[IrishElk] The Lake House

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[IrishElk] The Lake House

Postby irishelk » Mon Jul 30, 2018 2:35 pm

What was done by a person in England was replaced by a box in the US. This made men furious, for two reasons.
Last edited by irishelk on Thu Aug 30, 2018 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [IrishElk] The Lake House

Postby wwhere » Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:41 pm

Independence from England and change from Monarchy to Republic relevant? Election of representatives by election (voting in a box) relevant?
When did this happen? XXI century? XX century? XIX century?... (etc)
Was that a specific person (with name and surname), or was it a position/job/role?
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Re: [IrishElk] The Lake House

Postby irishelk » Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:45 pm

wwhere

Independence from England and change from Monarchy to Republic relevant? Vaguely related, but not crucial to the puzzle. Election of representatives by election (voting in a box) relevant? No.
When did this happen? XXI century? XX century? XIX century?... (etc) Late 18th to early 19th.
Was that a specific person (with name and surname), or was it a position/job/role? A role is closest. Many people did it.
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Re: [IrishElk] The Lake House

Postby WiZ » Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:32 am

Is the box a mere container, or is there more to it? Is it some sort of electric or electronic device? Can you relevantly see into the box? Reach into the box?

Were women furious? Did anyone lose their jobs/responsibilities?
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Re: [IrishElk] The Lake House

Postby Westing1992 » Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:55 am

New technologies relevant? Telephone? Telegraph? Radio? Photography? Motion pictures? Electricity?
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Re: [IrishElk] The Lake House

Postby irishelk » Wed Aug 01, 2018 7:26 pm

WiZ

Is the box a mere container, Yes. or is there more to it? It's a specific type.
Is it some sort of electric or electronic device? No. Can you relevantly see into the box? Yes, given the right circumstances. Reach into the box? Yes, given the right circumstances.

Were women furious? No! Good question. Did anyone lose their jobs No. /responsibilities? Yes.


Westing

New technologies relevant? I'll say no, DOYD of technology. Telephone? Telegraph? Radio? Photography? Motion pictures? Electricity? None of these.
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Re: [IrishElk] The Lake House

Postby Westing1992 » Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:50 am

In England, was this thing done by a woman? A man? Did the change make American men furious? English men?

Is this role done today? Is it still done by a box in the US? By a person in England? Is it now done by a box in England?

(Also, I misread the centuries as referring to late 1800s/early 1900s. Whoops.)
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Re: [IrishElk] The Lake House

Postby wolfier » Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:36 am

television relevant? soapboxes? is the box small and light enough to be handled by a single person?
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Re: [IrishElk] The Lake House

Postby irishelk » Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:37 am

Westing1992

In England, was this thing done by a woman? No. A man? Yes. Did the change make American men furious? Yes. English men? Probably not many.

Is this role done today? Yes--the circumstances are different, but someone does perform the activity. Is it still done by a box in the US? Sometimes. By a person in England? Yes. Is it now done by a box in England? Sometimes.

(Also, I misread the centuries as referring to late 1800s/early 1900s. Whoops.) Aren't our dating systems so confusing?


wolfier

television relevant? No. soapboxes? No. is the box small and light enough to be handled by a single person? Hard to Google! I believe most of them were small, but immobile.
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Re: [IrishElk] The Lake House

Postby jumpingjacks » Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:25 pm

Were women just indifferent to it? Or were they actually happy? Was it more convenient for women that the role was done by a box instead of a man? Was it safer for them?
This role is not a job, correct? Did the men who used to do the role (or think they should do the role) angry because they are financially worse off? Because they feel that their power/status is diminished by the box taking over? Is this role related to a domestic setting? ie something a husband would do for his family? for his wife?
Is the primary function of the box to contain something? Does it have any other function? If I were to give you a small, plain, cardboard box, would it be able to fulfil this role?
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Re: [IrishElk] The Lake House

Postby jumpingjacks » Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:26 pm

Is religion relevant? Church?

Ooh and I just noticed the title! Are letters relevant? Letter box? Does the box store letters? at the post office? at the recipient's house?
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Re: [IrishElk] The Lake House

Postby irishelk » Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:57 pm

jumpingjacks

Were women just indifferent to it? Some likely were. Or were they actually happy? Some definitely were. Was it more convenient for women that the role was done by a box instead of a man? Not exactly, but explore. Was it safer for them? No.
This role is not a job, correct? Sometimes it is, but for the men who were doing it it wasn't. Did the men who used to do the role (or think they should do the role) angry because they are financially worse off? No. Because they feel that their power/status is diminished by the box taking over? Very much so, yes. Is this role related to a domestic setting? Yes. ie something a husband would do for his family? Yes. for his wife? Yes, though not exclusively husbands/wives.
Is the primary function of the box to contain something? Yes. Does it have any other function? Only secondary to holding the something. If I were to give you a small, plain, cardboard box, would it be able to fulfil this role? Yes, but not as well as the actual ones. =)

Is religion relevant? Church? No.

Ooh and I just noticed the title! And I thought I was being clever... Are letters relevant? Yes. Letter box? Not the kind on your house, no. Does the box store letters? Yes. at the post office? Yes! at the recipient's house? No.
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Re: [IrishElk] The Lake House

Postby jumpingjacks » Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:06 pm

Did the post box make it easier for women to receive letters unbeknownst to their husbands? Or to send secret letters? Did this make their husbands angry?
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Re: [IrishElk] The Lake House

Postby irishelk » Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:36 pm

jumpingjacks

Did the post box make it easier for women to receive letters unbeknownst to their husbands? Or to send secret letters? Did this make their husbands angry? Yes to all! The 'thing' that was replaced was how women received letters.

