[Balin] RTFM

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[Balin] RTFM

Postby Balin » Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:39 am

The Zango corporation sues the Yodie corporation, having clear evidence of Yodie's violations. An investigator visits the companies' facilities, and shortly afterwards, Zango settles the case without a trial. Why?
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Re: [Balin] RTFM

Postby WiZ » Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:44 am

When Zango settles out of court, do they still believe they have a strong case and can avoid litigation? Do they think they would fail if the case went to court? If so, justifiably? Do they realise that Yodie did not, in fact, commit this or any other violation and drop the case?

Is Zango pleased with the results of the settlement? Is Yodie? Would either party consider the outcome more favourable than what they predicted before the investigation? If so, Z? Y?

Does the investigator discover something interesting at Zango's facility? Yodie's?

Is the nature of the infringement relevant? Is it to do with business? Does it involve espionage, sabotage, fraud, or copyright/IP violations?
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Re: [Balin] RTFM

Postby Earnest » Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:06 am

An investigator visits the companies' facilities --> Z faciliities? Yodie's facilities? Did Z sue Y soon after having the evidences? Years after? Months after? Relevant how Z was able to have such evidences?
Facilities = related to the company? Was there something illegal? Facilities such as buildings? Technologies? Tickets? A service offered to the employees? Are Z or Y products involved in facilities?

Violations = privacy violations? Inappropriate use? Copyrights? Violations of some standard? Exclusivity relevant? Violations of some rules? Of some agreement? Private agreement between the companies? Was a third company involved? Two people? More than two?

Did Z use Y's products? Viceversa? Were the two companies competitors? Partners?

Did the two companies operate in the same field? Relevant the field of the two companies? Food? Entertainment? Finance? Technology? Appliances? Books? Health care? Others?

Was Z forced to settle the case? Induced to settle the case? Did Z voluntarily settle the case? If so because it would have ottained something better by settling the case? Because Y repaired its violations? Because Z was discoverd to have major violations? Because a trial was not convenient for Z?
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Re: [Balin] RTFM

Postby Balin » Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:25 pm

When Zango settles out of court, do they still believe they have a strong case and can avoid litigation? No Do they think they would fail if the case went to court? Yes If so, justifiably? Yes Do they realise that Yodie did not, in fact, commit this or any other violation and drop the case? Yes

Is Zango pleased with the results of the settlement? Presumably Is Yodie? Yes Would either party consider the outcome more favourable than what they predicted before the investigation? Yes If so, Z? Y? Yodie

Does the investigator discover something interesting at Zango's facility? Yodie's? This

Is the nature of the infringement relevant? Yes Is it to do with business? Yes Does it involve espionage, sabotage, fraud, or copyright/IP violations? Copyright violations is close enough. Z sued Y for violation of trade secrets

An investigator visits the companies' facilities --> Z faciliities? Yodie's facilities? This, relevantly Did Z sue Y soon after having the evidences? They filed suit before the investigation Years after? Months after? Relevant how Z was able to have such evidences?
Facilities = related to the company? Yes (Y's) Was there something illegal? No Facilities such as buildings? Yes Technologies? Tickets? A service offered to the employees? Are Z or Y products involved in facilities? Yes

Violations = privacy violations? Inappropriate use? Copyrights? Violations of some standard? Exclusivity relevant? Violations of some rules? Of some agreement? Private agreement between the companies? Again, trade secrets violation Was a third company involved? Yes, but not in the suit Two people? More than two?

Did Z use Y's products? Viceversa? Neither Were the two companies competitors? This Partners?

Did the two companies operate in the same field? Yes Relevant the field of the two companies? Not directly. Their direct field can be described as manufacturing Food? Entertainment? Finance? Technology? Appliances? Books? Health care? Others?

Was Z forced to settle the case? Induced to settle the case? Did Z voluntarily settle the case? This If so because it would have ottained something better by settling the case? Because Y repaired its violations? Because Z was discoverd to have major violations? Because a trial was not convenient for Z? This - as said above, Z realized they would not win the case
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Re: [Balin] RTFM

Postby Earnest » Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:28 am

Did Y truly acquired trade secrets ? If so, relevant how they were able to acquire trade secrets? Thanks to facilities? Thanks to technology? Thanks to something made by Z? (E.g. hackerage systems...) relevant which evidences were in possession of Z? Documents? Videos? Something belonging to Y? Something that relates Y to Z? Internet? A building? A product? Info from costumers? From Y's employees? Fake witnesses? Evidences connectin an employee of Z to an employee of Y? Recordings?

