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Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Friday, September 30, 2011 - 12:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Agatha was rich, but loved Bernie. So Bernie used her weakness to create the perfect murder weapon.

I've not posted a puzzle for ages, so apologies if I don't follow the rules to the letter
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Friday, September 30, 2011 - 12:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

erm, rule 1 - I should have put my ID in the title [Plebeian] - Moderator, can you fix please?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Friday, September 30, 2011 - 1:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

agatha = H/A/F?
Bernie = H/A/M?

was her weakness loving him? or was it something else?
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Friday, September 30, 2011 - 2:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

agatha = H/A/F? yes
Bernie = H/A/M? yes

was her weakness loving him? or was it something else?this
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Friday, September 30, 2011 - 4:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was it a physical weakness? an addiction?

some sort of compulsive behaviour?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Friday, September 30, 2011 - 6:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the murder weapon used to kill Agatha?

Is Agatha's wealth related to to the weakness? To the murder weapon?
Fionakelleghan (Fionakelleghan)
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Posted on Saturday, October 01, 2011 - 7:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Balin, you were faster to the questions I wanted to ask, but I want to know: Was Agatha actually killed?
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Saturday, October 01, 2011 - 10:31 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was it a physical weakness?this an addiction? but not this

some sort of compulsive behaviour?no

Was the murder weapon used to kill Agatha? it was

Is Agatha's wealth related to to the weakness? no, but being rich she could afford protection...
To the murder weapon?only as above, she could keep herself from harm's way

Was Agatha actually killed?yes
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Saturday, October 01, 2011 - 4:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was agatha disbaled? blind? deaf? crippled?

was she in a wheelchair?

did she have an allergy? asthma? a weak heart?
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Saturday, October 01, 2011 - 7:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was agatha disbaled? blind? deaf? crippled?

was she in a wheelchair?

did she have an allergy? THIS ONE! I'd forgotten how incisive some members can be! asthma? a weak heart?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Saturday, October 01, 2011 - 10:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

incisive - moi?

an allergy to something you eat? drink? inhale?

to something touching her skin?

nut allergy?
Fionakelleghan (Fionakelleghan)
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Posted on Sunday, October 02, 2011 - 7:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Plebeian, you didn't ask an actual question. So I'm assuming you want us to ask HOW Agatha died, because the WHY is already there (her wealth). Am I right about this?

Did Bernie know about Agatha's allergy, or did he learn about it accidentally?

If so, were her allergens right there in her home?

In other words, could he make it look like an accident? Did he, in fact, intend to make it look like an accident?
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Sunday, October 02, 2011 - 11:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

incisive - moi? I dream up a diabolical murder plot and the massed minds of LTPF are closing in within 5 posts, so incisive yes. Or diabolical :-)

an allergy to something you eat? This one drink? inhale?

to something touching her skin? after a fashion

nut allergy?YES...
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Sunday, October 02, 2011 - 11:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Plebeian, you didn't ask an actual question. So I'm assuming you want us to ask HOW Agatha died, because the WHY is already there (her wealth). Am I right about this? Spot on. Bernie wanted to inherit Agatha's money, so devised a fiendish plan to murder her.

Did Bernie know about Agatha's allergy, or did he learn about it accidentally? He already knew.

If so, were her allergens right there in her home? Previous posts point to a nut allergy, which in Agatha's case could be fatal. So the items could be in her house, yes. But being rich, Agatha could afford personal chefs and staff to ensure none entered her food.

In other words, could he make it look like an accident? Did he, in fact, intend to make it look like an accident? Exactly true - these lines should be explored further!
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, October 02, 2011 - 7:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the fatal nut ingested? Did it enter the body some other way? Like peanut dust on a pillow that she slept on, thus inhaling the dust (that was on NCIS once)?
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Sunday, October 02, 2011 - 8:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the fatal nut ingested? as in eaten? No. Did it enter the body some other way? YES. Like peanut dust on a pillow that she slept on, thus inhaling the dust (that was on NCIS once)? But not like this
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Sunday, October 02, 2011 - 8:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

