[IrishElk] Dear God

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[IrishElk] Dear God

Postby irishelk » Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:53 pm

Where there were nine, he put a tenth. A month later, he took it away. No one discovered his crime.
Last edited by irishelk on Sun May 07, 2017 11:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby Doriana » Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:02 pm

Nine... people? animals? objects? abstract things? If the latter, numbers? letters?

WAG (not sure how I would proceed if this was actually the case, but it just came to mind): Zeros in a bank account?
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby GalFisk » Mon Feb 27, 2017 4:19 pm

A tenth: another one? 1/10? Crime: theft? Fraud? Murder? Forgery?
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby irishelk » Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:11 pm

Doriana

Nine... people? animals? objects? This. abstract things? If the latter, numbers? letters? No to rest.

WAG (not sure how I would proceed if this was actually the case, but it just came to mind): Zeros in a bank account? No, but good WAG.
Hm, I don't know how that would work. Maybe if he worked at a bank, and could somehow manipulate investment accounts' balances, he could make one higher for a month, pocket the extra dividends/interest earned, and then put it back before the account holder saw. Maybe transfer the extra funds from a cash account that hadn't had any activity in a long time, then transfer it back.
This is why I can't work in a bank. :lol:



GalFisk

A tenth: another one? Yes. 1/10? No.
Crime: theft? Basically, but more commonly called-- Fraud? Yes. Murder? Forgery? No to rest.
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby Doriana » Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:19 pm

Can we call him Tim?

Are the nine objects identical? If so, is the tenth object identical to the other objects?

Did he do this as part of his job?
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby Grip » Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:10 pm

Does he work at a bar?
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby Balin » Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:14 pm

Is bowling somehow involved? Is it a bowling pin?
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby irishelk » Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:06 am

Doriana

Can we call him Tim? Sure.

Are the nine objects identical? No, but similar. If so, is the tenth object identical to the other objects? Similar.

Did he do this as part of his job? Noish.


Grip

Does he work at a bar? No.


Balin

Is bowling somehow involved? Is it a bowling pin? No, interesting thought.
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby trebor » Wed Mar 01, 2017 5:13 am

Are the objects in view of the public? Was the one he put there hidden by the other nine? Was he also the one who put the nine there?

Do the pieces form a whole? Are they part of an art installation ?
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby irishelk » Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:19 pm

trebor

Are the objects in view of the public? Yes. Was the one he put there hidden by the other nine? No. Was he also the one who put the nine there? No.

Do the pieces form a whole? No. Are they part of an art installation? No.
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby trebor » Sat Mar 04, 2017 4:48 am

Did he commit his crime during that month? Before it?
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby GalFisk » Sat Mar 04, 2017 5:45 am

Did he also put the nine there? Were the nine changed in any way during this month? Was the tenth? Were they donation bins? Was money involved? Were the nine in the same spot? Could all ten be seen at once?
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby irishelk » Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:56 pm

trebor

Did he commit his crime during that month? Yes. Before it? He might have started before.


GalFisk

Did he also put the nine there? No. Were the nine changed in any way during this month? No. Was the tenth? No. Were they donation bins? No but kind of OTRT. Was money involved? In the crime, yes. Were the nine in the same spot? Yes. Could all ten be seen at once? Yes.
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby Hobbsicle » Sun Mar 05, 2017 8:57 pm

Did people interact with the objects? Did they put things inside? When he collected it, did he collect something else as well? Money?
Was the tenth object a forgery of some kind? While the other nine were genuine?
Was the object smaller than a car? Than a couch? Than a bicycle? Than a vacuum cleaner? Than a cat?
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby GalFisk » Mon Mar 06, 2017 8:16 am

Were the objects manmade? Alive? Formerly alive? Electrical? Expensive?
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby irishelk » Mon Mar 06, 2017 12:33 pm

Hobbsicle

Did people interact with the objects? Yes. Did they put things inside? Yes. When he collected it, did he collect something else as well? Possibly. Money? No.
Was the tenth object a forgery of some kind? DOYD. It was same physical thing the other nine were. While the other nine were genuine?
Was the object smaller than a car? Yes. Than a couch? Yes. Than a bicycle? A bit. Than a vacuum cleaner? About the same size. Than a cat? Larger.


