Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

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Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby CoffeeBean » Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:44 pm

Riley stands just a few feet away from Norm. After a few seconds, Norm speaks to Riley, then walks away. Riley never sees Norm again.

Then, Andrew walks up to Riley, threatens him, then walks away. Riley never sees Andrew again. A short time later, Riley is shot and killed.

What is going on?
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby wwhere » Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:33 am

Riley, H/A/M ?
Norm, H/A/M ?
Andrew, H/A/M ?

Does Riley see Norm when Norm speaks to Riley?
Does Riley see Andrew when Andrew threatens Riley?

The 'short time later', is it seconds? minutes? hours? days?

Does Andrew shot and kill Riley? Does Norm shot and kill Riley?

Does Riley die because of being shot?

When you say "Riley is shot", does that mean someone (or several people) shot at him with firearms? or is he shot from a cannon or something similar?

Does Norm die too? Does Andrew?

is this happening in a war?

Is this in XXI century? XX? XIX? before?

Is the country relevant?
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby Earnest » Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:58 am

Sorry for repeating...
Assuming they are all HAM...did Andrew shot Riley? Did someone else? Did the someone shot Riley on purpose? If so, because of one of the previous interactions he had? The one with Andrew? The one withNorm?
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby android18 » Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:01 pm

Are Riley and Norm friends? Or at least on good terms? Are Riley and Andrew? Norm and Andrew? Is Riley shot deliberately? Does Andrew walk up to Riley straight after Norm speaks to Riley? Is Andrew present with Norm speaks to Riley? Are other people? Does Norm say something threatening or worrying to Riley? Does Riley know he is going to die? If so, after Norm speaks to him? After Andrew threatens him? Is Andrew's threat that of being shot?
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby wolfier » Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:15 pm

Does Andrew know Norm? Does Norm know Andrew?
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby CoffeeBean » Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:56 pm

Riley, Norm, Andrew H/A/M ? Yes to all
Does Riley see Norm when Norm speaks to Riley? Yes, but explore
Does Riley see Andrew when Andrew threatens Riley? Yes
The 'short time later', is it seconds? minutes? hours? days? Days to weeks
Does Andrew shot and kill Riley? Yes Does Norm shot and kill Riley? No
Does Riley die because of being shot? Yes
When you say "Riley is shot", does that mean someone (or several people) shot at him with firearms? or is he shot from a cannon or something similar? Riley is shot by a bullet from a handgun
Does Norm die too? Does Andrew? Neither
is this happening in a war? No
Is this in XXI century? XX? XIX? before? This would happen likely after the 1970's and still happens today
Is the country relevant? It's based on things that happen in the US but could easily happen in many other countries

Assuming they are all HAM...did Andrew shot Riley? Yes Did someone else? No
Did the someone shot Riley on purpose? Yes If so, because of one of the previous interactions he had? Not one, but... The one with Andrew? ...this one, and...The one with Norm?...this one too.

Are Riley and Norm friends? No Or at least on good terms? Yes Are Riley and Andrew? No Norm and Andrew? No
Is Riley shot deliberately? Yes Does Andrew walk up to Riley straight after Norm speaks to Riley? No
Is Andrew present with Norm speaks to Riley? No Are other people? Yes
Does Norm say something threatening or worrying to Riley? No, not at all
Does Riley know he is going to die? Not for sure but likely suspects it
If so, after Norm speaks to him? No After Andrew threatens him? Yes Is Andrew's threat that of being shot? Probably not this specific but Riley could have assumed that it is meant.

Does Andrew know Norm? In what way? Does Norm know Andrew? No, not at all
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby Balin » Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:37 am

Do Riley and Norm speak face-to-face? In person? Over long-distance video (such as Skype)?
Same questions for Andrew and Riley?
Are their precise ages or age ranges relevant, other than being adults?
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby Earnest » Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:29 am

Did Norm and Andrew go to Riley with the same purpose? Is sonething illegal going on? Is Riley sit on a car when talking to N? When talking to A? Is A threatening R because R is damaging him? Damaging his affairs? His illegal affairs? Is drug involved?

