[WiZ] WALL-Et

[WiZ]

How did a brother and sister losing their wallets lead a man from a distant city to give up his criminal ways?

ROIMBT. Caveat earlispoilor.

[Earnest]

Did they lose the wallet the same day? Were they looking for them? If so together? Relevant the age of the two? Teens? Did the criminal find it? Give it back to them? Was the wallet in a public mean of trabsport? Was it in an airport? In a public place? Stealing identity relevant? Stealing wallets? Were the two related to the criminal? Were there documents inside the wallets? Money?

Criminal ways = drug traffic? Killing people? Theft? Minor crimes? Financial crimes? Others?


give up his criminal ways = forever? For a small period of time? Because he got caught? Because he voluntarily decided to give them up?

[WiZ]

Did they lose the wallet the same day? no Were they looking for them? yes If so together? no Relevant the age of the two? yes, broadly Teens? This is a possibility Did the criminal find it? yope Give it back to them? yope Was the wallet in a public mean of trabsport? no Was it in an airport? no In a public place? yes Stealing identity relevant? yes Stealing wallets? yes Were the two related to the criminal? no Were there documents inside the wallets? yope, Doyd of 'documents' Money? not relevantly

Criminal ways = drug traffic? Killing people? no to these Theft? yope Minor crimes? yes Financial crimes? potentially Others? yes


give up his criminal ways = forever? Probably not For a small period of time? yes Because he got caught? Because he voluntarily decided to give them up? Bit of both

Excellent first round.

[Balin]

Did the criminal know the brother and sister?
Was the criminal an identity thief? A wallet thief?

[Earnest]

Did the criminal pretend the two to be his children?
Relevant that the criminal was from a distant city? Are identity cards relevant? Is the fact that the teens were not adult relevant? Could it have worked were they in their adulthood (more than 21 aged)? Did the criminal pretend to be someone else? Was him asked to identify himself? Stealing identity = mainly on the internet? In real life? Relevant the age of the criminal?

Yope to "give it back to them" = did he steal something that was in inside of the wallets? Of one of the two? Did he find both wallets? Did he pretend/claim to have found them? Did he claim to have found one of them? Were there badges inside the wallets? Credit cards? Something giving access to an house? To a private place?

Was the criminal caught? If so had he got the wallets with him? Was his face noticed by a camera? Was him recognized? was him accused for having stolen identity? For other crimes? Did the criminal checked the identity of the owners of the wallets (or of the wallet if he found just one)? Did he find it in a supermarket? Was it announced to anyone who had found a wallet to bring it to the lost and found?

Was something relevant found inside the wallets that incriminated the crimal?
WAG --> he pretebded to be the dad of the two but they were actually orphans.

[GalFisk]

Did the criminal get in trouble because he assumed the identity of someone who was in trouble?
Were both wallets missing during overlapping periods of time? Relevant?

[WiZ]

Balin

Did the criminal know the brother and sister? no
Was the criminal an identity thief? yes A wallet thief? no

Earnest

Did the criminal pretend the two to be his children? no
Relevant that the criminal was from a distant city? it's somewhat more likely that he was distant than local Are identity cards relevant? yes Is the fact that the teens were not adult relevant? FA, but explore this line of thinking Could it have worked were they in their adulthood (more than 21 aged)? yes Did the criminal pretend to be someone else? yes Was him asked to identify himself? not relevantly Stealing identity = mainly on the internet? no In real life? yes Relevant the age of the criminal? broadly

Yope to "give it back to them" = did he steal something that was in inside of the wallets? yope Of one of the two? correct; he did not come to possess anything from one of the two wallets Did he find both wallets? no Did he pretend no/claim see next answer to have found them? Did he claim to have found one of them? yes, beware FA Were there badges inside the wallets? Credit cards? Something giving access to an house? To a private place? irrelevant to all

Was the criminal caught? yope, define 'caught' If so had he got the wallets with him? yope Was his face noticed by a camera? Was him recognized? no to both was him accused DOYD for having stolen identity? yes For other crimes? no Did the criminal checked the identity of the owners of the wallets not both, but (or of the wallet if he found just one)? yes Did he find it in a supermarket? no Was it announced to anyone who had found a wallet to bring it to the lost and found? no

Was something relevant found inside the wallets that incriminated the crimal? yes
WAG --> he pretebded to be the dad of the two but they were actually orphans. lateral, but no

GalFisk

Did the criminal get in trouble DOYD because he assumed the identity of someone who was in trouble? yope, define 'trouble'
Were both wallets missing during overlapping periods of time? no Relevant? no

[Earnest]

So is legal age relevant? Is it 18? 21? Did the criminal think that it was 18? It was 21?
Was the wallet incriminating the criminal the one he claimed to have found (let's say wallet A)? The other(B)? Did he find something in wallet A? In wallet B? An identity card? A driving license? Is the absence of something relevant (e.g. he was driving but did not find a driving license)? Did he check wallet B? Can we assume wallet A to be empty a part from ID? Was wallet B the one of the sister? Was the criminal acting as "identity thief" with its own identity? Had the thief been identified before (he was requested to show up a document)? Had the thief been relevantly requested to show up a document (identity card?) in the course of the puzzle?

