(Grip) Canine Conundrum

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(Grip) Canine Conundrum

Postby Grip » Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:02 pm

No matter which way the dog went he knew he would be disappointed.
Last edited by Grip on Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: (Grip) Canine Conundrum

Postby Earnest » Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:11 am

dog...animal? A real one or a cartoon (e.g. goofy...)? A puppet? A symbol? An animal in an electronic game? Was the dog a real animal... was the dog his dog? From a long period of time or did he just took it? Is the dog a puppy?Canine race relevant? Is it a police dog? A dog for blind people? he knew...he=H/A/M?...first he=second he?

way...on a street?A way in a wood? a direction in his house? Was him in a "narrow" place? Did he know where he was going?

Disappointed for the direction taken by the dog?Was it a dog race? (guess--> it was a dog race and the only direction where the dog was supposed to run was in front of him so that any other direction would have disappointed him having bet on that dog) Was it a sort of dog show? Was the dog supposed to "go in a way"? Or just to stand still?
Disappointed=sad?Disappointed for something done by the dog? By someone else? Was the dog part of a litter? Were there other dogs? Did the dog belong to him?Was the dog contented by two/more supposed "owners"? Was the dog on a leash? free to move? If it was on a leash, was it difficult to guide him? Were there people he didn't want to meet in the surroundings?
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Re: (Grip) Canine Conundrum

Postby SurfingPikachu » Wed Jul 05, 2017 1:43 pm

And just to be sure, neither of the "he" refers to the dog itself? Since people sometimes use he/she with animals.
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Re: (Grip) Canine Conundrum

Postby Grip » Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:41 pm

dog...animal? yes A real one or a cartoon (e.g. goofy...)? real flesh and blood doggie A puppet? A symbol? An animal in an electronic game? Was the dog a real animal yes... was the dog his dog? no From a long period of time or did he just took it? Is the dog a puppy? no Canine race relevant? no Is it a police dog? no A dog for blind people? no he knew...he=H/A/M?...first he=second he? Yup, same he, human adult male.

way...on a street?A way in a wood? a direction in his house? exact location irrelevant, most likely in a house Was him in a "narrow" place? no Did he know where he was going? no

Disappointed for the direction taken by the dog? yes Was it a dog race? (guess--> it was a dog race and the only direction where the dog was supposed to run was in front of him so that any other direction would have disappointed him having bet on that dog) no, not bad guess Was it a sort of dog show? no Was the dog supposed to "go in a way"? yes Or just to stand still? no
Disappointed=sad? yes Disappointed for something done by the dog? yes By someone else? no Was the dog part of a litter? irrel Were there other dogs? no Did the dog belong to him? no Was the dog contented by two/more supposed "owners"? no, there was only one owner Was the dog on a leash? free to move? yes If it was on a leash, was it difficult to guide him? Were there people he didn't want to meet in the surroundings? no to rest

-

And just to be sure, neither of the "he" refers to the dog itself? Correct. Since people sometimes use he/she with animals. Correct, I do with dogs myself. The dog in the puzzle is a she BTW, but not relevant though.
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Re: (Grip) Canine Conundrum

Postby Earnest » Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:17 am

Was the dog's paws dirty? So that everywhere he went he left traces?
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Re: (Grip) Canine Conundrum

Postby SurfingPikachu » Thu Jul 06, 2017 2:05 pm

Was the dog instructed to find something or someone? To follow something or someone? Was the dog injured or impaired in some way?
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Re: (Grip) Canine Conundrum

Postby Grip » Thu Jul 06, 2017 10:28 pm

Was the dog's paws dirty? no So that everywhere he went he left traces? no

-

Was the dog instructed to find something or someone? no To follow something or someone? no Was the dog injured or impaired in some way? no
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Re: (Grip) Canine Conundrum

Postby SurfingPikachu » Sat Jul 08, 2017 5:42 am

Does the dog have an owner? Did the dog use to have an owner?
Any other relevant people? Any other relevant animals?
Is he in the same location as the dog? Did he interact with the dog? Could either see or hear the other?
Was either trying to communicate to the other? Lead the other somewhere?
Dog breed relevant? Any emergency or time-critical or life-at-stake situation occurring?

No matter which way the dog went he knew he would be disappointed, because:
- He knew that the dog would be unable to do something?
- He knew that the dog's action, regardless of direction, would result in something?
- He knew that the fact that the dog was stirred to action implied something?
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Re: (Grip) Canine Conundrum

Postby Earnest » Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:35 am

Is the size of the dog relevant? Medium? Small? Big? Was him near the dog? Were dog and owner in the same room? Could the owner see the dog physically?Displayed on a screen? On his phone? On a camera? Was the owner on a vacancy/holiday? Was him on a video chat? Could he just stop the dog and force him (the dog) to sit still? Would he be disappointed even if the dog returned back to him?