Are R or N wearing a mask when speaking one to the other? Is A? Did they wear something in order not to be recognized?
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby CoffeeBean » Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:06 pm

Do Riley and Norm speak face-to-face? Yes In person? Yes Over long-distance video (such as Skype)? No
Same questions for Andrew and Riley? They speak face to face in person, not any other way
Are their precise ages or age ranges relevant, other than being adults? Not really. Norm is probably 20-30 years older than the other two (this might be helpful).

Did Norm and Andrew go to Riley with the same purpose? No - good q Is something illegal going on? At one point, yes Is Riley sit on a car when talking to N? When talking to A? No
Is A threatening R because R is damaging him? No Damaging his affairs? His illegal affairs? Is drug involved? No to all

Are R or N wearing a mask when speaking one to the other? Is A? Did they wear something in order not to be recognized? No to all
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby wolfier » Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:32 am

Is Andrew's act of shooting and killing Riley a legal killing, or is it illegal?
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby Earnest » Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:36 am

Riley stands just a few feet away from Norm = did R go to a relevant place just to meet N? Can we assume R stand still? Sit still? Same question for N, please.
Did they know each other? Relevant the reason why N wait for "few seconds" in order to speak to R? Did he need to recognize him? Did they have an appointment? Did R wait for a signal? Did N?
Did R expect someone would have talked to him? Is it normal for hin to have someone to talk with in that place?

Is the talk between R and N in order to recognise R somehow? Did N and A know each other? If so, is their aim to kill R? Did A and R know each other?

Relevant how A threaten R? With a gun? With a knife? Just with words? Saying something like "if you do not do this, then..."? Did R expect A to threaten him? Are debts relevant? Was R killed because he did not do the "something" A asked for? If so is the something: stop to perform an action? Pay a debt? Go away from a place? Pay someone for a service? Pay someone? Stop investigating about something? Others?
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby CoffeeBean » Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:49 pm

Is Andrew's act of shooting and killing Riley a legal killing, or is it illegal? It is illegal

Riley stands just a few feet away from Norm = did R go to a relevant place just to meet N? Yes Can we assume R stand still? At one point, yes Sit still? No, he wasn't sitting
Same question for N, please. Norm also went to a relevant place to meet Riley, and stood still while they met
Did they know each other? No - good q Relevant the reason why N wait for "few seconds" in order to speak to R? Yes
Did he need to recognize him? Yes, in a relevant way Did they have an appointment? "They" didn't, but explore this
Did R wait for a signal? No, but... Did N? ...yes, he did.
Did R expect someone would have talked to him? No Is it normal for him to have someone to talk with in that place? Yes, safe to assume this

Is the talk between R and N in order to recognise R somehow? At some point, yes Did N and A know each other? Norm did not know Andrew at all. It is possible (and certain at one point) that Andrew knew who Norm was.
If so, is their aim to kill R? Never for Norm, but yes for Andrew at a certain point Did A and R know each other? Not at all

Relevant how A threaten R? Somewhat (keep reading) With a gun? With a knife? Just with words? Yes, this
Saying something like "if you do not do this, then..."? Yes, exactly
Did R expect A to threaten him? No Are debts relevant? Yes Was R killed because he did not do the "something" A asked for? Yes, exactly this
If so is the something: stop to perform an action? No, the opposite... Pay a debt? Yes, this Go away from a place? No Pay someone for a service? Not this, but... Pay someone? ...yes, just this. Stop investigating about something? Others? No
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby trebor » Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:38 am

Do Norm and Andrew know each other? Know of each other? Is Norm the person Andrew wants Riley to pay? Is Norm in competition with this person, if not?

Is Riley a priest? Confessional relevant? Is Riley’s job relevant? Is N’s? A’s? If yes to one of the last three, is it a job where someone approaches he worker? While the worker is standing at a counter? Behind a partition? Does R work at a bank? At a bar?

Relevant what Andrew wants someone to be paid for? If so, to be paid for their silence? Blackmail relevant?

Did N have to wait to speak to R because he (R) was in a line and someone was in front of him?

Has R done anything illegal? And since Riley never sees Andrew again, was R relevantly blindfolded (or blinded?) prior to being shot? If not, was he shot from behind? Relevant?

