is not relevant

Did Eric and Sean know each other? No
Eric and Zander? No
Zander and Sean? No

Is Eric a policeman? Yes Did Eric come to the room to examine the situation? Yes
To examine Sean's condition? Possibly but not primarily
To interview a boss? Maybe, but not primarily
Did Eric arrest Zander? No, at least not directly
Does Eric chew the pen by any chance? No
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Thursday, June 09, 2011 - 7:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Eric use the pen to examine some evidence without contaminating it with his own prints/hair/DNA?

Is it relevant how long Sean has been on the floor?
Was his boss the first to discover him?
Is that revelant?

Is Sean a car salesman?
Did Zander (I keep wanting to spell it Xander) interact with Sean earlier beside assaulting him?
Did Zander steal anything from Seanís place of work?
Like a getaway car?
Did Sean and Zander know each other before the incident?
Did Seanís boss and Zander?

Is the method of assault relevant?
Did he use his fists?
A weapon of some sort?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, June 09, 2011 - 7:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Eric use the pen to examine some evidence without contaminating it with his own prints/hair/DNA? Yes, nice q

Is it relevant how long Sean has been on the floor? Not really
Was his boss the first to discover him? No
Is that revelant? It may be helpful

Is Sean a car salesman? Not exactly
Did Zander (I keep wanting to spell it Xander) interact with Sean earlier beside assaulting him? No
Did Zander steal anything from Seanís place of work? No
Like a getaway car? N/A
Did Sean and Zander know each other before the incident? No
Did Seanís boss and Zander? No

Is the method of assault relevant? Maybe...
Did he use his fists? Yes
A weapon of some sort? No, unless you consider fists to be a weapon
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Thursday, June 09, 2011 - 7:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just a thought: did Zander assault Sean with the pen? Then maybe Zander found it outside? And took it as evidence? Then compared the wound and found it was used to stab/assault Sean? And then reported back to HQ that since it was Zander's pen and it was used to assault Sean that they should arrest Zander? Or was it Zander's pen? Or Eric's? Or Sean's? Or Sean's boss's? Or someone else's? If so, is the someone else H/A/M? Can we call him Moises or her Ezmerelda?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, June 09, 2011 - 7:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Just a thought: did Zander assault Sean with the pen? Then maybe Zander found it outside? And took it as evidence? Then compared the wound and found it was used to stab/assault Sean? And then reported back to HQ that since it was Zander's pen and it was used to assault Sean that they should arrest Zander? N/A (see previous responses to questions about what the pen was used for)
Or was it Zander's pen? No, it was...Eric's?...yes
Or Sean's? Or Sean's boss's? Or someone else's? If so, is the someone else H/A/M? Can we call him Moises or her Ezmerelda? As much as I like these names, the pen belonged to Eric
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Thursday, June 09, 2011 - 7:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What can I say? I watch too many police procedurals! ;)

So...Sean's profession:
Did he work at the dealership?
(Was it actually a dealership? You said said to place that sells cars, but I guess it could be something else.)
Does Sean own the car selling place?
Is he a finance guy?
A service tech?
Clerical staff?
A rep from the car company?

Did a customer discover Sean?
Another employee?
Did Eric?
Was the assault "witnessed" through some sort of surveillance?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Thursday, June 09, 2011 - 8:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Fists are totally weapons. Bruce Lee told me so.

Did Zander use more than his fists?
Did he headbutt Sean?
Kick him?
Tackle him?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, June 09, 2011 - 8:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What can I say? I watch too many police procedurals! ;) Excellent work to discover this element of the puzzle, I'm surprised nobody jumped on it earlier since seemingly everyone watches 'CSI' or another one of the 200 variations of that show!

So...Sean's profession:
Did he work at the dealership? Yes
(Was it actually a dealership? You said said to place that sells cars, but I guess it could be something else.) It's a car dealership and Sean does work there
Does Sean own the car selling place? No
Is he a finance guy? No - we established previously that his job involves sales, management and marketing
A service tech?
Clerical staff?
A rep from the car company? Not any of these. I'm not exactly sure that there is a standard title for his job but it will mostly help simply to figure out his role at the dealership, and I think the main points of it have been determined

Did a customer discover Sean? Yes, and...
Another employee? ...this also, yes
Did Eric? No, at least not initially
Was the assault "witnessed" through some sort of surveillance? Possibly but not relevant
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, June 09, 2011 - 8:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Fists are totally weapons. Bruce Lee told me so. Ok, I've noted this.

Did Zander use more than his fists? He may have
Did he headbutt Sean? He may have done this
Kick him? Maybe some of this too...
Tackle him? Probably, among the other pummeling
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Thursday, June 09, 2011 - 8:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did Sean provoke Zander in some way?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, June 09, 2011 - 9:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Sean provoke Zander in some way? No, but you are on the right track
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Friday, June 10, 2011 - 11:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Any unsatisfied customers relevant?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, June 10, 2011 - 3:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Any unsatisfied customers relevant? YES
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Friday, June 10, 2011 - 4:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Zander confront Sean?
Was he alone?
Had he purchased a car?
Was he upset about the purchase?
Was he upset about an advertisement?
Did he come to the dealership to confront Sean?
Or for another reason?
Such as, to buy a car?
Or shop for a car?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, June 10, 2011 - 5:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Zander confront Sean? Yes
Was he alone? No
Had he purchased a car? No
Was he upset about the purchase? N/A
Was he upset about an advertisement? Yes
Did he come to the dealership to confront Sean? No - good q
Or for another reason? Yes
Such as, to buy a car? No, this wasn't the primary reason that he was there
Or shop for a car? Possibly, but also not the primary reason
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Sunday, June 12, 2011 - 2:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Zander go there to steal a car? To assault/confront/kill someone else? Was he hiding from someone? The police? Eric? His crazy wife?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Sunday, June 12, 2011 - 10:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did Zander come there to complain about something?

did he come there to order or purchase something?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Monday, June 13, 2011 - 1:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Zander go there to steal a car? No
HINT:Nor with the intention of committing any other crime
To assault/confront/kill someone else? No
Was he hiding from someone? The police? Eric? His crazy wife? No to all
did Zander come there to complain about something? No

did he come there to order to purchase something?
Unknown, really not relevant
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Monday, June 13, 2011 - 8:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was the advertisement misleading? did it make a claim which Zander had found to be untrue in his case?

did it mention Zander or show a photo of him?

was Sean responsible for the ad?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Monday, June 13, 2011 - 1:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Zander the unsatisfied customer? Is Zander the one who had to deal with unsatisfied customer?
Was Sean responsible for dealing with unsatisfied customers?

When Sean's boss came to the room, did he expect to find Sean lying on the floor? Did the boss have previously interactions with Sean, which are relevant to this puzzle? Same question please for interactions with Eric and Zander.

Are any other people relevant besides: Sean, Eric, Zander, The Boss, Customer who called the police and Person Sean shares the office with?
Does Sean share his office with the Boss?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Monday, June 13, 2011 - 3:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

REPHRASE:did he come there to order to purchase something?
Unknown, really not relevant
A better answer to this question is "No", but this could lead to a FA. Some of these next q's will help...


Was the advertisement misleading? Yes, in Zander's opinion
did it make a claim which Zander had found to be untrue in his case? No, not a 'claim' exactly, but there was something about it that Zander felt was untrue

did it mention Zander or show a photo of him? No

was Sean responsible for the ad? Yes - good q

Is Zander the unsatisfied customer? Zander is unsatisfied, yes, but explore a bit more
Is Zander the one who had to deal with unsatisfied customer? No
Was Sean responsible for dealing with unsatisfied customers? Yes-ish...can you rephrase this?

When Sean's boss came to the room, did he expect to find Sean lying on the floor? Probably not
Did the boss have previously interactions with Sean, which are relevant to this puzzle? Yes
Same question please for interactions with Eric and Zander. No, the boss had never met or interacted with either person

Are any other people relevant besides: Sean, Eric, Zander, These are the most relevant, as well as 1 more...
The Boss, Not as much, almost all info about him has been revealed except for the "previous interaction" with Sean
Customer who called the police It doesn't matter who called the police, it's just relevant that at some point the police were called
and Person Sean shares the office with? Hmmmm...he doesn't share an office with anyone who is relevant to the puzzle, no
Does Sean share his office with the Boss? No
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Monday, June 13, 2011 - 3:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was Zander not the first person who had come in to complain about the ad?

did the ad say that other dealerships were bad in some way? did the ad make an indirect reference to Zander - to his business? his property? his family?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Monday, June 13, 2011 - 3:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the ad feature a specific vehicle?
A specific financing deal?
A trade-in deal?
Did it offer money for taking a test drive?
Visiting the dealership?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Monday, June 13, 2011 - 3:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was Zander not the first person who had come in to complain about the ad? FA, this wasn't why Zander was initially there

did the ad say that other dealerships were bad in some way? No
did the ad make an indirect reference to Zander - to his business? his property? his family? None of these

Did the ad feature a specific vehicle? YES
A specific financing deal? No
A trade-in deal? No
Did it offer money for taking a test drive? No
Visiting the dealership? No, but you're OTRT here...
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Monday, June 13, 2011 - 3:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did it promise money/a benefit if the specific vehicle was not in stock?
Some other sort of guarantee?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Monday, June 13, 2011 - 3:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did it promise money/a benefit if the specific vehicle was not in stock? No
Some other sort of guarantee? Not a 'guarantee', but something else was promised
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Monday, June 13, 2011 - 4:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What was promised:
Food?
Entertainment?
A gift card?
Any sort of monetary reward?