Can we assume the nationality of the two and the nationality of the man to be the same? Did the man fall in a trap? Organized by the police? Did the criminal have a wallet as well? Relevant?

Act of stealing identity = show up a fake document to someone?

Identity cards exchange relevant?
Are last names relevant? Did the police find wallet B? Did brother and sister (or the police?) promise a reward to the one having found wallet A? If so, did they do it in a way that it was simple to recognize whether he had stolen the identity of one of the two?

WAG --> the thief found wallet A. Brother and sister offered a reward to the one who would have found wallet B. Someone find it and the thief, claiming to be the brother took it promising the reward to the one having found it in the first place but instead run away to the brpther and sister in order to receive himself the reward.

[peter365]

Random thought , is organ donation relevant at all?

[WiZ]

So is legal age relevant? yes Is it 18? 21? either would work - depending on the country in which this is set Did the criminal think that it was 18? It was 21? they were aware of the correct age
Was the wallet incriminating the criminal the one he claimed to have found (let's say wallet A)? yes The other(B)? no - at least, not directly Did he find something in wallet A? yes In wallet B? no - at least, not directly An identity card? yes A driving license? potentially; not really relevant Is the absence of something relevant (e.g. he was driving but did not find a driving license)? yes - beware timeframes here Did he check wallet B? no Can we assume wallet A to be empty a part from ID? Yes - there was nothing else of relevance in it Was wallet B the one of the sister? no Was the criminal acting as "identity thief" with its own identity? please rephrase Had the thief been identified before (he was requested to show up a document)? no Had the thief been relevantly requested to show up a document (identity card?) in the course of the puzzle? no

Can we assume the nationality of the two and the nationality of the man to be the same? yes (and it could be any country represented in the LTPF) Did the man fall in a trap? no Organized by the police? no Did the criminal have a wallet as well? Relevant? not relevant (although he probably did)

Act of stealing identity = show up a fake document to someone? yes (or the possession and use of a fake ID in general)

Identity cards exchange relevant? not quite, but explore
Are last names relevant? yes Did the police find wallet B? no Did brother and sister (or the police?) promise a reward to the one having found wallet A? not relevantly If so, did they do it in a way that it was simple to recognize whether he had stolen the identity of one of the two? n/a

WAG --> the thief found wallet A. Brother and sister offered a reward to the one who would have found wallet B. Someone find it and the thief, claiming to be the brother took it promising the reward to the one having found it in the first place but instead run away to the brpther and sister in order to receive himself the reward. very creative, but incorrect

[Earnest]

So I did not understand if he was driving but did not find a driving license in wallet A if so, was the car that ge was driving his car? Or is it something like: the brother was guest in an hotel and has left the key of the car to the valet. In order to receive the key of the car he needs to show his ID to the receptionist and the thief showed it up instead of him. But (maybe) they told the receptionist that, since they are always together, in order to obtain the keys both IDs must be shown.
Or again, they rent a car but told that the woman would have driven and (maybe) that day was the day in which they were supposed to return the car.

Are noble last names relevant? Did he show up the ID to the police? Alchol relevant? Betting?

Last names relevant = hispanic last names? Of another nation? Are the last name of the thief and of the two of different nationalities?

[WiZ]

So I did not understand if he was driving nobody is driving at any relevant point in this puzzle but did not find a driving license in wallet A This statement is correct: the thief did not find a driving license in wallet A if so, was the car that ge was driving his car? Or is it something like: the brother was guest in an hotel and has left the key of the car to the valet. In order to receive the key of the car he needs to show his ID to the receptionist and the thief showed it up instead of him. But (maybe) they told the receptionist that, since they are always together, in order to obtain the keys both IDs must be shown.
Or again, they rent a car but told that the woman would have driven and (maybe) that day was the day in which they were supposed to return the car. none of these are correct

Are noble last names relevant? no Did he show up the ID to the police? Alchol relevant? Betting?