Are school shootings relevant?
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby Earnest » Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:58 am

Did N talk with R for financial reasons? Money? Debts? Is the conversation with N relevant? Relevant to discover the reason of R's debt? To be sure...is R that had a debt right? If so, toward A directly ? And debt is in monetary terms right?
Was N following a line? Was A? Was R an employee in a bank? Are prisons relevant?
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby CoffeeBean » Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:03 pm

Do Norm and Andrew know each other?No, but... Know of each other? ...Andrew knows who Norm is.
Is Norm the person Andrew wants Riley to pay? No Is Norm in competition with this person, if not? No

Is Riley a priest? No Confessional relevant? No Is Riley’s job relevant? No Is N’s? Yes A’s? No
If yes to one of the last three, is it a job where someone approaches he worker? No While the worker is standing at a counter? Behind a partition? No to these Does R work at a bank? At a bar? Riley's job isn't relevant

Relevant what Andrew wants someone to be paid for? Not specifically but in general yes
If so, to be paid for their silence? No Blackmail relevant? No

Did N have to wait to speak to R because he (R) was in a line and someone was in front of him? Not this, but explore

Has R done anything illegal? No And since Riley never sees Andrew again, was R relevantly blindfolded (or blinded?) prior to being shot? No... If not, was he shot from behind? Yes, this Relevant? Somewhat, in discovering A's motive

Are school shootings relevant? No

Did N talk with R for financial reasons? Money? Yes to both, but... Debts? ...not this.
Is the conversation with N relevant? Yes Relevant to discover the reason of R's debt? FA
To be sure...is R that had a debt right? NO, he didn't - good q
If so, toward A directly? No, but explore this And debt is in monetary terms right? FA but explore
Was N following a line? Was A? Was R an employee in a bank? Are prisons relevant? No to all
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby trebor » Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:37 pm

Are there any other people with a part to play in this puzzle? Are any love triangles involved? Or dealings with family members?

Does R want A to pay someone for something g that person will do? Because R and that person have an agreement already? Prior to Andrew approaching him had Riley ever heard of this person before? Has this person loaned money to Riley? Provided him with a tangible object?

Is Norm a well-known person? Is he an authority figure? If I were to see him in the same context in which he approached Riley would I be able to figure out his profession quickly?
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby CoffeeBean » Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:51 pm

Are there any other people with a part to play in this puzzle? Yes - good q. No others with a primary role but certainly involved.
Are any love triangles involved? No Or dealings with family members? Yes-ish

Does R want A to pay someone for something g that person will do? No Because R and that person have an agreement already? No
Prior to Andrew approaching him had Riley ever heard of this person before? No - good q
Has this person loaned money to Riley? No Provided him with a tangible object? No

Is Norm a well-known person? Yes Is he an authority figure? No
If I were to see him in the same context in which he approached Riley would I be able to figure out his profession quickly? YES - very good q
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby Earnest » Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:59 pm

Is any financial relation between N and A relevant? Did N needed to "wait for his turn" in order to speak to R? Is mafia involved xD? Did N want to give money to R? Want that R borrow money to him? In Monopoly relevant? Did N speak to R about his (of N) money? Where they were? Money laundering? Inheritance? Money legally detained? Money that he gained in a legal way?

Is N asking a service to R? Vice versa? Is N providing a service to R? Vice versa?

Did A also wait few seconds before speaking to R? For the same reason of N? Are banks involved? Is privacy? In killing R, did A obtain/had a benefit in terms of money? If so, of N's money?
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby CoffeeBean » Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:52 pm

Is any financial relation between N and A relevant? No Did N needed to "wait for his turn" in order to speak to R? In a way, yes
Is mafia involved xD? No Did N want to give money to R? YES Want that R borrow money to him? No In Monopoly relevant? No
Did N speak to R about his (of N) money? Yes Where they were? Not relevant Money laundering? Inheritance? Not these, no
Money legally detained? Money that he gained in a legal way? <-- This

Is N asking a service to R? Vice versa? Neither Is N providing a service to R? Vice versa? Neither