Was what was promised directly related to the featured vehicle?

Was it an offer to come and try the vechile out in a nondriving sense?
Like those vans/SUVs with DVD players and screens in the back?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Monday, June 13, 2011 - 4:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What was promised:
Food?
Entertainment?
A gift card?
Any sort of monetary reward?

Was what was promised directly related to the featured vehicle?

Was it an offer to come and try the vechile out in a nondriving sense?
Like those vans/SUVs with DVD players and screens in the back?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Monday, June 13, 2011 - 4:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What was promised:
Food? No
Entertainment? No
A gift card? No
Any sort of monetary reward? No

Was what was promised directly related to the featured vehicle? YES

Was it an offer to come and try the vechile out in a nondriving sense? This was part of the offer but not the main point of it
Like those vans/SUVs with DVD players and screens in the back? This also was part of it but there was a much more inviting part of the offer
Gregoryuconn (Gregoryuconn)
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Posted on Monday, June 13, 2011 - 4:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You'll like our car guaranteed or your money back?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Monday, June 13, 2011 - 4:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You'll like our car guaranteed or your money back? No, not this

Note: It may be helpful at this point to re-read the 'Heads-Up' part of the puzzle introduction, and also re-read the description of Sean's job.
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Monday, June 13, 2011 - 7:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

RECAP:

Sean works at a car dealership. His job involves sales, management and marketing. Sean is assaulted by Zander, a person who comes to the dealership because of an ad that includes a promise of something. This promise involves a 'feature vehicle', but it's not a money back guarantee. The ad also did not promise any food, entertainment or gifts. Zander can be considered unsatisfied, but this isn't the reason he came to the car dealership. Sean and his boss had a relevant interaction prior to Zander's visit to the store.

The order of events that have been discovered so far is:

1. Sean and his boss have an interaction
2. Zander assaults Sean
3. Eric arrives and uses his pen to examine some kind of evidence without leaving his own prints or disturbing the scene
4. Eric leaves the rooom
5. Zander is arrested
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 14, 2011 - 2:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the evidence checked by Eric with his pen prove that Zander is guilty?
Did Eric use the pen to touch something in order to check its physical features?
Or did Eric use the pen to take the evidence from the scene to examination?
Is this relevant how much time elapsed between interaction Sean - The Boss and the assault? If so: minutes? hours? days? weeks?
Was Zander already unsatisfied when he entered the car dealership? Or was he unsatisfied as a result of visiting the car dealership?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 14, 2011 - 2:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the evidence checked by Eric with his pen prove that Zander is guilty? Yes, at least nearly proved his guilt
Did Eric use the pen to touch something in order to check its physical features? No
Or did Eric use the pen to take the evidence from the scene to examination? No, not possible
Is this relevant how much time elapsed between interaction Sean - The Boss and the assault? Somewhat relevant, it should help clear up a few things
If so: minutes? hours? Not these
days? weeks? Probably a few weeks
Was Zander already unsatisfied when he entered the car dealership? NO - great q
Or was he unsatisfied as a result of visiting the car dealership? Yes, exactly
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 15, 2011 - 10:36 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did Sean's boss tell him to put that offer into his ad? or did he tell him not to?

did the boss commit to something being available which could be published in the ad but then it wasn't?

does Eric use the pen to move something so that he can see something else it was obscuring? was it a driving licence?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 15, 2011 - 12:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was any relevant item left on the scene? Was it the relevant ad? A paper undersigned by Zander?
Did Eric, with the pen:
- turn something to the other side?
- check if Sean is alive?
- lift something to see what's underneath?

Did Eric need to further examine the evidence to be sure that Zander is guilty? (for example check an item for fingerprints?)
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 15, 2011 - 4:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Sean's boss tell him to put that offer into his ad? Yes-ish, Sean and his boss agreed on the ad
Or did he tell him not to? No, Sean's boss approved the ad

did the boss commit to something being available which could be published in the ad but then it wasn't? No, this isn't the case, but OTRT

does Eric use the pen to move something so that he can see something else it was obscuring? YES
was it a driving licence? No

Was any relevant item left on the scene? Not an item, but...(see below)
Was it the relevant ad? A paper undersigned by Zander? N/A
Did Eric, with the pen:
- turn something to the other side? In a way, yes
- check if Sean is alive? No
- lift something to see what's underneath? YES, this is the best description of what the pen was used for!

Did Eric need to further examine the evidence to be sure that Zander is guilty? Yes
(for example check an item for fingerprints?) YES, this is part of what Eric checked!
Doriana (Doriana)
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Posted on Thursday, June 16, 2011 - 7:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the pen in his shirt pocket? trouser pocket?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, June 16, 2011 - 3:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the pen in his shirt pocket? trouser pocket? Not relevant
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Friday, June 17, 2011 - 3:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the lifted thing: a part of Sean's clothing? an eyelid? a part of body? a piece of paper?

Did Eric remove what he found "underneath"?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, June 17, 2011 - 3:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the lifted thing: a part of Sean's clothing? an eyelid? a part of body? a piece of paper? None of these

Did Eric remove what he found "underneath"? Good q - no, it wasn't possible to remove it
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Friday, June 17, 2011 - 3:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Eric touch with his pen something on Sean's body? Something beside the body? a piece of furniture? something on the floor? something on the wall?
Eric checked for fingerprints immediately on the scene, right?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, June 17, 2011 - 3:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Eric touch with his pen something on Sean's body? No
Something beside the body? Yes-ish, something near Sean
a piece of furniture? No
something on the floor? In a way, explore this more
something on the wall? No
Eric checked for fingerprints immediately on the scene, right? Right, and in a previous answer it was revealed that Eric "lifted something to see what's underneath"
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Monday, June 20, 2011 - 3:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Zander come to the dealership to get what was promised by the ad?
Did Zander talk to Sean first in the dealership?
Did Zander talk to a salesman first?

If Zander spoke with salesman first:
Did the salesman tell Zander that the thing/service he wanted was impossible/unavailable?
Was Zander unsatisfied with what he heard from the salesman?
Did Zander demand to speak to someone "higher" than salesman and that's how Zander contacted Sean?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Monday, June 20, 2011 - 4:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Zander come to the dealership to get what was promised by the ad? YES! But...
Did Zander talk to Sean first in the dealership? No
Did Zander talk to a salesman first? Probably not. If he had, then the events outlined in the puzzle wouldn't have taken place

If Zander spoke with salesman first:
Did the salesman tell Zander that the thing/service he wanted was impossible/unavailable? Good question. If Zander had spoken with a salesman then Zander would have been told that the thing he wanted was impossible/unavailable.
Was Zander unsatisfied with what he heard from the salesman? YES, but he heard it from Sean, not a salesman
Did Zander demand to speak to someone "higher" than salesman and that's how Zander contacted Sean? No, it was more direct than this
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Monday, June 20, 2011 - 8:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did Zander ask to speak to the person responsible for the ad?

was the thing Eric lifted with the pen a piece of paper? a flyer? or a newspaper?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Monday, June 20, 2011 - 9:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did Zander ask to speak to the person responsible for the ad? Possibly

was the thing Eric lifted with the pen a piece of paper? a flyer? or a newspaper? None of these
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 21, 2011 - 12:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Sean aware that the promised thing/service was impossible/unavailable? If yes, did Sean tell it to Zander?

Did Zander speak with the boss first?
Did Zander speak with randomly chosen person in the dealership?
Is it at all relevant with whom Zander spoke first?

Was the assault the direct result of Zander hearing the news that he wouldn't have gotten the thing/service he wanted? Or did something relevant happened in the middle?

