[WiZ] I hope you like adjectives

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[WiZ] I hope you like adjectives

Postby WiZ » Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:03 pm

A small class of university students sits a difficult assessment. They demonstrate great applied knowledge of the subject matter and collaborative work. They all receive excellent scores. The lecture (on a similar subject) the following day is intense, and everyone is highly engaged.

However, behind the scenes, the assessment is immediately radically overhauled. Why?
Last edited by WiZ on Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [WiZ] I hope you like adjectives

Postby Balin » Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:28 pm

We don't use "assessment" in the US (or at least I've never heard of it) - is that like a test? A subject review?
Relevant that it is a small class? Is the class size relevant?
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Re: [WiZ] I hope you like adjectives

Postby WiZ » Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:03 pm

We don't use "assessment" in the US (or at least I've never heard of it) Two countries separated by a common language and all that - is that like a test? yes A subject review? no
Relevant that it is a small class? yesish Is the class size relevant? this would be unlikely to happen with a medium or large class; although not logically impossible
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Re: [WiZ] I hope you like adjectives

Postby biograd » Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:33 pm

So it was an exam where students were allowed to talk among each other about the answers (I'm guessing from the fact that they did "collaborative work")? Was it an oral exam? or written? Did the students receive individual grades? or did each group that collaborated get one single grade? Relevant?

When you say it was "radically overhauled" the next day, did you mean that the grades for that class were changed? or that the professor made sure to rephrase the questions before the assessment was given again (for example, to the next year's class)?

Did the students ask questions in the following day's lecture that showed they were badly mistaken about something that had been asked on the exam? in such a way that they still coincidentally got the questions on the exam right, but while not really understanding what they were talking about?
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Re: [WiZ] I hope you like adjectives

Postby WiZ » Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:35 pm

So it was an exam where students were allowed to talk among each other about the answers (I'm guessing from the fact that they did "collaborative work")? during the test? no Was it an oral exam? no or written? yes Did the students receive individual grades? yes or did each group that collaborated get one single grade? no Relevant? yes

When you say it was "radically overhauled" the next day, did you mean that the grades for that class were changed? no or that the professor made sure to rephrase the questions before the assessment was given again (for example, to the next year's class)? this is closer, but the changes transcend 'rephrasing the questions'

Did the students ask questions in the following day's lecture that showed they were badly mistaken about something that had been asked on the exam? no in such a way that they still coincidentally got the questions on the exam right, but while not really understanding what they were talking about? incorrect
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Re: [WiZ] I hope you like adjectives

Postby Balin » Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:40 pm

Were students allowed to discuss the exam beforehand? After? In between parts of the exam? Between the exam and the lecture?
Did the students discuss the exam beforehand? After? In between parts of the exam? Between the exam and the lecture?
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Re: [WiZ] I hope you like adjectives

Postby WiZ » Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:55 pm

Were students allowed to discuss the exam beforehand? yes, FAs lurking After? yes, but irrelevant In between parts of the exam? no Between the exam and the lecture? yes, but irrelevant
Did the students discuss the exam beforehand? yes, FAs lurking After? yes, but irrelevant In between parts of the exam? no Between the exam and the lecture? yes, but irrelevant
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Re: [WiZ] I hope you like adjectives

Postby Balin » Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:33 am

Did the students know in advance what the assessment would be covering? The general topic? The exact questions? Was the assessment reused from a previous class (or more than one previous class)?
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Re: [WiZ] I hope you like adjectives

Postby WiZ » Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:59 am

Did the students know in advance what the assessment would be covering? The general topic? Yes, they knew the general topic (due primarily to having just studied it) The exact questions? no to rest Was the assessment reused from a previous class (or more than one previous class)? no
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Re: [WiZ] I hope you like adjectives

Postby Balin » Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:08 am

Did the students discuss the assessment with each other? With the teacher/proctor/administrator?
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Re: [WiZ] I hope you like adjectives

Postby WiZ » Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:10 am

Did the students discuss the assessment with each other? yes With the teacher/proctor/administrator? no
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Re: [WiZ] I hope you like adjectives

Postby Balin » Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:27 am

Was every student instructed in the entire material covered in the assessment?
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Re: [WiZ] I hope you like adjectives

Postby WiZ » Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:28 am

Was every student instructed in the entire material covered in the assessment? Yes
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Re: [WiZ] I hope you like adjectives

Postby Balin » Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:37 am

Is the exact subject(s) covered in the assessment relevant?
Age of the students relevant? Are they in university?
Was the following lecture on material previously covered? Asked in the assessment? Was one or the other found to be redundant?
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Re: [WiZ] I hope you like adjectives

Postby WiZ » Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:39 am

Is the exact subject(s) covered in the assessment relevant? yes
Age of the students relevant? yesish Are they in university? yes (it's also possible that they were high school seniors - although the rural high school I went to didn't teach anything to this level of sophistication...)
Was the following lecture on material previously covered? not exactly Asked in the assessment? no Was one or the other found to be redundant? no
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Re: [WiZ] I hope you like adjectives

Postby Balin » Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:41 am

Subject: math? Science? Language? History? Something in the arts?
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Re: [WiZ] I hope you like adjectives

Postby WiZ » Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:42 am

Subject: math? no Science? no Language? no History? no Something in the arts? yes
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Re: [WiZ] I hope you like adjectives

Postby Hobbsicle » Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:46 am

Arts: Painting? Drawing? Sculpture? Graphic art? Theater? Film? Music? Dance? Creative writing?