GalFisk

Were the objects manmade? Yes. Alive? Formerly alive? Electrical? No to rest. Expensive? Amazon says around $50-$200.
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby Doriana » Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:54 pm

Did people put money in the things?
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby irishelk » Mon Mar 06, 2017 2:20 pm

Doriana

Did people put money in the things? No (possibly sometimes, but not relevantly in the puzzle).
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby GalFisk » Mon Mar 06, 2017 2:39 pm

Was it a mailbox? Some other type of document receptacle?
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby Doriana » Mon Mar 06, 2017 3:00 pm

Were they trashcans?
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby irishelk » Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:31 pm

GalFisk

Was it a mailbox? Yes! Some other type of document receptacle?


Doriana

Were they trashcans? No.
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby Balin » Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:33 pm

Were the mailboxes adjacent? On the same street?
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby GalFisk » Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:33 pm

Was it a box for receiving mail? For sending mail? Did he take the mail that was put inside this box? Did he divert mail from the intended recipient? Did he receive advertisements? Newspapers? Money? Confidential information?
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby irishelk » Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:34 pm

Balin

Were the mailboxes adjacent? Yes. On the same street? So yes.


GalFisk

Was it a box for receiving mail? Yes. For sending mail? Yes, probably. Did he take the mail that was put inside this box? Yes. Did he divert mail from the intended recipient? No.
Did he receive advertisements? Newspapers? Money? Confidential information? Yesish, not to rest.
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby Doriana » Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:48 pm

Did the mailboxes belong to private people? companies? institutions? authorities?
Last edited by Doriana on Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby GalFisk » Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:07 pm

Is spying relevant? Was mail put there by: mailmen? Officials? People in general?
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby irishelk » Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:47 pm

Doriana

Did the mailboxes belong to private people? This. companies? institutions? authorities? No to rest--not impossible for them to be company mailboxes, but let's keep it simple and assume personal.


GalFisk

Is spying relevant? No. Was mail put there by: mailmen? Yes. Officials? People in general? No to rest.
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby GalFisk » Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:18 am

Did he receive mail intended for another one of the nine? Did he keep the mail? Destroy it? Read it? Give it to someone? Give it to whom it was meant for? Was any of the mail placed in the box meant for him? Was the box marked? If so: with an address? A number? A name?
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby irishelk » Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:49 pm

GalFisk

Did he receive mail intended for another one of the nine? No. Did he keep the mail? Yes. Destroy it? Irr, maybe eventually. Read it? Probably. Give it to someone? No. Give it to whom it was meant for?
Was any of the mail placed in the box meant for him? Yope, explore. Was the box marked? Yes. If so: with an address? This. A number? A name?
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby GalFisk » Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:46 pm

Was it a real address? An address popularized in fiction? Such as 221B Baker st?
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby trebor » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:19 am

If it was a real address, was it his? Did he want people to think that the address was his, if it wasn't?
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby irishelk » Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:26 pm

GalFisk

Was it a real address? Noish. An address popularized in fiction? No. Such as 221B Baker st?


trebor

If it was a real address, was it his? It's noishly real, but it's yopeishly his. Did he want people to think that the address was his, if it wasn't? Noish.

Sorry for all the ish's--you'll get it.
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby GalFisk » Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:09 pm

Was it a real street, but with a street number that was out of bounds? Some other combination of real and unreal information?
Did he order things to be sent to this mailbox? Did he register himself as living at the address on the mailbox? Did he assume a false name?
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby kalira » Wed Mar 15, 2017 3:05 pm

Is he homeless? living in some kind of non-permanent structure? or in a vehicle of some kind? Is there any relevant interaction between him and any of the owners of the other 9 mailboxes? or any relevant relationship?
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby irishelk » Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:45 pm

GalFisk

Was it a real street, but with a street number that was out of bounds? Yes--right street, fake number. Some other combination of real and unreal information?
Did he order things to be sent to this mailbox? Yesish. Did he register himself as living at the address on the mailbox? No. Did he assume a false name? YES, good question.