Is the promised thing/service:
an item?
warranty?
guarantee?
car service (as checking and repairing cars)?
extra equipment for the car?
another service?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 21, 2011 - 4:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was the promised thing/service something not car-related?

a hot-air balloon ride? a chance to punch out a car salesman?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 21, 2011 - 4:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Sean aware that the promised thing/service was impossible/unavailable? No, but small FA here
If yes, did Sean tell it to Zander? Yes, Sean is the person that told Zander that the thing that Zander thought had been promised was impossible

Did Zander speak with the boss first? No
Did Zander speak with randomly chosen person in the dealership? No - Zander didn't speak to anyone until his encounter with Sean
Is it at all relevant with whom Zander spoke first? Yes, it is, and Sean is the first person that Zander spoke with

Was the assault the direct result of Zander hearing the news that he wouldn't have gotten the thing/service he wanted? Yes
Or did something relevant happened in the middle? There is something very relevant that happened before Zander heard this news

Is the promised thing/service:
an item? Yes
warranty? No
guarantee? No
car service (as checking and repairing cars)? No
extra equipment for the car? No
another service? No

was the promised thing/service something not car-related? No, it was very much car-related!

a hot-air balloon ride? a chance to punch out a car salesman? Not these
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 21, 2011 - 5:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is the promised thing a car?

did Zander think he'd get a car but it was only a toy car?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 21, 2011 - 5:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is the promised thing a car? Yes!

did Zander think he'd get a car but it was only a toy car? No. This is somewhat OTRT though as it relates to the motive for Zander's actions so keep exploring this idea.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Saturday, June 25, 2011 - 5:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm a bit lost (having come in late and intermittently), so I don't have any puzzle related questions, but I do have one that I've been wondering since Whirligig's "Dizzy" connections puzzle: How do you pronounce your name -- like the Greek letters, or Anglicized?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Saturday, June 25, 2011 - 6:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did Zander discover that he couldn't get the car because he didn't fufil certain conditions? or the offer had been withdrawn?

was he offered something else which he found unacceptable?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Monday, June 27, 2011 - 4:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'm a bit lost (having come in late and intermittently), so I don't have any puzzle related questions, but I do have one that I've been wondering since Whirligig's "Dizzy" connections puzzle: How do you pronounce your name -- like the Greek letters, or Anglicized?

Welcome in, haven't seen you since Dr. Wieck's Adventures. Your question is a good one - I really don't pronounce it at all, I usually simply spell out the name (like when telling someone my email address). I guess if I did pronounce it or use a word to say what it is I would say "Ichthus." In the past, people have humorously seen the name and referred to me as "Greek Fish, " so I guess it's interpreted differently by various people who see it...
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Monday, June 27, 2011 - 4:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Zander discover that he couldn't get the car YES, this is what he discovered...
because he didn't fulfill certain conditions? No, and...
or the offer had been withdrawn? ...no, the original offer was still very much valid. BUT...

Was he offered something else which he found unacceptable? Yes!

I was going to post a hint, and your last question provides a good place for it - Zander's discovery that he couldn't get 'the car' had nothing to do with changes in the offer. There was something he found unacceptable about what he was offered, and this led to his actions which involved Sean, and later involved Eric.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Monday, June 27, 2011 - 8:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was he offered a real car? a new car? an up to date model? a showroom car with lots of miles on it?

did he find out he'd have to travel a long way to pick it up?

was it left-hand drive and he wanted right-hand drive? or vice versa?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Monday, June 27, 2011 - 9:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was he offered a real car? a new car? an up to date model? Yes to all of these, but...a showroom car with lots of miles on it?...not this

did he find out he'd have to travel a long way to pick it up? No, this is not what he found out but he did find something out

was it left-hand drive and he wanted right-hand drive? or vice versa? Not this
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2011 - 8:53 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was there anything wrong with the car itself in Zander's eyes? did it carry a lot of advertising?

or was it more to do with the conditions under which he could take the car away?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2011 - 11:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Zander have to buy something else to get the car? Did Zander have to pay for the equipment of the car? Could Zander get the car only with something else, which he didn't want?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 3349
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Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2011 - 3:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was there anything wrong with the car itself in Zander's eyes? Can you rephrase this? I think there's an FA here. As far as there being something "wrong with the car", this is OTRT
Did it carry a lot of advertising? What do you mean by this?

Or was it more to do with the conditions under which he could take the car away? Yes

Did Zander have to buy something else to get the car? No
Did Zander have to pay for the equipment of the car? No
Could Zander get the car No, Zander could not get the car, but explore this!

only with No, he didn't have to buy anything

something else, which he didn't want?
Yes, OTRT, Zander realized that there was something that he didn't want
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2011 - 5:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I thought maybe the car was painted with advertising for the dealership?

OK - not the car, but a car?

he didn't want the particular car he was offered?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, June 28, 2011 - 7:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I thought maybe the car was painted with advertising for the dealership? No, not this kind of thing

OK - not the car, but a car? Right!

he didn't want the particular car he was offered? Exactly!
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 29, 2011 - 9:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

would other people have wanted this car?

was it new? functioning? average size?

was it a 3-wheel car? a saloon? left-hand drive? right? an invalid car? automatic?

had anyone else been offered this car?

or did he not want the car he was offered because he had set his heart on another car? or just that he couldn't choose?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 29, 2011 - 11:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was there a photo of a car on the advertisement?
Did Zander want the particular car pictured on the photo?
Was Zander offered a different car than that pictured on the photo?
Could Zander freely choose: color? equipment? model?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 29, 2011 - 4:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

would other people have wanted this car? Which car?
was it new? The car Zander wanted was new, yes. Is that the car you mean?
functioning? Same as above
average size? Yes
was it a 3-wheel car? No, none of these are involved
a saloon? What's that?
left-hand drive? right? Doesn't matter
an invalid car? automatic? Doesn't matter
had anyone else been offered this car? Several people were offered a car, yes, but explore
or did he not want the car he was offered because he had set his heart on another car? YES
or just that he couldn't choose? YES, this too!
Was there a photo of a car on the advertisement? YES - great q!
Did Zander want the particular car pictured on the photo? YES - great q!
Was Zander offered a different car than that pictured on the photo? YES
Could Zander freely choose: color? equipment? model? NO
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 29, 2011 - 6:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Zander wanted the car EXACTLY as it was pictured in the ad, yes?
Was someone in the car in the ad?
Standing near it?
Did Zander want the car and the person?

Did the dealership not have available a car of the same:
Color?
Model?
Year?
Size?
(picturing a note on the ad "Actual Size")
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 29, 2011 - 7:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Zander wanted the car EXACTLY as it was pictured in the ad, yes? Yes!
Was someone in the car in the ad? Irrelevant
Standing near it? Irrelevant
Did Zander want the car and the person? No

Did the dealership not have available a car of the same:
Color?
Model?
Year?
Size?
(picturing a note on the ad "Actual Size") The dealership had the kind of car Zander wanted, but he was not please with what they offered him.
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 29, 2011 - 8:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So we need to figure out what was different between the ad and real life?
Did the car pictured in the ad exist in real life?
Had any photo editing been done?
Did the ad show features that were not available?

Is the location of the car in the ad relevant?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Wednesday, June 29, 2011 - 8:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So we need to figure out what was different between the ad and real life? Correct!
Did the car pictured in the ad exist in real life? Yes
Had any photo editing been done? No
Did the ad show features that were not available? No, the ad accurately depicted the car that Zander wanted

Is the location of the car in the ad relevant? No
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2011 - 12:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the car from the ad have something more that the car offered to Zander?
Something less?
Did Zander want a car of particular color? with particular equipment?
Could Zander change anything in the car he was offered?
Could Zander come and buy the car from the ad?

Are there any relevant features of Zander, which are relevant and yet unknown? Is Zander disabled?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2011 - 3:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Zander assume that the car would be different than it was pictured?
For example, was the car in the ad shown without doors or with part of the hood cut away to show the engine?

I'm a little lost. If Zander wanted the car EXACTLY how it was pictured in the ad...
..and the dealership had the car EXACTLY how it was pictured in the ad...
...why Zander then decided he didn't want it.

Was the physical car he was offered at the dealership -
A literal 3-D car?
A picture of a car?
Full sized?
Street-legal?
Drivable?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2011 - 3:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the car from the ad have something more that the car offered to Zander?
Something less? I'm not sure what you're asking, can you rephrase this?
Did Zander want a car of particular color? Possibly, but definitely...with particular equipment?...this
Could Zander change anything in the car he was offered? NO - good q
Could Zander come and buy the car from the ad? Yes, but partial FA here so explore!

