[IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

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[IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby irishelk » Tue Sep 27, 2016 11:02 am

Frank pulled his hands out of his pockets, and Landon hung his head in defeat.
Last edited by irishelk on Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Gray

Postby LemonCurry » Tue Sep 27, 2016 12:13 pm

Frank = HAM? Landon = HAM? Are other people relevant?
"Hands" = "Body parts to hold things"? Were the "Pockets" in Frank's clothing?

Did Frank pull out a relevant object out of his pockets with his Hands? Was there a relevant substance on his hands? Something else unusual with his hands?
Is the fact that there were no object or substance or nothing unusual relevant?
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Gray

Postby irishelk » Tue Sep 27, 2016 11:22 pm

LemonCurry

Frank = HAM? Yes. Landon = HAM? Yes. Are other people relevant? One semi-indirectly, several others indirectly.
"Hands" = "Body parts to hold things"? Yes those. Were the "Pockets" in Frank's clothing? Yes.

Did Frank pull out a relevant object out of his pockets with his Hands? Noish. Was there a relevant substance on his hands? Noish. Something else unusual with his hands? Somewhat unusual, yes.
Is the fact that there were no object or substance or nothing unusual relevant? No, it's a "something" more than a "nothing".
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby GalFisk » Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:27 am

Relevant how the hands looked? Is a skin condition relevant? Condition of the hands in general relevant? A medical condition? Did the sight of Frank's ands proce Landon wrong about something? Prove Landon's guilt in something? WAG: was Landon trying to do a Sherlock Holmes and deduce Frank's profession (or something else about him) without seeing his hands?
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby irishelk » Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:02 pm

GalFisk

Relevant how the hands looked? Yes. Is a skin condition relevant? No. Condition of the hands in general relevant? Hard to say...something about them is relevant. A medical condition? No. Did the sight of Frank's hands prove Landon wrong about something? Yes. Prove Landon's guilt in something? YES.
WAG: was Landon trying to do a Sherlock Holmes and deduce Frank's profession (or something else about him) without seeing his hands? No with a very slight ish. I love your WAGs today.
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby GalFisk » Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:13 pm

Were the hands injured? Diseased? Dirty? Relevantly tan? Untanned? Worn? Calloused? Delicate? Different?
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby Alhucema » Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:08 pm

Was any part of the hands missing?
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby jumpingjacks » Fri Sep 30, 2016 2:41 pm

Had Landon been trying to frame Frank for something? The something that Landon was guilty of? Did Landon already know he (Landon) was guilty prior to seeing Frank's hands? Did something about Frank's hands prove that Frank would be incapable of doing something?
Are the pockets relevant? Was there anything relevant in the pockets? Would the puzzle still work if Frank had taken his hands out from behind his back?
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby JenBurdoo » Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:05 pm

Were they playing a game (or a bet) that involved guessing what was in Frank's pockets? Or whether Landon could predict an action of Frank's?
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby irishelk » Sun Oct 02, 2016 1:00 pm

GalFisk

Were the hands injured? Diseased? Dirty? Relevantly tan? Untanned? Worn? Calloused? Delicate? Different? No to all.


Alhucema

Was any part of the hands missing? No.

jumpingjacks

Had Landon been trying to frame Frank for something? Not frame, but there is a level of accusation going on.
The something that Landon was guilty of? No. Did Landon already know he (Landon) was guilty prior to seeing Frank's hands? Yes. Did something about Frank's hands prove that Frank would be incapable of doing something? Yes!
Are the pockets relevant? Not really. Was there anything relevant in the pockets? Sort of. See below. Would the puzzle still work if Frank had taken his hands out from behind his back? Yes, within the story the pockets drive to point home even more forcibly. But behind he back would work.

Note: for the earlier question--
Did Frank pull out a relevant object out of his pockets with his Hands? Noish.
It's definitely an "ish" and not a No. Relates to one of jumpingjacks' questions.