Any guesses as to the other reason men got angry about this?
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Re: [IrishElk] The Lake House

Postby jumpingjacks » Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:37 pm

Is this the same group of men being angry for two reasons? Or a separate group of men? Is the second reason related to how men receive their own letters now?
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Re: [IrishElk] The Lake House

Postby irishelk » Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:32 am

jumpingjacks

Is this the same group of men being angry for two reasons? Probably. Or a separate group of men? Some men could be in one group and not the other. Is the second reason related to how men receive their own letters now? Only vaguely.
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Re: [IrishElk] The Lake House

Postby jumpingjacks » Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:35 pm

Is the second reason also related to power/status? Related to them opposing the independence of women?
Or is it related to financial reasons? their own convenience? do they resent having to make a trip to the post office? were they able to do something in the past that they are unable to do now, as a result of the post box?
Just to be clear -- before the post box, a messenger would call at the house with any letters? And the man would receive the letters, and hand them out to members of his family? read them out? But now, women can retrieve their own letters from the post box, so not only does this mean they can receive secret letters, it also.... deprives the man the pleasure of reading aloud? Do they like practising their oration skills? Does the responsibility of being the letter-retriever mean they get out of doing some other task? a task they find unpleasant?
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Re: [IrishElk] The Lake House

Postby irishelk » Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:07 pm

jumpingjacks

Is the second reason also related to power/status? Related to them opposing the independence of women? Yes to both, though they likely wouldn't see it that way.

Or is it related to financial reasons? No. their own convenience? Noish. do they resent having to make a trip to the post office? No. were they able to do something in the past that they are unable to do now, as a result of the post box? No.
Just to be clear -- before the post box, a messenger would call at the house with any letters? Not exactly. And the man would receive the letters, and hand them out to members of his family? read them out? This occurred in places without regular postal delivery. The man would pick up letters from the post office on behalf of his whole family.
But now, women can retrieve their own letters from the post box, so not only does this mean they can receive secret letters, it also.... deprives the man the pleasure of reading aloud? Do they like practising their oration skills? Does the responsibility of being the letter-retriever mean they get out of doing some other task? a task they find unpleasant? No to rest.
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Re: [IrishElk] The Lake House

Postby jumpingjacks » Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:13 pm

Did they just dislike the fact that the post box might encourage women to take part in more regular correspondence with others? And they felt that women would now spend too much time reading and writing, and less time on ministering to their husbands or taking care of household matters?
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Re: [IrishElk] The Lake House

Postby irishelk » Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:47 am

jumpingjacks

Did they just dislike the fact that the post box might encourage women to take part in more regular correspondence with others? No. And they felt that women would now spend too much time reading and writing, and less time on ministering to their husbands or taking care of household matters? This was probably true too, but not the issue I was thinking of...
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Re: [IrishElk] The Lake House

Postby jumpingjacks » Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:52 am

they likely wouldn't see it that way.


Would they see it as them being chivalrous? Did they feel it was unsafe for women to venture out by themselves to retrieve the letters?
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Re: [IrishElk] The Lake House

Postby irishelk » Thu Aug 30, 2018 1:46 pm

jumpingjacks

Would they see it as them being chivalrous? Did they feel it was unsafe for women to venture out by themselves to retrieve the letters? Yes indeed, and specifically to the post office!


************************SPOILER

In 1700s England, many areas did not have regular postal delivery, and typically men would go to the post office to retrieve correspondence; they would also pick up any mail for their wives, daughters, female neighbors, etc. as it was considered the man's responsibility.

When the first post office opened in New York, it featured post office boxes that could be rented by anyone, male or female. Many women, wanting more autonomy over their communications, took advantage of this and started visiting their box regularly. This enraged many men because
1) Now they had no way to spy on "their woman's" mail or prevent her from talking to people, and
2) The post office was initially seen as a male space, where men would drink, smoke, swear, gamble and roughhouse. With women going there constantly, they felt obliged to clean up their act and behave like adults.

Poor things.
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Re: [IrishElk] The Lake House {DELIVERED}

Postby jumpingjacks » Thu Aug 30, 2018 2:20 pm

Thanks for the puzzle! Poor things indeed :lol:
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Re: [IrishElk] The Lake House {DELIVERED}

Postby irishelk » Thu Aug 30, 2018 2:24 pm

Well solved! =)
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Re: [IrishElk] The Lake House {DELIVERED}

Postby invisiblemimsy » Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:38 am

I love this. Wish I'd seen it earlier and taken part. Just one Q: Why is it called Lake House?
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Re: [IrishElk] The Lake House {DELIVERED}

Postby jumpingjacks » Mon Sep 03, 2018 10:57 am

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0410297/ It's a film that revolves around sending and receiving letters =)
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Re: [IrishElk] The Lake House {DELIVERED}

Postby irishelk » Mon Sep 03, 2018 12:29 pm

Exactly. Protip: all my titles are film titles, and all have something to do with the solution, usually in such a roundabout way that they are no help whatsoever.
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Re: [IrishElk] The Lake House {DELIVERED}

Postby invisiblemimsy » Mon Sep 03, 2018 4:01 pm

Very cool.
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