Relevant which secrets? Launch of new products? Total revenues? Customers'information? Info about employees? Others?

Buildings = storages of products? Under constructions? Did the buildings belong to Y? Were there Z's products in inside? Did Z have relevantly similar facilities? Is something illegal going on? Did Z sold products to Y? Did Y sold products to Z? Security relevant? Privacy? Standards'violation? Surveillance cameras relevant? Did Z made use of private investigator? Or maybe installed cameras to check Y's acrivities?

Z realized that it would not have won the case because: it made a more severe infringement to Y? A trial would have damaged more Z than Y? Y had much more means to win the case? Had a counterproof? Z made more severe infringements in acquiring the relevant evidences?
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Re: [Balin] RTFM

Postby invisiblemimsy » Sun Sep 15, 2019 12:40 pm

Does the puzzle title have anything to do with it? Is there a manual, or anything else readable, involved? Are the names Yodie and Zango, or the letters Y and Z, relevant?
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Re: [Balin] RTFM

Postby Balin » Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:43 am

Did Y truly acquired trade secrets? Yes If so, relevant how they were able to acquire trade secrets? Yes Thanks to facilities? Yes Thanks to technology? Thanks to something made by Z? (E.g. hackerage systems...) relevant which evidences were in possession of Z? Yes Documents? Videos? Something belonging to Y? Something that relates Y to Z? Internet? A building? A product? This Info from costumers? From Y's employees? Fake witnesses? Evidences connectin an employee of Z to an employee of Y? Recordings?

Relevant which secrets? Yes Launch of new products? Total revenues? Customers'information? Info about employees? Others? Something other than your suggestions here

Buildings = storages of products? No Under constructions? No Did the buildings belong to Y? At one point, Yes Were there Z's products in inside? No Did Z have relevantly similar facilities? Not just similar... Is something illegal going on? No Did Z sold products to Y? Did Y sold products to Z? Not products, no Security relevant? Privacy? Standards'violation? Surveillance cameras relevant? No to these Did Z made use of private investigator? Not relevantly Or maybe installed cameras to check Y's acrivities? No

Z realized that it would not have won the case because: it made a more severe infringement to Y? A trial would have damaged more Z than Y? Y had much more means to win the case? Had a counterproof? This - basically, Z's case no longer held up Z made more severe infringements in acquiring the relevant evidences?

Does the puzzle title have anything to do with it? Yes, for once Is there a manual, or anything else readable, involved? Yes (not exactly a manual, but close to it) Are the names Yodie and Zango, or the letters Y and Z, relevant? No
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Re: [Balin] RTFM

Postby Earnest » Tue Sep 24, 2019 3:04 pm

Yes (not exactly a manual, but close to it) --> something to fill? A document? Instructions? Newsletters? Mails? Something related to Z's products?

Did Z acquire secrets as well?
Product = food related? Cosntructions related? Is IKEA relevant?
So Z acquired Y's products right? Are rendered products relevant?

WAG -> Z made bot clear enough instructions so that Y's employeed were forced to phone Z. Z asked them what they want the clarification for (e.g. what are they building up) hence discovering the secrets of Y
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Re: [Balin] RTFM

Postby Balin » Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:42 am

something to fill? A document? Instructions? This Newsletters? Mails? Something related to Z's products? Yes

Did Z acquire secrets as well? Yes
Product = food related? Cosntructions related? Neither but irrel Is IKEA relevant? No
So Z acquired Y's products right? Yes, and the means and ways to make those products Are rendered products relevant? No

WAG -> Z made bot clear enough instructions so that Y's employeed were forced to phone Z. Z asked them what they want the clarification for (e.g. what are they building up) hence discovering the secrets of Y No
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Re: [Balin] RTFM

Postby biograd » Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:30 am

Did whatever the investigator discovered at Y's facilities show that Y had independently discovered whatever idea Z thought Y had stolen from them? For instance, the investigators found a working prototype in one of Y's buildings of something that Z later developed, and that obviously had been built long before that date?
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Re: [Balin] RTFM

Postby Earnest » Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:09 am

So it's irrelevant which Z's products were involved in Y's facilities right?
If Z and Y are competitors, relevant why Y did not use its own products as part of facilities? In order to always buy new updates/models of the product and hence copying/make modifications on the products of Z? Do Z give them instructions of previous models? Did Z have spies inside Y's firm? Use instructions to mislead Y?

