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Feenwelt (Feenwelt)
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Username: Feenwelt

Post Number: 154
Registered: 6-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2012 - 9:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

She drowned herself and the kids, so he could finally kill himself.
true story
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Username: Sundowner

Post Number: 940
Registered: 6-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2012 - 10:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Dietmar, good to see you back!

Did he want to die? but his family kept him from killing himself in the first place? Life insurance relevant? or inheritance?

My first guess would have been the Schimmelreiter but this is probably too obvious...

So, therefore some housekeeping questions:
She: Human, adult, female?
He: Human, adult, male?
The kids: her kids? his kids? Relevant how many?
Relevant how he killed himself?
Did this happen recently? 20th century? before?
Balin (Balin)
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Username: Balin

Post Number: 16353
Registered: 4-2010
Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2012 - 11:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is he related to her? To the kids?
Feenwelt (Feenwelt)
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Username: Feenwelt

Post Number: 155
Registered: 6-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2012 - 5:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sundowner:
Did he want to die? For the sake of the puzzle, it's a Yes, although one could argue. but his family kept him from killing himself in the first place? yes, in a way Life insurance relevant? no or inheritance? no

My first guess would have been the Schimmelreiter but this is probably too obvious... No, sorry, although the old "Boßeln" tradition would make a funny puzzle, too

So, therefore some housekeeping questions:
She: Human, adult, female? yes to all
He: Human, adult, male? yes to all
The kids: her kids? his kids? yes to all
Relevant how many? no
Relevant how he killed himself? absolutely, yes
Did this happen recently? 20th century? before? 20th century
Glad to read you again, Jens, it seems there are many people from "my time" still lurking around.

Son of Fundin / cool name:
Is he related to her? To the kids? yes to all
Blue (Blue)
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Username: Blue

Post Number: 19
Registered: 1-2012
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2012 - 6:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

was there any health problem? to him? her? kids?

was it because of hunger? some sort of embarrassment? did they owe to someone?

he killed himself by:
consuming something? poison?
hurting himself? shot?
drowning?
jumping?
Balin (Balin)
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Username: Balin

Post Number: 16363
Registered: 4-2010
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2012 - 6:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is he her husband? Brother? Father? Uncle? Nephew? Son?
Are the kids his? Hers? Someone else's?

Relevant where this happened? If so, [LTPF list of continents]?
Feenwelt (Feenwelt)
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Username: Feenwelt

Post Number: 158
Registered: 6-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2012 - 7:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Blue:
was there any health problem? to him? her? kids?

was it because of hunger? some sort of embarrassment? did they owe to someone?

he killed himself by:
consuming something? poison?
hurting himself? shot?
drowning?
jumping?
I am sorry to say: No to all

Balin:
Is he her husband? this one Brother? Father? Uncle? Nephew? Son?
Are the kids his? Hers? they are their kids. "he" and "she" are their parents Someone else's?

Relevant where this happened? If so, [LTPF list of continents]? East Asia
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Username: Sundowner

Post Number: 954
Registered: 6-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2012 - 8:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did she drown herself? and the kids? in a river? in a pond? in a lake? in the ocean?
Did she do it on purpose? accidentally?
Did this happen during WWII? shortly after?
Did he hang himself? shot? stab? starve? freeze to death? burn himself?
Did he die by seppuku? (as you mention East Asia)
Feenwelt (Feenwelt)
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Username: Feenwelt

Post Number: 160
Registered: 6-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2012 - 8:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sundowner:
Did she drown herself? yes and the kids? yes in a river? in a pond? in a lake? in the ocean? in a river
Did she do it on purpose? yes accidentally?
Did this happen during WWII? yes shortly after?
Did he hang himself? shot? stab? starve? freeze to death? burn himself? none of these, sorry
Did he die by seppuku? (as you mention East Asia) neither
Ciaobella (Ciaobella)
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Username: Ciaobella