To be sure...with "direction", you mean any feasible direction for a dog? Or any direction in a whole? I mean...would he be disappointed if the dog went up?Went down? Was the dog and his owner separated by something? A glass? A door? For instance I was thinking that the dog was closed in an elevator with glass walls, but his owner didn't want the dog to be there. The dog, however couldn't exit the elevator and any direction he would have taken, his owner would be disappointed by his behavior. Now...I know that this is quite impossible because a dog cannot press the buttons of an elevator, but is it likely for the puzzle a situation like that where the dog is inside an engine and his owner is unable to avoid the consequences?

If the dog had done just a single step in an arbitrary direction, would him be disappointed? Or the disappointment would more likely intervene whenever the dog continue his walk? Was there food? Was the dog in a kitchen? In a bathroom? In a specific room of the house? Would it work if the owner and the dog were in a park? If the dog were alone in a park? has the dog some relevant physical characteristic? Was there someone frightened by the dog? Was the dog on something/someone? Was there something "skating on thin ice" so that a single move of the dog would provoke something to be broken?
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Re: (Grip) Canine Conundrum

Postby Grip » Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:43 pm

Does the dog have an owner? yup Did the dog use to have an owner?
Any other relevant people? no, just "he" and the owner Any other relevant animals? no
Is he in the same location as the dog? yes Did he interact with the dog? yes Could either see or hear the other? yes
Was either trying to communicate to the other? yes Lead the other somewhere? yesish
Dog breed relevant? no, in this case it was a little Cairn Terrier Any emergency or time-critical or life-at-stake situation occurring? thankfully not

No matter which way the dog went he knew he would be disappointed, because:
- He knew that the dog would be unable to do something? no
- He knew that the dog's action, regardless of direction, would result in something? noish
- He knew that the fact that the dog was stirred to action implied something? yes

-

Is the size of the dog relevant? nope, see above Medium? Small? Big? Was him near the dog? yes Were dog and owner in the same room? yes Could the owner see the dog physically? yes Displayed on a screen? On his phone? On a camera? Was the owner on a vacancy/holiday? Was him on a video chat? Could he just stop the dog and force him (the dog) to sit still? no to rest Would he be disappointed even if the dog returned back to him? yes

To be sure...with "direction", you mean any feasible direction for a dog? yes Or any direction in a whole? I mean...would he be disappointed if the dog went up?Went down? Was the dog and his owner separated by something? A glass? A door? For instance I was thinking that the dog was closed in an elevator with glass walls, but his owner didn't want the dog to be there. The dog, however couldn't exit the elevator and any direction he would have taken, his owner would be disappointed by his behavior. Now...I know that this is quite impossible because a dog cannot press the buttons of an elevator, but is it likely for the puzzle a situation like that where the dog is inside an engine and his owner is unable to avoid the consequences? no to rest, sorry

If the dog had done just a single step in an arbitrary direction, would him be disappointed? no Or the disappointment would more likely intervene whenever the dog continue his walk? yes Was there food? no Was the dog in a kitchen? irrel In a bathroom? irrel In a specific room of the house? no, could occur anywhere in the house Would it work if the owner and the dog were in a park? yes If the dog were alone in a park? no has the dog some relevant physical characteristic? nope Was there someone frightened by the dog? Was the dog on something/someone? Was there something "skating on thin ice" so that a single move of the dog would provoke something to be broken? no to rest
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Re: (Grip) Canine Conundrum

Postby SurfingPikachu » Sun Jul 09, 2017 3:03 am

So he, dog, and dog's owner were all in the same room? And aware of one another?
The dog was trying to lead one or both people? Or the other way round?
The dog was trying to find something? Get to something or somewhere? Of its own intention?
Did he think he knew what the dog was trying to do or where the dog was trying to go?
Was he disappointed because he foresaw something?
He was disappointed because the dog was stirred to action at all? (e.g. just after a "Sit" command?)
He was disappointed because he foresaw the outcome of the dog moving? Foresaw what the dog would find? Foresaw where the dog would go?
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Re: (Grip) Canine Conundrum

Postby Earnest » Sun Jul 09, 2017 8:14 am

Had the dog continue his walk, would he (the dog) have drag something? So the pence of the owner is crucial right? If so, is it important in that he talked to the dog? He wanted to take the dog away? he was trying to do something that any movement would have destroyed? Was the dog in the middle of a construction? In the middle of something like a domino set up? Would he (the dog) be another animal like an hamster or a bird, would the whole situation fit?