To be sure: are the relevant instructions on paper? Do Z give the complete instructions to Y? Can we assume that they are in english? And tha Y must follow the instructions in order to fully exploit Z's product? Does the product need to be physically build up according to instructions? Or maybe the instructions are used in a second phase? (E.g. software installation) Are the instructions clear? Do they suggest the better (less time wasting and more efficient) way to deal with Z's product?

Can we assume that Y ordered several Z's products? If so, that they used to order them on a regular base? And that there were people of Y's firm able to deal (follow instructions and build up) with Z's products? Are there relevant brands/symbols revealing a cooperation with another firm?
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Re: [Balin] RTFM

Postby Balin » Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:38 am

Did whatever the investigator discovered at Y's facilities show that Y had independently discovered whatever idea Z thought Y had stolen from them? No For instance, the investigators found a working prototype in one of Y's buildings of something that Z later developed, and that obviously had been built long before that date? No

So it's irrelevant which Z's products were involved in Y's facilities right? Yes
If Z and Y are competitors, relevant why Y did not use its own products as part of facilities? Not sure what you mean In order to always buy new updates/models of the product and hence copying/make modifications on the products of Z? Do Z give them instructions of previous models? Yes Did Z have spies inside Y's firm? No Use instructions to mislead Y? No

To be sure: are the relevant instructions on paper? Yes Do Z give the complete instructions to Y? Yes Can we assume that they are in english? Yes And tha Y must follow the instructions in order to fully exploit Z's product? Yes (not to exploit the product, but to make it) Does the product need to be physically build up according to instructions? Yes Or maybe the instructions are used in a second phase? (E.g. software installation) Are the instructions clear? Yes Do they suggest the better (less time wasting and more efficient) way to deal with Z's product? See above

Can we assume that Y ordered several Z's products? No If so, that they used to order them on a regular base? And that there were people of Y's firm able to deal (follow instructions and build up) with Z's products? Are there relevant brands/symbols revealing a cooperation with another firm?
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Re: [Balin] RTFM

Postby Earnest » Sat Oct 05, 2019 6:15 am

Instructions of previous models with respect to the one ordered by Y? Did Z suspect that Y ordered updated models of the product in order to study/analyze it? Did Z send instructions along with (all the) the pieces of the product? Are specific units of measurament relevant? Is what is written in instructions/how the instructions are written relevant? Did Y provided instructions to Z as well? Products? If so, were Z's instructions similar to Y's ones? Did Z sued Y because their instructions and the ones of Z were identical?

Had Y literally followed the instructions provided by Z would it have been able to make the product? If so, once made it, was it necessary someone to properly exploit it?
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Re: [Balin] RTFM

Postby Balin » Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:08 pm

Instructions of previous models with respect to the one ordered by Y? Not "ordered" Did Z suspect that Y ordered updated models of the product in order to study/analyze it? No Did Z send instructions along with (all the) the pieces of the product? No Are specific units of measurament relevant? No Is what is written in instructions/how the instructions are written relevant? Only that it's the instructions to make the product Did Y provided instructions to Z as well? Yes Products? No If so, were Z's instructions similar to Y's ones? b]There's only one set of instructions[/b] Did Z sued Y because their instructions and the ones of Z were identical? No

Had Y literally followed the instructions provided by Z would it have been able to make the product? Yes If so, once made it, was it necessary someone to properly exploit it? Irrel
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Re: [Balin] RTFM

Postby Earnest » Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:51 pm

Only one set of instructions --> the one that Z give to Y in a first instance?

Did Z just send instructions to Y? If so, id Z send instructions just to Y? To other customers? Did Z send also something else to other customers? Relevant? Did Y send products to Z? Instructions? Did Y already had Z's product? Alreade made? Does Z send instructions regularly to Y? Did Y send them back? Changed them somehow? Are pictures of products relevant?