kalira

Is he homeless? living in some kind of non-permanent structure? or in a vehicle of some kind? No to all.
Is there any relevant interaction between him and any of the owners of the other 9 mailboxes? No. or any relevant relationship? None.
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby JenBurdoo » Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:30 pm

Did he use the Internet to order free materials of some sort (coupons, etc) that could not have been sent to his normal address? Perhaps this was a way to get multiples of something - one to his address, another to the fake?
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby irishelk » Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:11 pm

JenBurdoo

Did he use the Internet to order free materials of some sort (coupons, etc) that could not have been sent to his normal address? Yesish, but not coupons... Perhaps this was a way to get multiples of something - one to his address, another to the fake? Not exactly. You're circling in.
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby trebor » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:06 am

Does it matter what specifically he ordered? Was this something along the lines of a buy one, get one free offer, where the free item had to be sent to a different person?
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby irishelk » Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:48 pm

trebor

Does it matter what specifically he ordered? Yes, SVV of ordered. There are two things that it likely was, I'll give it to you for either.
Was this something along the lines of a buy one, get one free offer, where the free item had to be sent to a different person? No.
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby biograd » Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:12 pm

Did he perform some kind of identity theft? fraud?
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby irishelk » Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:02 pm

biograd

Did he perform some kind of identity theft? No. fraud? Yes.
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby GalFisk » Sun Mar 26, 2017 7:23 am

Was this thing also delivered to the other mailboxes? Was it delivered to everyone in an area? Is a lottery relevant?
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby irishelk » Mon Mar 27, 2017 2:09 pm

GalFisk

Was this thing also delivered to the other mailboxes? No. Was it delivered to everyone in an area? No. Is a lottery relevant? No.
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby Balin » Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:09 pm

Instead of "ordered," would "requested" be more accurate? Did he spend any money to get these things?
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby GalFisk » Tue Mar 28, 2017 7:23 am

Did he defraud: people? Companies? Government? Relevant which false name he assumed? Did he receive bribes meant for someone else?
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby trebor » Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:58 pm

Is there a relevant reason that he couldn't have these things sent to his real address? Were the items used to commit fraud? Was ordering them for SVV) itself the fraud?

Are the items weaponry? Household items?
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby irishelk » Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:20 pm

Balin

Instead of "ordered," would "requested" be more accurate? I would say so, yes. Did he spend any money to get these things? No.


GalFisk

Did he defraud: people? Companies? This. Government? Relevant which false name he assumed? No. Did he receive bribes meant for someone else? No, but interesting.


trebor

Is there a relevant reason that he couldn't have these things sent to his real address? Yes. Were the items used to commit fraud? Yes. Was ordering them (for SVV) itself the fraud? I would say it initiates the fraud; more steps follow.

Are the items weaponry? No. Household items? Yope.
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby Doriana » Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:01 pm

Does he sell the items once he receives them?
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby irishelk » Sun Apr 02, 2017 2:27 pm

Doriana

Does he sell the items once he receives them? No.
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby biograd » Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:26 pm

Were the items pieces of paper? If so, catalogs? invoices? refund checks?
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby trebor » Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:53 am

If he had had the items sent to his real address, would the fraud have been discovered? Would the fraud have been possible at all?

Did he request a finished product that the company he was defrauding would normally provide? Did he claim something faulty with previous items purchased, or something along these lines?
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby irishelk » Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:45 pm

biograd

Were the items pieces of paper? One of the primary items would be paper, one would not be, but both would likely come with papers.
If so, catalogs? invoices? refund checks? None of these.


trebor

If he had had the items sent to his real address, would the fraud have been discovered? Yes. Would the fraud have been possible at all? Not the way he was doing it.

Did he request a finished product that the company he was defrauding would normally provide? Yes. Did he claim something faulty with previous items purchased, or something along these lines? No, it was a standard request for a new something.
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby trebor » Sun Apr 09, 2017 4:48 pm

Is one of the items an instruction manual?
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby irishelk » Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:53 pm

trebor

Is one of the items an instruction manual? No.
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby trebor » Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:19 am

The scope of the fraud. $0 - $100? $101 - $1000? $1,001 - $5,000? Greater?
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby irishelk » Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:07 am

trebor
The scope of the fraud. $0 - $100? $101 - $1000? $1,001 - $5,000? Greater? Could be any, although I would say that amounts above about $10,000 become increasingly unlikely.
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby kalira » Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:47 pm

Is the specific time frame during which he had this mailbox in place relevant? Is it just enough that he had the box up long enough to receive the items? Would it have worked if he had done this in a different month? different year?