Are there any relevant features of Zander, which are relevant and yet unknown? Is Zander disabled? Hmmmm...he's not disabled. There is a 'feature' about him that explains his actions, and we've partially uncovered it but there's a little more to it (it has nothing to do with his mental or physical abilities or disabilities)

Did Zander assume that the car would be different than it was pictured? No, he expected the car to be the same as in the picture and it was, but this wasn't the problem
For example, was the car in the ad shown without doors or with part of the hood cut away to show the engine? Ah, good thought, but no. The ad showed the kind of car that Zander wanted, and when Zander got to the dealership he found the same car - this wasn't the problem

I'm a little lost. I'll help if I can

If Zander wanted the car EXACTLY how it was pictured in the ad...And he did
..and the dealership had the car EXACTLY how it was pictured in the ad... And they did
...why Zander then decided he didn't want it.
FA, Zander didn't decide this! He DID want the car that he saw in the ad. This question from a previous post may help:

'or did he not want the car he was offered because he had set his heart on another car? YES'


Was the physical car he was offered at the dealership -
A literal 3-D car? Yes
A picture of a car? No
Full sized? Yes
Street-legal? Yes
Drivable? Yes

To clarify: Zander wanted the car that was pictured in the ad. The dealership offered Zander a real car. Zander was not pleased with their offer.

Some of the famous, time-honored basic lateral puzzle q's have not yet been asked, and I think that may be why we've stalled...
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2011 - 3:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

POSSIBLE ERROR: This question was asked previously:

"Is the location of the car in the ad relevant?"

I answered 'No', but I may have misunderstood the intent of this question. To avoid any confusion this may have caused, here is a better answer: The placement (location) of the car's picture in the ad has some relevance, yes.

If the intent of this question was something else please specify it so we can clear up any other confusion
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2011 - 6:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I meant "Was the car shown on a beach? On a mountain?" as far as location...
Which I guess I could have better asked as:
Was the car in the ad pictured with some accessories that are not literally part of the car but which Zander wanted?
Such as towing a boat?
With bikes on a rack?
With a kayak strapped to the roof?
With special rims/wheels?
With special tires?

Is this based on real life?
From your imagination?
Based on a joke?
Based on someone else's imagination (from a book, movie, show)?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2011 - 7:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I meant "Was the car shown on a beach? On a mountain?" as far as location... Ok - well a safe assumption is that the car is pictured against a blank/neutral background
Which I guess I could have better asked as:
Was the car in the ad pictured with some accessories that are not literally part of the car but which Zander wanted? No, the car that is pictured is realistic and exactly what Zander wants
Such as towing a boat?
With bikes on a rack?
With a kayak strapped to the roof?
With special rims/wheels?
With special tires? None of these apply

Is this based on real life? Not this exact situation but several like it have occurred. I mentioned in the opening of the puzzle that the kind of scenario in the puzzle happens in several US cities and there have been examples of it on TV
From your imagination? This exact situation is, yes
Based on a joke? No, not that I know of
Based on someone else's imagination (from a book, movie, show)? No, at least not that I'm aware of
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2011 - 8:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Not sure what classic questions we missed but here goes...
Time period relevant?
We already established this was US, yes?
Exact state relevant?

Anyone dead in this puzzle?

Anyone relevant other that Sean, his boss, the cop, and the assailant?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2011 - 8:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Not sure what classic questions we missed but here goes...You're about to cover an important one!
Time period relevant? Not really - this kind of thing has been going on for at least 5 to 10 years
We already established this was US, yes? Yes
Exact state relevant? No

Anyone dead in this puzzle? No

Anyone relevant other that Sean, his boss, the cop, and the assailant? YES! Somebody asked about this a long time ago but it hasn't been followed!
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Thursday, June 30, 2011 - 11:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was there a beautiful woman in the car in the ad and Zander wanted to be given a car with a woman in it?
Fionakelleghan (Fionakelleghan)
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Posted on Friday, July 01, 2011 - 4:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is Zander color-blind?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Friday, July 01, 2011 - 10:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is that relevant whether the car was placed on the beginning of the ad, in the middle or at the end of the ad?
Was there any description together with the picture?

Did the placement of the car suggest any features of the car, which it actually hadn't? (Like, for example, from the picture of the car on the beach someone would imply that it safely drives on sand)?

Was any equipment needed to arrange the car for the photo, which Zander mistook for the equipment of the car?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Friday, July 01, 2011 - 3:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

One other person relevant?
HAM? HAF?
Employee of the car dealership?
Someone known to Zander?

More than one person relevant - two? Three?

Any other "classic" questions we've missed??
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, July 01, 2011 - 3:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was there a beautiful woman in the car in the ad and Zander wanted to be given a car with a woman in it? No, the ad simply pictured the car that Zander wanted

Is Zander color-blind? No, not relevant

Is that relevant whether the car was placed on the beginning of the ad, in the middle or at the end of the ad? The main relevance is that there was a picture of the car in the ad, but explore more

Was there any description together with the picture? Great q - YES, but...

Did the placement of the car suggest any features of the car, which it actually hadn't? (Like, for example, from the picture of the car on the beach someone would imply that it safely drives on sand)? Not relevant - the car in the ad looked exactly like the one Zander saw at the dealership, and there were no relevant features of the car that Zander wanted that the car at the dealership did not have

Was any equipment needed to arrange the car for the photo, which Zander mistook for the equipment of the car? No, not relevant

HINT: No equipment, features or options of the car Zander wanted are relevant to the puzzle. The safe assumption is that the car that Zander saw at the dealership either matched the one pictured in the ad or was a close enough match to please Zander
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Friday, July 01, 2011 - 4:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the ad specify the conditions, under which one could take the car?
Did one have to proove any skills to get the car?
Did Zander take something literally, what was actually a metaphor?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, July 01, 2011 - 4:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the ad specify the conditions, under which one could take the car? YES, but not the car...
Did one have to proove any skills to get the car? Yes, in a way, but not the car...
Did Zander take something literally, what was actually a metaphor? No - however, there is one BIG misunderstanding that Zander had when he got to the dealership...
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Friday, July 01, 2011 - 11:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was there only one car to be given away and Zander didn't get there in time?

were there several cars to be given away?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Saturday, July 02, 2011 - 6:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was there only one car to be given away Yes!
and Zander didn't get there in time? NO, quite the opposite!

were there several cars to be given away? NO, only one!
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Saturday, July 02, 2011 - 7:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

so did Zander rush round there and find there was no car ready for him to take away?
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 05, 2011 - 9:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You missed Vesica's questions from Friday, July 01, 2011 - 3:32 pm
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 05, 2011 - 3:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

so did Zander rush round thereYes
and find there was no car ready for him to take away? No, he found that a car was ready...

Sorry for missing these q's, thanks for the heads-up Rbruma!

One other person relevant? Yes
HAM? HAF? H(uman) A(dult) M(ale)
Employee of the car dealership? No
Someone known to Zander? No

More than one person relevant - two? Three?
No - besides Zander, Sean and Eric there is one other person who has primary relevance. Sean's boss would be considered secondarily relevant

Any other "classic" questions we've missed?? No, you've covered it with this set of questions and the one from Shez should also help out!
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Thursday, July 07, 2011 - 10:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did someone else get there before Zander?

did they get the car he would have chosen?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, July 08, 2011 - 3:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did someone else get there before Zander? NO, but this is a goood q and OTRT!

did they get the car he would have chosen? No, but...
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Saturday, July 09, 2011 - 11:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did Zander get there too soon? so he was offered a car he didn't want and the next person would have gt the car he did?

did anybody actually get a car?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Monday, July 11, 2011 - 4:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Zander get there too soon? Where?
So he was offered a car he didn't want While this is mostly the case there is a slight FA to it but you're OTRT for sure
and the next person would have got the car he did? No - to clarify, nobody got the car that Zander wanted

Did anybody actually get a car? Irrelevant
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 12, 2011 - 1:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was there only one car to be given away? Did the ad say so? Did Zander understand it this way? Did he want the car that was in the ad?
Did Zander think he could get this car if he's the first one to arrive there?
Did he expect the car from the ad already gone? and that he would be offered a different car instead?
Did the ad say that a car would be given away for free? But in a way that the situation where it would be given away for free actually never would arise? (like: every 2222th car of the year is free, if the dealership does not sell more than a 1000 cars per year)
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 12, 2011 - 3:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was there only one car to be given away? Yes... Did the ad say so? Yes...
Did Zander understand it this way? He understood that a car would be given away, yes, but...Did he want the car that was in the ad? Yes!
Did Zander think he could get this car if he's the first one to arrive there? Probably so - there was something more important to him than just being the first one there, though, and this is what will lead to Eric's involvement
Did he expect the car from the ad already gone? No, he knew it would be there
and that he would be offered a different car instead? Good thought, but no - the reason he was offered another car had nothing to do with how early or late he was
Did the ad say that a car would be given away for free? YES
But in a way that the situation where it would be given away for free actually never would arise? No - the ad did not describe how the car would be given away, but the situation by which it would be given away would certainly arise and someone would be given a car