If the dog stayed still or sit, would he took him away from the place where he (the dog) found himself?
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Re: (Grip) Canine Conundrum

Postby Grip » Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:46 pm

So he, dog, and dog's owner were all in the same room? And aware of one another? yes to both
The dog was trying to lead one or both people? Or the other way round? this
The dog was trying to find something? Get to something or somewhere? Of its own intention? no to all
Did he think he knew what the dog was trying to do or where the dog was trying to go?noish
Was he disappointed because he foresaw something? no
He was disappointed because the dog was stirred to action at all? (e.g. just after a "Sit" command?) no
He was disappointed because he foresaw the outcome of the dog moving? Foresaw what the dog would find? Foresaw where the dog would go? no to all

-

Had the dog continue his walk FA, the dog physically walking is relevant but she was not actually on a walk/leash, would he (the dog) have drag something? no So the pence of the owner is crucial right? could you rephrase, please? If so, is it important in that he talked to the dog? yes He wanted to take the dog away? no he was trying to do something that any movement would have destroyed? no Was the dog in the middle of a construction? no In the middle of something like a domino set up? no Would he (the dog) be another animal like an hamster or a bird, would the whole situation fit? very doubtful

If the dog stayed still or sit, would he took him away from the place where he (the dog) found himself? no
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Re: (Grip) Canine Conundrum

Postby Earnest » Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:34 pm

If so, is it important in that he talked to the dog? yes --> was he maybe try not to be discovered? Was him hidden? Did the dog cause him to be discovered? Did he relevantly have a dog? If so did the dog smell the smell (sorry) of his dog? The dog didn't belong to him, right? Relevant who owns the dog? Was the owner in the same house as him? Was the owner a H/A/F? A H/A/M? Did he prepared a surprise for the owner of the dog? Had the dog walked, would he have ruined something? Damaged him? Provoke him an embarrassment? Was the dog looking at him? Had the dog walked would he have revealed something? Make noise? Begin to run?
Was the dog's owner talking? Were the dog's owner and the man both talking to the dog? Was the man and he dog's owner relevantly related to each other? If so, were them boyfriend and girlfriend? Married? Friends? Was him a welcome guest? An unexpected guest? Were them near the dog? Far from the dog? Was the dog barking? Was the dog beginning to bark?

was there something relevant on the floor? Relevant the relative position of the dog and the man? If so was the dog in front of him? Being him? Above him? would the puzzle work in a desert? I mean is it necessary that something surround the dog somehow? Was the dog wet? Did they wash the dog?

Did the dog have that sort of "funnel" for dogs? Was the dog smelling something on the floor with the funnel so that any direction he (the dog) takes he scratches the floor? Did the dog have a muzzle?

Would the puzzle work if the statement was: No matter which way the dog went the owner knew he/she (the owner) would be disappointed ?

Was the man moving while talking to the dog?
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Re: (Grip) Canine Conundrum

Postby Grip » Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:53 pm

If so, is it important in that he talked to the dog? yes --> was he maybe try not to be discovered? Was him hidden? Did the dog cause him to be discovered? Did he relevantly have a dog? If so did the dog smell the smell (sorry) of his dog? no to all The dog didn't belong to him, right? correct Relevant who owns the dog? not really Was the owner in the same house as him? yes Was the owner a H/A/F? this A H/A/M? Did he prepared a surprise for the owner of the dog? no Had the dog walked, would he have ruined something? no Damaged him? no Provoke him an embarrassment? no Was the dog looking at him? yes, but not exclusively Had the dog walked would he have revealed something? when the dog walked he would reveal something, YES Make noise? Begin to run? no to rest

Was the dog's owner talking? yes Were the dog's owner and the man both talking to the dog? YES Was the man and he dog's owner relevantly related to each other? no If so, were them boyfriend and girlfriend? Married? Friends? this Was him a welcome guest? yes An unexpected guest? Were them near the dog? yes Far from the dog? Was the dog barking? Was the dog beginning to bark? no to rest


was there something relevant on the floor? no Relevant the relative position of the dog and the man? yesish If so was the dog in front of him? yes Being him? Above him? would the puzzle work in a desert? yes I mean is it necessary that something surround the dog somehow? no Was the dog wet? Did they wash the dog? no to both

Did the dog have that sort of "funnel" for dogs? Was the dog smelling something on the floor with the funnel so that any direction he (the dog) takes he scratches the floor? Did the dog have a muzzle? no to all

Would the puzzle work if the statement was: No matter which way the dog went the owner knew he/she (the owner) would be disappointed ? no

Was the man moving while talking to the dog? NO
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Re: (Grip) Canine Conundrum

Postby Earnest » Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:29 pm

is one of the two saying the dog not to do something, while the other to do it? Was the presence of the dog hiding something to his owner? Was the dog laid down?In a dog basket? Was the man hiding something to the owner through the dog somehow? Were any part of the man's body in plain sight ? If not were his hands hidden by the dog?