Would it be possible to Y to win the trial without investigators visiting its facilities? If not, something relevant happened while investigators were in facilities? If so, did investigators inspect the instructions? Knew that they belong to Z? That they were instructions of Z's products?

Did Z voluntarily send the instructions to Y as a sort of proof of his accusations against Y? But Y was able to prove that they had been send by Z?
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Re: [Balin] RTFM

Postby Balin » Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:36 pm

Only one set of instructions --> the one that Z give to Y in a first instance? Yes, but I think you're missing part of the timeline

Did Z just send instructions to Y? No If so, id Z send instructions just to Y? If the word weren't "send," Yes To other customers? No Did Z send also something else to other customers? Nothing relevant Relevant? Did Y send products to Z? No Instructions? At one point, Yes! (Although with the same caveat about the word "send.") Did Y already had Z's product? Yope Alreade made? No Does Z send instructions regularly to Y? No Did Y send them back? No Changed them somehow? No Are pictures of products relevant? No

Would it be possible to Y to win the trial without investigators visiting its facilities? Probably not If not, something relevant happened while investigators were in facilities? Yes If so, did investigators inspect the instructions? Yes Knew that they belong to Z? No! That they were instructions of Z's products? Yes

Did Z voluntarily send the instructions to Y as a sort of proof of his accusations against Y? No But Y was able to prove that they had been send by Z? Yope
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Re: [Balin] RTFM

Postby Earnest » Sun Oct 13, 2019 6:28 am

Send not correct --> is it relevant the way in which Y came into possession of Z's instructions? In a legal way? Falling in a trap made by Z? With the consensus of Z? Making an agreement with Z? Borrowing them by Z? Finding them on the internet?
Did Y exploit Z's instructions directly to make the product? someone forgot the instructions (or maybe forgot on purpose) of Z's product in Y's facilities?
If so, someone belonging to Z? Was the possession of the instructions a proof of trade secrets violation? Or maybe this was possible just because investigators did not recognise that they belonged to Z? Had they known, could they have accused Z immediately? Could they have accused Y immediately? Did inspectors know that the manual of instructions was actually a manual of instructions? Or they exchanged it for info on Z's product?

Is the fact that inspectors did not know that the instructions belonged to Z that convinced Z not to accuse Y? To be sure: can we consider the inspectors neutral (e.g. not corrupted by Z or similar)?

Did investigators know that the product in Y's facilities was produced by Z? Had the instructions for Z product been written by Z? Been made by Z for that specific product that was in Y's facilities? Did inspectors read the instructions? Did they read instructions for a similar products before? Was the product in Y's facilities in commerce? If so, with insteuctions? The same ones found in Y's facilities? Did the inspectors know it?

Had investigators visited Z later on (after having visited Y's facilities)? Had the investigators previously (before visiting Z's facilities) visited Z? If so, did they recognize Z's product? Were they able to make a comparison among Z's products and the one in Y's firm? Did they read the instructions in Y's firm? Did they understand them? Found out something wrong?
Was it the first time that investigators make the investigation in Y's firm? At the time that investigators visit Y's facilities, was the product of Z functioning without any problem? Was it similar to other products of Z? Did inspectors know? Had they inspected other firms'facilities with the same relation that Y had with Z, would they have seen the same Z's product?
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Re: [Balin] RTFM

Postby Balin » Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:47 pm

Send not correct --> someone forgot the instructions (or maybe forgot on purpose) of Z's product in Y's facilities? Yes, and I think I can iron out the difficulties from here.

****SPOILER****

Zango had bought out an old company who were exclusive makers of a certain product, but their attempts at making the product didn't work very well. Yodie bought the old company's facilities from Zango, rehired the old staff, and began making the product better. Zango sued for trade secrets violation.
During investigation, the investigator found out that in the facilities, on a bulletin board covered in dust, were the instructions on how to make the product. So when Zango sold the facilities to Yodie, they sold the trade secrets as well because they left them on the wall.
The case was eventually settled.

Good job!
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Re: [Balin] RTFM (*SECRET'S OUT*)

Postby Earnest » Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:01 am

Great one. Is it based on a true story?
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