Last names relevant = hispanic last names? no Of another nation? no Are the last name of the thief and of the two of different nationalities? irrelevant

[Earnest]

I think you missed Peter's questions

Last name on ID = last name used by the brother? And last name on ID of the brother = last name on ID of the sister? Last name used by the sister = last name on ID? Are adoptions relevant? Did both brother and sister have legal age? Relevant who is the elder between the two? Are passes/membership cards relevant?
Are there relevant info on the ID? E.g. color of the eyes? Particular signs? Status? Is pronunciation of last name relevant? Puns involved?

Did he show up the ID to someone? Did someone else find wallet B? Did the thief have an ID as well? If so, was he found in possession of two IDs? Did he use both?
Were thief, brother and sister distant when the thief was caught? In other places? Same question for when the thief showed the ID of wallet A or use it somehow indirectly, please. Relevant what was there in wallet B? Just an ID as well? Can we assume so?
Is giving name relevant? Is it something like the thief used the ID of wallet A in order to do something but then realize the absence of other documents in wallet A and used later on his own ID to overcome the issue? Are any of these relevant: not corresponding names? Reservation for two people? name on a ticket different from name on ID? searches? Insurance? Bureaucracy? Reservations in general? Airports? Public means? Hotels? Credit cards? Banks? Internet? Alphabetical order? Lists of names?

[WiZ]

Earnest

I think you missed Peter's questions Oops. Mea culpa.

Peter365

Random thought , is organ donation relevant at all? not to this puzzle (although to several other)

Earnest continued

Last name on ID = last name used by the brother? yes And last name on ID of the brother = last name on ID of the sister? yes, this is a relevant connection Last name used by the sister = last name on ID? yes Are adoptions relevant? no Did both brother and sister have legal age? yes Relevant who is the elder between the two? yes Are passes/membership cards relevant? no
Are there relevant info on the ID? E.g. color of the eyes? Particular signs? Status? no - the surname is the relevant detail Is pronunciation of last name relevant? Puns involved? no to both

Did he show up the ID to someone? yes, FA lurking Did someone else find wallet B? yes Did the thief have an ID as well? no If so, was he found in possession of two IDs? no Did he use both? no
Were thief, brother and sister distant when the thief was caught? In other places? two were in the same place, one was elsewhere Same question for when the thief showed the ID of wallet A or use it somehow indirectly, please. Same answer again - and it was the same two together Relevant what was there in wallet B? no Just an ID as well? Can we assume so? we can
Is giving name relevant? no Is it something like the thief used the ID of wallet A in order to do something but then realize the absence of other documents in wallet A and used later on his own ID to overcome the issue? no Are any of these relevant: not corresponding names? Reservation for two people? name on a ticket different from name on ID? searches? Insurance? Bureaucracy? Reservations in general? Airports? Public means? Hotels? Credit cards? Banks? Internet? Alphabetical order? Lists of names? no to all

I'm not in the habit of naming the characters in my puzzles, but I think it might be helpful in this particular case. Feel free to come up with something if you'd like

[trebor]

Can we call the siblings Stan (M) and Sam (F)? And the thief Ted?

Is Stan the eldest of the siblings? Did Ted find Sam’s wallet? Did he find Stan’s? Did he assume Sam’s identity? Does Sam actually have a name that is used across the gender spectrum? Is it relevant exactly what her surname is? Is it the same as Ted’s? Did Ted attempt to contact one of the siblings? If so, Sam? Stan? Did he attempt to contact anyone else?

Had Sam also committed a crime? Had Stan?

[Earnest]

Did he show up the identity to the brother or the sister?
So thief = Rob, brother =Marco, sister = Selene.

The two in the same place: B and S? B and M? S and M?
Elder = S?

So...I don't think that the fact that two people have the same last name on the ID is sufficient to prove the steal of identity. Am I right? Unless it is very rare to find that same last name in the same place xD
So...is digital ID relevant? A code? A number?

If R and M or R and S were the two in the same place...relevant how S or M notice the ID of R?
Did M or S heard about R on TV?

[WiZ]

Heh. I suggest naming the characters to ensure clarity and consistency, and of course we get a cross-post. I exercise my right as puzzle host to create a set of hybrid characters.

*********************************************

CAST:

Marco Stanley MacHale-Sloane as Brother
Selene Samantha MacHale-Sloane as Sister
Ted Talks III as the Identity Thief

*********************************************

Not to give too much away, but there are potentially other characters..

I went with Earnest's suggestion as to first names, so we can abbreviate them to their initials (M, S, and T) and still tell them apart. Apologies to Trebor.

