[WiZ] Circular Logic

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[WiZ] Circular Logic

Postby WiZ » Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:28 pm

Ariel is a government employee. Several times a week, she checks for circles. If she finds a circle, she issues a fine to someone who probably had nothing to do with the circle. Explain.
Last edited by WiZ on Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [WiZ] Circular Logic

Postby invisiblemimsy » Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:13 am

Method of checking: by phone, computer, looking or listening? Number of times a week = 2 3 4 5 6? Does it vary? Specific days of the week? Conditional on something? Size of fine relevant?
Circles = actual circles, or something circular?
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Re: [WiZ] Circular Logic

Postby GalFisk » Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:56 am

Circle: zero? The letter o? Some other symbol? Donut? Tyre track? Washer? Nut? A marking on a surface? An object? A hole? Coffee mug stain? Other circular stain? Is the fine issued to a person? A business? A government entity? Does she often find circles? Does she find other shapes? Is the fine meant to prevent the existence of these circles in the place she looks for them? To encourage removal of the circles? To pay for damage? To pay for removal?
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Re: [WiZ] Circular Logic

Postby irishelk » Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:52 pm

Is the circle's presence caused by a person? If so, is the one fined associated with this person? Responsible for their actions? A parent? An employer?
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Re: [WiZ] Circular Logic

Postby Earnest » Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:18 pm

Is parking relevant? Oil spots on the ground of cars which were previously parked there?
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Re: [WiZ] Circular Logic

Postby WiZ » Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:53 am

InvisibleMimsy

Method of checking: by phone, computer, looking this; no to rest or listening? Number of times a week = 2 3 4 5 6? see next Does it vary? yes Specific days of the week? yes Conditional on something? no Size of fine relevant? specifically, no; generically, yesish
Circles = actual circles yes, or something circular? no

GalFisk

Circle: zero? The letter o? Some other symbol? Donut? Tyre track? Washer? Nut? no to all A marking on a surface? yes An object? A hole? Coffee mug stain? Other circular stain? no to all Is the fine issued to a person? yes A business? A government entity? no to rest Does she often find circles? more often than she'd like, but probably not 'often' Does she find other shapes? no Is the fine meant to prevent the existence of these circles in the place she looks for them? To encourage removal of the circles? To pay for damage? this is closest To pay for removal?

IrishElk

Is the circle's presence caused by a person? yes If so, is the one fined associated with this person? yes Responsible for their actions? Yes, extrinsically speaking A parent? yes An employer? no

Earnest

Is parking relevant? no Oil spots on the ground of cars which were previously parked there? no
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Re: [WiZ] Circular Logic

Postby Earnest » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:33 am

So is the circle caused by babies? Children in general? ...hope it is not like pissing in a swimming pool or something like that...

Is the circle appearing in front of her? Is the circle drawn? Like children playing that game which involves drawing circles on the street with chalks...?
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Re: [WiZ] Circular Logic

Postby GalFisk » Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:19 pm

Is the circle a scratch? A dent? Something trampled? Something drawn? Sprayed? Is it a wet spot? Is it bigger than 1mm? 10? 100? 1000? Is it on a flat surface? Horizontal? Does the child intend to make the circle?
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Re: [WiZ] Circular Logic

Postby biograd » Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:40 pm

Is the circle drawn on a piece of paper?

Is the circle created by the child himself or herself (like a circled multiple choice answer on a test)? or by someone else in response to the behavior of the child (for instance a teacher circling the days that a student was absent from class)?
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Re: [WiZ] Circular Logic

Postby WiZ » Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:46 pm

Earnest

So is the circle caused by babies? Children in general? this ...hope it is not like pissing in a swimming pool or something like that... it's not (as impressive as peeing in a perfect circle while submerged in liquid would be)

Is the circle appearing in front of her? yes, I think Is the circle drawn? yes Like children playing that game which involves drawing circles on the street with chalks...? but no to this

GalFisk

Is the circle a scratch? A dent? Something trampled? no to these Something drawn? yes Sprayed? Is it a wet spot? no to both Is it bigger than 1mm? 10? yes to both 100? 1000? no to both Is it on a flat surface? yes Horizontal? sometimes Does the child intend to make the circle? yes

Biograd

Is the circle drawn on a piece of paper? yes

Is the circle created by the child himself or herself yes (like a circled multiple choice answer on a test)? But not this or by someone else in response to the behavior of the child (for instance a teacher circling the days that a student was absent from class)? no
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Re: [WiZ] Circular Logic

Postby invisiblemimsy » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:39 pm