JenBurdoo

Were they playing a game (or a bet) that involved guessing what was in Frank's pockets? No. Or whether Landon could predict an action of Frank's? No.
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby Balin » Sun Oct 02, 2016 1:10 pm

Is Landon's specific crime relevant? Was the crime committed against Frank?
Is there anything unusual or abnormal about Frank's hands? Is he missing at least one finger? Does he have at least one extra finger?
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby jumpingjacks » Sun Oct 02, 2016 6:20 pm

Were Frank's hands coated with something? A substance that had been in his pockets? Were they prosthetic hands?
Is this an accurate chain of events -
Landon thinks Frank has done something bad?
Landon does something bad in response?
Landon accuses Frank?
Frank reveals his hands, which prove that Frank couldn't possibly have done the bad thing?
This means Landon has done his bad thing for no reason?
And so he hangs his head in defeat as Frank now has the moral high ground?
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby Twilightseeker » Mon Oct 03, 2016 9:27 am

Is Frank wearing a ring? a wedding ring? Is he wearing gloves? A bracelet? Is there some relevant THING on one or both of his hands?
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby JenBurdoo » Mon Oct 03, 2016 1:59 pm

Or some relevant thing NOT on one of his hands?

I suspect I know this one, PM to follow.
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby irishelk » Tue Oct 11, 2016 4:51 pm

Balin

Is Landon's specific crime relevant? It might help, exact specifics not needed. Was the crime committed against Frank? No.
Is there anything unusual or abnormal about Frank's hands? Not really. Is he missing at least one finger? No. Does he have at least one extra finger? No.


jumpingjacks

Were Frank's hands coated with something? Yesish, see below. A substance that had been in his pockets? Were they prosthetic hands? No.
Is this an accurate chain of events -
Landon thinks Frank has done something bad? Yope.
Landon does something bad in response? No.
Landon accuses Frank? This does happen.
Frank reveals his hands, which prove that Frank couldn't possibly have done the bad thing? Yes.
This means Landon has done his bad thing for no reason? No, switch the order of their respective bad things.
And so he hangs his head in defeat as Frank now has the moral high ground? This is true.


Twilightseeker

Is Frank wearing a ring? No. a wedding ring? No. Is he wearing gloves? YES. A bracelet? No. Is there some relevant THING on one or both of his hands? Just gloves.


JenBurdoo

Or some relevant thing NOT on one of his hands? No.

I suspect I know this one, PM to follow. You do! Good thinking.
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby Balin » Tue Oct 11, 2016 6:07 pm

Specific type of gloves relevant?
Did Frank always wear gloves? Was he wearing gloves at the time the crime was committed?
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby GalFisk » Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:38 pm

Fingerprints relevant?
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby irishelk » Sun Oct 23, 2016 4:33 pm

Balin

Specific type of gloves relevant? No.
Did Frank always wear gloves? No. Was he wearing gloves at the time the crime was committed? No.


GalFisk

Fingerprints relevant? Yes.
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby LemonCurry » Tue Oct 25, 2016 1:50 pm

Is something about the gloves relevant? Had Landon worn them?
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby irishelk » Tue Oct 25, 2016 2:04 pm

LemonCurry

Is something about the gloves relevant? Like a characteristic of them? No, only that they're there. Had Landon worn them? No.
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby LemonCurry » Tue Oct 25, 2016 3:26 pm

Could the offense have been committed only barehanded? Or had the perpetrator left his gloves there?
Did the offense happen seconds? minutes? hours? days? longer before the puzzle situation?
Is weather/temperature relevant?
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby GalFisk » Tue Oct 25, 2016 4:45 pm

Did someone expect to see: no gloves? Dirty gloves? Damaged gloves? Worn gloves? Gloves but not on hands? Type of gloves relevant? Physical state of the gloves?
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby irishelk » Tue Oct 25, 2016 5:31 pm

LemonCurry

Could the offense have been committed only barehanded? If you mean Landon's crime, no. But maybe explore. Or had the perpetrator left his gloves there? No.
Did the offense happen seconds? minutes? hours? days? This, exact timing irrelevant. longer before the puzzle situation?
Is weather/temperature relevant? No.