Did A also wait few seconds before speaking to R? Yes For the same reason of N? Yes[/b ]Are banks involved? [b]Only indirectly Is privacy? Indirectly, but yes
In killing R, did A obtain/had a benefit in terms of money? He hoped to have this, yes If so, of N's money? No, not Norm's money
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby Earnest » Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:34 pm

Did R accept N's money? If not, is this the reason why A threatened R? Sam q. if so, please. Was the one of N a borrow? A gift? Did N want something in exchange of the money? Did A also had the chance to be given the money that N proposed to give to R? Had R the right to receive the money? Did he hope to receive the money by N? Did he gain the money from R? If so long time ago? Seconds ago? Did N gain the money hours ago? Days ago? Relevant?
Are fines relevant? Is police? Are homeless relevant? Bets?
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby CoffeeBean » Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:08 pm

Did R accept N's money? Yes If not, is this the reason why A threatened R? Sam q. if so, please. Yes, the reason Andrew threatened Riley was a result of Riley accepting money Was the one of N a borrow? A gift? This
Did N want something in exchange of the money? No Did A also had the chance to be given the money that N proposed to give to R? No Had R the right to receive the money? Yes
Did he hope to receive the money by N? Yes Did he gain the money from R? No If so long time ago? Seconds ago? N/A
Did N gain the money hours ago? FA Days ago? Relevant? It is relevant how Norm became able to give Riley the money, yes
Are fines relevant? Is police? Are homeless relevant? Bets? None of these
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby Earnest » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:01 am

Did N subtract the money to A? Is A N's client? Did N give the money to R as a gift so that A thought it was R to steal the money from him?
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby CoffeeBean » Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:05 pm

Did N subtract the money to A? Can you rephrase this?
Is A N's client? No Did N give the money to R as a gift Yes, in one certain way so that A thought it was R to steal the money from him? A knew that R did not steal the money (if this is what you are asking)
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby Earnest » Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:32 pm

how Norm became able to give Riley the money = by damaging A somehow? Financially?
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby CoffeeBean » Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:00 pm

how Norm became able to give Riley the money = by damaging A somehow? Financially? No
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby trebor » Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:57 pm

Is Norm an actor? Musician? Other type of artist?Would I know his profession because I’d know who he is? Or because of something else? Something he wears as part of his profession? Does he have a uniform? Is he a security guard? Firefighter? Does his profession involve the legal system? Is his profession a common one? Does it pay over $100,000 CAD per year?

Are the other people in this puzzle present at the when N and A speak to R? Are they also there to give R money? Or does R hope they’ll give him money? Is R soliciting donations for an organization? The money that N gives R, is it meant to go into R’s pocket? Is that where it goes? Does A think R is being dishonest with the money he receives?

Did Andrew think it was unethical for Norm to give money to Riley? For Riley to receive money from Andrew?
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby wolfier » Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:28 pm

When Norm spoke to Riley, did he only speak to Riley or was Riley only one among his audience?
If Norm spoke to a crowd, was Andrew in it? Did Andrew see or hear Norm speaking with Riley?
Was Riley a panhandler? Did Andrew know Riley was getting money from Norm before threatening him?
Had Norm's conversation with Riley didn't happen, would Andrew still threaten Riley? Would he still kill Riley?
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby CoffeeBean » Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:08 pm

Is Norm an actor? Yes, among other things Musician? No Other type of artist? Not "artist" but does many things related to acting Would I know his profession because I’d know who he is? Yes Or because of something else? He would be known for several things Something he wears as part of his profession? No Does he have a uniform? No Is he a security guard? Firefighter? No to these Does his profession involve the legal system? No Is his profession a common one? Well, it's not uncommon Does it pay over $100,000 CAD per year? Definitely

Are the other people in this puzzle present at the when N and A speak to R? FA - they are present when Norm speaks to Riley. They are not present when Andrew speaks to Riley. Are they also there to give R money? Indirectly (possible FA here) Or does R hope they’ll give him money? No Is R soliciting donations for an organization? No
The money that N gives R, is it meant to go into R’s pocket? Figuratively yes Is that where it goes? Unknown Does A think R is being dishonest with the money he receives? No