To pay for removal of the circles? Were the circles outlines, or filled-in? Does she fine the teachers or the parents? Do the circles vary in size? Does it matter what makes the circles? Is it a substance? Does the circle appear while she watches? Does the circle remain, or can it be removed somehow? Burn marks? Is the circle made in a certain lesson or lessons? Presumably the circles are not made at the weekend? Does every child make circles?
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Re: [WiZ] Circular Logic

Postby Earnest » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:40 pm

Is the circle a perfect circle made through a compass? Did she made the parent pay a fee just in some cases? like when the paper has a hole meaning that the child has pressed too much on the compass maybe scratching the desk under the paper? Streets? In one paper is there a single circle ir more than one? Is the circle simply a curcle? A colored circle? If so relevant the color?

Is the paper where the circle is usually a classic A4 paper? Is the circle a target? Does Ariel work in schools? In places usually where children are? Parks? Beach? Is the circle a symbol? Something illegal? Hjstorical period relevant? Plcae relevant? Is the circle drawn for a reason? Drawn with a pen? With a pencil? Is the paper used for solething? Put somewhere? Is the cicrcle the only thing drawn in the paper or does the circle complete a pre esisting drawing on the paper making it ambiguous?
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Re: [WiZ] Circular Logic

Postby WiZ » Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:03 pm

InvisibleMimsy

To pay for removal of the circles? no, these could be removed at no cost Were the circles outlines yes, or filled-in? no Does she fine the teachers or the parents? the parents Do the circles vary in size? not relevantly Does it matter what makes the circles? for context Is it a substance? probably not in the way you're thinking Does the circle appear while she watches? no Does the circle remain yes, or can it be removed somehow? no Burn marks? no Is the circle made in a certain lesson or lessons? irrelevant, but most likely not Presumably the circles are not made at the weekend? this is reasonably likely Does every child make circles? no

Earnest

Is the circle a perfect circle made through a compass? no Did she made the parent pay a fee just in some cases? no like when the paper has a hole meaning that the child has pressed too much on the compass maybe scratching the desk under the paper? no Streets? no In one paper is there a single circle ir more than one? typically one circle per piece of paper Is the circle simply a curcle? yes A colored circle? not relevantly If so relevant the color? no

Is the paper where the circle is usually a classic A4 paper? yes Is the circle a target? yesish, explore Does Ariel work in schools? yes In places usually where children are? yes Parks? Beach? no to these Is the circle a symbol? no Something illegal? it is breaking a rule, but not a law Hjstorical period relevant? for context Plcae relevant? no Is the circle drawn for a reason? yes Drawn with a pen? yes, or some other indelible implement With a pencil? no Is the paper used for solething? yes Put somewhere? Where the paper usually lives is relevant Is the cicrcle the only thing drawn in the paper yes or does the circle complete a pre esisting drawing on the paper making it ambiguous? no
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Re: [WiZ] Circular Logic

Postby invisiblemimsy » Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:44 am

Are the circles in a school register? Is there a fine for absences? money paid late, such as school fees, dinner money, homework not done etc? Is it a hole punch? A calendar? Historical period: present day? This century, last century 20's, 30's etc), earlier? Is it filter paper, blotting paper, writing paper, art paper? When the rule is broken, is that when the fine is applied? Does the circle cause other consequence/s? Does the rule-breaking? (Apart from the fine).
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Re: [WiZ] Circular Logic

Postby WiZ » Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:17 am

Are the circles in a school register? no Is there a fine for absences? no money paid late, such as school fees, dinner money, homework not done etc? no Is it a hole punch? no A calendar? no Historical period: present day? yes This century, last century 20's, 30's etc), earlier? 1980s-present Is it filter paper, blotting paper, writing paper, art paper? no to all When the rule is broken, is that when the fine is applied? yes Does the circle cause other consequence/s? yes Does the rule-breaking? (Apart from the fine). yes
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Re: [WiZ] Circular Logic

Postby invisiblemimsy » Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:39 am

Is the circle an outline for something? A reason, a symbol? Is it in a book? Does it apply in a certain lesson?
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Re: [WiZ] Circular Logic

Postby WiZ » Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:11 am

Is the circle an outline for something? yes A reason no, a symbol? noish Is it in a book? yes Does it apply in a certain lesson? no
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Re: [WiZ] Circular Logic

Postby Earnest » Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:23 am

Are tge circles in the book of the library? On the cover of books? On all the pages? Is she able to immediately identify the guilty child? Is the circle relevantly colored in pencil? Is the drawn circle colored in inside? Does the circle cover something else relevantly? (E.g. the pages of the book?) Is the circle drawn to be then cut out with scissors to create mini balls?

