[JenBurdoo] Inscrutable Reds

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[JenBurdoo] Inscrutable Reds

Postby JenBurdoo » Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:49 pm

During the year preceding Hitler's invasion of Russia, the Soviets regularly imported small amounts of iron scrap from Germany. They had plenty of scrap of their own, so why did they do this?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Inscrutable Reds

Postby GalFisk » Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:09 pm

Did they analyze the scrap? Spying relevant? Did they use the scrap? Relevant how the scrap was transported to them? Were they analyzing the transport routes or methods? Or vehicles? Relevant how much scrap they bought each time? Scrap prices relevant? Payment method?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Inscrutable Reds

Postby WiZ » Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:42 pm

Is there a relevant (qualitative) difference in the scrap they imported and the scrap they already had? Were they interested in depleting the resources Germany had? Is there some ruse of accounting at work, or are the Russians looking to create some sort of pretext or alibi?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Inscrutable Reds

Postby JenBurdoo » Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:14 pm

Did they analyze the scrap? Spying relevant? Yes. Did they use the scrap? Relevant how the scrap was transported to them? Were they analyzing the transport routes or methods? Or vehicles? Relevant how much scrap they bought each time? Scrap prices relevant? Payment method? No to all else.

Is there a relevant (qualitative) difference in the scrap they imported and the scrap they already had? Were they interested in depleting the resources Germany had? Is there some ruse of accounting at work, or are the Russians looking to create some sort of pretext This. or alibi? No to all else.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Inscrutable Reds

Postby GalFisk » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:50 pm

Spying on: government? Military leadership? Troops? Navy? Air force? Relevant what was in the scrap? What industry creted it? Transferring secret messages relevant? Radio? Enigma?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Inscrutable Reds

Postby JenBurdoo » Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:01 pm

Spying on: government? Military leadership? Troops? Navy? Air force? The military in general. Relevant what was in the scrap? No. What industry created it? No. Transferring secret messages relevant? Radio? Enigma? No to all.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Inscrutable Reds

Postby GalFisk » Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:54 pm

Was buying scrap a part of the spying? Was a spy relevantly in Germany? Was the scrap buying done in order to have a reason for a person to be in the right place? Recruiting spies?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Inscrutable Reds

Postby JenBurdoo » Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:16 am

Was buying scrap a part of the spying? Yes. Was a spy relevantly in Germany? Was the scrap buying done in order to have a reason for a person to be in the right place? Recruiting spies? No to the rest, FA.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Inscrutable Reds

Postby GalFisk » Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:28 pm

Were they spying by looking for changes in the scrap buying procedure? Was the scrap transported to the Soviet Union? Relevant? Were they sending messages through the purchase orders?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Inscrutable Reds

Postby JenBurdoo » Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:38 pm

Were they spying by looking for changes in the scrap buying procedure? No. Was the scrap transported to the Soviet Union? Yes. Relevant? Yes. Were they sending messages through the purchase orders? No.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Inscrutable Reds

Postby GalFisk » Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:33 am

Relevant what they were trying to find out by doing this? Relevant where the scrap came from? Where it was transported to? Were they trying to find out something about war production? Did their scheme work? Relevant?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Inscrutable Reds

Postby JenBurdoo » Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:02 pm

Relevant what they were trying to find out by doing this? Yes. Relevant where the scrap came from? Assume it was military, which is relevant. Where it was transported to? No. Were they trying to find out something about war production? No. Did their scheme work? Yes[. Relevant? Yes.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Inscrutable Reds

Postby GalFisk » Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:22 am

Relevant how the scrap was produced? If so: during production of materiel? From wear and tear? Obsolete equipment? Equipment destroyed by war? By training? Did they try to find out where the metals were mined? Refined? Was the scrap from: ships? Subs? Tanks? Planes? Bombs? Shells? Cannons? Small arms? Machine guns? Ammunition? Trucks? Cars? Motorcycles? Did they want to find out how something was constructed? How it worked? What it cost? How much there was?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Inscrutable Reds

Postby peter365 » Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:33 am

Is the mode of transport used to bring the scrap to Russia relevant? Were they trying to get a sense of german mobilisation capabilities? Did they actually use the scrap for anything other than to facilitate their spying activities?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Inscrutable Reds

Postby JenBurdoo » Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:38 pm

Relevant how the scrap was produced? No. If so: during production of materiel? From wear and tear? Obsolete equipment? Equipment destroyed by war? By training? Did they try to find out where the metals were mined? No. Refined? No. Was the scrap from: ships? Subs? Tanks? Planes? Bombs? Shells? Cannons? Small arms? Machine guns? Ammunition? Trucks? Cars? Motorcycles? Assume vehicles. Did they want to find out how something was constructed? How it worked? What it cost? How much there was? No to all, though "how it worked" circles around relevance.