Did Andrew think it was unethical for Norm to give money to Riley? For Riley to receive money from Andrew? Not at all

When Norm spoke to Riley, did he only speak to Riley or was Riley only one among his audience? There were probably other people present besides those who were with Norm
If Norm spoke to a crowd, was Andrew in it? No, he wasn't Did Andrew see or hear Norm speaking with Riley? No - good q
Was Riley a panhandler? No Did Andrew know Riley was getting money from Norm before threatening him? Yes
Had Norm's conversation with Riley didn't happen, would Andrew still threaten Riley? Would he still kill Riley? NO to both - good q!

Excellent set of q's
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby Earnest » Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:47 am

So had N not a conversation with R but had he given the money to R without saying anything, A would not have killed him? And N physically gave his money to R right? Did A see the money moving from N to R relevantly? Did A recognized N? Was R in a place where usually A finds himself? Is it relevant the amount of money given by R to N? More than 100$? More than 200000$? More than 5000$?

Was the conversation of N with R amplified by a microphone? Was it a private one? TV show relevant (e.g. N was the presenter)? Published in the news?
Did A think that something illegal went on during the conversation? Is A a fan of N? Is R?
Was R sorted among the people to receive the money? Did he really gain the money? Was the scene acted?

Guess: R had a debt with A. Maybe he also said he could not repay it. N, which is famous, talked to R and gave him money. The conversation went in the news because N is famous. A saw the nes and knew that R had the money to repay him back. Waited few days and since R did not give him the money go and kill him.
If the above is correct, the thing to establish is...why N gave the money to R? Did N win the lottery and made a donation?
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby CoffeeBean » Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:47 pm

So had N not a conversation with R but had he given the money to R without saying anything, A would not have killed him? Maybe, but still the likely result And N physically gave his money to R right? No, he didn't Did A see the money moving from N to R relevantly? No
Did A recognized N? Andrew probably never saw Norm talk to Riley but it's not relevant
Was R in a place where usually A finds himself? No, not at all Is it relevant the amount of money given by R to N? More than 100$? More than 200000$? More than 5000$? Yes. Millions of dollars.

Was the conversation of N with R amplified by a microphone? Yes Was it a private one? No TV show relevant (e.g. N was the presenter)? No, but... Published in the news?...yes, this for sure!
Did A think that something illegal went on during the conversation? No Is A a fan of N? No, but...Is R? ...yes, very likely that he is.
Was R sorted among the people to receive the money? Not sure, but see below Did he really gain the money? Yes
Was the scene acted? No

Guess: R had a debt with A. No, not in actuality. But explore this! Maybe he also said he could not repay it. He did say this at one point.
N, which is famous, talked to R and gave him money. Yes, more or less The conversation went in the news because N is famous. Yes
A saw the news He may or may not have, but... and knew that R had the money ...yes...to repay him back. ...but in actuality Riley didn't owe Andrew anything. Waited few days Yes, but after what? and since R did not give him the money go and kill him. Yes, this was Andrew's motive.
If the above is correct, the thing to establish is...why N gave the money to R? Did N win the lottery NO, not exactly the lottery, but you are very close and OTRT. and made a donation? No

You may have enough details now to put the solution together...
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby Earnest » Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:43 am

Did N win instead of R? Did N win thanks to a fluke? Did N give R the money to be spend in a way that he (N) indicated? Did A let R think that he was one of the beneficiary of the money specified by N?
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby trebor » Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:08 pm

Did R win a draw? Raffle? Did he have to purchase a ticket to win the thing? Did he win a contest of some sort? Did he have to demonstrate superiority in a particular task? Was it just luck, to be awarded the money? Did A feel he should’ve won instead? Did A intend to take R’s money after killing him?
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby wolfier » Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:31 pm

Is A and R related? Is insurance relevant?
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby CoffeeBean » Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:02 pm