Relevant what the (fake) address is that is attached to his mailbox? (Would attempting to figure out the address be at all a good direction to head?)

Is there anything relevant about the owners of the other 9 mailboxes? Did people send him the things that he received because they thought they were sending them to one of the other 9? because they assumed a connection of some kind between his address and that of the other 9 (for example, 1-9 are businesses that deal with X and putting his next to theirs makes people think his mailbox belongs to such a business as well)?

Was the reason he could not have the things sent to his real address just because it would have made him easier to catch? Would the company have even been willing to send the things to his real address? Or does the fake address fool the company into thinking something, thereby enabling him to get the items?

So there are two relevant items he receives in the mailbox? that contribute to his fraud? but the receiving of them is not the fraud in and of itself? Does the fraud consist of something he does with the items after receiving them?
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby irishelk » Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:44 pm

kalira

Is the specific time frame during which he had this mailbox in place relevant? No. Is it just enough that he had the box up long enough to receive the items? Correct. Would it have worked if he had done this in a different month? Yes. different year? Yes, although some easier than others.

Relevant what the (fake) address is that is attached to his mailbox? (Would attempting to figure out the address be at all a good direction to head?) No.

Is there anything relevant about the owners of the other 9 mailboxes? No. Did people send him the things that he received because they thought they were sending them to one of the other 9? because they assumed a connection of some kind between his address and that of the other 9 (for example, 1-9 are businesses that deal with X and putting his next to theirs makes people think his mailbox belongs to such a business as well)? No to all.

Was the reason he could not have the things sent to his real address just because it would have made him easier to catch? Yope. Would the company have even been willing to send the things to his real address? Probably. Or does the fake address fool the company into thinking something, thereby enabling him to get the items? No (except their thinking it is a real address).

So there are two relevant items he receives in the mailbox? Good q, I think this is getting confused. There are two possible physical items that it could be, which would amount to the same sort of fraud.
that contribute to his fraud? Yes. but the receiving of them is not the fraud in and of itself? It is, partially... Does the fraud consist of something he does with the items after receiving them? But also yes.
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby JenBurdoo » Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:37 am

Was he ordering free samples? This seems unlikely since you've said the value could be far higher than a normal one...)

Was he receiving the actual valuable items, or something related to them (a deed or other proof of ownership, for example) that could be regarded as of equal value?

Did he take a risk of discovery? Had his deception been discovered, would he have been prosecuted?

Is the origin of the items relevant? Do the makers speak a different language than the recipient? Are they from a foreign country?
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby irishelk » Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:35 pm

JenBurdoo

Was he ordering free samples? This seems unlikely since you've said the value could be far higher than a normal one...) No.

Was he receiving the actual valuable items, or something related to them (a deed or other proof of ownership, for example) that could be regarded as of equal value? Hard to answer. The items are valuable, but they are in a sense a representation of something.

Did he take a risk of discovery? Probably, but irr. Had his deception been discovered, would he have been prosecuted? Yes.

Is the origin of the items relevant? The organization that sends them, yes. The country, no. Do the makers speak a different language than the recipient? No. Are they from a foreign country? No or irr.
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby kalira » Tue May 02, 2017 1:17 pm

Is the organization one that exists in the real world? Is it fairly famous? Is it a charity? non-profit? or could you term it a company? Is it involved in services? manufacturing? other? Is it in the computer industry? vehicle manufacturing? jewelry? art? aviation/aerospace? agriculture? health? some other kind of tech industry not touched on in the previous questions?