Post Number: 694
Registered: 8-2011
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2012 - 11:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did he kill himself by introducing a means of death (for example, a weapon or tool)? Or by removing some element of safety or health (for example, removing oxygen or water somehow)? Did he place himself in harm's way?
Sundowner (Sundowner)
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Username: Sundowner

Post Number: 957
Registered: 6-2003
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2012 - 11:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did the woman and the kids die in the same place?
Did they die in their home country?
Did he die in his home country?
Relevant how old the kids were when they died?
Any religious motives involved?
Was he military? politician?
Did he kill himself as a form of protest?
Did he go on a mission from which he did not expect to return? but felt it necessary to go?
Was he shot? (and provoked the fire himself?)
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Username: Rbruma

Post Number: 1918
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Friday, January 27, 2012 - 2:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Did her actions help him commit suicide? If so: morally? (Like, for example "you have nothing to live for anymore, go ahead")

Was he a kamikaze pilot?
Feenwelt (Feenwelt)
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Username: Feenwelt

Post Number: 162
Registered: 6-2003
Posted on Saturday, January 28, 2012 - 12:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Ciaobella
Did he kill himself by introducing a means of death (for example, a weapon or tool)? yesish, but misleading Or by removing some element of safety or health (for example, removing oxygen or water somehow)? noish Did he place himself in harm's way? yope. Sorry to be so vague, these are actually good questions.

Sundowner:
Did the woman and the kids die in the same place? yes
Did they die in their home country? yes
Did he die in his home country? yes
Relevant how old the kids were when they died? no
Any religious motives involved? no
Was he military? politician? good question! he belonged to the military
Did he kill himself as a form of protest? no
Did he go on a mission from which he did not expect to return? yes but felt it necessary to go? yes
Was he shot? (and provoked the fire himself?) no

Rbruma:
Did her actions help him commit suicide? yes If so: morally? (Like, for example "you have nothing to live for anymore, go ahead") yes, this was actually the second reason. The first was another one. And the first reason is what this puzzle is about.

Was he a kamikaze pilot? GREAT! yes! moreover, he was a teacher to the kamikaze pilots

Last thing to find out: What was the first reason, why his wife drowned herself and their kids?
Feenwelt (Feenwelt)
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Username: Feenwelt

Post Number: 163
Registered: 6-2003
Posted on Saturday, January 28, 2012 - 12:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sorry, the correct english word is "instructor", not "teacher". My English is a bit rusty.
Blue (Blue)
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Username: Blue

Post Number: 23
Registered: 1-2012
Posted on Saturday, January 28, 2012 - 6:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

to save herself and kids? from the atrocities of the army?
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Username: Rbruma

Post Number: 1922
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Saturday, January 28, 2012 - 10:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Was there a requirement that only unmarried/childless men could be drafted as a kamikaze pilot?

Is the fact that he was an instructor to other pilots relevant?

Did she want to send a message to other draftees? To prove a point to somebody else?
Feenwelt (Feenwelt)
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Username: Feenwelt

Post Number: 167
Registered: 6-2003
Posted on Saturday, January 28, 2012 - 10:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Rbruma:
Was there a requirement that only unmarried/childless men could be drafted as a kamikaze pilot? yes

***** SPOILER ******

A popular perception nowadays is that Kamikaze pilots were nationalist, fanatic, young people, who were mostly pressed to fulfill their duties. That's not true in general.
There were many limitations in the Japanese marine corps as to who was allowed to become a Kamikaze ("divine wind"). First sons, only sons, married men and fathers were rejected.
This led in the case of the Kamikaze instructor Hajime Fujii to the sad case that his wife drowned herself and her 2 children, so he would be allowed to accompany his learners to the next battle. You can read the story here
.
Thank you for solving this.
Rbruma (Rbruma)
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Username: Rbruma

Post Number: 1924
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Saturday, January 28, 2012 - 11:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Thanks for an instructive puzzle, Feenwelt!

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