[Balin] But then the kid woke up

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[Balin] But then the kid woke up

Postby Balin » Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:15 pm

Nicole is kidnapped and Valerie is killed. The culprits are caught when the police do not find Martin's fingerprints. How?
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Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

Postby Doriana » Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:17 pm

Getting the basics out of the way...
Nicole = H/A/F? H/C/F?
Valerie = H/A/F? H/C/F?
Martin = H/A/M? H/C/M?
The culprits: Two people? If so, one for kidnapping and one for killing? Or did they commit both crimes together? More than two people? H/A/F? M? Mixed? Is Martin one of the culprits?
Do Nicole and Valerie know each other? Nicole and Martin? Martin and Valerie?
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Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

Postby Balin » Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:29 pm

Getting the basics out of the way...
Nicole = H/A/F? This H/C/F?
Valerie = H/A/F? This H/C/F?
Martin = H/A/M? This H/C/M?
The culprits: Two people? Yes If so, one for kidnapping and one for killing? Or did they commit both crimes together? Both conspired in both crimes, but one was the primary perpetrator More than two people? H/A/F? M? Mixed? Both HA, one M, one F Is Martin one of the culprits? Yes
Do Nicole and Valerie know each other? Nicole and Martin? Martin and Valerie? All three know each other
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Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

Postby GalFisk » Sun Feb 17, 2019 7:04 pm

Did they not find Martin's fingerprints on: a weapon? A crime scene? On Martin's own fingers? On file? Falsifying fingerprints relevant? Copying? Removing from object/surface? Removing from own fingers? Gloves relevant? Amputation?
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Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

Postby Balin » Sun Feb 17, 2019 8:09 pm

Did they not find Martin's fingerprints on: a weapon? A crime scene? On Martin's own fingers? On file? None of these
Falsifying fingerprints relevant? Copying? Removing from object/surface? This Removing from own fingers? Gloves relevant? Amputation?
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Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

Postby GalFisk » Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:57 am

Did they find: nothing? Smeared/unreadable fingerprints? DNA? Traces of the removal process? Such as abrasion marks? Chemical remnants? Did Martin remove his fingerprints? Were the fingerprints of others also removed? Is another case where fingerprint removal happened relevant?
WAG: had Martin been connected to another crime where fingerprints had been removed, and they saw that the same tools, chemicals or methods had been used again? If so, could they trace those tools, chemicals or methods to Martin, or at least more strongly suspect him than others?
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Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

Postby Balin » Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:44 am

Did they find: nothing? In regards to Martin's prints, correct - they found none of his prints Smeared/unreadable fingerprints? DNA? Traces of the removal process? Such as abrasion marks? Chemical remnants?
Did Martin remove his fingerprints? From the object, yes. From his fingers, no Were the fingerprints of others also removed? No Is another case where fingerprint removal happened relevant? No
WAG: had Martin been connected to another crime where fingerprints had been removed, and they saw that the same tools, chemicals or methods had been used again? If so, could they trace those tools, chemicals or methods to Martin, or at least more strongly suspect him than others? I like this idea, but No
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Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

Postby LemonCurry » Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:57 am

Did they relevantly find Martin's fingerprints on another object?
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Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

Postby Balin » Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:52 pm

Did they relevantly find Martin's fingerprints on another object? No
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Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

Postby GalFisk » Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:54 pm

Was the lack of fingerprints suspicious? Would his fingerprints normally be where they searched for them if he had not deliberately wiped them off?
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Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

Postby LemonCurry » Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:38 am

Did he police know Martin had touched the object?
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Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

Postby Balin » Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:52 pm

Was the lack of fingerprints suspicious? Yes Would his fingerprints normally be where they searched for them if he had not deliberately wiped them off? Yes, see below

Did he police know Martin had touched the object? Yes
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Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

Postby hoodie » Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:56 pm

Is the object something that should always normally have fingerprints on it, such as a doorknob?
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Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

Postby Earnest » Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:51 pm

Is the object a weapon? Would his fingerprints have exonerated him? Like he said he was playing the piano but police did not find his fingerprints on the keys?
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Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

Postby Balin » Sat Feb 23, 2019 1:56 pm

Is the object something that should always normally have fingerprints on it, such as a doorknob? No

Is the object a weapon? No Would his fingerprints have exonerated him? Not directly Like he said he was playing the piano but police did not find his fingerprints on the keys? No, but you have a bit of the idea
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Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

Postby GalFisk » Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:16 pm

If the fingerprints had not been wiped off, would his be on there? Nicole's? Valerie's? Someone else's? Were they wiped from metal? Plastic? Wood? Glass? Stone? Fabric? A keypad? A handle? A tool? Multiple objects? A room?
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Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

Postby Balin » Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:55 pm

If the fingerprints had not been wiped off, would his be on there? Nicole's? Valerie's? Someone else's? His and Valerie's, although Valerie's were still found
Were they wiped from metal? Plastic? Wood? Glass? Stone? Fabric? None of these materials A keypad? A handle? Yes, among other parts of the object A tool? Multiple objects? A room? No to rest
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Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

