[Balin] Inconvvff routes

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[Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Balin » Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:46 am

In order to prevent an inconvenience towards themselves, a group instituted a regulation benefiting a second group. Directly because of that, some time later, some members of that second group experienced the inconvenience. How?
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Grip » Fri Apr 07, 2017 5:16 pm

Is this related at all to travel?

Groups = humans? adults of both sexes?
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Balin » Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:32 pm

Is this related at all to travel? Yes

Groups = humans? adults of both sexes? Yes to both
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Grip » Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:38 pm

Specific modes of transportation relevant?
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Balin » Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:47 pm

Specific modes of transportation relevant? Yes
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Doriana » Sat Apr 08, 2017 1:47 pm

Cars relevant? busses? trains? subways? trams? planes? ferries? boats? bikes?
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby irishelk » Sat Apr 08, 2017 2:55 pm

Did the second group benefit financially? Were they able to save time? Would the regulation be described as life-changing? Or more of a minor benefit? Does the first group work for a transportation authority?

Was the first group trying to influence the behavior of the second? Did the regulation achieve what the first group thought it would? Did the benefit put the second group in the same situation as the first?

Traffic relevant? Or any other kind of overcrowding?
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Balin » Sun Apr 09, 2017 12:18 pm

Cars relevant? buses? trains? subways? trams? planes? ferries? boats? bikes? Any type of public transportation will do. The story, though, focuses on buses.

Did the second group benefit financially? Yes Were they able to save time? Technically also Yes Would the regulation be described as life-changing? Or more of a minor benefit? This Does the first group work for a transportation authority? Yes; the first group is the mass transit authority

Was the first group trying to influence the behavior of the second? Yes Did the regulation achieve what the first group thought it would? Yes Did the benefit put the second group in the same situation as the first? No

Traffic relevant? Or any other kind of overcrowding? Neither
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Hobbsicle » Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:49 pm

Does the regulation apply to all public transportation? Or just buses? After the regulation, was the inconvenience only relevantly experienced by those who rode the buses?

The inconvenience to the mass transit authority:
Was it a financial burden? A time burden? Was the inconvenience experienced across all mass transit? Or just buses?
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Balin » Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:53 pm

Does the regulation apply to all public transportation? This Or just buses?
After the regulation, was the inconvenience only relevantly experienced by those who rode the buses? Yes - others experienced it as well, but only the buses are relevant

The inconvenience to the mass transit authority:
Was it a financial burden? This A time burden?
Was the inconvenience experienced across all mass transit? Yes, but see above Or just buses?
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Grip » Sun Apr 16, 2017 2:27 am

Are fees, fines or tolls relevant?
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Balin » Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:08 am

Are fees, fines or tolls relevant? No, good idea though
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Hobbsicle » Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:50 am

Was the inconvenience related to: picking up passengers? Taking payment? Making stops? Expending fuel? Maintaining the vehicles? Security?
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Balin » Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:30 am

Was the inconvenience related to: picking up passengers? Taking payment? Making stops? Expending fuel? Maintaining the vehicles? Security? None of these
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Hobbsicle » Sat Apr 22, 2017 1:37 am

Was the inconvenience felt by the drivers? Ticket-takers? Route planners?
Is it related to other technology? Like phones? The internet? Is the second group "those who ride the bus"? Or is it a subset of that?
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Balin » Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:23 pm

Was the inconvenience felt by the drivers? Ticket-takers? Route planners? None of these
Is it related to other technology? Like phones? The internet? No to these
Is the second group "those who ride the bus"? Yes Or is it a subset of that?
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby GalFisk » Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:43 pm

Paying for tickets relevant? Payment methods? When to buy tickets? Or where? Mobile payment relevant? Cash? Computer or network outage relevant?
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Balin » Sun Apr 23, 2017 9:10 pm

Paying for tickets relevant? Payment methods? When to buy tickets? Or where? Mobile payment relevant? Cash? Computer or network outage relevant? None of these
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Hobbsicle » Fri Apr 28, 2017 1:26 pm