Was the man moving while talking to the dog? NO-->Was the owner? Was the light turned off? Relevant? I was thinking to something like the man had the perfume of the owner...
Had the man moved would he have obtained the same (bad) result as the one he would have obtained if the dog had moved?

was the dog in front of him? yes -->was the dog looking at him? At the owner? Relevant?
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Re: (Grip) Canine Conundrum

Postby SurfingPikachu » Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:48 am

Was the man calling the dog? Was the dog's owner calling the dog? Did the dog move because one of the humans was calling it? Was the man disappointed because he just found out something about the dog? Was the dog disabled in some way?
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Re: (Grip) Canine Conundrum

Postby Grip » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:59 pm

is one of the two saying the dog not to do something, while the other to do it? Was the presence of the dog hiding something to his owner? Was the dog laid down?In a dog basket? Was the man hiding something to the owner through the dog somehow? no to these Were any part of the man's body in plain sight? yes If not were his hands hidden by the dog?

Was the man moving while talking to the dog? NO-->Was the owner? NO Was the light turned off? no Relevant? no I was thinking to something like the man had the perfume of the owner...
Had the man moved would he have obtained the same (bad) result as the one he would have obtained if the dog had moved? no, the whole design was to get the dog to move...

was the dog in front of him? yes -->was the dog looking at him? yes, at times At the owner? yes, at times Relevant? yesish

-------

Was the man calling the dog? YES Was the dog's owner calling the dog? YES Did the dog move because one of the humans was calling it? eventually it will, YES Was the man disappointed because he just found out something about the dog? not yet, but he will be when the dog moves... Was the dog disabled in some way? no
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Re: (Grip) Canine Conundrum

Postby Earnest » Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:48 am

was the dog sitting on something? did the dog crush something?
In calling the dog, did they (the owner and the man) want the dog to come to their side respectively? So the relevant part is NOT whether the dog will go toward the man or his owner, but what will happened when he will move in order to reach one of the two right? Relevant if the dog was seated or was standing? If the dog was standing, was him on two legs or on four legs? If he was on two legs, did he have two legs on something relevant? If on the contrary he was seated, would he have done a relevant damage in standing up?

Relevant the reason why the owner and the man were calling him? Because he was doing something wrong?

The statement is that the man will be disappointed but not the owner...so is a relevant item belonging to the man relevantly and negatively involved? Is it relevant the "status" of owner of the dog...I mean was the man the owner of the dog would he be disappointed as well? In calling the dog, had the owner and the man two different aims? Are the dog's potty relevant? (sorry I needed to ask)

Relevant in which way they were calling the dog? By name? With a whistle? Did they want the dog to do something apart from moving? I mean something like running and taking a stick ? Or maybe they have already thrown the stick and want the dog to recover it and to bering to them?
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Re: (Grip) Canine Conundrum

Postby SurfingPikachu » Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:27 pm

I'm a little confused by several things.

First, "he knew he would be disappointed". Not "might be", but "would be". If I knew I definitely would be disappointed at some future time, and I knew what would cause this disappointment, then by extension I would already be disappointed at the present time. (Unless we're talking about "Probabilistically speaking, I will almost certainly be disappointed at least one more time before I die.")

This ties in with these two answers:
"Was the man disappointed because he just found out something about the dog? not yet, but he will be when the dog moves..."
"Was he disappointed because he foresaw something? no"
Both of which make it sound like the man will be disappointed, but he does not yet know that he will be disappointed.

So what's going on?
Does the man know he might be disappointed when the dog moves? Know he will be disappointed when the dog moves? (Whatever sense that makes) Or does not know he will be disappointed, but it turns out that he does get disappointed when the dog moves?
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Re: (Grip) Canine Conundrum

Postby Grip » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:04 pm

was the dog sitting on something? did the dog crush something? no to both
In calling the dog, did they (the owner and the man) want the dog to come to their side respectively? YES So the relevant part is NOT whether the dog will go toward the man or his owner, but what will happened when he will move in order to reach one of the two right? no, the relevant part is where the dog goes... Relevant if the dog was seated or was standing? no If the dog was standing, was him on two legs or on four legs? two If he was on two legs, did he have two legs on something relevant? If on the contrary he was seated, would he have done a relevant damage in standing up? no to rest

Relevant the reason why the owner and the man were calling him?no, it just sort of happened Because he was doing something wrong? no

The statement is that the man will be disappointed but not the owner...so is a relevant item belonging to the man relevantly and negatively involved? no Is it relevant the "status" of owner of the dog...I mean was the man the owner of the dog would he be disappointed as well? yes, but but unlike the man, she would only be disappointed if the dog went one way over the other In calling the dog, had the owner and the man two different aims? no, they just wanted the dog to come to one of them Are the dog's potty relevant? (sorry I needed to ask) no, sorry you had to ask :)

Relevant in which way they were calling the dog? no By name? yes With a whistle? Did they want the dog to do something apart from moving? no I mean something like running and taking a stick ? no Or maybe they have already thrown the stick and want the dog to recover it and to bering to them? no

----------

I'm a little confused by several things. Sorry, I'll try to clear them up.