Postby GalFisk » Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:35 pm

Rubber? Leather? Ceramics? Plant material? Teeth? Bone? Horn? Is the handle for lifting? Holding? Swinging? Aiming? Steering? Keeping oneself steady? Opening? Closing? Locking?
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Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

Postby Balin » Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:28 pm

Rubber? Leather? This Ceramics? Plant material? Teeth? Bone? Horn?
Is the handle for lifting? Holding? These two Swinging? Aiming? Steering? Keeping oneself steady? Opening? Closing? Locking?
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Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

Postby GalFisk » Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:29 am

Is it a bag? Suitcase? Case for a heavy object? Such as typewriter? Sewing machine?
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Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

Postby Balin » Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:10 pm

Is it a bag? Suitcase? Yes, specifically a large briefcase Case for a heavy object? Such as typewriter? Sewing machine?
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Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

Postby trebor » Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:10 pm

Was Valerie working with Martin or the other culprit to commit a crime? Was she involved in the kidnapping of Nicole? Is her profession relevant? Is Martin’s profession (other than kidnapper/murderer) relevant? If Nicole had not been kidnapped would Valerie have been killed? Is anybody involved a spy?
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Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

Postby Balin » Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:09 pm

Was Valerie working with Martin or the other culprit to commit a crime? Was she involved in the kidnapping of Nicole? No to both
Is her profession relevant? Is Martin’s profession (other than kidnapper/murderer) relevant? No to both
If Nicole had not been kidnapped would Valerie have been killed? No
Is anybody involved a spy? No
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Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

Postby Balin » Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:01 am

RECAP:

Nicole is kidnapped and Valerie is killed. The culprits are caught when the police do not find Martin's fingerprints. How?

-There are two culprits. One of them is Martin; the other is a woman.
-Valerie was not involved in the crimes (other than as a victim).
-Martin's fingerprints should have been found on a briefcase, but were not. This tipped off the police.
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Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

Postby trebor » Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:04 am

Is it relevant what was in the briefcase?
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Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

Postby Balin » Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:13 pm

Is it relevant what was in the briefcase? A bit, Yes
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Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

Postby GalFisk » Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:48 pm

Did it have: documents? Clothing? Office equipment? Kindnapping equipment? Murder equipment? Nothing? Traces of something?
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Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

Postby Balin » Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:22 pm

Did it have: documents? Clothing? Office equipment? Kindnapping equipment? Murder equipment? Nothing? Traces of something? None of these
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Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

Postby GalFisk » Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:21 pm

Drugs? Money? Electronics? Something used for work? Crime? Travel? Fun?
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Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

Postby Balin » Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:33 pm

Drugs? Money? This Electronics? Something used for work? Crime? Travel? Fun?
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Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

Postby GalFisk » Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:38 pm

Money: ransom? Drug money? Other crime money? Regular spending money? Money for an especially big purchase?
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Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

Postby Balin » Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:57 pm

Money: ransom? This Drug money? Other crime money? Regular spending money? Money for an especially big purchase?
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Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

Postby GalFisk » Fri Mar 22, 2019 4:50 pm

Did they expect the case to have fingerprints from: kidnappers? Victims? Couriers/middlemen? Police? Does Martin pretend to be a victim? To be someone who shouldn't care about fingerprints?
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Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

Postby trebor » Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:02 am

Is there someone we've yet to discover who is involved? Perhaps the person who paid the ransom?

Did the briefcase change hands between Valerie and Mark? Between a victim paying the ransom and either V or M? Another time?
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Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

Postby Balin » Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:11 pm

Did they expect the case to have fingerprints from: kidnappers? Victims? Yope, DOYD Couriers/middlemen? Also Yope, DOYD - No to rest Police? Does Martin pretend to be a victim? If you mean "does he pretend to have been kidnapped," No To be someone who shouldn't care about fingerprints? No

Is there someone we've yet to discover who is involved? No - there are just the three people involved Perhaps the person who paid the ransom? This person has not been named, nor has one other key role

Did the briefcase change hands between Valerie and Mark? Indirectly Between a victim paying the ransom and either V or M? See previous Another time? Yope
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Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

Postby Balin » Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:13 pm

HINT: Aside from the police, there are only three people involved.
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Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

Postby GalFisk » Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:58 am

I'm confused.
Nicole is kidnapped.
Valerie is not a criminal, but is killed.
There are two criminals, Martin and a woman.
There are only three people involved aside from the cops.
Is Nicole a criminal? Is Nicole and Valerie the same person?
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Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

Postby Balin » Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:46 pm

I'm confused.
Nicole is kidnapped.
Valerie is not a criminal, but is killed.
There are two criminals, Martin and a woman.
There are only three people involved aside from the cops.
These are all correct.