GalFisk

Did someone expect to see: no gloves? Landon did not expect to see gloves, yes.
Dirty gloves? Damaged gloves? Worn gloves? Gloves but not on hands? Type of gloves relevant? Physical state of the gloves? No to rest.
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby GalFisk » Wed Oct 26, 2016 6:40 am

Did Landon try to blame Frank? Frame Frank?
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby Balin » Wed Oct 26, 2016 1:02 pm

Does Frank always wear those gloves? Has he been wearing them since the crime was committed?
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby irishelk » Wed Oct 26, 2016 3:02 pm

GalFisk

Did Landon try to blame Frank? For something, yes. Frame Frank? I would say "accuse Frank." But explore the idea of framing.


Balin

Does Frank always wear those gloves? No. Has he been wearing them since the crime was committed? No, but OTRTish.
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby Balin » Thu Oct 27, 2016 2:30 pm

Was Landon trying to deflect the blame? Was anyone already blaming Landon?
Had Landon committed a crime? Had Frank, for that matter? Had anyone else?
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby GalFisk » Thu Oct 27, 2016 7:06 pm

Did Landon leave fingerprints? Leave false fingerprints?
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby irishelk » Sun Oct 30, 2016 4:46 pm

Balin

Was Landon trying to deflect the blame? Very much so. Was anyone already blaming Landon? Yes.
Had Landon committed a crime? Yes. Had Frank, for that matter? No. Had anyone else? No.


GalFisk

Did Landon leave fingerprints? Not relevantly. Leave false fingerprints? No.
Last edited by irishelk on Sun Oct 30, 2016 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby Balin » Sun Oct 30, 2016 4:59 pm

Crime: murder? Did it involve harming another person? Theft? Financial gain for the criminal(s)?
Did Landon and "anyone else" commit the same crime? Together? If so, did the accomplice(s) blame Landon? Frank?
"Anyone else": H? A? M? One person? More?
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby irishelk » Sun Oct 30, 2016 5:05 pm

Balin

Crime: murder? Yes. Did it involve harming another person? Theft? And yes (this is more relevant for the puzzle). Financial gain for the criminal(s)? That was the intent.

Sorry, total ***TYPO*** on my part
Had anyone else [committed a crime]? NO.


Did Landon and "anyone else" commit the same crime? Together? If so, did the accomplice(s) blame Landon? Frank? Landon is the only criminal, sorry.
"Anyone else": H? A? M? One person? More? But there is one other relevant person, HAF.
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby Balin » Sun Oct 30, 2016 11:06 pm

Relevant HAF (can we call her Elaine?): is she related to Landon? Frank? Romantically involved with Landon? Frank? Is she the victim of the murder? The victim of the theft? Are her hands somehow relevant?
Was the crime a robbery turned murder? Was it set up to look like a robbery turned murder?
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby irishelk » Mon Oct 31, 2016 12:48 am

Balin

Relevant HAF (can we call her Elaine?) Sure.: is she related to Landon? Frank? Romantically involved with Landon? Frank? No to all. Is she the victim of the murder? No. The victim of the theft? No. Are her hands somehow relevant? No.
Was the crime a robbery turned murder? In the story, it's intentional murder, but it could have been. Was it set up to look like a robbery turned murder? No.
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby LemonCurry » Mon Nov 07, 2016 1:05 pm

So Landon had committed murder and theft? And he accused Frank of the theft?
Is Elaine a witness? Had she seen someone barehanded?
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby irishelk » Tue Nov 08, 2016 12:41 pm

LemonCurry

So Landon had committed murder and theft? Yes. And he accused Frank of the theft? Not Frank, no.
Is Elaine a witness? No. Had she seen someone barehanded? No.
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby Balin » Tue Nov 08, 2016 1:01 pm

Did Landon accuse someone else of the theft? Elaine?
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby irishelk » Tue Nov 08, 2016 1:40 pm

Balin

Did Landon accuse someone else of the theft? Elaine? YES.
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby Balin » Tue Nov 08, 2016 5:55 pm

Is Elaine's occupation relevant? Does she have the same job as Frank? As Landon? Are any of their occupations relevant?
Is Elaine wearing gloves? Was Elaine wearing gloves at all?
Relevant why Landon accused Elaine? Had he specifically planned to accuse her? Was he planning to accuse anyone at all?
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby irishelk » Wed Nov 09, 2016 2:03 pm