Trebor (names have been changed for consistency)

Is Marco the eldest of the siblings? yes Did Ted find Selene's wallet? yes Did he find Marco's? no Did he assume Selene's identity? no Does Selene actually have a name that is used across the gender spectrum? no (I can see why you suggested 'Sam' now) Is it relevant exactly what her surname is? no Is it the same as Ted's? no Did Ted attempt to contact one of the siblings? yes, FA lurking If so, Marco? no Selene? yes Did he attempt to contact anyone else? not relevantly

Had Selene also committed a crime? no Had Marco? no

Earnest(names have also been changed for consistency)

Did he show up the identity to the brother or the sister? Sister

The two in the same place: B and S? B and M? S and M? The two in the same place are Selene and Ted.
Elder = S? no, Marco is the elder.

So...I don't think that the fact that two people have the same last name on the ID is sufficient to prove the steal of identity. Am I right? Not by itself... Unless it is very rare to find that same last name in the same place xD It's a fairly unusual surname, as you can see
So...is digital ID relevant? A code? A number? no to these

If R and M or R and S were the two in the same place...relevant how S or M notice the ID of R? Yes, it is relevant how Ted notices the ID of Selene
Did M or S heard about R on TV? no

I hope this has brought some order to the chaos.

[Balin]

Are they at a sporting event?

[Earnest]

Apologies for the cross-posting chaos!!!

To be sure...did Ted know Selene's face because he saw it on the ID? And she did not know his face right? Is it relevant the process of falsification of IDs? Like Ted steals ID to allow people to cross country borders or whatsoever? In showing up the ID, did the thief show up also the wallet A? Did he claim to have also wallet B? Was Ted trying to modify Selene's ID?

Was Selene looking for the wallet? Did Ted know that?
Was Ted trying to approach Selene / flirt with her?
Is the thief willing S to know he is in possession of her ID? If so in order to threaten her? Can we assume that the brother was very far away? Or was he just looking his wallet in another room/space of the same place?

relevant how Ted notices the ID of Selene --> did he first notice Selene and then recognize to have seen her face on the ID? Vice versa? Has Ted ever seen the ID of the brother? Was Ted aware that S had a brother? That the brother lost his wallet? Did S found the brother's wallet? Someone else? So that the brother could prove he was actually connected with Selene? Did Ted pretend to be Selene's brother/relative? But Selene could not prove the contrary?

Timeline: a) Ted found wallet A with S's ID; b) he showed (voluntarily? Under request? To make a point/prove something?) S the ID c) the brother (or the brother's ID?) is relevant here and in particular his age and last name

[WiZ]

Balin

Are they at a sporting event? Not what I had in mind, but this part of the puzzle could be set at a sporting event.

Earnest

Apologies for the cross-posting chaos!!! All good

To be sure...did Ted know Selene's face because he saw it on the ID? He saw her face, and recognised it from the ID... but he did not use the ID picture to seek her out And she did not know his face right? corect Is it relevant the process of falsification of IDs? no Like Ted steals ID to allow people to cross country borders or whatsoever? no In showing up the ID, did the thief show up also the wallet A? yes Did he claim to have also wallet B? no Was Ted trying to modify Selene's ID? no

Was Selene looking for the wallet? if not at the time, she would have been later Did Ted know that? no (although he suspected she would eventually notice it was missing)
Was Ted trying to approach Selene yes / flirt with her? no
Is the thief willing S to know he is in possession of her ID? yesish If so in order to threaten her? no Can we assume that the brother was very far away? yes Or was he just looking his wallet in another room/space of the same place? no

relevant how Ted notices the ID of Selene --> did he first notice Selene and then recognize to have seen her face on the ID? no Vice versa? no (the face-matching aspect of this isn't really relevant) Has Ted ever seen the ID of the brother? yes Was Ted aware that S had a brother? at first no, but later yes That the brother lost his wallet? no Did S found the brother's wallet? no Someone else? no So that the brother could prove he was actually connected with Selene? no Did Ted pretend to be Selene's brother yope!/relative? But Selene could not prove the contrary? no

Timeline: a) Ted found wallet A with S's ID; correct (this was Selene's wallet) b) he showed (voluntarily? yes Under request? To make a point/prove something?) S the ID yes c) the brother (or the brother's ID?) yes, the ID is relevant here and in particular his age and last name yes (mainly his last name)

[hominid]

Is it relevant that the siblings have a double-barrelled/hyphenated surname? Can we assume that each name was inherited from a different parent? Relevant which one was which? Do they have any other siblings?

Did Ted pretend to be Marco specifically? Or a nonexistent brother of Selene? A third, existing sibling?