Is Nicole a criminal? Yes! Is Nicole and Valerie the same person? No
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Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

Postby GalFisk » Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:18 pm

Is Nicole in on the kidnapping scheme? Or is she held against her will? Does Martin pay the ransom? Receive the ransom? Relevant how the money for the ransom was procured? Does Nicole pay the ransom? Does Valerie? Is Valerie killed to silence a witness? To serve as a decoy? To make someone think Nicole was killed? Is an insurance scam relevant?
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Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

Postby trebor » Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:51 pm

Aside from the police, there are only three people involved. Does Martin pay the ransom? Does Valerie? Does Nicole?
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Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

Postby Balin » Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:00 pm

Is Nicole in on the kidnapping scheme? Yes Or is she held against her will? Does Martin pay the ransom? He helps; see below Receive the ransom? No Relevant how the money for the ransom was procured? Yes Does Nicole pay the ransom? No Does Valerie? Yes, with Martin's help Is Valerie killed to silence a witness? No To serve as a decoy? NoTo make someone think Nicole was killed? No Is an insurance scam relevant? No (but good guess)

Aside from the police, there are only three people involved. Does Martin pay the ransom? Does Valerie? Does Nicole? Valerie with Martin's help, see above
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Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

Postby GalFisk » Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:15 am

Is Valerie killed in order to get the money? Does she sacrifice herself? Does Martin kill her? Nicole? Does she kill herself? Is it Valerie's money?
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Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

Postby trebor » Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:24 pm

Was it the plan all along that Valerie would wind up dead?
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Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

Postby Balin » Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:18 pm

Is Valerie killed in order to get the money? Yes Does she sacrifice herself? No
Does Martin kill her? Nicole? This Does she kill herself?
Is it Valerie's money? Yes

Was it the plan all along that Valerie would wind up dead? Yes!
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Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

Postby trebor » Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:36 am

Were Martin’s fingerprints not on the briefcase because he cleaned them off of it? Because Nicole did? Because Valerie did? Because of something that happened to the briefcase?

Are the three of them related? Are two of them? If so, are they married? Siblings? Other immediate family? Extended family? Are they friends? Co-workers? Former partners? Was Valerie’s profession relevant? Was Nicole’s? Martin’s? Has Valerie ever held a position of authority over either M or N?
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Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

Postby Balin » Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:31 pm

Were Martin’s fingerprints not on the briefcase because he cleaned them off of it? This Because Nicole did? Because Valerie did? Because of something that happened to the briefcase?

Are the three of them related? Are two of them? If so, are they married? Siblings? Other immediate family? Extended family? Are they friends? Co-workers? Former partners? Their exact relationships aren't important, but let's say Nicole and Valerie are sisters, and Martin and Valerie are married.
Was Valerie’s profession relevant? Was Nicole’s? Martin’s? No to all
Has Valerie ever held a position of authority over either M or N? No
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Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

Postby GalFisk » Sat Apr 06, 2019 6:50 pm

Is Valerie killed before the ransom is paid? After? During? Is the murder made out to look like something specific? If so: a robbery? A suicide? A disappearance?
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Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

Postby Balin » Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:12 pm

Is Valerie killed before the ransom is paid? After? During? This
Is the murder made out to look like something specific? This If so: a robbery? This, but a deliberate murder/theft A suicide? A disappearance?
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Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

Postby trebor » Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:42 am

So Martin and Nicole faked a kidnapping and got Valerie to pay the ransom? When she paid the ransom, is that when Martin’s fingerprints got on the briefcase? Is that the time that the police saw Martin touch the briefcase? Is it relevant how the police came into possession of the briefcase to see that M’s prints weren’t on it?
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Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

Postby GalFisk » Sun Apr 07, 2019 4:10 am

Was Martin with Valerie when she was killed? Did Nicole relevantly touch the briefcase? Did Martin tell the police that he was helping Valerie with paying the ransom?
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Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

Postby Balin » Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:44 pm

So Martin and Nicole faked a kidnapping and got Valerie to pay the ransom? Yes When she paid the ransom, is that when Martin’s fingerprints got on the briefcase? During the entire process of paying the ransom, Yes Is that the time that the police saw Martin touch the briefcase? They didn't Is it relevant how the police came into possession of the briefcase to see that M’s prints weren’t on it? It may help

Was Martin with Valerie when she was killed? No Did Nicole relevantly touch the briefcase? Yes, but with gloves on Did Martin tell the police that he was helping Valerie with paying the ransom? Yes

I think you have enough of the pieces to put together now.
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Re: [Balin] But then the kid woke up

Postby Balin » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:45 pm

Actually, that's probably enough where I can call it.

****SPOILER****

Nicole and Martin colluded to rob and kill his wife Valerie. They faked Nicole's kidnapping and sent a ransom note to Valerie, demanding a large sum of money brought in cash in a suitcase. Martin helped Valerie pack the money, and wiped his prints off the case as he loaded the suitcase into her car.
When Valerie went to the ransom drop, Nicole shot her, emptied the money out of the suitcase, and left. The police found the suitcase at the scene and found only Valerie's fingerprints on it. But Martin made the mistake of telling the police he'd helped Valerie load the money, meaning his prints should have been on it. This placed Martin under suspicion and the plot was uncovered.
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