Did N win instead of R? Did N win thanks to a fluke? No, R was clearly the winner
Did N give R the money Yes, but indirectly...to be spend in a way that he (N) indicated? No
Did A let R think that he was one of the beneficiary of the money specified by N? In a way, yes
Did R win a draw? Raffle? Did he have to purchase a ticket to win the thing? Did he win a contest of some sort? Yes, this, a certain kind of contest very similar to the lottery that used to occur frequently in the United States. It was discovered that there was a major flaw in the system, which is the key to the solution of this puzzle.
Did he have to demonstrate superiority in a particular task? No... Was it just luck, to be awarded the money? Yes, exactly
Did A feel he should’ve won instead? Maybe Did A intend to take R’s money after killing him? Yes, extremely likely
Is A and R related? No, they aren't, but explore Is insurance relevant? No
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby trebor » Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:00 pm

Was the flaw one of which the competitors were aware? Was the contest purposely rigged? Are quiz shows relevant? The other people that are present, are they audience members? Was this event broadcast on TV?
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby CoffeeBean » Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:49 pm

Was the flaw one of which the competitors were aware? A few of them were at first, then more of them became aware of it
Was the contest purposely rigged? Unknown and not relevant Are quiz shows relevant? No
The other people that are present, are they audience members? No Was this event broadcast on TV? Yes, the meeting between Andrew and Riley was aired on TV (this is related to the flaw)
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby wolfier » Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:27 pm

Is the fact that R appears on TV at all, part of the flaw? Issues around anonymity of lottery winners relevant?
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby CoffeeBean » Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:42 pm

Is the fact that R appears on TV at all, part of the flaw? YES
Issues around anonymity of lottery winners relevant? YES (in this case it's a contest)
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby CoffeeBean » Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:55 pm

HINTS:

1. The flaw with the contest is that the winner is shown on TV
2. Riley doesn't have any debt with Andrew
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby trebor » Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:00 pm

Is it a flaw because their being on TV: puts them in danger? Makes it easier for subsequent contestants to win as well? Exposes another flaw in the contest?

Did Riley know someone else who was competing for the money? Was he competing himself? Was Riley embarrassed in some way by the televised meeting between him and Andrew?
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby CoffeeBean » Fri Oct 26, 2018 8:31 pm

Is it a flaw because their being on TV: puts them in danger? Yes
Makes it easier for subsequent contestants to win as well? No Exposes another flaw in the contest? No

Did Riley know someone else who was competing for the money? No, not relevant
Was he competing himself? Yes, he entered a contest
Was Riley embarrassed in some way by the televised meeting between him and Andrew? The meeting between Riley and Andrew was not televised
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby trebor » Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:34 am

Was the flaw one of which the competitors were aware? A few of them were at first, then more of them became aware of it
Was the contest purposely rigged? Unknown and not relevant Are quiz shows relevant? No
The other people that are present, are they audience members? No Was this event broadcast on TV? Yes, the meeting between Andrew and Riley was aired on TV (this is related to the flaw)
But the meeting between Andrew and Riley was not aired on TV? Was the meeting between Riley and Norm televised?

And sorry, I meant "was Andrew competing in the contest?". I think we've covered that, but I couldn't remember so I would like to be sure.

Riley has no debt with Andrew, but does Andrew believe he does? Or that A believes R has an ethical obligation to him somehow? To someone else?
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby CoffeeBean » Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:50 pm

But the meeting between Andrew and Riley was not aired on TV? BLOOPER ALERT: No, it was not
Was the meeting between Riley and Norm televised? Yes

And sorry, I meant "was Andrew competing in the contest?". I think we've covered that, but I couldn't remember so I would like to be sure. No, he wasn't

Riley has no debt with Andrew, but does Andrew believe he does? No, Andrew knows that Riley has no actual debt with him. But... Or that A believes R has an ethical obligation to him somehow? To someone else? No
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby trebor » Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:30 pm

When Andrew spoke with Riley were they in the same place that Norm was when he did?

Is this a sweepstakes thing? Is Riley at home when he gets presented with a cheque by Norm, and so Andrew knows where he lives? (And so when N and A are waiting to talk to R they’re waiting for him to answer the door?)
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby CoffeeBean » Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:55 pm

When Andrew spoke with Riley were they in the same place that Norm was when he did? Yes...keep reading...