Balin

Is Elaine's occupation relevant? No. Does she have the same job as Frank? As Landon? Are any of their occupations relevant? Only Frank's.
Is Elaine wearing gloves? No. Was Elaine wearing gloves at all? No.
Relevant why Landon accused Elaine? Not her specifically. Had he specifically planned to accuse her? Yes. Was he planning to accuse anyone at all?
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby LemonCurry » Wed Nov 09, 2016 3:14 pm

Has Landon accused Frank of lying? Of covering Elaine? Of assisting Elaine with the theft?
Is Frank required to wear gloves on the Job?
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby irishelk » Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:12 pm

LemonCurry

Has Landon accused Frank of lying? YES. Of covering Elaine? Perhaps indirectly. Of assisting Elaine with the theft? No.
Is Frank required to wear gloves on the Job? No.
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby LemonCurry » Thu Nov 10, 2016 2:23 pm

Is Frank a witness? Has he seen Frank in the act? Or with the stolen property? Or has he destroyed Landon's alibi?
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby irishelk » Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:08 pm

LemonCurry

Is Frank a witness? Yope, explore. Has he seen Frank in the act? You mean Landon? Not in the act of murder or theft, but... Or with the stolen property? Yesish, explore. Or has he destroyed Landon's alibi? No.
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby LemonCurry » Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:25 pm

Relevant what Landon had stolen? Money? An object? A document or piece of information?
Had he stolen the item from Frank? From Frank's workplace?
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby irishelk » Sun Nov 13, 2016 12:50 am

LemonCurry

Relevant what Landon had stolen? Yope, could be many things. Money? No. An object? Yes. A document or piece of information? It could be this. I'll tell you because it doesn't really matter, it's a piece of art.
Had he stolen the item from Frank? No. From Frank's workplace? No.
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby GalFisk » Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:30 am

Does someone claim that Frank is a witness? A helper? The thief? Does Frank say he had nothing to do with it? Relevant why he's wearling gloves? What kind they are? Would it work the same if he didn't wear them, but pulled them out of his pockets?
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby irishelk » Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:02 pm

GalFisk

Does someone claim that Frank is a witness? Kind of. A helper? No. The thief? No.
Does Frank say he had nothing to do with it? Not exactly. Relevant why he's wearing gloves? Yes. What kind they are? No. Would it work the same if he didn't wear them, but pulled them out of his pockets? No, good question.
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby irishelk » Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:42 pm

************************RECAP

Landon has committed a theft and a murder (murder not really relevant to this puzzle--just raises the stakes). He has stolen a piece of art. He is accusing Elaine of committing these crimes. He also blames/accuses Frank of something, but not of the theft or the murder: something involving lying. Landon is deflecting blame.

After these accusations, Frank pulls his hands out of his pockets, revealing that he is wearing gloves and therefore could not have done a certain bad thing. Landon hangs his head in defeat. Nothing about the gloves is relevant except that Frank is wearing them.

Fingerprints are relevant, but Landon left no relevant fingerprints. Knowing Frank's profession might help. Frank could be considered a witness in a vague sense, though he did not see the act of the theft or the murder. See LemonCurry's question:
Has Frank seen Landon with the stolen property? Yesish, explore.

This one is really complicated and you all are asking really good questions. I think it's about 3/4 done.
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby GalFisk » Fri Nov 25, 2016 3:52 pm

Does Landon hope that by pulling his hands out fo his pockets, Frank will reveal something? Does Frank often wear gloves? Is Landon accusing Frank of having done this thing seconds Before? Minutes? Hours? Days? Weeks? Months? Years? Does Landon Think something else will be on Frank's hands? Has Landon planted anything relevant in Frank's pockets? Or somewhere else?
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby LemonCurry » Fri Nov 25, 2016 5:26 pm

Is it obvious to everyone when the artwork was stolen? Is forgery relevant? Is someone accused of having replaced the artwork with a fake one?