First, "he knew he would be disappointed". Not "might be", but "would be". If I knew I definitely would be disappointed at some future time, and I knew what would cause this disappointment, then by extension I would already be disappointed at the present time. (Unless we're talking about "Probabilistic ally speaking, I will almost certainly be disappointed at least one more time before I die.") In this situation, he can't really be disappointed until the dog moves because the two possible disappointments would be for different reasons...

This ties in with these two answers:
"Was the man disappointed because he just found out something about the dog? not yet, but he will be when the dog moves..."
"Was he disappointed because he foresaw something? no"
Both of which make it sound like the man will be disappointed, but he does not yet know that he will be disappointed. He knows, just not in what way...

So what's going on? see above
Does the man know he might be disappointed when the dog moves? Know he will be disappointed when the dog moves? (Whatever sense that makes) yes, just not in which way because the reason for the disappointment would be different depending on the dogs choice or he does get disappointed when the dog moves?

You all have the basic situation: the dog is being called by the both the man and his friend, the dogs owner. They want to see who the dog goes to. But why will the man be disappointed no matter who the dog chooses?
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Re: (Grip) Canine Conundrum

Postby Earnest » Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:49 am

So can we assume that the possible and relevant directions are: the dog goes toward him; the dog goes toward the owner? If so, if the dog went to him, would he be disappointed because he didn't go toward his owner? (e.g. like they were doing a test like they tried to teach the dog just to listen at his owner's voice and recognize it but he didn't) If the dog went toward his owner would he be disappointed because he didn't go toward him understanding that the dog grew up and was able to recognize his owner's voice?

To be sure...would the owner be disappointed if the dog went to her friend?
Is the aim of each of the two that the dog goes toward them respectively? Or was this the original aim of the two until the friend noticed/realized/saw something relevant and didn't want the dog to go toward him anymore? E.g. they both want the dog go their direction but when the dog started to walk the friend noticed something and did not want the dog to go anymore his direction so that he would be disappointed if the dog went toward his owner losing the "challenge" but he would be also disappointed had the dog gone toward his direction having noticed that something.
If it is correct, must we just figure out what that something was? Something that grosses him out? Allergies relevant? Is the way in which the dog was approaching the problem? Something he had in his mouth? In the fur?Ticks (are them visible)? Did the dog relevantly shake himself before moving?
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Re: (Grip) Canine Conundrum

Postby SurfingPikachu » Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:01 pm

"In this situation, he can't really be disappointed until the dog moves because the two possible disappointments would be for different reasons..." Huh, I think I still would be disappointed in this case. But ok, I get what you mean, thanks for clearing that up!

So are either of the disappointments due to:
The dog preferring one person over the other? Him over the owner? The owner over him?
The dog not being loyal enough to obey its owner over other people?
The dog not being trained enough to do something? (e.g. figure out that he has some weed on him)
The dog preferring something in general?
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Re: (Grip) Canine Conundrum

Postby Grip » Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:13 am

So can we assume that the possible and relevant directions are: the dog goes toward him; the dog goes toward the owner? correct If so, if the dog went to him, would he be disappointed because he didn't go toward his owner? yes (e.g. like they were doing a test like they tried to teach the dog just to listen at his owner's voice and recognize it but he didn't) but not because of this If the dog went toward his owner would he be disappointed because he didn't go toward him understanding that the dog grew up and was able to recognize his owner's voice? no

To be sure...would the owner be disappointed if the dog went to her friend? yes
Is the aim of each of the two that the dog goes toward them respectively? yes Or was this the original aim of the two until the friend noticed/realized/saw something relevant and didn't want the dog to go toward him anymore? E.g. they both want the dog go their direction but when the dog started to walk the friend noticed something and did not want the dog to go anymore his direction so that he would be disappointed if the dog went toward his owner losing the "challenge" but he would be also disappointed had the dog gone toward his direction having noticed that something. no, but whew that was a mouthful!
If it is correct, must we just figure out what that something was? Something that grosses him out? Allergies relevant? Is the way in which the dog was approaching the problem? Something he had in his mouth? In the fur?Ticks (are them visible)? Did the dog relevantly shake himself before moving? no to rest

----------


"In this situation, he can't really be disappointed until the dog moves because the two possible disappointments would be for different reasons..." Huh, I think I still would be disappointed in this case. But ok, I get what you mean, thanks for clearing that up! No prob, it'll make sense, I promise!