(like: every 2222th car of the year is free, if the dealership does not sell more than a 1000 cars per year) Good thought, but not this kind of giveaway

Good questions!
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 12, 2011 - 7:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

you said earlier that Zander wasn't happy with the car he was offered - was the car he was offered not the car in the ad?

you also said that the car in the ad looked exactly like the one Zander saw at the dealership, and there were no relevant features of the car that Zander wanted that the car at the dealership did not have - was it not the same car?

was it only when he saw the car that Zander realised there was something about it he didn't like?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 12, 2011 - 8:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

you said earlier that Zander wasn't happy with the car he was offered - was the car he was offered not the car in the ad? YES - precisely!! It was not the car that was pictured in the ad, and this is very relevant!

you also said that the car in the ad looked exactly like the one Zander saw at the dealership, and there were no relevant features of the car that Zander wanted that the car at the dealership did not have - was it not the same car? There was a car at the dealership that was exactly what Zander wanted, but this is not the car that he was offered

was it only when he saw the car that Zander realised there was something about it he didn't like? Well...Zander saw the car that he wanted, then Zander saw another car which he did not want. The relevant events in the puzzle took place after this.
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 12, 2011 - 8:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it something like: the ad stated "we will give a car for free" and pictured a Mercedes (say), and Zander, upon reaching the dealership, learned that a car is indeed for free but it is a Honda? Is this at least OTRT?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 12, 2011 - 8:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

were the two cars identical? did Zander perceive some difference between them? something which others may not notice? or not care about?

was it actually a scam?

did the car in the ad actually belong to someone else? perhaps someone at the dealership? and it had just been used for the ad, but the plan had always been to get a car in which would be given away?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 12, 2011 - 9:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was it something like: the ad stated "we will give a car for free" Exactly...
and pictured a Mercedes (say), and Zander, upon reaching the dealership, Well not immediately upon reaching the dealership, this was part of the problem! learned that a car is indeed for free but it is a Honda? Is this at least OTRT? Absolutely! Both cars were from the same maker but there was a difference in the cars!

were the two cars identical? No! Not even close!

did Zander perceive some difference between them?
Yes, but it was a real difference
something which others may not notice? or not care about? No, everyone would have noticed

was it actually a scam? No, but Zander thought so!

did the car in the ad actually belong to someone else? No
perhaps someone at the dealership? No

and it had just been used for the ad, but the plan had always been to get a car in which would be given away? No, not the case. The car that was pictured in the ad was available at the dealership but was NOT going to be given away.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 12, 2011 - 9:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So Zander arrives at the dealership, sees the car from the ad and assumes he's going to be able to drive it away?

he then finds out it's another car? had someone else also been offered another car?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 12, 2011 - 9:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So Zander arrives at the dealership, sees the car from the ad and assumes he's going to be able to drive it away? Yes, he at least assumes there is a good chance that he will drive it away

he then finds out it's another car? Not immediately, he doesn't discover this until something else has happened

had someone else also been offered another car? Sure!
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 12, 2011 - 9:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Zander given the opportunity to test drive the car featured in the ad? Only to find out afterwards that this wasn't the car that is offered for free?

Could you post a short recap?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 13, 2011 - 5:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Zander given the opportunity to test drive the car featured in the ad? No, and he didn't want to test drive it
Only to find out afterwards that this wasn't the car that is offered for free? No, he found out at another time

Could you post a short recap? Sure...

Zander saw an ad in the newspaper that showed a picture of a car that he really wanted. The ad mentioned that a car would be given away for free. Zander went to the dealership, did something, and learned that the car he really wanted was not the car that was being given away for free. The car that was being given away was not at all like the car that Zander wanted. This caused Zander to become angry and assault Sean.

The something is relevant, and involves Eric (remember what he did?), and happened before Zander discovered that the car he wanted was not going to be given away.

Also, there's another person involved in all of this...
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 13, 2011 - 7:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Other Person: H/A/M? H/A/F? Can we call Other Person Chris? (Could be Christopher or Christine =D)
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 13, 2011 - 8:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Other Person: H/A/M? H/A/F? Can we call Other Person Chris? (Could be Christopher or Christine =D)
Other person is HAM and Chris can be his name
Grim (Grim)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 13, 2011 - 9:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does Chris work at the dealership? Is Chris someone else who wanted a car? Does Chris interact with Zander? With Sean? With Eric? If yes with the first, is it his interaction with Chris that enrages Zander?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, July 14, 2011 - 3:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does Chris work at the dealership? No, he's...someone else who wanted a car? Yes!
Does Chris interact with Zander? Yes!
With Sean? No, but... With Eric? ...Yes!
If yes with the first, is it his interaction with Chris that enrages Zander? This may have contributed, but Zander's rage comes mostly from something else (which involves Sean and has been discovered previously)

Good questions, and welcome to the puzzle!
Grim (Grim)
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Posted on Friday, July 15, 2011 - 2:03 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

(Thank you very much! ^^)

Was there more than one car being given away? If so, was it Chris that got the car that Zander wanted? Was the interaction with Chris and Zander in person? Was the interaction between Chris and Eric involve the arrest of Zander?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, July 15, 2011 - 3:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was there more than one car being given away? No, only one
If so, was it Chris that got the car that Zander wanted? No, good q, neither of them got the car
Was the interaction with Chris and Zander in person? Yes
Was the interaction between Chris and Eric involve the arrest of Zander? Yes, to some degree it did! But remember what Eric also discovered (as indicated by the puzzle statement)
Grim (Grim)
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Posted on Monday, July 18, 2011 - 12:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the item that Eric flipped over a drivers license? A paper item of some sort? Was Chris also angry at the advertisement?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Monday, July 18, 2011 - 9:17 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was the item a flyer or a newspaper with the original ad in it?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Monday, July 18, 2011 - 4:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the item that Eric flipped over a drivers license? No, and "flipped over" is partially misleading
A paper of some sort? No
Was Chris also angry at the advertisement? No, not at all
Was the item a flyer or a newspaper with the original ad in it? No

Here are some previous q's about Eric that may be helpful...


does Eric use the pen to move something so that he can see something else it was obscuring? YES

Was any relevant item left on the scene? Not an item, but...(see below)
Was it the relevant ad? A paper undersigned by Zander? N/A
Did Eric, with the pen:
- turn something to the other side? In a way, yes
- check if Sean is alive? No
- lift something to see what's underneath? YES, this is the best description of what the pen was used for!

Did Eric need to further examine the evidence to be sure that Zander is guilty? Yes
(for example check an item for fingerprints?) YES, this is part of what Eric checked!
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Monday, July 18, 2011 - 4:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

HINT: By reading the last question in the previous post and thinking about where the incident in the puzzle took place, a key piece of info can be uncovered
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Monday, July 18, 2011 - 9:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I think we had already established that Eric was a police officer? was anyone else in this puzzle?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 19, 2011 - 3:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I think we had already established that Eric was a police officer? Yes
was anyone else in this puzzle? Was anyone else a police officer? No.

The main people are:

Eric - police officer/investigator
Zander - angered customer at car dealership
Chris - other customer at car dealership
Sean - person who works at the car dealership, his job involves marketing, management and sales
Sean's boss - discovers that Sean has been injured
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2011 - 3:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Here are the facts:

Zander saw an ad from a car dealership which included a picture of a car that he really wanted

The ad said that the dealership would be giving away a car

Zander went to the dealership but did not plan on purchasing a car; he knew that a car was going to be given away, but at some point he discovered that the car that was going to be given away was not the one pictured in the ad, instead it was a kind of car that he did not want

Another person, Chris, was also at the dealership, and he had an interaction with Zander

Something happened, then Sean was attacked, police were notified, Eric arrived and did some investigating and Zander was arrested

So...the only details missing seem to be:

What exactly did Eric find that led him to arrest Zander (just think about where this was taking place)?

Why did Zander become so angry with Sean?

The puzzle introduction mentions that there is something relevant to the puzzle that happens in several US cities. This something is directly connected to the something that happened prior to Zander's attack on Sean.
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2011 - 8:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Eric find:
A picture of Zander?
Something that included a picture of Zander?
An ID other than a driver's lisence?
A fingerprint?
A footprint?
An object with Zander's name on it?
An object with a unique identification code that could be traced to Zander?

Upon looking, did Eric immediately know Zander did it?
Did he know Zander's name?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2011 - 8:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Eric find:
A picture of Zander? No
Something that included a picture of Zander? No
An ID other than a driver's lisence? In a way...
A fingerprint? YES, and a little more!
A footprint? No
An object with Zander's name on it? No
An object with a unique identification code that could be traced to Zander? Well yes, the fingerprint and other prints...