Was the inconvenience felt by office workers at the mass transit authority? By the officials/executives?
Would one of the bus riders notice the inconvenience while riding the bus? Boarding the bus? Departing? Buying the ticket? Waiting for the bus? Getting information about the route? About the time? Are time schedules relevant?
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Balin » Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:38 pm

Was the inconvenience felt by office workers at the mass transit authority? By the officials/executives? This, well done
Would one of the bus riders notice the inconvenience while riding the bus? Yope Boarding the bus? Departing? Buying the ticket? Waiting for the bus? Getting information about the route? About the time? Are time schedules relevant? No, and No to rest
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Balin » Thu May 04, 2017 11:07 pm

HINT: Bus accidents are relevant.
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Hobbsicle » Mon May 08, 2017 2:15 pm

Are accidents related to the inconvenience to the PTA? Are the accidents themselves the inconvenience? Or the result of the accidents? Would the inconvenience occur in every accident situation?

When those riding the bus felt the inconvenience, were bus accidents still relevant?
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Balin » Mon May 08, 2017 10:40 pm

Are accidents related to the inconvenience to the PTA? Yes Are the accidents themselves the inconvenience? No Or the result of the accidents? They're "a" result, not "the" result Would the inconvenience occur in every accident situation? No, but the possibility of it occurring would be present in every accident situation

When those riding the bus felt the inconvenience, were bus accidents still relevant? Yes, and an FA
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby irishelk » Wed May 10, 2017 11:43 am

The initial inconvenience to the transit officials: so it occurred (when it did) after an accident? Only after accidents?
Was it the obligation to fix the bus involved in the accident? To fix other buses? To apply higher safety standards? Anything involving publicity/the media?
To pay compensation to the riders involved in the accident? To the driver? To other motorists/pedestrians involved? To the city?

The inconvenience that affected some passengers: is it also purely financial? Do they have to pay the same thing that the transit officials had to pay? To the same party?
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Balin » Wed May 10, 2017 1:05 pm

The initial inconvenience to the transit officials: so it occurred (when it did) after an accident? Only after accidents? Only relevantly after accidents
Was it the obligation to fix the bus involved in the accident? To fix other buses? To apply higher safety standards? Anything involving publicity/the media? To pay compensation to the riders involved in the accident? This is the regulation instituted to prevent the inconvenience! To the driver? To other motorists/pedestrians involved? To the city? No to rest

The inconvenience that affected some passengers: is it also purely financial? No, but there is a financial element Do they have to pay the same thing that the transit officials had to pay? Presumably, but see above To the same party? No
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby JenBurdoo » Sun May 14, 2017 6:17 pm

Documentation relevant? Accident reports? Do bus passengers experience this inconvenience immediately after an accident? During? Some time later? Whilst requesting or receiving compensation? Is a lawsuit relevant? Does it matter who was responsible for the accident (eg the bus driver or another vehicle's driver)?

Is this a city bus system? School bus, airport shuttle, long-haul of some sort?
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Balin » Sun May 14, 2017 9:04 pm

Documentation relevant? Somewhat Accident reports? Somewhat
Do bus passengers experience this inconvenience immediately after an accident? During? Some time later? Shortly afterwards Whilst requesting or receiving compensation? Yes, see next
Is a lawsuit relevant? YES. "A lawsuit" is the inconvenience."
Does it matter who was responsible for the accident (eg the bus driver or another vehicle's driver)? Assume No

Is this a city bus system? This School bus, airport shuttle, long-haul of some sort?
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby JenBurdoo » Sun May 14, 2017 9:45 pm

Who is being sued? The transit authority? The passengers? Someone else?
Who is bringing the suit? The transit authority? The passengers? Someone else?

Was a fixed amount of compensation determined in the regulation? Are the passengers getting less or more than this?

Shades of the present kerfuffle over compensation for being kicked off filled airliners, but you say this involves buses...
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Balin » Tue May 16, 2017 1:06 pm

Who is being sued? The transit authority? The passengers? Someone else?
Who is bringing the suit? The transit authority? The passengers? Someone else?
The regulation was instituted to prevent the passengers (members of the public) from suing the transit authority. Members of the public ended up in court after the police filed charges against them.