So are either of the disappointments due to:
The dog preferring one person over the other? YES Him over the owner?YES The owner over him? and YES, that is the "either way."
The dog not being loyal enough to obey its owner over other people? no
The dog not being trained enough to do something? (e.g. figure out that he has some weed on him) no
The dog preferring something in general? see above
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Re: (Grip) Canine Conundrum

Postby Earnest » Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:59 am

no, but whew that was a mouthful! ahhahhaha sorry for my "if statements" :S

to be sure...are there relevant items involved? Or particular situations? Or again just him, the owner and the dog with nothing else relevant (collar,leash,food...)?

so, the solution is something like: he would be disappointed had the dog gone toward him because...and the other way round he would be disappointed had the dog gone toward his owner because (different reason)?

If so, would he be disappointed had the dog gone toward his owner just because as Surfing suggested this would have meant that the dog preferred his owner to him? And now we just need to figure out why he would be disappointed had the dog gone toward him? If so, he would be disappointed had the dog gone toward him because:

A) he was in such a position that, had the dog come toward him he would have fallen

B) he had something on his hand that had fallen and the dog was attracted by the object (maybe food), so that had the dog come toward his direction he probably would have broken (or eaten) that something?

C) the dog would have move toward him for a specific reason that had nothing to do with the fact that he was calling the dog?

D) did he try to call the dog using some expedient that twisted around him?

E) did he just had a shower (or he had new clothes) and the dog would have dirtied him?

F) it would also work in a desert right? So would his disappointment depend on the speed of the dog while eventually approaching him? Or to something related to the reaction of the dog's owner? I mean, would the dog go toward him, the dog's owner would be disappointed. So would him be disappointed by the disappointment of the owner? Something like the dog's owner would have leave the dog to him? They won't be friend anymore?
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Re: (Grip) Canine Conundrum

Postby Grip » Sat Jul 22, 2017 4:30 pm

no, but whew that was a mouthful! ahhahhaha sorry for my "if statements" :S No prob!

to be sure...are there relevant items involved? Or particular situations? Or again just him, the owner and the dog with nothing else relevant (collar,leash,food...)? this

so, the solution is something like: he would be disappointed had the dog gone toward him because...and the other way round he would be disappointed had the dog gone toward his owner because (different reason)? yup!

If so, would he be disappointed had the dog gone toward his owner just because as Surfing suggested this would have meant that the dog preferred his owner to him? YES And now we just need to figure out why he would be disappointed had the dog gone toward him? yup If so, he would be disappointed had the dog gone toward him because:

A) he was in such a position that, had the dog come toward him he would have fallen no

B) he had something on his hand that had fallen and the dog was attracted by the object (maybe food), so that had the dog come toward his direction he probably would have broken (or eaten) that something? no

C) the dog would have move toward him for a specific reason that had nothing to do with the fact that he was calling the dog? no

D) did he try to call the dog using some expedient that twisted around him? no

E) did he just had a shower (or he had new clothes) and the dog would have dirtied him? no

F) it would also work in a desert right? yes So would his disappointment depend on the speed of the dog while eventually approaching him? no Or to something related to the reaction of the dog's owner? noish I mean, would the dog go toward him, the dog's owner would be disappointed. true So would him be disappointed by the disappointment of the owner? noish Something like the dog's owner would have leave the dog to him? They won't be friend anymore? no to both
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Re: (Grip) Canine Conundrum

Postby crisis87 » Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:41 pm

Was the dog called by the owner/friend with their real voices?, or a pre-recorded voice device? had the dog lived with both of them for some time? with the friend alone? did the dog had any "emotional attachment" to the friend? were the owner and friend in response to a question like: "who do you prefer among the two of us?" and they were expecting the dog to stand still?
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Re: (Grip) Canine Conundrum

Postby Earnest » Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:38 am

would the man be disappointed had the dog come toward him because he was concerned about a situation that could happen in that situation? I mean...the dog is a normal medium size dog and the situation which would provoke the man's disappointment is the following: he and the owner calling the dog; the dog preferring him to the owner and running or walking toward him?