Was the assessment overhauled in a way that affected the students who took it? The students who would later take it? Was it done in response to seeing the assessment results? Seeing the assessment as it was taking place? Something inherent in the test that could have been anticipated?

If they had done more poorly, would it still have been overhauled? Was the assessment seen to be ineffective at assessing what it was intended to?
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Re: [WiZ] I hope you like adjectives

Postby peter365 » Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:20 am

Was there any suggestions of cheating? Plagiarism ?

Was the assessment some sort of expirement?
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Re: [WiZ] I hope you like adjectives

Postby WiZ » Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:49 pm

Hobbsicle

Arts: Painting? Drawing? Sculpture? Graphic art? Theater? Film? Music? Dance? Creative writing? no to all

Was the assessment overhauled in a way that affected the students who took it? no The students who would later take it? yes Was it done in response to seeing the assessment results? yes Seeing the assessment as it was taking place? no Something inherent in the test that could have been anticipated? yesish, although this is less important

If they had done more poorly, would it still have been overhauled? no Was the assessment seen to be ineffective at assessing what it was intended to? no; arguably quite the opposite

Peter

Was there any suggestions of cheating? Big yope Plagiarism ? no

Was the assessment some sort of expirement? By whom?
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Re: [WiZ] I hope you like adjectives

Postby LemonCurry » Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:32 am

Were the students showing skills they were not supposed to have? Was it considered dangerous to have students acquire such skills? Are politics involved? Time and place relevant?
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Re: [WiZ] I hope you like adjectives

Postby GalFisk » Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:58 am

Did something get out of hand? Is the Stanford prison experiment relevant? Other psychological experiment?
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Re: [WiZ] I hope you like adjectives

Postby WiZ » Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:34 pm

LemonCurry

Were the students showing skills they were not supposed to have? no; at least, a no to 'have' Was it considered dangerous to have students acquire such skills? no Are politics involved? not *politics*, but ORT Time and place relevant? no

GalFisk

Did something get out of hand? arguably Is the Stanford prison experiment relevant? no, but very much ORT Other psychological experiment? yes, FA lurking
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Re: [WiZ] I hope you like adjectives

Postby biograd » Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:03 pm

Was there a creative element to the test (i.e. not something that had a "right answer", but something that asked the students to create something of their own, e.g. a poem)? If so, did some of the students use this creative license to vent frustration at the class? or at the professors?

Going along a different line of thinking, was the test written in such a way so as to make it easy to identify cheating? Like for instance, it asked questions that were written to have no answer at all (e.g. "in what time period was Histrionic Stoicism the dominant art style?") and if people were cheating off each other's test, they would all make up the same fake answer?
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Re: [WiZ] I hope you like adjectives

Postby WiZ » Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:18 pm

Was there a creative element to the test (i.e. not something that had a "right answer", but something that asked the students to create something of their own, e.g. a poem)? no If so, did some of the students use this creative license to vent frustration at the class? or at the professors? no to these

Going along a different line of thinking, was the test written in such a way so as to make it easy to identify cheating? no, there were no 'traps', as such - although the format did make the yope-cheating immediately evident Like for instance, it asked questions that were written to have no answer at all (e.g. "in what time period was Histrionic Stoicism the dominant art style?") no, the questions were genuine and had answers knowable to the students and if people were cheating off each other's test, they would all make up the same fake answer? no, but ORT
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Re: [WiZ] I hope you like adjectives

Postby Enjay » Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:37 pm

Did the students all or nearly all give the same answers?

Did the test require short factual answers? Longer essay style answers? A non-written element to the answer, like a diagram or something practical? Did the students answer the test in the way that they were intended to? Did they find some kind of loophole? Something along the lines of a test that says "can you name the first 10 presidents" and they replied "no" which was technically correct (obviously a little simple for a college exam but that kind of idea...)?

Did something about the way the students performed on the test show that they had taken the subject matter on board, but in a way other than by them just answering the test well?

Did the assessment get overhauled to stop future students doing something that these students had done? If the overhauling achieved its desired aim, would future students score as highly on the assessment as these did? Worse? Better? As well but for different reasons? Was it overhauled to avoid some negative effect on the students?