Target explore...do chikdren target the circle with something like paper mini balls? did ariel see the circles by opebing the books? By looking at what students were doing? Are windows relevant? Are papers removed from books and put somewhere else?
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Re: [WiZ] Circular Logic

Postby biograd » Sat Mar 17, 2018 4:19 pm

Are the books textbooks? other nonfiction books? novels?

Are the circles meant to highlight/mark something to be able to find it later? Is the rule simply that all markings made in books must be in pencil, and erased afterward? so she looks to see which children circled things in pen?
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Re: [WiZ] Circular Logic

Postby irishelk » Sun Mar 18, 2018 2:35 pm

Do the children make the circles in order to play a game? In order to communicate to others? In order to keep track of something? Does this particular book, or type of book, seem to invite a circle to be drawn on it? Does the circle imply that the child has broken or will break another rule?

Is Ariel a teacher? Does she work in a school library? In a public library?
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Re: [WiZ] Circular Logic

Postby WiZ » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:15 pm

Earnest

Are tge circles in the book of the library? yes On the cover of books? no On all the pages? potentially Is she able to immediately identify the guilty child? yes (or in a very short space of time) Is the circle relevantly colored in pencil? no Is the drawn circle colored in inside? no Does the circle cover something else relevantly? no (E.g. the pages of the book?) Is the circle drawn to be then cut out with scissors to create mini balls? no (although Ariel would issue a fine in this instance also)

Target explore...do chikdren target the circle with something like paper mini balls? no did ariel see the circles by opebing the books? yes By looking at what students were doing? no Are windows relevant? They are NoT Are papers removed from books and put somewhere else? no

BioGrad

Are the books textbooks? other nonfiction books? novels? no to all

Are the circles meant to highlight/mark something yes to be able to find it later? no Is the rule simply that all markings made in books must be in pencil, and erased afterward? no so she looks to see which children circled things in pen? no

IrishElk

Do the children make the circles in order to play a game? yes In order to communicate to others? no In order to keep track of something? aaaaarguably Does this particular book, or type of book, seem to invite a circle to be drawn on it? yes Does the circle imply that the child has broken or will break another rule? It more than implies; it is evidence of a rule being broken

Is Ariel a teacher? no Does she work in a school library? yes In a public library? A public school library :)
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Re: [WiZ] Circular Logic

Postby Balin » Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:28 pm

Are the circles O's in tic-tac-toe?
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Re: [WiZ] Circular Logic

Postby WiZ » Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:34 pm

Are the circles O's in tic-tac-toe? No (if I may continue the rhyme scheme)
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Re: [WiZ] Circular Logic

Postby invisiblemimsy » Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:50 pm

Were the circles poked through the pages with a pencil? Were eyes poked through? Were the children identified by the name of the child who last booked out the book, and the parents fined accordingly for the damage?
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Re: [WiZ] Circular Logic

Postby WiZ » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:26 pm

Were the circles poked through the pages with a pencil? no Were eyes poked through? no Were the children identified by the name of the child who last booked out the book, and the parents fined accordingly for the damage? yes
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Re: [WiZ] Circular Logic

Postby invisiblemimsy » Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:46 pm

Actual size of circle is between 10mm and 99mm, if relevant can we have exact size please (LTPF list of numbers) Are they stickers? Is it a round stamp such as one made with an ink pad, perhaps with a date on? Is the circle just drawn?

Just to double check - the books are books which you read? Picture books? Stories? Puzzle books? Printed? Ages of children relevant?

Should we explore what game the children are playing when they make the circles? Crosswords? Wordsearch? A particular word or picture? Any rude word? A rude picture?

Something which began in the 1980's relevant? Computers?
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Re: [WiZ] Circular Logic

Postby WiZ » Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:16 pm

Actual size of circle is between 10mm and 99mm, if relevant can we have exact size please (LTPF list of numbers) Size will vary. roughly 50mm with a normal distribution Are they stickers? no Is it a round stamp such as one made with an ink pad, perhaps with a date on? no Is the circle just drawn? no

Just to double check - the books are books which you read? yesish Picture books? yes Stories? Only in a token sense Puzzle books? Yes Printed? Yes Ages of children relevant? Broadly

Should we explore what game the children are playing when they make the circles? Yes Crosswords? Wordsearch? A particular word no to these or picture? yes Any rude word? A rude picture? no to both, although one edition was censored in the United States for implied background non-sexual nudity. Yes, implied.