Is the man simply calling the dog like: "Come here Fuffy" ? Had the dog come toward him, would the dog notice something? (e.g. he had a particular smell that the dog wasn't able to smell until he come toward the man). To be sure...was the dog between the owner and the man? Or were the owner and the man near each other and the dog was at a certain distance from them and they were calling him? Relevant?
Relevant the reason why they did such a test (toward who the dog would go)? Because they wanted the dog make a choice that they were unable to do? So tat they try out this sort of game and the man would be disappointed had the dog gone toward him because he somehow represent the choice which was "negative for the man"?

Had the dog chosen the man, would the man be forced to do something? To reveal something?

Was the man moving while talking to the dog? NO--> Did he suffer of some disease? Was the owner moving while talking to the dog? was him unable to move? Did he want to move? Would the man disappointed because had the dog come toward him he would be forced to move?
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Re: (Grip) Canine Conundrum

Postby SurfingPikachu » Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:44 pm

Was he a dog trainer? Dog breeder? Had he some special relationship to the dog other than "owner's friend"? Had he some special relationship to the friend other than friend?
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Re: (Grip) Canine Conundrum

Postby Grip » Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:31 pm

Was the dog called by the owner/friend with their real voices? yes or a pre-recorded voice device? had the dog lived with both of them for some time? no, just with the owner with the friend alone? did the dog had any "emotional attachment" to the friend? YES were the owner and friend in response to a question like: "who do you prefer among the two of us?" and they were expecting the dog to stand still? no

_______________________

would the man be disappointed had the dog come toward him because he was concerned about a situation that could happen in that situation? no I mean...the dog is a normal medium size dog and the situation which would provoke the man's disappointment is the following: he and the owner calling the dog; the dog preferring him to the owner and running or walking toward him?

Is the man simply calling the dog like: "Come here Fuffy" ? yes, as is the friend Had the dog come toward him, would the dog notice something? (e.g. he had a particular smell that the dog wasn't able to smell until he come toward the man). To be sure...was the dog between the owner and the man? no Or were the owner and the man near each other and the dog was at a certain distance from them and they were calling him? yes Relevant? yes, but for reasons already found out
Relevant the reason why they did such a test (toward who the dog would go)? no, they just ended up calling her at the same time and decided to see who she would go to Because they wanted the dog make a choice that they were unable to do? no So tat they try out this sort of game and the man would be disappointed had the dog gone toward him because he somehow represent the choice which was "negative for the man"? no

Had the dog chosen the man, would the man be forced to do something? To reveal something? no to both, his disappointment would be only on a intellectual level/emotional level

Was the man moving while talking to the dog? NO--> Did he suffer of some disease? Was the owner moving while talking to the dog? was him unable to move? Did he want to move? Would the man disappointed because had the dog come toward him he would be forced to move? no to all

____________________

Was he a dog trainer? no Dog breeder? no Had he some special relationship to the dog other than "owner's friend"? yes, he loved the dog, also he grew close to the dog as he sometimes took her home to watch her when the friend was away Had he some special relationship to the friend other than friend? no
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Re: (Grip) Canine Conundrum

Postby Earnest » Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:10 am

was him the owner of a dog as well? Maybe of the mother of her friend's dog?

Had the dog gone toward him, would he be disappointed because he knew that when they went home if he and her friend called the dog he would go to him? I mean, is it something like his disappointment derives not from that specific situation (not from the fact that the dog would go toward him in that specific situation) but from the fact that he knew that the dog would have gone toward him had he called when home? (supposing that he and his friend are neighbors)

he loved the dog, also he grew close to the dog as he sometimes took her home to watch her when the friend was away---> was him happy to have the dog in his house in such situations? did they have problems with the dog in that he recognized his home as the one of the man and the man as the owner? If so di they know that or did they discover it while doing this sort of "test"? I mean, they both don't want the dog to go toward the man right? But at least one of the two is happy if the dog went toward the girl or in another way...so I suppose that there are troubles in the dog having a relationship with the man, right?
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Re: (Grip) Canine Conundrum

Postby SurfingPikachu » Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:59 pm

Was he disappointed because he would be ultimately unable to keep the dog anyway?
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Re: (Grip) Canine Conundrum

Postby Grip » Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:26 pm

was him the owner of a dog as well? Maybe of the mother of her friend's dog? no to both, another reason he grew fond of his friends dog

Had the dog gone toward him, would he be disappointed because he knew that when they went home if he and her friend called the dog he would go to him? I mean, is it something like his disappointment derives not from that specific situation (not from the fact that the dog would go toward him in that specific situation) but from the fact that he knew that the dog would have gone toward him had he called when home? (supposing that he and his friend are neighbors) no

he loved the dog, also he grew close to the dog as he sometimes took her home to watch her when the friend was away---> was him happy to have the dog in his house in such situations? yes did they have problems with the dog in that he recognized his home as the one of the man and the man as the owner? no If so did they know that or did they discover it while doing this sort of "test"? no I mean, they both don't want the dog to go toward the man right? But at least one of the two is happy if the dog went toward the girl or in another way...so I suppose that there are troubles in the dog having a relationship with the man, right? no, the girl would be disappointed only if the dog went to her friend because as the dogs "mother" she should go to her, the man will be disappointed no matter who the dog chooses
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Re: (Grip) Canine Conundrum