Edited to add - were they studying psychology? Is the relevant psychological experiment one that they were being tested on? That they had learned about? Did they exploit some element of psychology to get good results?
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Re: [WiZ] I hope you like adjectives

Postby WiZ » Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:16 pm

Did the students all yes or nearly all give the same answers?

Did the test require short factual answers? no Longer essay style answers? stronger no A non-written element to the answer yes, like a diagram or something practical? but not these Did the students answer the test in the way that they were intended to? they gave the style of response that was required, but chose their responses in an unintended manner Did they find some kind of loophole? yes Something along the lines of a test that says "can you name the first 10 presidents" and they replied "no" which was technically correct (obviously a little simple for a college exam but that kind of idea...)? no; not this sort of loophole

Did something about the way the students performed on the test show that they had taken the subject matter on board, but in a way other than by them just answering the test well? yes, very good

Did the assessment get overhauled to stop future students doing something that these students had done? yes If the overhauling achieved its desired aim, would future students score as highly on the assessment as these did? no Worse? in most cases Better? no As well but for different reasons? no Was it overhauled to avoid some negative effect on the students? no

Edited to add - were they studying psychology? no, but strongly ORT. In fact, this may also work Is the relevant psychological experiment one that they were being tested on? yes That they had learned about? yes Did they exploit some element of psychology to get good results? yes

NB: For the above answers, 'psychology' and 'psychological experiment' are yesishly what they are studying and being tested on - the 'yes' is a response to your questions in relation to these.

Also, excellent round of questions, Enjay.
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Re: [WiZ] I hope you like adjectives

Postby Enjay » Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:22 pm

Was the test multiple choice? (If not, ignore questions below...)

If so, did they guess or predict a pattern that the answers would take? Eg they knew that whoever set the test would probably want an equal number of As, Bs etc so chose accordingly?

Was the test set by the teacher? Relevant? Were they exploiting some aspect of the psychology of the person who set the test? The person who marked it?

During the lecture the next day did they discuss the test? Did they discuss the way in which they had answered it?
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Re: [WiZ] I hope you like adjectives

Postby WiZ » Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:36 pm

Was the test multiple choice? yes (If not, ignore questions below...)

If so, did they guess or predict a pattern that the answers would take? Eg they knew that whoever set the test would probably want an equal number of As, Bs etc so chose accordingly? no

Was the test set by the teacher? yes Relevant? not especially Were they exploiting some aspect of the psychology of the person who set the test? no The person who marked it? no

During the lecture the next day did they discuss the test? yes Did they discuss the way in which they had answered it? and yes
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Re: [WiZ] I hope you like adjectives

Postby Enjay » Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:45 pm

Is any more relevant about the exact format other than that it was multiple choice? Is it relevant how the students selected the answer they wanted? Was it a test that gets scanned and marked by a machine?

Did the students agree beforehand that they would all answer the same? Did they choose the same answer for every question?

Is grading on a curve relevant? Did they realise that if they all got the exact same score, none if them would do badly compared to the others? Is game theory or the prisoner's dilemma relevant?

Did the students get all the answers right? Most of them?
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Re: [WiZ] I hope you like adjectives

Postby WiZ » Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:55 pm

Is any more relevant about the exact format other than that it was multiple choice? The format? No Is it relevant how the students selected the answer they wanted? yes Was it a test that gets scanned and marked by a machine? irrelevant, but probably not

Did the students agree beforehand that they would all answer the same? yes, very good Did they choose the same answer for every question? yes

Is grading on a curve relevant? yes! Did they realise that if they all got the exact same score, none if them would do badly compared to the others? yes! Is game theory or the prisoner's dilemma yes, this! relevant?

Did the students get all the answers right? no Most of them? no

***** SPOILER *****

The students were in a philosophy class, and had recently studied the Prisoner's Dilemma and similar ethical stratagems. They were then set a multi-choice test on the subject, which was graded to a curve. The students colluded perfectly to all answer 'A' to every question, and, by virtue of no student reneging on this agreement, were able to obtain universally perfect scores.

So, while they demonstrated great teamwork and applied knowledge of the subject matter, this was an unacceptable outcome. The test was subsequently overhauled.


Well done, Enjay, on the solution (and a truly excellent spate of questioning), and thank you everyone for playing.
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Re: [WiZ] I hope you like adjectives [CURVE WRECKED]

Postby biograd » Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:07 pm

For what it's worth, in my opinion game theory is probably one of the least "artsy" things one can study. It's built on everyone acting perfectly logically. Not that I would have gotten the answer any sooner had I not been misled by that, though :)
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Re: [WiZ] I hope you like adjectives [CURVE WRECKED]

Postby WiZ » Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:15 pm

A fair point. I was thinking in terms of the faculty that would teach it and the nature of the degree it would accredit towards (I studied this in first-year Philosophy, contributing towards a Bachelor of Arts).
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