Upon looking, did Eric immediately know Zander did it? NO, not immediately
Did he know Zander's name? Not initially, no

So Eric used the pen to move something and when he did this he found Zander's fingerprint. This is partially what led to Zander's arrest...
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Friday, July 22, 2011 - 3:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So we are only talking about prints/physical evidence of some sort,
NOT a literal ID card of any type...yes?
Something more than fingerprints, yes?
But not footprints...
Hair?
Blood?
A tooth?
A fingernail?
A hand?
Some other part of Zander's body?

Did Zander have a previous record?
Was his DNA in a system somewhere?
Was lab analysis required to determine it was Zander?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, July 22, 2011 - 3:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So we are only talking about prints/physical evidence of some sort,
NOT a literal ID card of any type...yes? Yes
Something more than fingerprints, yes? Yes...
But not footprints... No
Hair?
Blood?
A tooth?
A fingernail?
A hand? Close...a handprint
Some other part of Zander's body? No, not any body part or piece

Did Zander have a previous record? Not relevant
Was his DNA in a system somewhere? Not relevant
Was lab analysis required to determine it was Zander? No, much simpler
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Friday, July 22, 2011 - 4:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Zander have some unique feature of his hand?
Such as missing finger or fingers?
Scarring of the palm or underside of fingers?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, July 22, 2011 - 8:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Zander have some unique feature of his hand?
Such as missing finger or fingers?
Scarring of the palm or underside of fingers?
No, Zander had a "normal" looking hand.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Friday, July 22, 2011 - 9:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was the handprint in something wet? or was it the print of a hand which had been in something wet and left the mark on a dry surface?

was the wet substance blood? sweat? paint? ink?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, July 22, 2011 - 9:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was the handprint in something wet? No
or was it the print of a hand Yes
which had been in something wet No
and left the mark on a dry surface? Yes, this is the relevant part, that Zander's handprint was on a dry surface and Eric discovered it

was the wet substance blood? sweat? paint? ink? No wet substance is involved

HINT: The surface where the handprint was found is relevant. Think about where this was taking place...
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Friday, July 22, 2011 - 10:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

a car showroom?

ooh, ooh - on a car?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, July 22, 2011 - 10:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

a car showroom? Yes, and...

ooh, ooh - on a car? ...YES!!!
Kayleetonkslupin (Kayleetonkslupin)
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Posted on Saturday, July 23, 2011 - 6:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

on the car that he thought he was going to get? on the car that was being given away?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Monday, July 25, 2011 - 4:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

on the car that he thought he was going to get? Yes!
on the car that was being given away? No
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Monday, July 25, 2011 - 5:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the handprint on one of the windows of the car?
Was the car covered in dirt or dust or some other substance that showed the print?
(Just trying to figure out how a handprint would show on a car...)
Did Zander have something on his hands?
Ink?
Blood?

You said Zander's criminal history was not relevant, but that something much simpler than lab analysis lead Eric to know Zander committed the crime, but that Zander had a normal looking hand...
So lost...
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Monday, July 25, 2011 - 5:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the handprint on one of the windows of the car? It could have been, or could have been elsewhere on the car. The important thing is that his handprint was on the car.
Was the car covered in dirt or dust or some other substance that showed the print? No
(Just trying to figure out how a handprint would show on a car...) Well, usually new showroom cars need to have that shiny look...
Did Zander have something on his hands?
Ink?
Blood? No

You said Zander's criminal history was not relevant, but that something much simpler than lab analysis lead Eric to know Zander committed the crime, but that Zander had a normal looking hand...
So lost...Ok - what Eric found on the car was almost all that was needed to arrest Zander, there was only 1 other thing which he later found. There was some analysis done, but it was nothing very complicated. You've revealed the important thing, that Eric located and identified Zander's handprint on the car. There is a connection between this discovery and the assault on Sean, and that's what Eric identified that led to Zander's arrest.
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 26, 2011 - 2:23 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Zander become angry simply because the ad had been misleading? or did something else bad happen to him when he was at the showroom? Maybe he not only found out he wouldn't get the car, but in the process of touching it he damaged something (or was accused of doing so), and was told he would need to pay to have it fixed?

Would a reasonable person, upon reading the ad, have had reason to expect that the car being given away was NOT the one pictured in the ad?

Did Zander touch the car (when the print got on it) because he was trying to show Sean which car he was referring to? because Zander was checking something on the car (like a tag, or whether a certain feature was there)? because he was about to test-drive it?
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 26, 2011 - 2:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh, since it was in the showroom itself I guess the test driving thing is out--but still maybe he was testing something out on the car?
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 26, 2011 - 2:30 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh, since it was in the showroom itself I guess the test driving thing is out--but still maybe he was testing something out on the car?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 26, 2011 - 12:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was Zander wearing a ring which left it's imprint on Sean and also showed up on the print?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, July 26, 2011 - 3:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Zander become angry simply because the ad had been misleading? This was the reason for most of his anger, yes, and...or did something else bad happen to him when he was at the showroom? ...this too.
Maybe he not only found out he wouldn't get the car, but in the process of touching it he damaged something (or was accused of doing so), and was told he would need to pay to have it fixed? No, he didn't damage anything.

Would a reasonable person, upon reading the ad, have had reason to expect that the car being given away was NOT the one pictured in the ad? Yes, if they read the whole ad they would have known this - good q!

Did Zander touch the car (when the print got on it) because he was trying to show Sean which car he was referring to? No, but keep exploring his motive for touching the car!
because Zander was checking something on the car (like a tag, or whether a certain feature was there)? No
because he was about to test-drive it? No

Oh, since it was in the showroom itself I guess the test driving thing is out--but still maybe he was testing something out on the car? No, Zander did not intend to test the car or any features of it

was Zander wearing a ring which left it's imprint on Sean and also showed up on the print? Irrelevant

The idea of why Zander touched the car is very relevant
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2011 - 12:00 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Zander touch the car because he wanted to know what something felt like to the touch? in order to communicate something to someone? because he thought someone--or something--had instructed him to do so?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2011 - 4:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Zander touch the car because he wanted to know what something felt like to the touch? No
in order to communicate something to someone? No
because he thought someone--or something--had instructed him to do so? YES-ish, and VERY MUCH OTRT!
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2011 - 10:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did he touch the car as a way of identifying it? like, as the car he had really wanted? or as the car he didn't want?

had he slammed his hand down on the car in a temper?
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2011 - 2:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Are the contests where the last person touching an object wins it relevant here?
Is there some wording to the ad that is relevant?
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2011 - 3:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the ad say something like "get your hands on .." or "lay your hands on .."?
Did Zander take the text on the ad literal (in some way)?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2011 - 3:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did he touch the car as a way of identifying it? No like, as the car he had really wanted? or as the car he didn't want? No to both

had he slammed his hand down on the car in a temper? No

Are the contests where the last person touching an object wins it relevant here? YES!
Is there some wording to the ad that is relevant?
Yes

Did the ad say something like "get your hands on .." or "lay your hands on .."? NO, the ad didn't, but Sean did!
Did Zander take the text on the ad literal (in some way)? YES

Great q's here, we're nearly done!
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2011 - 3:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh thank heavens!! I was running out of ANY ideas.

So Zander touched the car hoping to win it?
Is it relevant how long he was there?
Like he came in, spoke to Sean, and misunderstood...
And then spent the next 6 hours touching the car?
Only to find out it wasn't the car being given away?
And lost his temper, attacking Sean?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2011 - 3:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Oh thank heavens!! I was running out of ANY ideas.
Nice save! Usually when you've exhausted all seemingly possible routes, the one that may have seemed less possible is the right one!


So Zander touched the car hoping to win it? Yes, that was the motive for touching it
Is it relevant how long he was there? No
Like he came in, spoke to Sean, and misunderstood...E X A C T L Y! Only he didn't speak directly to Sean, he heard Sean speaking
And then spent the next 6 hours touching the car? No, he wasn't there nearly that long. I guess it is relevant how long he was there, and it was probably for less than a minute
Only to find out it wasn't the car being given away? YES, this is what he found out, and only after he was touching the car!
And lost his temper, attacking Sean? Yes!

So, Zander came to the dealership after seeing an ad (which he misunderstood), and expected to win the car of his dreams. He found out that the way that a car was being given away was a contest which awarded a car to the person who was able to keep their hand(s) on a car the longest amount of time. After interacting with Chris and hearing Sean speaking, Zander discovered that it was not the car that he wanted that was being given away, and he attacked Sean. After this, Eric found Zander's hand print on the car and then shortly afterward he arrested Zander.