And not peanuts...
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Sunday, October 02, 2011 - 8:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was there peanut in a cream, like face cream? or shampoo? conditioner? shower gel?

room deodoriser? fabric conditioner? dishwasher detergent?
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Sunday, October 02, 2011 - 9:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the nut (or some form of the nut) breathed in? Absorbed through the skin? Injected?
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Sunday, October 02, 2011 - 10:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was there peanut in a cream, like face cream? or shampoo? conditioner? shower gel? Not peanut, and none of these

room deodoriser? fabric conditioner? dishwasher detergent? Nor these
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Sunday, October 02, 2011 - 10:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was the nut (or some form of the nut) breathed in? No Absorbed through the skin? Yope Injected? No needles - any investigation would find the marks
Tardigradeparty (Tardigradeparty)
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Posted on Monday, October 03, 2011 - 1:24 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

yopishly absorbed...hmmmm... Was sexyfuntimes involved? Like a contaminated condom or something?
Fionakelleghan (Fionakelleghan)
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Posted on Monday, October 03, 2011 - 5:11 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Were macadamia nuts involved?
Fionakelleghan (Fionakelleghan)
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Posted on Monday, October 03, 2011 - 5:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I posted that too quickly. I meant to add:

Was Bernie plotting some kind of misdirection?

Something casual, not related to meals prepared by staff?

Does it matter what time of the day Agatha died?
Right after a meal?
After snacking?
In the middle of the night?

Did Bernie work his diabolical plan when the two of them were alone?
Or could he do it even if other people were around?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Monday, October 03, 2011 - 9:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

did something touch Agatha's skin which contained the allergen?

was it a liquid? a cream? a powder? a vapour? a gas? a fabric?

is the type of nut relevant?
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Monday, October 03, 2011 - 10:08 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

yopishly absorbed...hmmmm... Was sexyfuntimes involved? Like a contaminated condom or something? not a condom, but definitely OTRT!

Were macadamia nuts involved? Not these...

Was Bernie plotting some kind of misdirection? Insofar as to indicate to any potential investigators that this was an accidental death, yes.

Something casual, not related to meals prepared by staff? If you mean casual snacking, no. See above.

Does it matter what time of the day Agatha died? Not at all. Could happen any time.
Right after a meal?
After snacking?
In the middle of the night?

Did Bernie work his diabolical plan when the two of them were alone? Most likely...
Or could he do it even if other people were around? Quite possible - but fairly unlikely!

did something touch Agatha's skin which contained the allergen? That would be a certain YES.

was it a liquid? a cream? a powder? a vapour? a gas? a fabric? Liquid but watch for FA

is the type of nut relevant? VERY - hence the title. Expecting this house of cards to fall rapidly now.
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Monday, October 03, 2011 - 5:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the nut actually officially categorized as a nut?
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Monday, October 03, 2011 - 7:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the nut actually officially categorized as a nut? I had to look this up - and the answer is NO, in botanical terms (Though in cooking and common parlance it is known as a nut). In fact if I'd known this earlier I could have provided a very misleading though factually accurate answer to earlier posts!
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2011 - 11:37 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is the phrase "it had to be.." taken from an ad? if so, it's not one I'm familiar with.

coconut? chestnut? jojoba?

is the substance an oil? like a massage oil? a spray? something used in sexual activities?
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2011 - 11:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is the phrase "it had to be.." taken from an ad? if so, it's not one I'm familiar with.

coconut? chestnut? jojoba?

is the substance an oil? like a massage oil? a spray? something used in sexual activities?
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2011 - 12:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is the phrase "it had to be.." taken from an ad? if so, it's not one I'm familiar with. No, I simply chose it to point towards the fact that in the scanario I have in mind, only a specific of 'nut' allergy would allow this murder to succeed.

coconut? chestnut? jojoba? None of these.

is the substance an oil? like a massage oil? a spray? something used in sexual activities? It's not massage oil, or spray. You could say it's used in sexual activities, but beware FA.