WAG: Is he getting model vehicles delivered to him? That he can use to commit some kind of insurance fraud?
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby GalFisk » Tue May 02, 2017 2:28 pm

I would like to ask the following questions about each of the two possible items: is it made from paper? Plastic? Cardboard? Wood? Metal? Glass? Stone? Bone/teeth/ivory? SKin/leather/fur? Ceramics? Clay? Food? Liquid? Gas? Glue/resin? Glass fiber? Carbon fiber? Plant fiber? Synthetic fiber? Fabric? Thread? Is it mass-produced? Is it art? Is it a certificate? A proof of something? Does it have a barcode? MAgnetic strip? Electronic chip? Other computer-readable information? Is it electronic? Does he pay for it? Is he supposed to pay for it? Can he use it in order to not pay for something? Or pay less for something?
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby irishelk » Sat May 06, 2017 12:07 pm

kalira

Is the organization one that exists in the real world? It's a type of organization or an industry, and yes, it is real. Is it fairly famous? There are several very famous ones. Is it a charity? non-profit? No. or could you term it a company? Some of the organizations involved I would call companies, but there is a more specific term.
Is it involved in services? Yes, of a specific kind. manufacturing? other? Is it in the computer industry? vehicle manufacturing? jewelry? art? aviation/aerospace? agriculture? health? No to rest. some other kind of tech industry not touched on in the previous questions? It uses technology but doesn't manufacture it.

WAG: Is he getting model vehicles delivered to him? That he can use to commit some kind of insurance fraud? No, good WAG though.


GalFisk

I would like to ask the following questions about each of the two possible items: is it made from paper? Plastic? YES.
Cardboard? Wood? Metal? Glass? Stone? Bone/teeth/ivory? SKin/leather/fur? Ceramics? Clay? Food? Liquid? Gas? Glue/resin? Glass fiber? Carbon fiber? Plant fiber? Synthetic fiber? Fabric? Thread? No to rest.
Is it mass-produced? Yes. Is it art? Not by any conventional definition. :D
Is it a certificate? A proof of something? In a very vague way. Does it have a barcode? Not typically... MAgnetic strip? One of them, yes! Electronic chip? One of them, yes! Other computer-readable information? Yes, both! Is it electronic? One of them, yes! Does he pay for it? No. Is he supposed to pay for it? At some point, yes. Can he use it in order to not pay for something? YES. Or pay less for something? No.
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby GalFisk » Sat May 06, 2017 12:12 pm

Credit cards? SIM cards? Phones?
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby irishelk » Sat May 06, 2017 12:26 pm

GalFisk

Credit cards? Yes!
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby Grip » Sat May 06, 2017 1:42 pm

Was he trying to steal/transfer data between cards?
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby GalFisk » Sat May 06, 2017 5:19 pm

Did he get credit cards issued to a nonexistent person? A dead person? Did he use the cards to pay for stuff, but not pay the credit bills?
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Re: [IrishElk] Dear God

Postby irishelk » Sun May 07, 2017 11:57 am

Grip

Was he trying to steal/transfer data between cards? No, but good guess.


GalFisk

Did he get credit cards issued to a nonexistent person? Yes. A dead person? Did he use the cards to pay for stuff, but not pay the credit bills? Yes!

Thank you for putting this one to bed at last. I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that the details of financial fraud don't always make the most captivating puzzles. :lol:

************************************SPOILER

This was a scam occasionally done throughout the 1900s--there is one scam artist who was famous for it, but I've completely lost his name. He would find a place with a lot of mailboxes, say on a rural route, and just plop one more box down beside them with a non-existent address on it.

He would open credit/charge cards or checking accounts in a phony name to this phony address, and collect the cards and checkbooks as they came in. Now he had free rein to use them, and no one would be able to track him down to force him to pay. When he had enough for a spree, he would simply uproot the false mailbox and stick it elsewhere.
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Re: [IrishElk] {DELIVERED} Dear God

Postby Balin » Mon May 08, 2017 11:03 am

For the record, I think that's a very clever puzzle, and well-worded.
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Re: [IrishElk] {DELIVERED} Dear God

Postby irishelk » Mon May 08, 2017 2:59 pm

Why thank you! It's a clever scam, too, although hopefully less workable today.
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Re: [IrishElk] {DELIVERED} Dear God

Postby WiZ » Mon May 08, 2017 8:29 pm

*scribbles in 'Puzzel of the year 2017' notebook*
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