Something which began in the 1980's relevant? yes Computers? no
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Re: [WiZ] Circular Logic

Postby invisiblemimsy » Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:55 am

Was it a kind of spot the difference puzzle book? Or spot the items thing?
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Re: [WiZ] Circular Logic

Postby Earnest » Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:21 am

Don't follow the others answers but...did they circled the answers to a book? Wss it a book with solutions? A book to be colored? Did they circle the books with the pen? Was it evident that the circles were hand made? Relevant?
Did they try to do circles that were the most precise as possible? Did they try to reproduce cyrcles which could be seen from a page to the other of the book? Did they end up painting something made of cyrcles on the book?e.g. flowers...

Did the put points on the "i" letter? Did they made concentric cyrcles? Cyrcles near one to the others? Did they make cyr les in turns one per time? All together on the same book? Relevant?
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Re: [WiZ] Circular Logic

Postby WiZ » Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:58 pm

InvisibleMimsy

Was it a kind of spot the difference puzzle book? no Or spot the items thing? yes, this is the general idea

Earnest

Don't follow the others answers but...

Generally, I recommend that you do.

did they circled the answers to a book? arguably, but almost certainly not in the way you're thinking Wss it a book with solutions? see above answer A book to be colored? no Did they circle the books with the pen? part of the book, yes Was it evident that the circles were hand made? yes Relevant? no
Did they try to do circles that were the most precise as possible? no Did they try to reproduce cyrcles which could be seen from a page to the other of the book? no Did they end up painting something made of cyrcles on the book?e.g. flowers... no

Did the put points on the "i" letter? no Did they made concentric cyrcles? no Cyrcles near one to the others? no Did they make cyr les in turns one per time? yes All together on the same book? no - the circles would all appear in the same book, but in different places throughout it Relevant? see above
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Re: [WiZ] Circular Logic

Postby Earnest » Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:05 pm

Did they do cyrcles in different days? One after the other in seconds between one and the other?
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Re: [WiZ] Circular Logic

Postby WiZ » Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:11 pm

Did they do cyrcles in different days? One after the other in seconds between one and the other? No - there is no relevant pattern
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Re: [WiZ] Circular Logic

Postby invisiblemimsy » Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:29 pm

Were they the kind of books where you take them out to the countryside then circle when you see this flower or that tree? Or other different themes, I-Spy I think they’re called? Or something where you just spot items on the page like Where’s Wally/Waldo, or spot the watering can and the secateurs in a picture of a gareden?
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Re: [WiZ] Circular Logic

Postby Earnest » Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:50 pm

Are the cicrles meant to give a message / communicate with the child which will book the book next? Did they relevantly solve the puzzles inside the book? If so by doing the cyrcles? Were they relevantly told not to write on library books?
Do each child make just one cyrcle inside the book? More? Relevant how many? Relevant which puzzles were on the books? Puzzles which can be found in puzzler magazines? Relevant the pages in which the cyrcles were made? Did they add points in a place (page) were there were others points? Were the points relevantly colored in inside? Empty?

Were the cyrcles of different colors? (E.g. one color associated to each child?) Were the points made relevantly at the top of the pages? At the bottom? Randomly inside random pages? Randomly inside some selected pages? Could it work with squares instead of cyrcles? Were the cyrcles meant to: select something? Represent sonething (e.g. CDs...)? Cancel something? Conceal sonething? Complete a picture/scheme? Communicate something? Be a target for someone (children who eill book after?)? Indicate something? Underline sonething? Highlight something?
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Re: [WiZ] Circular Logic

Postby WiZ » Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:55 pm

Where’s Wally/Waldo yes

***** SPOILER *****

Ariel is a school librarian. The library stocks Where's Wally? books. Whenever a child circles Wally on the page, the book is removed from circulation, and the child's parents are billed for a replacement.


Congratulations, InvisibleMimsy, on the solution, and thank you everyone for playing!
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Re: [WiZ] Circular Logic [CANCELLED]

Postby invisiblemimsy » Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:12 pm

Great puzzle! Of course, the book would be useless if Wally were to be in a circle!
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Re: [WiZ] Circular Logic [CANCELLED]

Postby Earnest » Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:40 pm

Did not know the book...anyway very clever puzzle
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Re: [WiZ] Circular Logic [CANCELLED]

Postby JenBurdoo » Wed Mar 21, 2018 12:07 am

Speaking as a children's librarian, this is a good one!
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Re: [WiZ] Circular Logic [CANCELLED]

Postby peter365 » Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:53 am

Brilliantly lateral as ever WiZ
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Re: [WiZ] Circular Logic [CANCELLED]

Postby Hobbsicle » Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:42 am

Love it
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