Was a fixed amount of compensation determined in the regulation? Yes Are the passengers getting less or more than this? No

Shades of the present kerfuffle over compensation for being kicked off filled airliners, but you say this involves buses... I started this puzzle before the present kerfuffle became a kerfuffle. I'm sure that could be adapted for a puzzle or two or seven also.
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby irishelk » Thu May 18, 2017 11:34 pm

So, the transit authorities, to prevent the expense and inconvenience of lawsuits brought by customers involved in bus accidents, pass regulations that provide a standard payout to anyone involved in an accident. Correct so far?
And because bus riders who are involved in accidents receive payouts from the transit authorities, this somehow causes some of the riders to be taken to court by police?

Are the bus riders intentionally causing accidents in order to receive payouts? Or are the police alleging that they are?

Is it only the riders who receive payouts who are then taken to court by police?
Do the police feel that they should receive a portion of the payout?
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Balin » Fri May 19, 2017 10:52 am

So, the transit authorities, to prevent the expense and inconvenience of lawsuits brought by customers involved in bus accidents, pass regulations that provide a standard payout to anyone involved in an accident. Correct so far? Yes
And because bus riders who are involved in accidents receive payouts from the transit authorities, this somehow causes some of the riders to be taken to court by police? Yes, but there is a slight FA here!

Are the bus riders intentionally causing accidents in order to receive payouts? No Or are the police alleging that they are? No

Is it only the riders who receive payouts who are then taken to court by police? Same FA!
Do the police feel that they should receive a portion of the payout? No
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby biograd » Fri May 19, 2017 5:38 pm

I notice you said "members of the public" and "bus riders" as though they were the same thing--but not every member of the public rides the bus at all, and especially not at the relevant time (when a bus is involved in an accident). So, are bus riders taken to court? or random other members of the public (who may, by coincidence, also have ridden a bus at some point in the past, but irrelevantly so)?

If it's members of the public in general, are those people involved in traffic violations that contribute to the cause of the bus accidents?

If it's bus riders specifically, is the new liability for suing related to the fact that the transit authority needs to know who is/was on the bus? or that riders have to prove their presence on the bus? For example, I know you said that paying for tickets is irrelevant, but maybe when passengers have to identify themselves and show their tickets from the relevant ride in order to be eligible for payout, this leads to some of them being discovered to have not paid for the tickets, and then they get taken to court for that.
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby Balin » Sat May 20, 2017 12:34 am

I notice you said "members of the public" and "bus riders" as though they were the same thing--but not every member of the public rides the bus at all, and especially not at the relevant time (when a bus is involved in an accident). And I would love to clarify the distinction, but that would pretty much $poyle the puzzle...
So, are bus riders taken to court? or random other members of the public (who may, by coincidence, also have ridden a bus at some point in the past, but irrelevantly so)? ...Think more along the lines of the latter than the former.

If it's members of the public in general, are those people involved in traffic violations that contribute to the cause of the bus accidents? No

If it's bus riders specifically, is the new liability for suing related to the fact that the transit authority needs to know who is/was on the bus? YES or that riders have to prove their presence on the bus? Yope For example, I know you said that paying for tickets is irrelevant, but maybe when passengers have to identify themselves and show their tickets from the relevant ride in order to be eligible for payout, this leads to some of them being discovered to have not paid for the tickets, and then they get taken to court for that. Good idea, but not quite.
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Re: [Balin] Inconvvff routes

Postby biograd » Thu May 25, 2017 3:57 pm

Are the relevant members of the public those who occasionally ride buses (but who aren't necessarily riding at the moment they suffer the inconvenience)? those who have been on buses in the past (but again, aren't riding during the inconvenience)?

In order to prove who was on the bus, do riders have to show IDs when boarding? when buying tickets? are the tickets somehow linked to the purchaser (other than, of course, being in his/her possession), rather than being anonymous?
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