Has Landon sold the artwork? Was it valuable? Has Frank noticed that Landon must have made money somehow?
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby irishelk » Tue Nov 29, 2016 1:11 pm

GalFisk

Does Landon hope that by pulling his hands out of his pockets, Frank will reveal something? No. Does Frank often wear gloves? No.
Is Landon accusing Frank of having done this thing seconds Before? Yes. Minutes? Maybe a minute. Hours? Days? Weeks? Months? Years? No to rest.
Does Landon Think something else will be on Frank's hands? No. Has Landon planted anything relevant in Frank's pockets? No. Or somewhere else? YES.


LemonCurry

Is it obvious to everyone when the artwork was stolen? Everyone present knows when it was stolen, yes. Is forgery relevant? No. Is someone accused of having replaced the artwork with a fake one? No.

Has Landon sold the artwork? No. Was it valuable? Irr. Has Frank noticed that Landon must have made money somehow? No.
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby Balin » Tue Nov 29, 2016 4:25 pm

Did the thing Landon planted have Frank's fingerprints on it?
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby irishelk » Tue Dec 06, 2016 12:38 am

Balin

Did the thing Landon planted have Frank's fingerprints on it? Yes indeed.
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby Balin » Tue Dec 06, 2016 2:14 am

Was the planted thing used to commit the crime? Was it some type of weapon? Or tool?
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby irishelk » Tue Dec 06, 2016 3:21 pm

Balin

Was the planted thing used to commit the crime? No. Was it some type of weapon? No. Or tool? No.
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby GalFisk » Wed Dec 07, 2016 3:41 pm

Was it part of the building? Such as a door handle?
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby irishelk » Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:54 pm

GalFisk

Was it part of the building? No. Such as a door handle? No.
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby Balin » Wed Dec 14, 2016 2:46 am

Did the planted thing belong to Frank? To Landon? To Elaine?
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby irishelk » Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:07 pm

Balin

Did the planted thing belong to Frank? To Landon? To Elaine? No to all, except that it was in Landon's possession at one point.
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby GalFisk » Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:28 am

Is the planted thing cutlery? Is it made from: paper? Plastic? Glass? Ceramics? Metal? Leather? Wood? Clay? Is it a piece of packaging?
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby irishelk » Fri Dec 23, 2016 12:51 pm

GalFisk

Is the planted thing cutlery? Is it made from: paper? Plastic? Glass? Ceramics? Metal? Leather? Wood? Clay? Mostly wood and either paper or fabric. Is it a piece of packaging? Yope, explore.
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby GalFisk » Sun Dec 25, 2016 8:22 am

Is it a container? Is it meant to be carried? Is the paper or fabric covering the wood? Is it hollow? Is it bigger than a breadbox? Is it damaged or broken?
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby irishelk » Sun Dec 25, 2016 2:27 pm

GalFisk

Is it a container? Is it meant to be carried? Is the paper or fabric covering the wood? Yesish. Is it hollow? Is it bigger than a breadbox? Possibly, exact size irr. Is it damaged or broken? No to rest.

Hint: it is mentioned in the Recap.
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby Balin » Sun Dec 25, 2016 4:10 pm

Is the object the piece of art itself?
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby irishelk » Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:21 am

Balin

Is the object the piece of art itself? Yes.
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby irishelk » Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:18 pm

I am fully ready to $p0i1 this one if no one else is working on it. Here's an updated RECAP with some hints sprinkled in.

************************RECAP 2

Landon has committed a theft and a murder. He has stolen a piece of art. He then planted the art in order to accuse Elaine of committing these crimes.

He also blames/accuses Frank of something, but not of the theft or the murder: something involving lying. By doing this, Landon is deflecting blame. The thing Frank is being accused of also involves planting something, in a sense.

After these accusations, Frank pulls his hands out of his pockets, revealing that he is wearing gloves and therefore could not have done a certain bad thing. Landon hangs his head in defeat. Nothing about the gloves is relevant except that Frank is wearing them.

Fingerprints are VERY relevant, but Landon left no relevant fingerprints. Frank could be considered a witness to the theft in a sense, though he did not see the act of the theft or the murder. See LemonCurry's question:
Has Frank seen Landon with the stolen property? Yesish, explore.