The only remaining unknown is the process Eric followed in order to arrest the person who had assaulted Sean. CLUE: Chris is involved in this part.
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2011 - 6:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Chris observe exactly where Zander placed his hand on the car? so that Eric knew where to look? Did Chris maybe tape a piece of paper over the print to preserve it (and that's what Eric used the pen to look under)?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2011 - 7:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Chris observe exactly where Zander placed his hand on the car? Yes, he did
so that Eric knew where to look? Yes, Eric did know where to look
Did Chris maybe tape a piece of paper over the print to preserve it (and that's what Eric used the pen to look under)? No, but you're OTRT as far as Chris knowing about the handprint
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 02, 2011 - 12:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Chris another customer in the dealership? Did he win the car?
Did Zander overhear a conversation between Sean and Chris? Did Sean explain Chris what to do in order to win the car?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 02, 2011 - 2:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

so Chris had also come to the dealership in the hope of winning a car? did he also place his hand on the car?

had Chris and Zander actually been involved in a "touching the vehicle" contest?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Monday, August 08, 2011 - 5:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Chris another customer Yes-ish, he was there for the same reason as Zander
in the dealership? Yes
Did he win the car? Unknown, but not relevant
Did Zander overhear a conversation between Sean and Chris? No, but...Did Sean explain Chris what to do in order to win the car? Yes, he explained it to Chris, Zander, and others as well

So Chris had also come to the dealership in the hope of winning a car? Yes
did he also place his hand on the car? NO! Great q!

had Chris and Zander actually been involved in a "touching the vehicle" contest? Yes, but the key is the degree to which each was involved!
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, August 08, 2011 - 6:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Chris running the contest? Judging it?
Was there only one "touch-the-car" contest?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Monday, August 08, 2011 - 8:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Chris running the contest? Judging it? No, Sean was doing both of these
Was there only one "touch-the-car" contest? Yes
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, August 08, 2011 - 9:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Chris end up entering the contest? Did he put his hand on the wrong car?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 3401
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Posted on Monday, August 08, 2011 - 9:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Chris end up entering the contest? Unknown. It's possible that he did, and he would have been able to but something had to happen before he could enter it (this is helpful info but could lead to some FA's so be careful)
Did he put his hand on the wrong car? Good q - Chris never put his hand on any car during the relevant time period that is covered in the puzzle
Shez (Shez)
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Post Number: 1472
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Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2011 - 9:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did they first have to identify the car to touch?

did Zander go for the wrong car?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2011 - 3:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Zander put his hand on the car before the contest started?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 3402
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Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2011 - 7:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did they first have to identify the car to touch? Yes, and...

did Zander go for the wrong car? No, he went for the right car but for the wrong reason!

Did Zander put his hand on the car before the contest started? Yes, and see last answer
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2011 - 9:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Zander put his hand on the car early because he thought the contest had started? Just out of touching the car?

Was Zander disqualified? For this reason?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2011 - 9:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Zander put his hand on the car early because he thought the contest had started? Yes - he knew that the contest was about to begin. And actually (here's a hint), if he had simply left his hand on the car and had been the one to stay there the longest, he would have won the contest...BUT, he did something else besides just put his hand on the car...BUT, it's important and relevant that he DID put his hand on the car
Just out of touching the car? Rephrase?

Was Zander disqualified? Well he was arrested, so it's probably safe to assume that he was also disqualified
For this reason? Ah, no. Even if he had put his hand on the car before the contest started, most likely Sean would have called him back and allowed everyone a fair chance.

Don't give up, you're OTRT! Zander walked into the dealership and as soon as he thought he could, he ran over to his dream car and put his hand on it because he knew that it was a "longest to touch the car" contest and he thought it was THAT CAR that was being given away. He talked with Chris, then assaulted Sean, then got arrested by Eric who had found Zander's handprint on the car. To get the final piece, you need to focus on Zander and Chris (and just a little bit more on Sean).
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2011 - 11:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

After putting his hand on the car, did he take it off? To talk to Chris?

Was the car going to be moved before the contest started?

Forgive me for working slowly; I came in very late. By the way, I've begun a spinoff one of your puzzles (actually I blatantly stole your puzzle statement).
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2011 - 3:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

After putting his hand on the car, did he take it off? Yes!
To talk to Chris? No, to do something else (that's already been discovered)!

Was the car going to be moved before the contest started? No, not relevant

Forgive me for working slowly; I came in very late. No problem, glad you joined in

By the way, I've begun a spinoff one of your puzzles (actually I blatantly stole your puzzle statement). Cool! I'll check it out!
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2011 - 9:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Zander take his hand off the car to assault Sean?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 3406
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Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2011 - 3:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Zander take his hand off the car to assault Sean? Yes

So we have basically all of the pieces, we know that Zander was angry when he was told that the car he had his hand on was not the one being given away so he removed his hand and attacked Sean. Zander was arrested for this, but only after Eric found a handprint on the car (Eric didn't simply arrive and arrest Zander for the assault). What's significant about Eric finding the handprint?

CLUE: At this point, it's fair to say that the many other nameless people who haven't been really relevant in the story are now the most relevant
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2011 - 4:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did all the other contestants see the assault?
Was the Zander's handprint the only one on that car?

I don't understand why Eric needed to check handprint if there were people who saw Zander assaulting Sean... I don't also understand why Eric needed to lift something with his pen to get the handprint from the car...
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 3408
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Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2011 - 5:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did all the other contestants see the assault? Yes, but there was confusion as to what they saw - explore this and we're done!
Was the Zander's handprint the only one on that car? Yes

HINT: Many people saw an assault, yet it wasn't until Zander's print was discovered that an arrest was made. The following "thinking out loud" statements are very helpful...

I don't understand why Eric needed to check handprint if there were people who saw Zander assaulting Sean...There may have been some, but think about what goes on when there is an assault, police arrive and start asking, "Ok, what did you see?

I don't also understand why Eric needed to lift something with his pen to get the handprint from the car...Well this isn't nearly as important as the fact that Zander's print was on the car - the dealership had put a cover on the car so it could be revealed at some point during the contest once everyone was inside to see it.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2011 - 8:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the other contestants think the assault was part of the contest?

Did Zander physically resemble any other of the parties in the puzzle? Did Chris? Eric? Sean?

One tiny point -- did Eric lift the car cover with the pen?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 3409
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Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2011 - 8:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the other contestants think the assault was part of the contest? No

Did Zander physically resemble any other of the parties in the puzzle? Very possible and OTRT!
Did Chris? Again, possible and OTRT!
Eric? Sean? It doesn't matter about these guys

One tiny point -- did Eric lift the car cover with the pen? Yes, this clears up the relevance of the pen and exactly what Eric did with it!

Good line of questions. I don't want to cause a FA so I'll add that it really doesn't matter how much Zander resembled anyone else that was in the room, but the idea that he (as the assailant) could be confused with someone else is quite relevant!
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 14229
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Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2011 - 10:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did observers think it was Chris who assaulted Sean? Did Zander's handprint prove he'd been at the scene? Had others not noticed him?
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2011 - 1:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they think that Sean was another contestant, and that he was trying to gain an unfair advantage by forcibly pushing Zander away from the car?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2011 - 12:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did Zander get his hand on the car before they had removed the cover? so that it didn't count?

or had Zander got it right, but he took his hand off the car to assault Sean and so lost the contest?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Post Number: 960
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Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2011 - 2:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the audience see the contestants' faces? Did the audience recognize the contestants only by the car they touched?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 3411
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Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2011 - 4:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did observers think it was Chris who assaulted Sean?
Yes, at least some of them thought this and others were not certain
Did Zander's handprint prove he'd been at the scene?
Yes, more importantly it proved that he had intended to participate in the ocntest
Had others not noticed him? Correct, there were many who had not been aware of him until after the assault on Sean - good q

Did they think that Sean was another contestant, and that he was trying to gain an unfair advantage by forcibly pushing Zander away from the car? No, almost everybody knew that Sean was a representative of the dealership and director of the contest

did Zander get his hand on the car before they had removed the cover? Yes
so that it didn't count? Well it probably wouldn't have counted, but that's not relevant to what else happened

or had Zander got it right, but he took his hand off the car to assault Sean and so lost the contest? Good q, this calls for a recap:

Zander came in, saw the "dream car" with a cover on it, heard Sean talk about the contest, started talking to Chris, put his hand on the car (underneath the cover), was told by Chris and Sean that this car wasn't the one being given away, removed his hand and hit Sean. There were many people present, yet after the attack on Sean there were some who said they saw Zander do it, but many others who either didn't see the attack or weren't sure whether Zander or Chris did it.



Did the audience see the contestants' faces? Some of them did, some didn't, the majority of the people there had come to enter the contest

Did the audience recognize the contestants only by the car they touched? No, not relevant

You guys are all OTRT! Now the key piece of the puzzle is that there were some witnesses who said that Zander was the attacker, some who said it could have been either Zander or Chris, and one person who said it was definitely Chris. Eric was able to figure out who it was by using the pen and finding the handprint that Zander had left on the car. All we need to discover is how Eric knew who to arrest.