Postby Grip » Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:26 pm

Was he disappointed because he would be ultimately unable to keep the dog anyway? no
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Re: (Grip) Canine Conundrum

Postby irishelk » Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:34 am

Okay, to be sure that I understand so far: the owner and the friend just happen to, coincidentally, call the dog at the same time? And if the dog goes to the owner, the friend sill be disappointed because it is confirmation that the dog prefers the owner, right? But the friend will also be disappointed if the dog comes to him, for reasons undetermined?

((Sorry, just swooping in at the last moment.))

Does his disappointment have anything to do with his concern for the owner's feelings? Or his concern about what might happen as a consequence of his friend's feelings if the dog prefers him?

Does he know that he cannot keep the dog? Therefore if the dog prefers him, he knows that both he and the dog will be unhappy?

Will his disappointment be in the dog itself? I.e., he's disappointed that the dog could be so dumb as to come to whoever calls it, rather than its master? Is some kind of idea or theory of his disproved if the dog comes to him?
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Re: (Grip) Canine Conundrum

Postby Grip » Sat Aug 19, 2017 3:09 pm

Okay, to be sure that I understand so far: the owner and the friend just happen to, coincidentally, call the dog at the same time? yup And if the dog goes to the owner, the friend sill be disappointed because it is confirmation that the dog prefers the owner, right? correct But the friend will also be disappointed if the dog comes to him, for reasons undetermined? correct, that is the last thing to puzzle out

((Sorry, just swooping in at the last moment.)) 'Tis okay, activity had slowed down

Does his disappointment have anything to do with his concern for the owner's feelings? noish Or his concern about what might happen as a consequence of his friend's feelings if the dog prefers him? no

Does he know that he cannot keep the dog? yes Therefore if the dog prefers him, he knows that both he and the dog will be unhappy? no

Will his disappointment be in the dog itself? yes I.e., he's disappointed that the dog could be so dumb as to come to whoever calls it, rather than its master? but not that, though, lol Is some kind of idea or theory of his disproved if the dog comes to him? YES
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Re: (Grip) Canine Conundrum

Postby Earnest » Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:12 pm

something concerning the sex of the dog? A theory concerning the tone of his voice when calling the dog? A theory about the recognition of the owner?
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Re: (Grip) Canine Conundrum

Postby irishelk » Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:54 pm

If the dog came to him, would that signify that the dog likes him when he thought it didn't? That it prefers him when he thought it didn't? Is his theory simply that the dog prefers the owner? Or does the dog coming to him somehow signify that the dog does not like him? Does he think it will mean that the dog is disabled in any way? Sick? Old?

Is it that he can't keep the dog but has consoled himself with the fact that the dog probably prefers its owner anyway? And this consolation would be proved untrue?
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Re: (Grip) Canine Conundrum

Postby Grip » Sun Aug 27, 2017 4:50 pm

something concerning the sex of the dog? no A theory concerning the tone of his voice when calling the dog? no A theory about the recognition of the owner? noish

---

If the dog came to him, would that signify that the dog likes him when he thought it didn't? no That it prefers him when he thought it didn't? no Is his theory simply that the dog prefers the owner? YESISH, explore Or does the dog coming to him somehow signify that the dog does not like him? no Does he think it will mean that the dog is disabled in any way? Sick? Old? no to rest

Is it that he can't keep the dog but has consoled himself with the fact that the dog probably prefers its owner anyway? And this consolation would be proved untrue? no to both, he's attached to the dog, but has no desire to take her away from her owner
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Re: (Grip) Canine Conundrum

Postby Grip » Thu Sep 07, 2017 4:20 pm

Hint: What is something that dogs are noted and beloved for?
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Re: (Grip) Canine Conundrum

Postby Grip » Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:00 am

I'm going to go ahead and spoil as I can't devote as much to it as I'd like:

**** SPOILER ****

The man will be disappointed one way or another no matter who the dog chooses to go to. If it goes to the owner, he'll feel hurt since he loves the dog as much as her. If the dog comes to him he'll be upset because it would show his firm belief that a dog is loyal to his or her master above all to be wrong.
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Re: (Grip) Canine Conundrum (SOLVED)

Postby Earnest » Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:24 am

oh wow yes...thanks Grip...I feel embarrassed since I have a dog too!!!
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