Figure out Frank's profession, and figure out exactly what Landon accuses Frank of.
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby GalFisk » Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:37 pm

Is Frank's profession related to art? Law enforcement? Crime? Theft? Glove-wearing? ;) Security? Carrying stuff? Did Frank touch the artwork? If so: with gloves? Without? Did Land on try to trick Frank? Was Frank supposed to have access to the artwork? Was Landon not? WAG: Did Landon tell Frank that the artwork was hanging crooked, and ask him to right it, hoping he'd leave fingerprints which later would be incriminating?
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby irishelk » Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:33 pm

GalFisk

Is Frank's profession related to art? Law enforcement? Yes. Crime? Yes. Theft? Glove-wearing? ;) Security? Carrying stuff? No to rest. Unlike J.P. Pruitt, he was not the world's leading hand model. :mrgreen:

Did Frank touch the artwork? Yes! If so: with gloves? Without? This. Did Land on try to trick Frank? At one point, yes, but might be misleading. Was Frank supposed to have access to the artwork? No, he was not, for SVV of "supposed to." Was Landon not? Yesish. WAG: Did Landon tell Frank that the artwork was hanging crooked, and ask him to right it, hoping he'd leave fingerprints which later would be incriminating? No, good idea.
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby GalFisk » Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:47 pm

Is he a cop? Detective? Investigator? Guard? Was Frank tricked into touching the artwork? Was Landon claiming Frank touched it later than he Did?
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby irishelk » Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:13 pm

GalFisk

Is he a cop? Detective? This. Investigator? Guard?

Was Frank tricked into touching the artwork? No. Was Landon claiming Frank touched it later than he Did? YES, good q!
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby Balin » Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:58 pm

Did Frank relevantly touch the artwork before the theft? After?
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby irishelk » Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:05 pm

Balin

Did Frank relevantly touch the artwork before the theft? After? After.
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby LemonCurry » Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:07 pm

Was Frank accused of removing fingerprints from the artwork?
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby irishelk » Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:18 pm

LemonCurry

Was Frank accused of removing fingerprints from the artwork? No.
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby Balin » Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:46 pm

This was caught below a load of solved puzzles; I'd forgotten it was still going... :oops:

Did Landon claim that Frank had planted the artwork somewhere relevant? Among Landon's possessions?
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby irishelk » Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:46 pm

Balin

This was caught below a load of solved puzzles; I'd forgotten it was still going... :oops: I think it's dragging on a bit long. :lol: But you're so close!

Did Landon claim that Frank had planted the artwork somewhere relevant? No, in fact the opposite. Among Landon's possessions? No.
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby Balin » Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:54 am

The opposite - as in Frank claimed that Landon had planted the artwork somewhere relevant?
Have we established where the stolen artwork was found? If so, was it among Frank's possessions? Landon's? Elaine's?
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby irishelk » Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:35 am

Balin

The opposite - as in Frank claimed that Landon had planted the artwork somewhere relevant? Yes, and that was in fact the case.
Have we established where the stolen artwork was found? I can't remember. XD If so, was it among Frank's possessions? Landon's? Elaine's? This.
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby Balin » Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:24 pm

Did Landon claim that Frank had actually planted the artwork among Elaine's possessions? And that his fingerprints would prove it?
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby irishelk » Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:43 pm

Balin

Did Landon claim that Frank had actually planted the artwork among Elaine's possessions? Yes. And that his fingerprints would prove it? But no.
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby Balin » Tue Jan 31, 2017 7:24 pm

Did Landon's claim involve fingerprints in any way? If so, his own? Frank's? Elaine's?
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby irishelk » Wed Feb 01, 2017 2:54 pm

Balin

Did Landon's claim involve fingerprints in any way? Yes. If so, his own? Frank's? This, no to rest. Elaine's?
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby Acridian9 » Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:21 pm

Another object relevant? Did Frank left his fingerprints on something relevant? relevant where the conversation takes place? is it where the art was planted?
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby irishelk » Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:48 am

Acridian9

Another object relevant? Only the art. Did Frank left his fingerprints on something relevant? Yes. relevant where the conversation takes place? Not especially, but... is it where the art was planted? Yes, it is right after the art is discovered.
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby Balin » Sun Feb 05, 2017 12:29 am

Is it relevant to whom Landon made the accusation? Was it to Elaine?
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby Acridian9 » Sun Feb 05, 2017 1:13 am

Did Landon accuse Frank of spying on him?
Did Frank left his fingerprints on the art?
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby irishelk » Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:36 pm

Balin

Is it relevant to whom Landon made the accusation? Somewhat. Was it to Elaine? She was present, as were Frank and not-very-relevant others.