Is the mode of transport used to bring the scrap to Russia relevant? No. Were they trying to get a sense of german mobilisation capabilities? No, but you have the right idea. Did they actually use the scrap for anything other than to facilitate their spying activities? Assume no.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Inscrutable Reds

Postby Alhucema » Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:26 am

Was the scrap identifiable as German?

Did they intend to use the scrap for some kind of ruse? E.g. to pretend that Germans attacked to have a pretext to strike back?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Inscrutable Reds

Postby GalFisk » Sat Jan 25, 2020 1:52 pm

Were they trying to ascertain the effects of something? Such as an embargo? An invasion? A battle? War in general? What the military was doing? Where it was? Was the scrap from military vehicles? German-made vehicles?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Inscrutable Reds

Postby JenBurdoo » Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:23 pm

Was the scrap identifiable as German? Irr, assume yes.

Did they intend to use the scrap for some kind of ruse? E.g. to pretend that Germans attacked to have a pretext to strike back? No to both.

Were they trying to ascertain the effects of something? Yes. Such as an embargo? An invasion? A battle? War in general? What the military was doing? Where it was? None of these. Was the scrap from military vehicles? German-made vehicles? Assume yes on both counts.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Inscrutable Reds

Postby Alhucema » Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:58 pm

Were they analyzing the scrap?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Inscrutable Reds

Postby GalFisk » Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:41 am

The effects of something: the Germans did? The Russians did? The Allied forces at the time did? Effects of weather? Climate? Politics relevant?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Inscrutable Reds

Postby peter365 » Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:48 pm

Were the Russians importing larger amounts of the same metals? Were they trying to ascertain whether the germans were using superior metals in their war manufacturing that was available to the Russians?

Did the Russians supply the metal to Germany in the first place , and then import small pieces back?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Inscrutable Reds

Postby JenBurdoo » Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:14 pm

Were they analyzing the scrap? No.

The effects of something: the Germans did? The Russians did? The Allied forces at the time did? No to all. Effects of weather? This. Climate? And this. Politics relevant? No.

Were the Russians importing larger amounts of the same metals? Were they trying to ascertain whether the Germans were using superior metals in their war manufacturing that was available to the Russians? No to both, though you have the right sort of idea with the latter.

Did the Russians supply the metal to Germany in the first place , and then import small pieces back? No.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Inscrutable Reds

Postby GalFisk » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:11 pm

Weather and climate: cold? Hot? Dry? Wet? Freezing? Windy? Sandy? Unpredictable? Just weather and climate in general? Did they find out how well the germans were dealing with weather-related challenges?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Inscrutable Reds

Postby peter365 » Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:09 am

Were they trying to calculate the weight of german tanks and how they would perform on ice?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Inscrutable Reds

Postby JenBurdoo » Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:37 pm

Weather and climate: cold? This. Hot? Dry? Wet? Freezing? This. Windy? Sandy? Unpredictable? Just weather and climate in general? Did they find out how well the germans were dealing with weather-related challenges? A specific one, yes.

Were they trying to calculate the weight of german tanks and how they would perform on ice? No.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Inscrutable Reds

Postby GalFisk » Fri Jan 31, 2020 7:19 am

Did they want to know how well they would deal with snow? Winter? Russian winter?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Inscrutable Reds

Postby JenBurdoo » Fri Jan 31, 2020 7:49 pm

Did they want to know how well they would deal with snow? Winter? Russian winter? This.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Inscrutable Reds

Postby GalFisk » Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:52 pm

Did they want to find out: how well they hold up in the cold? How well they handle deep snow? How well they start in the cold? How they are protected from cold? How they're lubricated? Exploitable weaknesses? At which temperatures they could regard enemy vehicles as immobilized?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Inscrutable Reds