Is this a sweepstakes thing? Yes, and... Is Riley at home when he gets presented with a cheque by Norm, and so Andrew knows where he lives? ...yes (this is one of the major flaws discovered)
(And so when N and A are waiting to talk to R they’re waiting for him to answer the door?) Yes to both

The only part left to discover is what Andrew said to Riley prior to killing him...
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby gregoryuconn » Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:51 pm

Was the sweepstakes real? Or was it one of those scams? Did Andrew threaten to kill Riley, or would that be too easy? Did Andrew live in the house at any relevant point? At the time of the puzzle? And maybe he was really the one who won the contest and Riley impersonated him?
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby trebor » Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:44 am

Are Andrew’s exact words relevant? Did he give Riley a deadline? An ultimatum? Was Riley at home when he was shot?

Does Riley have a debt with anyone? Does Andrew? If yes, does Riley know this person/organization? Does Andrew try to threaten Riley into paying the debt? Does Andrew threaten one of Riley’s family members? Does Riley threaten one of Andrew’s? Does Riley say something during his conversation with Norm hat Riley realizes he can exploit? Or that he takes offense to?
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby CoffeeBean » Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:57 pm

Was the sweepstakes real? Yes Or was it one of those scams? No
Did Andrew threaten to kill Riley, or would that be too easy? At first, no, but this threat may have eventually been made Did Andrew live in the house at any relevant point? At the time of the puzzle? No And maybe he was really the one who won the contest and Riley impersonated him? No, Riley was the real and actual winner

Are Andrew’s exact words relevant? Only one particular sentence or phrase is Did he give Riley a deadline? Very likely An ultimatum? Probably Was Riley at home when he was shot? Yes, he was exiting his house

Does Riley have a debt with anyone? No, at least none that are relevant. He CERTAINLY DOES NOT have one with Andrew. Does Andrew? Unknown (but this is quite likely)
If yes, does Riley know this person/organization? No Does Andrew try to threaten Riley into paying the debt? YES, he DOES threaten Riley to do this very thing! Does Andrew threaten one of Riley’s family members? Unknown, but both possible and likely Does Riley threaten one of Andrew’s? No
Does Riley say something during his conversation with Norm hat Riley realizes he can exploit? Or that he takes offense to? No

RECAP - Riley has won a sweepstakes with a large cash prize. He appears on TV when Norm (a celebrity) appears at his front door to proclaim Riley as the winner and award the prize. Andrew sees this on TV, and a short time later goes to Riley's house. When Riley answers the door, Andrew talks to him. In the conversation is a mention of [SOMETHING] followed by a mild threat. Even though Riley does not owe a debt to Andrew, Andrew threatens Riley about paying a debt. Andrew probably follows this conversation with additional threats and sadly kills Riley, hoping to get the prize money for himself. This series of events exposes, or continues to expose, two major flaws in the process by which the prize winners are announced. One of the flaws is that people who have just won a large cash prize are shown on TV so that anyone who sees it can figure out where they live. This leads to the other relevant flaw, which is exploited in this case by Andrew. The SOMETHING that Andrew tells Riley is directly connected to this flaw. So what is it?
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby wolfier » Thu Nov 01, 2018 1:00 pm

Is Andrew posing as a creditor? Is a will or a power of attorney relevant?
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby CoffeeBean » Thu Nov 01, 2018 1:41 pm

Is Andrew posing as a creditor? Not exactly, but very much OTRT
Is a will or a power of attorney relevant? No
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby CoffeeBean » Thu Nov 01, 2018 1:41 pm

HINT: Andrew is posing as something...
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby wolfier » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:19 am

Did Andrew pose as a tax collector? The "actual winner" of the sweepstake?
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby CoffeeBean » Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:10 pm

Did Andrew pose as a tax collector? The "actual winner" of the sweepstake? No, not these...
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby wolfier » Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:24 pm

CoffeeBean wrote:Did Andrew pose as a tax collector? The "actual winner" of the sweepstake? No, not these...