Acridian9

Did Landon accuse Frank of spying on him? No.
Did Frank left his fingerprints on the art? Yes.
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby Acridian9 » Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:06 am

Did Frank left his fingerprints on the art: before it was stolen? after it was found again? in between?

Did Landon accuse Frank of replacing the art? manipulating it? ruining it? forging it?
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby irishelk » Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:56 am

Acridian9

Did Frank left his fingerprints on the art: before it was stolen? No. after it was found again? No, but maybe explore. in between? Yes.

Did Landon accuse Frank of replacing the art? manipulating it? Yesish. ruining it? forging it? No to rest.
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby LemonCurry » Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:03 pm

Was the artwork at Frank's place at one time? Had Landon brought it there? Had Frank touched it? Did Landon move it further to Elaine's place?
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby irishelk » Sat Feb 18, 2017 6:30 pm

LemonCurry

Was the artwork at Frank's place at one time? No. Had Landon brought it there?
Had Frank touched it? YES. Did Landon move it further to Elaine's place? Yes.
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby LemonCurry » Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:42 pm

So, is this timeline correct?

1. Landon steals the artwork (and commits a murder in the process)
2. Landon brings the stolen artwork somewhere
3. Frank touches the artwork, leaving fingerprints
4. Landon moves the artwork further to Elaine's place, where it is inaccessible to Frank
5. The artwork is discoverd at Elaine's place, and Landon accuses Elaine of the theft
6. Frank argues that the artwork couldn't have been at Elaine's place all the time, because of Frank's Fingerprints
7. Landon accuses Frank of having left the fingerprints just now
8. But Frank is wearing gloves so the fingerprints must be older
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Re: [IrishElk] Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby irishelk » Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:45 pm

LemonCurry

So, is this timeline correct?

1. Landon steals the artwork (and commits a murder in the process)
2. Landon brings the stolen artwork somewhere
3. Frank touches the artwork, leaving fingerprints
4. Landon moves the artwork further to Elaine's place, where it is inaccessible to Frank
5. The artwork is discovered at Elaine's place, and Landon accuses Elaine of the theft
6. Frank argues that the artwork couldn't have been at Elaine's place all the time, because of Frank's Fingerprints
7. Landon accuses Frank of having left the fingerprints just now
8. But Frank is wearing gloves so the fingerprints must be older

Yes! Yes yes, 100% yes! Thank you for finally killing this one off!

*******************SPOILER

To LemonCurry's perfect solve above, I'll add some extraneous details--

This is from a Columbo episode (not the one I took the title from, that would be too easy). Of course, Frank is Columbo.

At an earlier point in the episode, the murderer, an art dealer, allows the detective to hold the stolen artwork, but it is wrapped in paper, so Columbo does not recognize it as evidence. Later "Landon" causes the police to find the planted artwork in the house of his mother, who was also a suspect. Columbo threatens to fingerprint the wrapping paper, suspecting that he will find his own prints and therefore prove the that the stolen art was in Landon's possession earlier. Landon insists to the other detectives that Columbo is framing him, that he just touched the paintings while they weren't looking. Columbo, smug as ever, pulls his hands out of his pockets to reveal he has been wearing gloves the whole time.
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Re: [IrishElk] {SOLVED} Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby Balin » Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:10 pm

Love it! Reminds me of a moment in one Phoenix Wright case.
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Re: [IrishElk] {SOLVED} Butterfly in Shades of Grey

Postby JenBurdoo » Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:59 pm

Here's the scene. One of my favorite episodes.
https://youtu.be/1hxXjX57zgg?t=24m58s
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