(I'll add here that I'm not sure what exact component of a nut it is that causes allergies, so nut oil could maybe be used in place of the actual nut, which was what I had in mind originally. However, not used in the way you suggest)
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2011 - 12:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a cashew?
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2011 - 2:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is it a cashew? Nope. I'm surprised at the number of culinary 'nuts' which are something else! But it's only a matter of time before the correct guess - and there's a very specific reason why it must be this 'nut'...
Shez (Shez)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2011 - 4:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is this going to turn out to be a dreadful pun? if so, I'm going to sit back and let Peter solve it
Galfisk (Galfisk)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2011 - 4:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Almond?
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2011 - 4:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

is this going to turn out to be a dreadful pun? if so, I'm going to sit back and let Peter solve it Absolutely not - I heard a piece of information recently which I used to devise a murder plot, and thought would entertain the forum. There are no puns here, it's just that what I thought was a nut turns out to be biologically a seed (in the same was that peanuts are peas rather than nuts). Diabolical maybe - jokey, never.
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2011 - 4:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Almond? Not this one either, sorry. But you're very much OTRT, it's a nut to be found in most bags of mixed nuts in the UK (and most other places I would imagine). Also very popular in chocolate-coated variety...
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2011 - 6:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does it have the word "nut" in the name?

Chocolate-coated...walnuts? Pistachios?
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2011 - 7:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Does it have the word "nut" in the name? YES...

Chocolate-coated...walnuts? Pistachios? ...but not these.
Biograd (Biograd)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 05, 2011 - 6:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would he chew on the nut for a while and then kiss her (hence his saliva being the liquid that is used in sexual activities)?
Fionakelleghan (Fionakelleghan)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 05, 2011 - 8:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Brazil nut?
Candlenut?

Wait, I keep thinking of cyanide and poisons. Is this murder done chiefly by allergy? The nut would not poison everyone?
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 05, 2011 - 8:29 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Would he chew on the nut for a while and then kiss her (hence his saliva being the liquid that is used in sexual activities)? very nearly, remember they are married...

Brazil nut? BINGO!!
Candlenut?

Wait, I keep thinking of cyanide and poisons. Is this murder done chiefly by allergy? Entriely The nut would not poison everyone? Very true
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 05, 2011 - 8:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I think that's engough for a
***** **SPOILER *******

Bernie wishes to inherit Agatha's vast wealth, and decides murder is preferable to continued marriage.
Agatha has a serious, indeed fatally serious, allergy to Brazil nuts. Though being immensely rich she has chefs and staff to ensure she never comes into contact with Brazils in food or any other form.
Being cunning, and having reseached the allergy, Bernie decides to effect the perfect murder. He regularly gorges himself on Brazil nuts (presumably by nipping out for them, not being allowed in the house and all that), then comes home and makes love to his wife. Agatha gets increasingly sick and eventually dies of an allergic reaction to Brazil nuts. Of course everyone assumes this to be some tragic oversight by the staff rather than diabolical murder plot. If he'd injected nut essence or tried to spike Agatha's food he risked being discovered.

It has to be Brazil nuts, as I believe research has shown these to be the only nut allergens able to be passed on through sexual contact.

Many thanks all for contributing, and well done Fiona and Biograd for final posts!
Balin (Balin)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 05, 2011 - 2:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Never heard that factoid about Brazil nuts -- that's just...[insert appropriate adjective here].

Awesome puzzle, Plebeian!}
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Wednesday, October 05, 2011 - 4:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Well thanks! :-)

But as my plot was discovered in so few posts from the forum, maybe I should be a bit less forthcoming with my replies!

As soon as I have another diabolical murder and/or curious fact, I'll post it!
Fionakelleghan (Fionakelleghan)
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Posted on Thursday, October 06, 2011 - 6:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That's really diabolical - the way he "injects" the poison into his wife. I've edited an encyclopedia on crimes and detection, and never came across this one.

Way to go! I'll look forward to your next puzzle!
Plebeian (Plebeian)
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Posted on Thursday, October 06, 2011 - 8:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Wow - thanks again! I'm very gratified with the thought people put into their question lines to focus on the solution.
I had to be careful answering Balin's post about injection - I could have answered yes but didn't want to send people off down a FA blind alley.
I'll have to devise even more outrageous ways to kill people!

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