Postby JenBurdoo » Mon Feb 03, 2020 6:03 pm

Did they want to find out: how well they hold up in the cold? How well they handle deep snow? How well they start in the cold? How they are protected from cold? How they're lubricated? This! Exploitable weaknesses? At which temperatures they could regard enemy vehicles as immobilized?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Inscrutable Reds

Postby GalFisk » Tue Feb 04, 2020 1:19 pm

Did they analyze the lubricants? Freeze them and see how they changed? Try to replicate them? Were there remnants of lubricants on the scrap? did they want to know at what temperatures the vehicles would start experiencing issues? Did they want to copy the German lubricants? Surpass them? Learn from their experiences?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Inscrutable Reds

Postby JenBurdoo » Tue Feb 04, 2020 2:59 pm

Did they analyze the lubricants? Yes. Freeze them and see how they changed? Possibly. Try to replicate them? No. Were there remnants of lubricants on the scrap? Not relevantly. did they want to know at what temperatures the vehicles would start experiencing issues? Yes. Did they want to copy the German lubricants? Surpass them? Learn from their experiences? No to the rest.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Inscrutable Reds

Postby GalFisk » Tue Feb 04, 2020 3:40 pm

Did they get hold of lubricants by buying the scrap? Did they get hold of lubricants a tall? Did they look at wear patterns on the scrap? Did they relevantly buy scrap from different geographical areas? Buy scrap during different temperatures? Did they use different lubricants of their own and try to replicate the wear seen on the scrap?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Inscrutable Reds

Postby JenBurdoo » Tue Feb 04, 2020 5:26 pm

Did they get hold of lubricants by buying the scrap? Yes. Did they get hold of lubricants a tall? Yes. Did they look at wear patterns on the scrap? Did they relevantly buy scrap from different geographical areas? Buy scrap during different temperatures? Did they use different lubricants of their own and try to replicate the wear seen on the scrap? No to all.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Inscrutable Reds

Postby GalFisk » Tue Feb 04, 2020 8:52 pm

Did they cool down the lubricant? Use it on their own machines to see how it worked? Use it on the scrap? Ue it on replica German vehicles? On genuine German vehicles? Did they find a relevant flaw in the lubricant?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Inscrutable Reds

Postby JenBurdoo » Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:54 am

Did they cool down the lubricant? Use it on their own machines to see how it worked? Use it on the scrap? Ue it on replica German vehicles? On genuine German vehicles? Did they find a relevant flaw in the lubricant? Assume yes. All else irrelevant - no need to know how they analyzed the lubricant, just how they obtained it.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Inscrutable Reds

Postby GalFisk » Thu Feb 06, 2020 7:49 am

Did they ask for lubricants? Were they sold lubricants? Were lubricants in/on the scrap? Did they buy scrap and lubricants? Did they get new lubricants? Used? Did they ask that the seller protect the scrap from corrosion, and the simplest protection was lubricant?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Inscrutable Reds

Postby JenBurdoo » Sat Feb 08, 2020 5:34 pm

Did they ask for lubricants? No. Were they sold lubricants? No. Were lubricants in/on the scrap? I think "adjacent" is the best word. Did they buy scrap and lubricants? Effectively. Did they get new lubricants? Used? This. Did they ask that the seller protect the scrap from corrosion, and the simplest protection was lubricant? Not from corrosion, but it was relevantly protected.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Inscrutable Reds

Postby GalFisk » Sat Feb 08, 2020 8:21 pm

Was the lubricant in containers? Rags? Sawdust? Other absorbent? Was the scrap protected from moisture? Cold? Heat? Impact? Chemicals? Thieves?
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Inscrutable Reds

Postby JenBurdoo » Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:39 pm

Was the lubricant in containers? Rags? This. Sawdust? Other absorbent? Was the scrap protected from moisture? Cold? Heat? Impact? Chemicals? Thieves?

Spoiler:

The old rags protecting the German scrap were stained with lubricant. The Soviets analyzed them to learn how well the lubricant met the challenges of the Russian winter.
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Re: [JenBurdoo] Inscrutable Reds (Cleansed)

Postby peter365 » Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:25 am

Very nice Jen, really lateral
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