Is Riley relevantly handicapped in any way? Did Andrew pose as a middleman for debt collection? Did Andrew tell Riley his made-up reason for the debt? Is the actual excuse relevant and makes Andrew believe he would get the money if he kills Riley? Would Andrew still kill Riley if he gave him some or all of the winnings?
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby CoffeeBean » Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:58 pm

Is Riley relevantly handicapped in any way? No
Did Andrew pose as a middleman for debt collection? No
Did Andrew tell Riley his made-up reason for the debt? YES, he made it very clear as to why Riley should give money to him
Is the actual excuse relevant FA and makes Andrew believe he would get the money if he kills Riley? Both Andrew and Riley know that the fact is Riley isn't in debt to Andrew, but Andrew believes that he has a chance to get Riley's money if he kills him
Would Andrew still kill Riley if he gave him some or all of the winnings? No, he would have what he wants
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby trebor » Sun Nov 11, 2018 3:13 pm

Is Andrew posing as someone who will help Riley with his finances? As someone who needs to use the phone? As someone who is having a medical emergency? Does Andrew wear anything relevant as part of this posing? Is the something A says to R related to whatever he is posing as? (ie, clergy, police, etc., can get special treatment or some such if they mention their profession?) Is A posing as a relative of R’s? Perhaps a long-lost or distant relative coming out of the woodwork?

Riley was exiting his house when he was shot. Does this mean that Andrew had broken into the house? Had otherwise obtained entry? Was waiting outside? Perhaps in the bushes? Is it relevant why he shot R from behind instead of face-on?
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby CoffeeBean » Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:12 pm

Is Andrew posing as someone Yes, but... who will help Riley with his finances? ...not this type of person, no.
As someone who needs to use the phone? As someone who is having a medical emergency? No to both
Does Andrew wear anything relevant as part of this posing? No
Is the something A says to R related to whatever he is posing as? YES, it's one of the very first things Andrew mentions
(ie, clergy, police, etc., can get special treatment or some such if they mention their profession?)
Is A posing as a relative of R’s? Perhaps a long-lost or distant relative coming out of the woodwork? YES!

Riley was exiting his house when he was shot. Does this mean that Andrew had broken into the house? Had otherwise obtained entry? Was waiting outside? This Perhaps in the bushes? Is it relevant why he shot R from behind instead of face-on? He was a coward, probably


***** SPOILER *****

Andrew poses as a long lost relative of Riley's, and claims that someone in Riley's family borrowed money from Andrew, and Andrew is there to discuss how Riley will repay the debt. Riley says he doesn't know about any debt and he doesn't know who Andrew is. The discussion leads to Andrew threatening Riley if he doesn't repay the debt. Riley, who has just won millions of dollars, feels no obligation to pay Andrew. Andrew, who has learned of Riley's money prize from TV and the news, decides to wait a short time and then ambush Riley at his house, hoping to then locate and steal the money. So he waits outside of Riley's house one day and shoots Riley as he exits the house.

This is based on a flaw that was discovered in some sweepstakes contests (like Publisher's Clearing House, also certain game shows). The prize winner would be shown on TV, and the fame caused people in the nearby area to try to take advantage of the winners by posing as distant family members who had loaned money to someone in the winner's family and came to collect the debt. In some cases, when the winners refused to pay because they didn't recognize the person or know about any debt, the posers threatened violence or other hardship. In some cases, winners of these prizes stored most of the winnings in cash at their homes. This is what the guy who broke the code on the "Press Your Luck" game show did, he took his winnings home in the form of cash stored in multiple bags. As word got out that he had won that much money, thieves began to keep an eye on his house. One night while he was away from home, someone broke in and stole all of the money that he had stored at his house.

Similar situations have occurred more recently with lottery winners, prompting many of them to find ways to anonymously claim their winnings.
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby trebor » Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:32 am

Nice puzzle. I had fun with this one.
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Re: Three Meetings [CoffeeBean]

Postby biograd » Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:40 am

Taking an idea from another LTPF puzzle that is currently running, maybe the winners need to start "swearing" (e.g. making an obscene gesture) toward the camera when collecting their winnings, thereby causing views of their faces to be censored! Though then there's a risk people think they are expressing disapproval at having won for some strange reason...
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