HINT: Eric couldn't have made an arrest simply by talking to witnesses because he would have gotten conflicting accounts of what happened. There were 2 relevant people that Eric talked to, then he went in to investigate, came out and made the arrest.
Shez (Shez)
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Post Number: 1510
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Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2011 - 6:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I think we established earlier that Zander's hand had no distinguishing marks, missing fingers or unusual jewellery?

was some car polish deposited on his hand?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 3413
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Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2011 - 8:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I think we established earlier that Zander's hand had no distinguishing marks, missing fingers or unusual jewellery? Yes

was some car polish deposited on his hand? No, not relevant
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2011 - 10:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Zander the only one who put his hand on this car? Did other people see it?
Did Eric speak to Sean? to Eric? to Zander? to other people? other contestants?
Did Eric have evidence that only Chris or Zander could have attacked Sean?
Did he later found out that Chris could not have done it?
Did he just from seeing the handprint know that it was Zander's?
Or did it not even matter whether it was Zander's? did the pure fact that there was a handprint prove Zander's guilt?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, August 12, 2011 - 12:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were Zander's and Chris's hands different sizes?
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Friday, August 12, 2011 - 1:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Eric have any previous fingerprints or handprints of Zander to compare?

Did anyone of the witnesses have a reason to blame Chris, knowing it was not him?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Friday, August 12, 2011 - 2:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was chris wearing gloves so it couldn't have been his print? or did Chris have his hand strapped up/fingers missing/an unusual scar on his hand?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Friday, August 12, 2011 - 3:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Zander the only one who put his hand on this car? YES
Did other people see it? Possibly, Chris certainly did
Did Eric speak to Sean? Yes to Eric? Uhhh.... to Zander? Yes to other people? Yes, including Chris other contestants? Yes
Did Eric have evidence that only Chris or Zander could have attacked Sean? Yes - based on what Sean and everyone else saw it was narrowed down to one of these 2 men!
Did he later found out that Chris could not have done it? Well...he had to consider that Chris could have done it until he found the handprint
Did he just from seeing the handprint know that it was Zander's? No, but after an easy comparison this was confirmed
Or did it not even matter whether it was Zander's? Yes, it did matter, because...did the pure fact that there was a handprint prove Zander's guilt? ...it proved that Zander's hand had been on the car. This piece of info along with a certain person's testimony basically proved Zander's guilt

Were Zander's and Chris's hands different sizes? Indeed, they were

Did Eric have any previous fingerprints or handprints of Zander to compare? No

Did anyone of the witnesses have a reason to blame Chris, knowing it was not him? No, there was just confusion as to whether or not Chris had been the one to hit Sean

was chris wearing gloves so it couldn't have been his print? No
or did Chris have his hand strapped up/fingers missing/an unusual scar on his hand? No - Zander's hands were a different size than Chris's hands.

HINT: Zander eventually confessed to hitting Sean after he was presented with the evidence that Eric had collected, he did not continue to declare his innocence or blame anyone else.
Redwine (Redwine)
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Posted on Friday, August 12, 2011 - 4:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Eric also take Chris's handprint from a car?
Was there a trustworthy testimony, that the man who assaulted Sean kept his hand on this particular car?
Did Sean know by whom he had been hit? If yes, could he recognize Zander?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 3416
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Posted on Friday, August 12, 2011 - 4:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Eric also take Chris's handprint from a car? No, Chris had not touched any car
Was there a trustworthy testimony, that the man who assaulted Sean kept his hand on this particular car? Well there was a testimony that a man had put his hand on a car, learned that it wasn't the car to be given away, then attacked Sean. Eric knew, based on other witnesses, that it had to be 1 of 2 people
Did Sean know by whom he had been hit? NO! Great q!
If yes, could he recognize Zander? Sean did recognize Zander but was not 100% sure that it was Zander who had hit him (he was "cold-cocked")
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, August 12, 2011 - 10:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they just compare the size of the handprint to Zander's and Chris's hands?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 3417
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Posted on Monday, August 15, 2011 - 4:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did they just compare the size of the handprint to Zander's and Chris's hands? Eric did this, yes, and this is what led Zander to confess. However, Eric was prompted to look for the handprint based on what he was told by witnesses and two people who are most relevant to the story.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, August 15, 2011 - 5:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Eric a witness to the assault? To Zander putting his hand on the car?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Post Number: 3418
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Posted on Monday, August 15, 2011 - 8:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was Eric a witness to the assault? No, Eric was not on the property at the time of the assault. When Eric arrived, the assault had already happened and everyone who had been present at the time of the assault was still there; Sean did not see who hit him, he only knew that he had been hit; that leaves 2 people who have been named in the puzzle who had relevant testimonies...
To Zander putting his hand on the car? Eric did not see Zander put his hand on the car or remove it, but 1 relevant person did...
Balin (Balin)
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Post Number: 14283
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Posted on Monday, August 15, 2011 - 8:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Chris see Zander putting his hand on the car?
Did Zander deny touching the car? But the handprint proved that he had?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Monday, August 15, 2011 - 9:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did Chris see Zander putting his hand on the car? Yes, and...
Did Zander deny touching the car? ...yes, and also...the handprint proved that he had? ...yes!
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, August 15, 2011 - 10:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So...

Zander wanders into the dealership, having read about the "keep-your-hand-on-the-car-the-longest-and-win-it" contest. He sees his dream car under the car cover, lifts the cover, and puts his hand on it. Eventually Manager Sean wanders over to Zander and informs him that a) the contest hasn't started yet, and b) that's the wrong car for the contest. Zander, infuriated, cold-cocks Sean with one punch. (Does Zander then leave the dealership? Stick around for a while?) Anyway, the police are called, but the dealership customers aren't sure if it was Zander or Chris (another customer) who assaulted Sean. Chris says it was Zander who did it, and mentions that Zander's hand had been on the car. Zander denies this, and says it was Chris. Officer Eric takes a pen from Sean's pocket, lifts the car cover, and finds a handprint on it. Chris and Zander have different sized hands, so the handprint will prove whose hand was on the car (and thus who assaulted Sean). The print matches Zander, who confesses and is arrested.

How's that look?
Ixoye724 (Ixoye724)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2011 - 3:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

*** SPOILER ***

So...

Zander wanders into the dealership, having read about the "keep-your-hand-on-the-car-the-longest-and-win-it" contest. He sees his dream car under the car cover, lifts the cover, and puts his hand on it. Yes, but only after he has met competitor Chris who is also there for the contest but says that the "dream car" will not be given away, only showcased to the customers and participants. Eventually Manager Sean wanders over to Zander and informs him that a) the contest hasn't started yet, and b) that's the wrong car for the contest. Yes, and this causes a stir because others have shown up thinking that the "dream car" will be given away, so a crowd forms around Sean. Zander, infuriated, cold-cocks Sean with one punch. (Does Zander then leave the dealership? Stick around for a while?) Yes, and employees of the dealership, including Sean's boss, step in to break up the action and the police are called. Anyway, the police are called, but the dealership customers aren't sure if it was Zander or Chris (another customer) who assaulted Sean. It was impossible for anyone to be sure because of the number of people crowded around Sean. Chris says it was Zander who did it, and mentions that Zander's hand had been on the car. Zander denies this, and says it was Chris. Right! Both men have the exact same story, only each one blames the other one. Officer Eric takes a pen from Sean's pocket (well it's his own pen, but anyway...), lifts the car cover, and finds a handprint on it. Chris and Zander have different sized hands, so the handprint will prove whose hand was on the car (and thus who assaulted Sean). And since in both stories the motive for assaulting Sean is anger stemming from the fact that the guilty man already had a hand on the car and then learned it wasn't the car that was going to be given away, the logical conclusion is that the print leads to the guilty person. The print matches Zander, who confesses and is arrested.

How's that look? It looks great! Nice job of putting the pieces together! The only remaining piece of info was that when Zander and Chris were questioned, they both had the identical story except Chris blamed Zander and Zander blamed Chris. Chris was telling the truth, and if Zander had thought for a second he would have realized that he had left some evidence behind.

Whew! We're done! Nice job to each and every one who participated, extra point to Balin for collecting and assembling the solution.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2011 - 3:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Nice! I love these types of puzzles -- wish I could have been around from the beginning.
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2011 - 12:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I wish you could have been around too - it's taken us absolutely ages!

Thanks Ixoye, great puzzle!
Vesica (Vesica)
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Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2011 - 5:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Very cool! Lots of little twists and turns it took us some time to figure out.

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