[WiZ]

Is it relevant that the siblings have a double-barrelled/hyphenated surname? no; this surname is a tribute to certain LTP authors Can we assume that each name was inherited from a different parent? Relevant which one was which? n/a to these Do they have any other siblings? not relevantly

Did Ted pretend to be Marco specifically? yes Or a nonexistent brother of Selene? no A third, existing sibling? no

[Balin]

Are Marco & Selene twins?

[WiZ]

Are Marco & Selene twins? no, Marco is older

[KayleeArafinwiel]

Are Marco & Selene twins? no, Marco is older

Well, even with twins, one has to come first...

Has Selene seen Marco recently? Or have they been living apart for a long time? Does Ted look enough like Marco that he could pass for him?

[WiZ]

Well, even with twins, one has to come first... This is true. From what I hear tell of twins, even a minute or two can be leveraged over the other twin for a lifetime

To leave no room for doubt, let's say that there were two separate conceptions and pregnancies, and the one resulting in Marco was first.

Has Selene seen Marco recently? irrel Or have they been living apart for a long time? as above Does Ted look enough like Marco that he could pass for him? Yes, FAs lurking

[KayleeArafinwiel]

I can haz recat? *pauses and rephrases in case*

may I have a recap, WiZ? I hate lurking FAs...

[hominid]

Does the ID actually show a picture of Marco? Is the picture up to date? Is Ted under the relevant age? Over? Is Ted related to Selene and Marco?

Is there an actual fake ID? Or is it just Ted fraudulently using Marco's ID? Does Does the fake ID actually show a picture of Ted? Marco? Someone else?

Did Marco die? Did Selene? Did Ted?

[trebor]

Has any of them had surfer to alter their appearance? Do Ted and Selene ever meet face to face? Does Ted alter his appearance? voice? when dealing with Selene?

I suspect that we would’ve had more FA notices or “yope” answers of this were the case, but does anyone involved in this puzzle have multiple personality disorder?

Is there something unusual about M’s ID picture?

[WiZ]

Kaylee

I can haz recat? Sure. I will answer the other questions first and recap in light of the new information

Hominid

Does the ID actually show a picture of Marco? yes Is the picture up to date? not very Is Ted under the relevant age? yes Over? unlikely Is Ted related to Selene and Marco? no

Is there an actual fake ID? Or is it just Ted fraudulently using Marco's ID? Yes, this Does Does the fake ID actually show a picture of Ted? Marco? This, no to rest Someone else?

Did Marco die? Did Selene? Did Ted? Nobody died. What is this, a Lateral Thinking Puzzle?

Trebor

Has any of them had surfer to alter their appearance? No. Kelly Slater is not implicated in this crime Do Ted and Selene ever meet face to face? yes, relevantly Does Ted alter his appearance? voice? when dealing with Selene? no to both

I suspect that we would’ve had more FA notices or “yope” answers of this were the case, but does anyone involved in this puzzle have multiple personality disorder? no

Is there something unusual about M’s ID picture? no

***** RECAT / SPOILER (upon reflection) *****

Marco is Selene's older brother. Marco's wallet, including his ID, was lost, then Selene's was lost at a later date in a different location. Ted, a man from a distant city within the same country, who is most likely underage, has been using Marco's identity. He looks enough like Marco that this works. However, he did not find this ID card in Marco's lost wallet. Selene and Ted relevantly meet/see each other at something that could be a sporting event - Ted's identity thieving is revealed when they are together. This involves Ted making a claim that he has found Selene's lost wallet. He voluntarily shows Marco's ID to Selene. Ted's wrongdoing is thus revealed, but he decides to voluntarily give up using the fake ID.

What's left to discover? How Ted got hold of Marco's ID if he wasn't the original thief. And there's nothing tricky there - it found its way from the original thief to Ted's hands. Let's call this one spoiled.

Congratulations.... everyone, I suppose, on the solution - and thank you for playing. I've just remembered why I prefer posting puzzles in which the answer is 'He was a dwarf!'

[trebor]

I suppose it’s not that unbelievable that my phone would autocorrect surgery to surfer, but still. Stupid phone.

[hominid]

Huh, I was thinking "Surfer" was the name of some app that altered pictures of people's faces.

I'm still a little unclear on what Selene's wallet has to do with anything. Did she publicly announce that her wallet was missing, which led Ted to recognize the last name and tell her about Marco's ID?

[WiZ]

She dropped it at the event the two were at - Ted picked it up, saw the ID, used the information to find Selene who was nearby, and made the surname connection.